Disappointed with Appliances Online - Sold a Lemon but Won't Refund

Niko123456 on 05/08/2022 - 22:16
Last edited 06/08/2022 - 12:20 by 1 other user

I bought a dryer from Appliances Online in May.

In July, it broke down. The service agent came out and ordered a part, but claim they can't come back to fix it until August 31.

I asked Appliances Online for a return/refund, but they claim because the machine is fixable, it doesn't meet the criteria of a "major fault". Meanwhile, a machine I bought 3 months ago is out of action for a significant amount of time.

I personally think this is pretty poor behaviour from Appliances Online. In my head I'd thought they were slightly better than the bricks and mortar competition but I've quickly discovered they.are.exactly.the.same… I might as well have gone to the Good Guys FFS.

Honestly, why do businesses act like this? It's a lemon, you sold a lemon…

Electrical & Electronics Akai Clothes Dryer Heat Pump Dryer

Related Stores

Appliances Online
Appliances Online

Comments

  • Hybroid on 05/08/2022 - 22:41
    +21

    They're actually in the right by offering you a free repair and not obliged to offer you a refund for a minor issue which can be fixed with a part replacement. Electronics breakdowns do happen no matter the product.

    It might worth reading the ACCC guidelines on this: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

    • jjjaar on 05/08/2022 - 22:54
      +7

      A product or good has a major problem when:
      it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it

      If OP had known it was gonna stop working, they wouldn’t have bought it. Major fault.

      it doesn’t do what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time

      Also, can’t be fixed in a reasonable time is also worth querying. I would argue a month wait over winter is not reasonable.

      I am all for things being fixed instead of just replaced, but AO should have replaced it for OP, taken this one back to fix and sell it at a lower price.

      • Hybroid on 05/08/2022 - 22:57
        +8

        No one would buy a product they knew would stop working. That would apply to a product that has a known common fault or recall etc. Not something that breaks for random reasons like any electronics can, else there's no point to any repairs, just refund everything that breaks.

        I do agree on the reasonable time bit though, good point. OP might have a chance to suggest 3 weeks without dryer isn't a reasonable wait. Worth trying.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2022 - 01:09
          +3

          This!

          People have a ridiculously permissive view of a major fault. People would still buy something knowing there’s a 1:30000 chance it breaks early, knowing there’s a warranty and it can be repaired, because all their options have the same potential issue. If a one off breakage was a major issue no one would buy anything! (And no one could afford to sell anything).

          Agree they can maybe push on the repair time, but as far as the law goes they’re probably still SOL for a first repair done within a month.

        • MrThing on 06/08/2022 - 11:54
          -3

          people still buy tesla's even thou they are made from junk from home depot

        • ssfps on 12/01/2024 - 08:33
          -1

          Not something that breaks for random reasons like any electronics can

          This is bullshit, electronics only break "randomly" because of cost-cutting. They could engineer dryer electronics to last 100 years with next to no failures if they really wanted to.

          • kerfuffle on 12/01/2024 - 08:38

            @ssfps: What's bullshit: you replying to a comment made in August 2022.

            • ssfps on 13/01/2024 - 01:57
              -1

              @kerfuffle: Where is the disclaimer on your post saying it's a temporary shitpost that should be ignored after a week?

              Are you the guy that posts in reddit threads 3 days old saying "whoopsie doopsie i'm late to the party but…"?

              (If you missed the point - understanding our ACL rights for whitegoods in 2024 is as relevant as it was in 2022 and 2023).

          • Hybroid on 12/01/2024 - 12:57

            @ssfps: They absolutely could. General public wouldn't pay the price for it though.

            • ssfps on 13/01/2024 - 02:04
              -1

              @Hybroid: I'm not sure that's true - partly it's education but partly it's simply all that's on offer.

              It just bothers me that so many of us collectively accept the shit-ification of goods. There is always a (smaller) market for quality if it's available. I have various 10-35 year old electronics where they still run flawlessly, even the capacitors are still good and original. It would be pretty easy for Bosch to sell us a $2.5k-$3k washing machine with really robust electronics, schematics for the electronics, and easily serviceable bearings/drum, but they simply don't have the economic motivation to do it. They generally under-provision the bearings, too, across the entire market. If they improved them, most peoples machines would probably rust out before they failed. Then Bosch would only make $30 for some bearings every 15-20 years on every second machine.

              Perhaps it should be called "incidental" planned obsolescence in absence of direct proof they are deliberately engineering them to be hard to service and fail often.

              Thus, "electronics fail" simply isn't a fair denial of ACL rights for whitegoods. If the norm across the entire market became that fridge compressors had a high chance of failure within 1-2 years, that doesn't make it fair to say "well compressors fail, happens all the time".

      • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 11:18
        +1

        If OP had known it was gonna stop working, they wouldn’t have bought it. Major fault.

        A major fault is a fault that can't easily be fixed. In this case, it can be.

        • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:19

          It can't be easily fixed though. It requires a specialist third party to conduct the repairs.

          • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 11:23
            -1

            @Niko123456: LOL and what does that have to do with it?

            It is the case with most repairs under warranty they require specialist third parties to conduct the repairs on behalf of the OEM, you don't see any end users replacing the panel in their Samsung TVs when they fail, or doing the warranty repairs on a dishwasher when the pump dies. These companies all send out 3rd party repair people to do it. Even specialists you could say.

            • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:33

              @JimmyF: Sure, but an easy repair might be something like replacing a seal or attaching a part.

              Basically your argument is that a TV that needs a new panel is an easy fix, so I dunno how I can convince you otherwise.

              • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 12:10
                -1

                @Niko123456:

                Basically your argument is that a TV that needs a new panel is an easy fix, so I dunno how I can convince you otherwise.

                LOL Say what!? TV panels are replaced all the time for faults with them, normally in your own home by specialist third party companies assigned by the OEM to do the work. What you might call 'hard' doesn't mean it is hard for others.

                So not sure what 'convincing' you think needs to happen here. Sounds like your world of what can be repaired and how needs some enlightening if you think TV panels can't be replaced easily.

            • cookie2 on 06/08/2022 - 21:51
              +2

              @JimmyF: The 3rd party and lack of part availability have caused a delay in excess of what a reasonable person would consider reasonable. Purchased and ised for 3 months and then out of action for q month? That's 25% of the time since purchase.

              • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 22:27

                @cookie2: Ownership time has nothing to do with repair time. So if it broke down after 2 years of ownership, based on your view it would be ok to wait a month for a repair as that is only a few % of total time since purchase, but that same month of waiting for the OP is unacceptable? OP purchased a cheap unit and surprised by its failure and lack of spare parts. Call me surprised. But none of those issues are AO fault.

  • cheaplee on 05/08/2022 - 22:43
    +10

    Just because they can repair it doesn't mean it isn't a major fault.

    It doesn't work, it's a major fault.

    Request refund or replacement as per your right under ACL and if they keep fobbing you off tell lodge a complaint with the relevant authority in your state.

    Do it all in email so it is all written down

    • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2022 - 01:13
      -3

      Good luck with that. If it can be repaired it’s never major provided recurrence is suitably rare (and the effect of such doesn’t cause a major safety risk)

      Your reading of a major fault would mean no one would not buy anything if there was the possibility it could break and everything can possibly break.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2022 - 09:07
        +4

        it doesn’t do what you asked

        I would say a clothes dryer that doesn’t dry clothes is a major fault.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2022 - 12:29
          +1

          You’ve just defined the word ‘fault’. Be wrong, what do I care any more.

          https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Consumer%20guarantees%2…

          Major is clearly defined, "Major problems cannot be fixed or are too difficult to fix." where there's plenty of room for argument is on 'reasonableness'. There's examples where a month has been found reasonable and where it hasn't.

          • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2022 - 07:44
            -1

            @[Deactivated]: The trouble with you acusing others of being wrong is that you are wrong also, because there are no set times or fault/failure/fix definitions.
            Thats why you go back to what the product is meant to do vs what the fault is.
            A clothes dryer that doesn't dry?
            A refrigerator that doesnt keep food cold?
            These are a bit different to a TV where the HDMI port is not working, you can still use the product and watch free to air or cast from a phone or tablet.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2022 - 19:07

              @[Deactivated]: Yeah, 10 years later you get a flat tyre on a car, it can’t drive, new car???

              You’re right, the definitions are based on reasonableness not the actual impairment to function. This thread is proof that people have different ideas of what is reasonable. HDMI port not working is just as likely to be a major fault, and would be if it couldn’t be fixed.

              • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2022 - 22:53

                @[Deactivated]: Is it reasonable to have to wait 1 month during winter to dry your clothes?

          • trapper on 08/08/2022 - 16:14

            @[Deactivated]: Did you read the consumer guarantees document that you just linked??

            It uses washing machine failing after three months as the flipping example of a major failure. lol

            Major failures
            Major problems cannot be fixed or are too difficult to fix.
            There is a major failure to comply with a consumer guarantee when:
            - You would not have purchased the product if you had known about the problem. For example, you would not have bought the washing machine if you had known the motor would fail after 3 months.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/08/2022 - 19:05

              @trapper: OP had a dryer, not a washing machine, and it wasn’t the motor that failed.

