I just went to my regular GP and got told they will be changing the bulk billing and will not be covering any one who doesn’t own a healthcare card or a pension card so anyone attending their practice will need to pay the full amount.
There was a mention of this on a Current Affair as well. Just wanted to know what are the chances about Medicare being scrapped? What would be the possible consequences of this to the common people .
If scrapping bulk billing for GPs means that I don't have to wait 2months to see my local GP because people are actually going to the GP now because they genuinely need to - not because they have some kind of self-requirement/need to go weekly, then sure go for it.
I’m not saying the GPs aren’t doing it tough, in fact I think Medicare should increase the amount they are paid or they should include a copayment for the average patient. However, the timing of this is rather interesting. The AMA tends to lean towards the Liberal party; satire programs used to call them the Painters and Doctors Union (A pisstake on the Painters and Dockers union). A new Labor Government is a good time to rattle a few cages. The fee for GPs hasn’t increased for ten years, the Liberal Party has been in Government most of that time. The Liberal party doesn’t like Medicare but it would be political suicide to get rid of it. Look at how they got so upset with what they termed Mediscare. The question is “why now?”.
The government froze Medicare rebates back in 2013. But costs have increased significantly since then. Hence it's not cost effective to run a bulk billed medical practice in most (?all) parts of Australia. The government also doesn't allow you to use private health insurance for primary care services.
Hence unless there are major rebate changes, bulk billing GP's will gradually become a thing of the past and we will end up paying an upfront fee. But this will be political suicide so I'd expect there will be some changes.
Scrap the rebate (and therefore the bulk bill), create government owned clinics everywhere (with similar distributions like school, can be hosted at public hospitals too) with salaried GPs, free of charge for everyone. Let them compete.
These clinics already exist in small numbers. They were created under the federal government's GP Super Clinics Program. https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Cont…
I believe somebody crunched numbers on those superclinics such as these and around canberra, total cost per presentation was somewhere around 150-250. yet the government won't fund CPI increases let alone AMA rate of 80 odd which is double the current rebate
I wouldn't mind paying if the GPs were any good. So many misdiagnoses, and for anything else, they simply refer you to a specialist. I can figure out myself if I need to go to a specialist, what a rort.
you absolutely can self refer, you just won't get a rebate which will be maybe 20-30% of specialist fees because they don't bulk bill. But prepare to waste money and time because what you think you need is rarely correct withour medical training
But prepare to waste money and time because what you think you need is rarely correct withour medical training
Disagree. As with everything, DYOR & never simply accept what a Dr says.
Well, I'm going for surgery in a few days, for something I already knew that I needed a specialist for. Ended up at the same place, except with additional doctors fees and cost to the taxpayer.
Took my son to the doctor a couple of weeks ago with a sorry throat. "He has a vital infection" says they doctor. "But take this script for antibiotics anyway, and get them if he isn't better in a few days". Super.
Year back, I went to a doctor with pain and severe swelling of my elbow, after having it stabbed by a spiky tree. "Tennis elbow" the doctor says, take this script. A few days later, and much worse, I take myself to the ER due to ridiculous body temps, severe pain etc. "You have blood poisoning". Hurray, thanks doctor.
Are we telling bad doctor stories?
What's your industry? We can do those too.
What's your industry? We can do those too.
Everyone already does, not sure why doctors get a free pass?
I went to a doctor with pain and severe swelling of my elbow, after having it stabbed by a spiky tree. "Tennis elbow" the doctor says
So the Dr diagnosed a sports injury after you told them you have been injured by a tree branch?
I don't doubt such miscommunication is possible since there is so little time for diagnosis in a 15min consult, but it sounds like there is more to the story
So the Dr diagnosed a sports injury after you told them you have been injured by a tree branch?
While the name may be misleading, it is not necessarily a sporting injury. Buy yes, that is what she did.
but it sounds like there is more to the story
There isn't, and there was no miscommunication. One of the only times I went to a non-bulk billing doctor as well. So I paid out if pocket to be misdiagnosed and end up in hospital.
So many misdiagnoses
Too many! You truly have to be your own health advocate.
Good GPs are a rarity; I know of people who would accept mediocre at best based on their previous experiences.
Sorry to hear about your experience, but i don't know about you but if I got ripped off by a builder who did a bad job I'm going to find another good one and not try to build one on my own
I'm a bit mystified as to why you would draw an analogy between managing your health and building your own home.
