Collision: Who's at Fault?

Ldarkknight on 10/08/2022 - 23:01
Last edited 11/08/2022 - 20:45

Collision Diagram

Two Fridays ago, we (car B) were parked in an IGA parking lot. We're getting back inside our car when car A exited his spot and hit our car, dragged our door and caused this damage. I was already in the driver seat but the car is still stationary. My wife told me the door was not opened that much as my 3 year old daughter couldn't properly get inside. Her leg is half-way in. This horrifies me to this day thinking it could be a lot worse.

I tried to stop the other driver from leaving and exchange details. We talked/argued for a bit but he didn't want to give his details and he drove off. Since the damage to our car is significant, I had no choice but to report to the police and file a claim to my insurer.

At that time, there's no obvious damage to the other car.

Our insurer told us it was our fault because of NSW road rule 269 point # 3. I was almost at the acceptance stage since it didn't occur to me to get the witnesses' details and the CCTV footage didn't really have our car in the view because of its angle. CCTV

Fast forward to today, I received a notice from the other party's insurer. They filed a claim and they're saying it's our fault and we are liable.

This is really stressing me out.

From my perspective:
* We are within our rights to go back inside the car, the other party didn't check his mirrors before driving off. He would have seen us.
* The parking lot was busy. One car just passed by and another one is coming.
* The car that hit us immediately turned right. He should have moved forward a bit before making a right.

Do we have no case here? Is there no point in fighting this?

Thanks for reading.

Edit: change CCTV footage link to imgur (had to trim the video too)

Poll Options

  • 113
    Car A
  • 23
    Car B
  • 7
    Both (which one is more at fault?)
Automotive

Comments

      • Caped Baldy on 11/08/2022 - 16:08
        +1

        I'm a bit skeptical of the claim that the door was only open a little. I've seen it quite a few times where kids just blindly open the doors to the max in busy car parks.

        • Quantumcat on 11/08/2022 - 16:11
          +1

          The mother was with the child and the child wasn't capable of opening the door from the outside by herself (according to OP), so no more likely to be widely open than any other adult opening the door.

          Even if the door was widely open it is still the driver's fault as they need to be aware of hazards (it could have been a child at that location rather than the door!). Even though OP and OPs wife might have been able to prevent it (the ute might still have swung wide enough to hit the door without it being open, can't know) by assuming the other guy wasn't paying enough attention to what he was doing and waited until he was gone before approaching the doors.

  • soggypotato on 11/08/2022 - 17:26

    op, i think (?) your personal details are on that g-drive cctv link

    • Muzeeb on 11/08/2022 - 17:28
      -1

      Ssssssssssh. Don't tell the Guzman.

    • darkknight on 11/08/2022 - 18:47

      Took it down for now. I'm trying to upload via imgur but so far no luck.

  • Domingo on 11/08/2022 - 18:04

    How did the notice from the other party's insurance get to you? Did he take your details but not provide his own?

    Definitely a fact I would include in pushing forward for having the other party charged with not providing details if they took yours - that shows clear intent to commit an offence:

    Under NSW Road Rules, you must exchange some details. These include:
    ​- the driver's name and address
    - if the driver is not the owner of the car, the name, address of the person who owns the car
    - the car's registration number
    - any other information necessary to identify the car.
    It is an offence to not exchange details.

    https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis…

    • darkknight on 11/08/2022 - 18:13
      +1

      The police was able to contact him and then the police gave him my details.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 12/08/2022 - 21:44

        Is that something they should really be doing? What happens if he comes and hurts you or your family?

        • Willy Beamish on 12/08/2022 - 22:35

          If that happens then that would be the only time they actually have a claim for something that wasn't their fault.

  • chrisn26 on 12/08/2022 - 13:09

    Reg 269 is such a silly rule, count yourself lucky the coppers didn't slap you with a fine.

  • xlimit on 12/08/2022 - 20:32
    +1

    What a frustrating scenario. Obviously the ute is in the wrong. His action of moving caused the damage from his pivoting tray. But this is hard to determine with without clear video evidence - they could argue your daughter opened the door even more when the ute started moving, which wedged between the cabin and the tray.

