Maximum Age Pension for Non Residents, How to Calculate It?

alpha31 on 01/10/2022 - 04:53

I live in Italy and I earn an Australian age pension and I'd like to know how it's calculated, if possible. Especially I'd like to know what parameters are used to define the maximun rate pension. I'm a single (widow) with no sons, I live in my own home here in Italy and I get a survivor's Italian pension here; I've got no other assets/incomes afaik (*).

I already asked it to centerlink office but they answered they didn't know, they could only help me sending an envelope with my Australian pension's "Payment details" but unfortunately there're no "detailed" calculations, just:

  • Gross payment amount = about 885 AU$ per fortnight = 860 AU$ (age pension) + 25 AU$ (Pension Supplement);
  • my Italian survivor's pension amount per year and…
  • (*) an "asset" of 2.00 AU$ (!) which I don't know where it comes from ^_^

I've googled a bit and got this document. You can find "aliquote" (= rates) at pag.3 and you can see A$ 23,579.40 in bold in the upper left part of the table. I assume this is the maximum rate I could earn while I earned about 21,238 AU$ (13,971eur) in 2021 so about 2,300 AU$ less the maximum threshold, if this table is right for my purpose.

I've also found this page and the only parameters the calculator is based on are: 1) if I'm single or not; 2) if I own in my own home or not; 3) incomes/assets, but it seems for AU residents only and it warns "Centrelink will assess you on many other factors beyond what is included in this calculator" but due to this calculator my bet is there'd be a way to make this calculation anyhow so I wander if I could get some document(s) from ATO (or other AU authorities) where to see the "real" details for this calculation.

Do you know where to find these kind of documents/sources on the web?

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Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 01/10/2022 - 06:17
    -4

    i don't know

  • poldy on 01/10/2022 - 06:58
    +4

    Why should you get an Australian pension if you don’t live here?

    • Mokr on 01/10/2022 - 08:05

      You do understand it costs the gov more to have people using aus services

      • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 09:21
        +4

        It still doesn’t answer the question about why, if you chose to live abroad should the tax payer subsidise that choice

        And don’t give me the “I’ve paid taxes all my life” guff

        Those taxes paid for all the services you consumed during that time and a safety net for the future. Not a piggy bank for you to cash in for the rest of one’s days

        /End rant

        • Webber000 on 01/10/2022 - 12:13
          +2

          Because as part of the taxes you paid it included an amount towards the pension you would eventually get.
          Do you think that Italy should be paying him a pension if he lived in oz all his life and paid taxes in oz?
          No, it gets pro-rated so its fair for everyone. OP will get a pension from oz based on his contributions in oz and a pension from Italy pro-rata if he paid taxes and qualifies in Italy.

          Based on your logic someone could move to Australia today and be entitled to an Australian pension just because "they chose to live here".

          • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 12:19
            +1

            @Webber000:

            Based on your logic someone could move to Australia today and be entitled to an Australian pension just because "they chose to live here"

            nope by my logic, pension is a safety net and if you choose to leave the country where you are eligible for pension, the tax payers of said country should no longer be required to support you

            Similarly the tax payers of the new country shouldn’t be obliged to support you either

            If you choose to move abroad, perhaps you support yourself?

    • nomoneynoproblems on 01/10/2022 - 13:01
      +1

      Most likely op is an Australian citizen.

  • 2jzzzz on 01/10/2022 - 07:18

    I thought you had to spend a certain amount of time in the country to be eligible?

    • shaybisc on 01/10/2022 - 08:31

      Not long. 10 years in total. At least 5 years with no break.

      • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 09:39
        +2

        So you can come to aus, live/ work here for 10years then claim a pension for the next 20+ years whilst you live overseas? Ffs 🤦‍♂️

        • shaybisc on 01/10/2022 - 10:28
          +2

          Making sure that you fly back to Australia if you have any major medical issues.

          • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 10:44
            +5

            @shaybisc: Of course! How else could you maximally exploit the system

            Step 1: claim Australian pension
            Step 2: move overseas
            Step 3: spend Australian tax payer money overseas so not one cent goes back to Australia in gst or supporting Australian jobs or economy
            Step 4: when needed come back to Australia and use the first world medical facilities via Medicare (aka courtesy of aus tax payer)
            Step 5: go back to step 1

        • Mokr on 01/10/2022 - 16:50

          It would be like 200 dollars a fortnigh

      • lgacb08 on 04/10/2022 - 12:56

        Another catch, you gotta fly back every 6 months otherwise they'll stop it. During covid they waived that condition but I assume it's closed now.
        It's not a big deal if you're still in 60s but once you get to 80, do it twice a year will take a toll on your body and who knows when that clot from the thigh will stuck up your heart valve.

  • BookerDeWitt on 01/10/2022 - 07:20
    +7

    Why is my Australian tax paying for the pension of an Italian resident?

    • boomramada on 01/10/2022 - 11:26
      +2

      Person retired in Australia, its his or her pension and can go live any where they want ? And Its their entitlement.

      • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 11:47

        “Entitlement” sums it up nicely

      • parsimonious one on 01/10/2022 - 12:07
        +2

        Pension is supposed to be a safety net not free money to fund your extended holiday

        • boomramada on 01/10/2022 - 12:49
          +4

          No one said its free money. I been paying tax for past 30 years, I doubt I be end up getting a pension yet I have no issues someone accessing their entitled pension somewhere other than Australia as long as its legally done.

        • Mokr on 01/10/2022 - 16:51

          Nope. You can have a two million dollar home and still get the pension.

          The pension is needed. Cause people can't work forever

  • elgrande on 01/10/2022 - 08:00
    +1

    How often do you need to travel back to keep your pension valid? Asking for a future friend.