@[Deactivated]: Because they are both specialised areas where expertise from a qualified professional is going to save you a lot of heartache.
Let's try a different analogy. Qantas being shit doesn't mean i'm never going to fly again
@May4th: A qualified professional doctor can also misdiagnose you and in the worst case example, you can lose your life.
Being ripped of by a qualified professional builder is an inconvenience, however if you're still alive and healthy and have the means then you should be able to DYOR and locate another builder to complete your home build.
@[Deactivated]: Likewise a good pilot sometimes will go down with a plane. Does that write off an industry altogether?
@[Deactivated]: When logic fails there's always name calling. having differing opinions does not equate troll
@[Deactivated]: Your edge case with the builder should be the house collapsing on you and killing you, not being ripped off, if you’re going to go to the same extreme of dying. Otherwise you’re pretty much just strawmanning here sir troll.
@Whodis: So easy to recognise the troll-ey klan.
Next time, try harder to reply to the correct comment
I don't mind paying a gap fee if the GP is good. Short visits to get an updated prescription or medical certs should be bulk billed though. Prolonged consultations should be absolutely bulk billed, and this frees up slots for people that are genuinely sick. When I am genuinely sick, it was at least 1 week to book into my GP, so hopefully the gap fee will weed out the people who aren't genuinely sick.
Medicare wont get scrapped
However GPs will be forced to bill privately since current payments are uneconomic
We moved to Tasmania four years ago, and bulk billing is almost non-existent here anyway, unless you're on a concession/health care card etc (which we're not, so we have to pay the gap fee regardless of which GP we go to).
Where abouts in Tasmania? And are you happy you made the move?
We’re in southern Tasmania, live rurally but both work in Hobart. Are we happy with the move? Yes and no, like most places, there are good things and bad things. We live on a small acreage, and have a lovely view, fresh air, clean water and all that good stuff :). Love the cooler weather, one of the main reasons we moved here. Takes about 30 minutes to get to work, but we leave home at 6.30am. Leave an hour later and it can take twice as long - yes, there IS traffic in Tassie! Nowhere near as bad as Sydney, Melbourne etc though of course. I do shop more online now as there’s less of a range of retail stores, and often prices are cheaper online. Oh, and I miss Aldi!
The cost of living is higher (especially with the price of fuel these days, and the cost of commuting to work) as wages tend to be lower, and the job market isn’t great (hasn’t been for some time). TBH I wouldn’t recommend anyone moving to Tassie if they, or their children, need regular access to health care (physical or mental), due to cost and lack of GPs, specialists and hospital facilities, especially here in the south. Real estate prices are just insane, and rentals are almost impossible to get. There are often posts on the local Facebook community groups from people desperately looking for a rental property, and I’ve known some who have had to move back to the mainland as they couldn’t find anywhere to live after months of trying.
I just read back over that and it makes Tassie sound awful LOL. Nothing unique about the problems here of course, it’s the same in a lot of places these days.
Tassie sounds a bit like a bigger mid sized Australian town. A large version of Geelong.
Personally the cold would kill me, but I could see the attraction in Summer.
I think a bunch of tree and sea changers might be about to see your problems. Rural living sounds good until you have to see specialists, you want to see a show or you depend on public transport.
Most places have good and bad aspects.
It won't be officially scrapped. GP co payment is the defacto scrapping of bulk billing pretty much.
GPs suffer the same problem as childcare centres. They have these crazy overheads. Especially if they don't own the property their practice is on and every year is a CPI adjustment to rents.
My area every single GP started "mix billing".
I went yesterday and spent less than 10min to get a prescription and I was not charged. However for those longer consultations, $30 is currently the co payment.
Yeah this has been my recent experiences too. The annoying thing is when you go in expecting a bulk billed consult but still get charged. I once got told I had to come in to renew a prescription. So I booked an appointment, came in, doctor didn't give af and sorted the prescription in 30 seconds no questions asked, so I wasn't sure why I had to come in. He then saw I worked in IT on my profile and spent the next 10 minutes asking for technical advice for his tech start-up side hustle. I then came out and found out I'd been billed a standard consult for the privilege. And maybe it's just me, but it feels kind of wrong to argue price in a GP clinic so I just paid it and never went back.
