Hi all,
Had the old power meter replaced with a new smart meter.
However, they took away the incoming main switch (ie. the breaker that normally switches everything off at the same time).
Is this normal?
Looking to get an extra AC installed, which means they will need to add a new breaker.
The only way to remove the power now is to remove the fuses from the lines.
I have a photo. But my old man is a retired sparky and looked everywhere to see if they moved it. It's definitely gone.
Photo of your switch board i meant.
Not disputing your old meter is being removed or you getting double charged with your hot water usage. I want to know if you have rcd switches you can use to turn off power
They are the older non RCD type. So still have individual breakers (lights, gpo, stove) etc.
But no single switch to isolate the power from all of them in one hit, and no way to isolate the breakers themselves.
Ie. If you want to replace a breaker, you can't.
Photo or it didn't happen
What's the easiest way to upload a photo?
@tunzafun001: You've been on here for donkey's years and you don't know how to upload a photo? Do you need assistance with accessing the help features on this site?
@[Deactivated]: That is correct. A skill I have somehow coped without until now.
Anyway.. Here it is.
Breakers = Lights, powerpoints, HWS (uncovered), Stove, AC.
Then grounded neutrals (i took the cover off).
P.S. nothing behind either, other than the neutrals all joined together.
Main switch used to be bottom left.
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/106531/97913/20220824_…
@tunzafun001: I see what you mean.
I don’t think is ideal, but also dont think is not normal. Unsure if it is compliant to today’s standard
@avoidfullprice: Spoke to Technical Regulator today. Isolation switch is meant to be in for compliance. But they never submitted a compliance certificate for the meter install, so apparently nothing they can do unless I can prove who installed the meter. Has a big "Vector' sticker on it and a serial number (would think that information would cross reference somewhere). The monkeys are officially running the zoo.
The only way to remove the power now is to remove the fuses from the lines.
that doesn't sound right
No it doesn't seem right, but the world these days is getting weirder every day.
My old man is a retired sparky and has never seen this done before.
But was wondering if it's a new idea to stop people doing power related things themselves. But seems to add risk at the same time in my eyes.
I would have thought it would be mandatory to have a breaker to shut off everything.
I would have thought it would be mandatory to have a breaker to shut off everything.
It is. AS/NZS 3000:2018 cl 2.3.3.2:
The supply to every electrical installation shall be controlled on the main switchboard by a main switch or switches that control the whole of the electrical installation.
I'm not overly conversant with the standard but, so there could be some exception in there, but AFAIK it's required.
@Chandler: OTR says this is indeed the case. But they have no record of who installed the meter and no idea who to get out to rectify the job.
Yes…you heard that correctly.
So I need to do some detective work, or pay $700 ish and get it reinstalled myself (apparently SAPN alone charge $400 to pull the fuse).
😲
Maybe contact your energy supplier detailing your concerns.
Otherwise there are energy ombudsmen for each state that may be able to shed more light on your situation.
https://www.aer.gov.au/consumers/useful-contacts#ombudsman-s…
As I have found out recently..Energy supplier in SA's responsibility ends at the wire entering the meter.
So they will direct you to the retailer. The retailer couldn't give two stuffs..and will take months to tell you nothing.
Been dealing with the ombudsman recently (regarding the Atlas A7 Smart meters now charging people for their own solar, with the new solar sponge going down the J Tarrif line - they were never designed to have power on this line in day light hours). Ombudsman's mind blown!
Will add this to the list.
Atlas A7 Smart meters now charging people for their own solar
As in there has been a remote reprogramming of them which has resulted in incorrect export calc?
Plenty of people with Atlas A7 Mk2 meters working fine for solar installs, though unsure of any sa specific programming
Still working that out. At the moment, whenever the controlled load circuit is active and drawing power, it doesnt acknowledge solar export. So net result on metering is 2kw of solar export dissapears, at the same time im being charged for 2kw controlled load.
So basically, paying for my own solar.
So yeah, some programming / reading issue. Had metering out and showed me the connections inside the meter. Nothing they could physically change.
@tunzafun001: Draw a circuit.
You will find that the 2kWh from solar are going forward via the controlled load's meter, and (if any left over) backwards through the normal power meter.
Unless there is no sun, then it will only charge you for the controlled load, and nothing exported.
@Marty156: That's how it should work for mains power.
Controlled load is not meant to be offset with solar. So the full charge should be there, but the full export should be paid. Ie. Even though your own solar is used you receive 17c/kWh feed in tariff for it, but then have to pay 22c/kWh J Tarrif to use it. So basically you pay the difference. Ie. When working "correctly" you pay 5c/ kWh for your own solar (as there is only one wire to the grid and electrons can't go two ways at once).
However, I ran it for one hour. Then looked up the historical data on SAPN website.
Got charged for the full 2kwh (ie 2 x 22c), and the solar feed in dropped by 2kw, which is the element.size (so lost 2 x 17c) when controlled load commenced. Solar feed in instantly jumped up by 2kw once controlled load demand finished.
Net result. Lost 34c feed in + paid 44c. So 78c cost, when I should only be paying 10c.. for one hr usage…of my own solar.
@tunzafun001: Impossible to get that 2kW FIT AND go to controlled load at the same time.
Your switchboard can only detect any excess power to the grid, not how solar is being used for your own load(s).
-That 2kW goes directly VIA the controlled load meter to the controlled load backwards. (Charging yourself for that)
Any excess solar OVER 2kw will go through your normal meter in reverse -giving you your FIT less the 2kw of self-use.
Draw the circuit, one meter for normal power, extra meter for controlled load. BOTH these meters and solar feed are joined at the same point in your switchboard.