  • GoldenDragon888 on 01/10/2022 - 08:10
    -3

    I swear my aunties and uncles agreeing with Skips about all these immigrants screwing the system are beginning to be right. LOL

    Does complaining about immigrants make them truly Aussies?

    • [Deactivated] on 01/10/2022 - 10:24

      You need to connect with Ozzy Slav on here who goes on ………and on ………and on ………… and on for years about this very topic. You should have OS over for lunch with your fam - looks like they should get on like a house on fire :)

  • The tiger on 01/10/2022 - 08:18
    -2

    BookerDeWitt,/GoldenDragon888/Poldy,
    One day someones come from European countries like Italy will foot age pension to yourself, or your brothers/sisters/relatives . She had been staying in Australia long enough for a legitimate period to entitle to her age pension legally under Australian laws , why then now blame/mock her from what she is entitled to? If you desire for those once upon a time an Australian who later moves back to her original country for her retirement not entitle to get her age pension , you have your freedom and right to write to your local representative or even to Canberra . Never be little or insult Australian laws if you are real Aussies.

    • GoldenDragon888 on 01/10/2022 - 09:16

      Never be little or insult Australian laws if you are real Aussies.

      More convinced after this comment that you have no idea about this country. It's a bloody past time complaining about and belittling our country's laws.

  • brendanm on 01/10/2022 - 08:44
    +3

    I'm a single (widow) with no sons

    Do you have any daughters?

    earn

    I earned

    I don't believe you know what the definition of "earn" is.

  • alpha31 on 01/10/2022 - 08:49
    +7

    I had been living and working in Australia for decades, then I retired and now I'm back in Italy and I get my Australian pension.

    • brendanm on 01/10/2022 - 16:41
      -2

      But do you have any daughters?

  • GordonD on 01/10/2022 - 09:08

    OP, is this the page you're looking for?

    https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/payment-schedule-and-ra…

  • [Deactivated] on 01/10/2022 - 10:20
    -1

    tee hee …… totes lazy effort when there are more holes in the OP than there are in Swiss cheese but any excuse for the outrage addicts to get their chimes in!

  • jackofspade on 01/10/2022 - 17:44

    You are getting an Italian pension and Australian pension?

  • alpha31 on 01/10/2022 - 20:22
    +2

    Thanks @bemybubble and @GordonD for the link and sorry if I didn't tell you about my past life, work and tax contribution in Australia in my 1st post.

    The maximum rate is $25,038.20 per single per year by that table upgraded to sept 20th, so my pension is about 3,800$ less the maximum. I'd like to know something more about this calculation but I guess there's a sort of "limit", maybe nobody can access the "real" calculation details therefore I don't know on what bases/parameters/equations that age pension calculator I linked above is based on.
    My bet is the most part of my AU pension amount is calculated on my IT pension because it's my only income, but I guess I can't access further "details", eg. an incomes / pension rates thresholds scheme.

    @jackofspade - Yes, I get my AU age pension due to my past work in factory and then my Italian survivor's pension since 1995 when my husband died.

    @elgrande - Never. I got AU citizenship in 50s and moved back to Italy in the last 70s but never traveled back to AU but only due to my personal troubles here in Italy thought I'd have liked because my sister and her family still lives in AU.

    • bemybubble on 04/10/2022 - 10:30

      Where you living Paisano?

  • lgacb08 on 04/10/2022 - 13:29

    Re-reading your post so it's basically down to whether Centrelink short-changed you or not. I think they didn't. The document you referred to was for pensioner living in Australia so they received a little top up called supplement, as you're living overseas you only received the base rate of $800ish. So out of the $2300 short, you were only short-changed by $1500, which could be the difference in inflation and currency exchange. The $23000is number is probably this year rate after indexing against inflation, your last year number would be less, and depending on how the government did the transfer then exchange rate will vary wildly too.

  • alpha31 on 05/10/2022 - 03:11

    Forget about the superguide's "calculator" I linked on my 1^ post and let's refere to the other 2 documents:
    - the pdf I linked in my 1^ post, where there's written "Aliquote e soglie pensionistiche al di fuori dell'Australia" in the upper-left 1st box of the table at pag.3, it means "Rates and thresholds overseas Australia" so it's my case;
    - the @bemybubble and @GordonD 's link on servicesaustralia portal, which refers to "outside Australia".
    The 2 max thresholds are A$ 23,579.40 VS $25,038.20 for a single while I earned about $21,238 in 2021. Definitely I'd like to know if I'm earning the max rate that is up to me or not, of course within my "rights"/parameters. Eg. Afaik if I had children to support I'd get something more; if I'll go to a retirement house my pension rate will remain the same; if I earned another pension for handicap here in Italy my AU pension'd decrease. I'd like to know these rules/parameters my pension rate is based on.

    I give you a further comparison.
    Here in Italy I know my survivor's pension temporary current year amount from this document issued by INPS national authority year after year and I'm sure I earn the 100% out of the max and I know it's up to me because my other incomes (only my AU age pension) are below 20k euro/year and that's all to know about my IT pension, I mean the rules and the numbers. I'd like to get an equivalent document about my AU pension, maybe doesn't it deal with Centrelink but with ATO authority? Due to the fact I pay my taxes (both on my IT and AU pensions) here in Italy I've got no Tax File Number (TFN) and afaik I can't apply for it so I can't link ATO service to mygov.au account.

    • lgacb08 on 05/10/2022 - 13:04

      Your situation is not simple, there are a lot of questions to be answered: whether you are eligible for full pension or part of it (have you lived in Australia for at least 35 years or 25 years on 2014), your asset, your Italian pension too as the two countries have mutual pension agreement.
      Your best bet is to go to Whirlpool.net.au to ask before this forum has more of younger demographic interested in looking for ssd and free food delivery than a more mature and heavily skewed towards boomers.

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