    If you've received notice from the other party, then you should be able to find out where the damage is on the ute. If it's to the back corner of the tray then I'd chase it all the way to court. If the damage was at the front then it'd be much harder to say whether the time, energy and extra cost would be worth it.

    Who is your insurer? Sounds like they suck.

  • kiitos on 12/08/2022 - 21:20

    In the photo of the damaged door, is the door in the same position as it was when the accident occurred? I can't imagine how that much denting could happen to the door without it being pushed closed against the door frame.

    • darkknight on 12/08/2022 - 21:39

      My daughter would have been crushed if the door was pushed to the frame. It was dragged outward in an akward way resulting to that.

  • Willy Beamish on 12/08/2022 - 21:39
    -2

    Your wife left the door open too far obviously.

    Your fault.

  • AwesomeAndrew on 12/08/2022 - 22:20
    -2

    You should buy a Tesla (or other brand of car) which has a 360 degree dashcam, which can clearly capture exactly what happens in situations like these. This will make dealing with insurance much easier. From the CCTV footage, the back of car A seems to have lifted up quite a bit, which suggests that the back of car A hit car B with a force big enough to force B's car door closed and then bend the metal in the door, causing the extent of damage shown in the image. Therefore I conclude that A was travelling on a trajectory that would hit B regardless of whether the door was open or not, therefore it should be A's fault.

    • MorriJ on 13/08/2022 - 19:59

      3 year old daughter couldn't properly get inside. Her leg is half-way in.

      I think the fact the 3 year old is not hopping mad and missing a leg demonstrates the car door was forced open, not shut. I for one question your expertise and conclusion on the matter.

  • kaleidoscope on 12/08/2022 - 23:53

    Sht luck OP, glad no one got hurt. Based on your comments it seems you’re not at fault. I’d say fight to death on this one and make other ute dckhead pay. Your starting point should be failure to exchange details. Chase through your insurer and write back to other insurer because they mist have heard only other side’s story.

    Good luck

  • supersabroso on 13/08/2022 - 00:41
    +1

    That rule shown by your insurance is bollocks as it only applies to the normal road. Not a shopping centre car park where it's expected for cars to have doors open, it's up to the driver to check that no doors are in the way before pulling in/out. They are definitely at fault which is why they wanted to drive away without exchanging details.

  • DeeTrance on 13/08/2022 - 04:44
    +1

    From your diagram, photos and the CCTV, I can't work out how that could have happened unless you opened your door too wide into the ute's lane.

    • Caped Baldy on 13/08/2022 - 11:02

      That's my thoughts too. The tray looks pretty smooth too except for the end near the cabin. Would mean the door was opened quite wide.

      The tray would swing but I doubt it would that widely.

  • drift7rs on 13/08/2022 - 18:01

    Car A should've looked, how else can you get into your car even?

  • Muzeeb on 15/08/2022 - 21:58

    Any updates OP?

  • boojah on 16/08/2022 - 12:21
    +1

    This is almost certainly, in my view, a tail swing incident caused by Car A. See a pretty good explanation of tail swing here: https://youtu.be/y5MSGqfh8z0?t=365

    Given the width of the parking spots seem to be quite narrow, it wouldn't take much of a tail swing from Car A to cross over into the Car B's spot and impact Car B. Car A has turned immediately while exiting the parking spot, and it would seem based on this, he isn't even aware of the fact that his vehicle has a tail swing. This is despite the fact that Car A has (what looks to be) an aftermarket tray fitted to his Volkswagen Amarok which mean his rear overhang is significant (I would guess approximately 1.8m) so Car A should know it can be a problem. Regardless, onus is on Car A to exit the parking spot safely.

    Obligatory MS Paint diagram explanation: https://imgur.com/a/1qKXueU

    • Muzeeb on 16/08/2022 - 12:54

      But your diagram does not show car B's passenger door open in car A's lane.

      • boojah on 16/08/2022 - 14:10

        True. I was just trying to illustrate that, with tail swing, it's entirely possible that Car A could have caused this damage to Car B even if Car B's door was completely shut.

        • Muzeeb on 16/08/2022 - 14:20

          Fair enough.

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