NSW Alcohol Laws - Can a "Responsible Adult" Be The Sibling of a Minor?

kiitos on 18/09/2022 - 13:37

Scenario: 2 siblings, 18 and 16, will be going out for a rare in-person outing in Sydney with their 2 relatives from overseas, who are 18 and 21. The visitors talked about going to a bar.

Looking at https://www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au/community-and-stakeho….

Minors in licensed venues

Minors are allowed in many licensed venues in NSW. However, there are strict controls in place for some types of venues, particularly:

  • small bars
  • hotels
  • registered clubs.
    This is to prevent minors from getting access to alcohol and to ensure they are adequately supervised by a responsible adult.

Under NSW liquor laws, a responsible adult is defined as an adult who is:

  • a parent or guardian of the minor
  • the minor's spouse or de facto partner
  • standing in as the parent of the minor for the time being.

I was wondering if "standing in as the parent of the minor for the time being" would include her 18 year old sibling, or older (but not by much) relatives?

FWIW, they're both sensible, and the elder sibling is not really a drinker at all. I imagine the easiest thing would be for them to go elsewhere, or the younger to miss out, which would be a shame, but I can't seem to find further info about the "standing in" role.

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • sharkyoz on 18/09/2022 - 14:10
    +4

    Yes, that's fine.

  • AngoraFish on 18/09/2022 - 14:17
    +6

    I suspect the question will be whether they are genuinely "standing in" for the parent, which would be along the lines of "you need to look out for Little Johnny while I'm away". Basically situations where you are not able to act as parent for a period, such as travelling interstate for work or going into hospital overnight, and need to leave the child with a relative. This doesn't seem to be that kind of case.

    Regardless, your main problem here is that the primary offense is actually committed by the venue, not your children, and venues take a hyper-cautious approach to such things as fines can be huge, including loss of their liquor license. My gut feeling is that your children will just be told that they can't be admitted by the venue out of an abundance of caution.

    It's more or less the same situation as where a store will refuse to sell you cigarettes or alcohol if you can't show photo evidence of your age.

    • kiitos on 18/09/2022 - 14:51

      Yes I think you're right, that makes sense.

  • Jugganautx on 18/09/2022 - 14:20
    +1

    Pub or club? big difference.

    • kiitos on 18/09/2022 - 14:53

      They said "bar" which I took to mean closer to a pub t than a club. If it's a club then I'm pretty sure they're 18+ venues so the younger one wouldn't go.

  • mskeggs on 18/09/2022 - 14:56
    +4

    Call the venue and ask. It will come down to their discretion in any case.

  • freefall101 on 18/09/2022 - 15:08
    +3

    I'd ask to relocate to a place that serves food, will have far less issues. Most places are just going to give a hard no if it's a drinking establishment, even though it's technically allowed.

  • JimmyF on 18/09/2022 - 15:25
    +3

    I was wondering if "standing in as the parent of the minor for the time being" would include her 18 year old sibling, or older (but not by much) relatives?

    Standing in as the parent, means someone who is 18+ who will be looking after the minor. So if you trust your 18yo to look after your 16yo, then yes they can take them to these places the same as you could.

  • Switchblade88 on 18/09/2022 - 17:36
    +4

    If you're not going out for 'drinks' but a 'meal' (which is what I'd expect with a 16yo) then the presence of alcohol at a venue is secondary consideration and thus would not be an issue.

    If you're going to a nightclub or similar then the bouncer will likely have some strong opinions since you won't be attending for the food…

  • AdosHouse on 18/09/2022 - 18:12
    +2

    I'm in QLD and been a RMLV for many years, and the answer for me and most other manager I know, is always no. Do we trust an 18yo to be responsible enough to uphold all liquor laws and act as a "responsible" adult, no, every time no.

    • Eeples on 18/09/2022 - 18:40
      +1

      What about a 21yo? (as is the case here).

  • Eeples on 18/09/2022 - 18:28
    +1

    Go to the Rocks and have the 16yo stay (with the group) in the beer garden/food area/alfresco of some of the pubs.

    The 16yo most likely will appreciate the lack of scrutiny of having to enter the bar proper.

    If in doubt, ask the venue where a minor can sit. (Ask this with the 16yo not at the bar and preferably not in the establishment).

    (Don't buy the 16yo an alcoholic drink)

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 18/09/2022 - 19:07
    +4
    Different Venues have different rules, and quite often it is at the discretion of the staff. A Pub or a Club will be fine, as long as the 16yo is not in a restricted area, and not left unattended. I doubt a bar, would have an area.

    On a side note I played in a band back in the 80s/90s, and one venue we played had strippers on a certain night. Our lead vocalist was mature, but 16 to 17 at the time. We played this venue, and our vocalist had to sit out the back, whilst the strippers performed. The back room also happened to be the change-room, and he had the best view in the house, because he saw them changing. LOL. Crazy.

    • AdosHouse on 18/09/2022 - 19:44
      +2

      He probably thought it was the best gig ever.

  • jasongi on 19/09/2022 - 07:50
    +1

    It’s discretionary on the venue, but having worked in liquor I would probably refuse that kind of arrangement. Otherwise every 18 year old school leaver could bring in their 17 year old “brother” they are standing in as a parent.

    However if you ring the venue before hand you might get a pass, especially for a meal with no alcohol. But a group of 18-21 year olds are probably going to want to bar hop and go from bars to clubs etc where any 16 year old tagging along is going to be a liability and I would suggest they organise another activity to do with the 16 year old.

  • kiitos on 20/09/2022 - 21:39
    +1

    Thanks everyone, I appreciate the answers. We'll find some options for the evening that will suit everyone, and contact the venues if needed and also have backup plans if it's not crystal clear.

  • Silly-sausage88 on 26/09/2022 - 13:14

    Sorry I dont have the time to do the research but am like 95% sure I have seen some official document etc that says that this is not allowed.

    Looking doubtful. Just go to a non-licensed venue.

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