Solar power will go (as electrons are want to do) to nearest point to complete their travel, so the first solar 2kW will go via your controlled load and meter backwards. Any left over will complete their excursions via the power meter backwards to the grid.
PS: Assuming the controlled load is a hot water service, be cheaper to remove cotrolled meter, fit a time clock and only switch on time clock from say 11:00 to 15:00 and heat the water from solar power for free.
(For small household with 250 litre tank this works and we have had NO power charges in 9 years. 5kW solar.)
@Marty156: You're basically correct on most parts.
However, the electrons from the solar panels need to physically travel through the meter to reach the controlled load circuit (Enerven opened it up and showed me).
So they should be able to monitor the FIT (and offset it against my usage), even though it will never actually reach the road, but has passed the meter to grid side.
But not paying the FIT, plus charging is not right.
Im going to do exactly as you say (as we both understand what is going on). However, 99% of the population with J Tarrif storage HWS and solar would have no idea they are effectively being double charged.
Ombudsman is looking into it.
@tunzafun001: Something not right as there is no solar connection or breaker for an inverter. This appears to be a sub board controlled from a main board and separately metered.
@Elppa8: Yeah, two different boards.
This pic is our old house im selling (HWS died two days before settlement). New house has the solar issue.
Getting a heat pump installed, and they need to install a new RCD breaker… But couldn't as they cant isolate the power (need to book in SAPN to pull the fuse). Missed settlement.
Give SA Power Networks a call. Talk to them about your concerns. I think you'll find they are very concerned with the safety and standards of what's connected to their grid.
Ask for an inspection of the contractor's work, this shouldn't cost you any money. Should the work not meet the required standards, they have the capability to enforce getting it fixed.
https://www.sapowernetworks.com.au/
You don't need to go through it, that's the retailers job, it's a TLDR but SA Power Networks publish the
Hi mate, see my update at the bottom. In summary, the contractor (who changed the meter while I was at work) never lodged a compliance certificate. So no idea who it was.
Technical regulator didn't like it, but apparently has nothing to act on. My mind …blown!
So here's what I'm thinking. Since there is a structure installed on my premises without a compliance certificate, the retailer will need to come out and remove it asap. I was hoping the OTR would give me a time frame for enforcement, but didn't give me much. Also, I'm pretty sure I have a photo of the main switch in place. So will ask for that (or equivalent returned), as it's basically theft. Hopefully gets them moving.
No. It's not normal.
Double negative.
It’s not not not not not not not not not not not a double negative, thanks to the full stop
That's shocking!
Why was the smart meter installed? Call who ever was responsible and let them know that they have removed the main switch, which is causing a potential electrical electrocution issue as there is no switch that can be used to turn power off if an electrician needs to work on a circuit. This should get them to fix it in a hurry.
Do not mention anything about the old style circuit breakers..
Life used to be that simple. Now you speak to someone, who handballs you to another team, who handballs you to another team with a mysterious acronym (new favourite SME…Subject Matter Expert).
He is then at lunch and "will call you back in an hr"… of course never does..
Basically, this is why people just go at it with a wooden baseball bat and then get a solution
Long story short, their responsibility ends at the meter. If you never had a main switch before, and relied on turning off the old style meter, that's a you problem. Call an electrician to update the board.
However, since they replaced the meter which has resulted in this becoming your problem, you might have some chance of whinging to your retailer and getting a job booked. Worth a shot. Won't cost you anything but time.
*Update - Spoke to SAPN and the Technical Regulator today.
SAPN said the removal of the switch doesn't make sense (unless it was burnt out when they replaced the main fuse), but said there should be notes on file if this was the case, and he doesn't have any. If the metering company removed it, then it's got nothing to do with them (also doesn't make sense).
The technical regulator said they have no record of the smart meter being installed (should be a certificate of compliance logged), and therefore has no idea who did it. BUT, they have no authority to follow this up. I thought a compliance breach would be an easy follow up, apparently not!
He suggested I ring the retailer and find out who did the install, but likely they wont know, and even more likely, even if I do find out who did the install, the said company are very unlikely to admit to removing the main switch.
Even though it has a big branded "Vector' sticker on it, and you can see where the main switch used to be (unfaded square section on the board with a wire hole) he said this isn't enough to prove they removed it. Basically need photo evidence pre installation and post installation. I did take a photo of my meter for an AGL read once, this is my long shot if I can find it. Definitely used to be one there. I have replaced the AC breaker and added another GPO bank. Definitely not done live.
Regulator said the most likely path is I pay SAPN $400 to come and pull the main fuse, and pay a sparky $300 to reinstall the main switch.
So I learnt from this that our electricity situation is a complete mess. So many fingers in the pie, and an endless handball of responsibility.
As for the solar situation, SAPN confirmed today that everyone is paying for their own solar with a controlled load system coming on with solar sponge. Did say I should be getting a feed in tarrif though, so something isn't right. So you pay 22c for your own electricity, but receive 17c back for the feed in is the 'correct' procedure. Said you need to follow that up with the retailer…which I already have and they blaimed metering. Metering came out and blamed SAPN's back end. Supposed to hear back from the Ombudsman today. Called his office, got told he would call me back after his next call. Didn't happen…might have his hands full with this one.
If solar power goes to your hot water meter as described previously, there is no way of identifying that same power going to the grid because it is not going backwards through your normal meter.
Solar export goes back through the meter before going to the Controlled load input (Enerven metering actually opened it and showed me). So no physical issue in monitoring. It's the back end/ physical control of the meter that isn't reading it properly, as there was no reason for this function.
The system was never designed to have controlled load running in daylight hours.
They are all taking a head in the sand approach. Ombudsman is trying to work it out.
Photos?