Lol you should have billed him back for IT advice XD
Lot of countries in Asia you can go to the pharmacy and tell them your illness and they can give you script medicine over the counter without a doctor. All over and done in minutes.
How many people see a doctor for a simple script of antibiotics worth $10. That will cost Doc, Gov and Patient $100+++ by the time they process the invoice record the visit, print script papers, fuel to drive to clinic, take time off waiting in clinic.
OK Doctors have their place but go see a pharmacist and then they can refer you if they're unsure.
and those countries are where we see the most patients with multiresistant bacterial infections where a 'simple' urine infection we can treat here with those $10 drugs you describe, can end up killing you
we have many over the counter medications the pharmacists are perfectly capable of recommending, and antibiotics isn't one of them - looking at you QLD
Out of interest what indication would you consider just needing “a simple script of antibiotics”? Who is going to consider the differential diagnoses that can be potentially life threatening, assessing which antibiotic is appropriate, weighing up the risks of the antibiotic side effects and the condition itself?
This is like dentist issues for me. It'll make me go much less and put issues off.
It's also a big issue for simple things like repeats on scripts. Not to mention waiting an hour and paying 65 bucks for a zoloft repeat. Change the system for things like that.
I have literally waited an hour, been in the doctor office for 2 mins, and charged 65 [ yeah I only paid the 20 dollar gap]
It's a joke.
Book the 1st appt of the day / after lunch break or ask for a telehealth appt next time might be worth a try to minimise wait time
Your complaint about waiting an hour is realistically because your GP is overbooking to make up for their low billing rates. Yes on occasion there are also emergencies and other things that crop up, but most of the time it’s going to be because they’re trying to book on paper more than they can physically see in the allotted time. If we paid for GPs like we paid for lawyers, there’d be a far less waiting room time.
The surgery I go to has had a co-payment for years. Started out at about $10 as I recall, now up to $20. Everyone pays, even Health Care Card holders and pensioners. I am on the Age Pension, and I have to pay the co-payment. On rare occasions, if the consult is very simple and only takes a few minutes, my doctor will sometimes just bulk bill me. But I am a long standing customer so that might help.
Someone mentioned those awful mass bulk billing clinics - guess we can blame Edelsten for that fiasco.
GP visits in regional Australia have had a gap for at least 25 years. I pay $88, my wife pays $90. It has been over $70 for a decade.
And that's the gap!? Jesus how much bank are these people making? I'm normally in and out in 5 or 10 minutes. 6 patients @ $90 per patient would be $540/hr BEFORE medicare contributions.
You will find most GPs see around 4 patients per hour if they are private charging.
Your 6 x $90 is unrealistic. The $90 includes a Medicare rebate to the patient e.g. the $90 is the total amount that goes to the clinic.
That amount (minus the doctor's portion) pays for all expenses such as wages to nurses/receptionists/cleaners, dressings, IT Software, utilities and rent.
Anyone remember this : -
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-03/turnbull-defends-cash…
Our governments are corrupt plain and simple.
On another note are we saying Bulk billing GPs are poor? I am sorry but i have many friends / acquaintances that are bulk billing GPs, every single one will be categorised in the high income or mid-high income groups…
I overheard the receptionist mentioning the same thing to a patient on my last visit recently too.
A better question might be to conduct a survey on:
The possibility of government implementing policy changes that will NOT get them elected!
GP here, your GP has one job, to care for you and your family. In Australia, this is mostly funded by the federal government, in the form of a Medicare rebate.
If you are as angry as we are GP’s mostly work in privately owned and operated practices. There are many costs, including staff wages and medical equipment. We all know that the cost of living has increased in recent years, and costs to medical practices are no different. In fact, medical equipment costs increase at more than twice the rate of inflation every year . Despite the increase in costs, which are being felt by everyone, the government has not increased the Medicare rebate enough to support your ongoing healthcare. In reality, Medicare rebates have barely increased in the last 10 years. Labor started the Medicare “freeze” in 2013, and the Liberal coalition continued it. As a result, the current funding for General Practice is less than half of what it should be if it had kept up with real world costs.
We don't get sick leave, parental leave, annual leave etc…It takes 12 years on average to become a GP and the rate medical graduates are becoming one is significantly dropping. I have seen many of my colleagues burnt out and some have stopped practicing or retiring early.
I mainly see mental health as that's my passion but this means I have to see less patients a hour, maybe 2 or 3 and if I bulk billed, I would have to change career because I would most likely get bankrupt. In addition, we spend thousands on insurance, education, colleague and registration fees, equipment and practice fees.
This. Rising costs of practice, development, and indemnity to name a few things. Then you have the risk of litigation and devaluation by government. It's no small wonder that many young and brilliant doctors are moving away from primary care. I know excellent GPs who are taking their skills elsewhere due to the current state of affairs. It's becoming a mug's game.
I need to renew my prescription every 3 months.
Perhaps the pharmacist could do it.
I have seen quite a few medical centres that used to do bulk billing no longer doing it.
Reality is that for bulk billing to continue, taxes have to be raised substantially as someone has to pay for the higher rates payable to the GPs.
Since increasing taxes is a politically sensitive issue, governments tend to do nothing, which means all GP's will eventually stop bulk billing. Even those GPs who currently bulk bill health cards and pensions, will eventually stop doing so. Taxes by stealth.
This means the sad demise of universal free healthcare in Australia if the we prefer to prioritise hundreds of billions on nuclear submarines over tens of billions to properly fund Medicare to allow bulk-billing GPs to exist..
We will no longer hold bragging rights of free healthcare to all citizens over the US.
Set bulk bill rates too high and efficiency will take a hit. People who like chitchatting to their doctor will visit every week. Tax dollars will not be used as effectively.
Not bulk billing might save you in the short term, but cost much more in the longer term because people don't have preventative care - they wait until they are really sick and need a lot more expensive treatments. You pay to get preventative dental so that you don't need to get a root canal later on.
A reasonable co-payment for the majority is not a bad solution - sufficient disincentive to frivolous healthcare usage, but affordable enough that people can use it several times a year when they need to (with a safety net that could be linked to their income, for example).
If people were sensible to set aside money in their budget for healthcare needs, we would not need Medicare. Unfortunately, there are few people who actively save, and many disadvantaged who don't earn much. Taxation is a way of ensuring that the disadvantaged get healthcare, and higher income earners disproportionately bear the burden. I'm sure higher earners would much rather have a lower tax rate in exchange for no bulk billing, but the majority of the population would cry unfair.
Final comments on people who seem not to like doctors earning lots of money. These are individuals who are high achievers - intelligent, diligent, but also good communicators, high EQ, problem solvers. They spend years training, and never stop learning even after attaining fellowship. Registration fees, college fees, professional development fees, insurance fees are all not cheap. Compared to other professionals, they don't really earn all that much. And the standard of care and attention to detail is much much higher than other professions.
Like the old adage, you can't get something fast, cheap, and good. You can have a short waiting time, a less expensive service, or a quality service (at best 2 of the 3) but not all at once. I would like good quality healthcare without waiting very long, and I'm happy to pay for that service.
Thank you for understanding. I have spent 15 years mastering my craft and do the absolute best for every single patient I see, average 5-10min wait time and everyone gets 20 minutes of consult time. If I start bulk billing, I would have to reduce the time to 10 minutes in order to be financially feasible thus would significantly reduce my quality of care. I completely understand that many people struggle to pay a gap fee but that is the governments responsibility to help those in need, a private business should not sacrifice their viability and risk shutting down.
I really hope people understand that this isnt 'GP's being greedy", its about doing our very best to EXIST for the coming years to help the community. The number of locally trained GPs are dramatically falling because medical students are totally put off general practice.
It's also not your responsibility to subsidize the nation's healthcare needs. What people don't realise is that everytime a GP takes below market rate for an appointment (aka bulk bills), that's exactly what they are doing.
In no other industry are ultimately qualified professionals expected to make such a sacrifice.
This means the sad demise of universal free healthcare in Australia if the we prefer to prioritise hundreds of billions on nuclear submarines over tens of billions to properly fund Medicare to allow bulk-billing GPs to exist.
We will no longer hold bragging rights of free healthcare to all citizens over the US.
The problem is that private enterprise with a monopoly or monopsony isn't any better. Just have a look at the American private health insurers. Also have a look at how terrible their broadband is in many areas.
A free market isn't the answer and a govt corporation with terrible inefficiency can be just as bad.
We need something that mixes the best of both worlds.