              Obviously the short time between purchase and fault does help OPs case though.

  • askbargain on 05/08/2022 - 22:44
    +5

    Did you tell them you’re from OzBargain?

    • plmko on 05/08/2022 - 23:05

      No, OP's just waiting on Ozb to tell OP to tell them OP's from Ozb. Only then shall OP have permission.

    • SF3 on 05/08/2022 - 23:15
      +2

      Member Since
      19/06/2018

      4 years member too. That ought to add some weight.

      • spackbace on 06/08/2022 - 10:54

        Nup, just added more wait

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:07

      I don't get the reference but I am getting a little pleasure shouting at clouds that AO are being jerks.

  • holdenmg on 05/08/2022 - 22:54

    Does the Dryer dry (or not)?

    What constitutes a Major Fault?

    Call AppliancesOnline (and ask) or https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/

    If you are in Wollongong or somewhere it may take long time…

    TGG offers https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/concierge-member-benefits

    • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2022 - 01:16
      +1

      If you were told the failure rate of the product (in the wider context not just this one instance) would a reasonable person still have purchased it?

      Major faults are almost non existent as the law is interpreted. Break downs on the other hand, are common.

      On the other hand noisy customers are the ones that get better treatment than legally required.

      • GrueHunter on 06/08/2022 - 13:01

        I don't know why you keep banging on about the failure rate.

        No part of the ACL says "It's stopped working completely, not long after you bought it? And it's going to take a month to fix it? That sure sound like a major fau…oh, hang on, turns out a hundred others didn't break, so now it's minor."

        It's "substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time".

        • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2022 - 13:31

          Yes, the entire deciding factor is exactly "can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time" not, is it broken or not. Because the failure rate is the other test, whether you would have purchased it or not, which people are using to say basically every fault is major. People are banging on about how if it stops working all of a sudden it becomes a major fault, which simply isn't true if it can be fixed in a reasonable time. (Of course multiple minor faults can still be a major fault when taken together.)

          Is a month reasonable? Sometimes it has been found to be, other times, perhaps not. That kind of ambiguity is where lawyers make $$$.

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:05
      -3

      It does not dry, nope. It's a heat pump and the pump is broken.

      I am in Wollongong. The service agent is in SW Sydney, 45km away.

      I have another matter before Fair Trading right now (a more serious building warranty issue) and it is taking a long time to get started.

      I reckon I'll go with a credit card charge back next week.

      Annoyingly the manufacturer is Tempo.. if I'd bought the same unit from Aldi I'd be in the clear to return it.

      • MrThing on 06/08/2022 - 11:55
        +1

        ah, so your a karen.

        got it

        • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:58
          +1

          please learn to spell.

        • cookie2 on 06/08/2022 - 21:55

          So the definition of a karen is now someone that fights for themselves and their rights? Since when is that a bad thing?

    • nguyentran on 06/08/2022 - 18:07

      tgg only count the time from inspection, sometime u need to wait for a month to inspect

  • garetz on 05/08/2022 - 23:00
    +6

    I would argue the case they have to repair it in a timely manner as stated in the consumer rights guarantee, it's not necessarily a lemon, I would insist on a replacement or refund if it cant be fixed within a week or 2.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2022 - 13:33

      I would for sure push for it to be repaired quicker. A month can be found to be reasonable in some cases, maybe not in this case, but it's definitely a case by case grey area.

  • 87percent on 06/08/2022 - 07:53
    +1

    I bought a microwave from AO couple of months ago, and the door wasn’t aligned properly with the rest of the microwave. Contacted them, organized for a new one to be re-delivered later that day.

  • EightImmortals on 06/08/2022 - 09:42
    +2

    So what's the problem?

    The unit wasn't DOA and they are going to fix it.

    Is your real problem that you have wait a few weeks for the parts to arrive?

    Welcome to the new world we just waited 5 weeks for parts from Yamaha to get our receiver working again. You should be complaining to the government, they are the ones causing the problems not Appliances Online who seem to be doing their best to get your issue sorted.

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:01

      The problem is a break down within 3 months of ownership and over 5 weeks to repair is not a reasonable outcomes, and AO suggesting they are in the right is precisely why people should avoid them.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2022 - 13:38

        'Reasonable' doesn't have a fixed definition, as you can see from this thread, some people think what you have been offered is reasonable, some think it isn't. It's not a great experience for sure, but there's no objective reason either you or AO are wrong or right. I disagree that their statement is why people should avoid them, but that it might take them over 5 weeks might be for some people reason to avoid them. On the other hand, I'm not sure who in that case you would buy from, because all suppliers have the same issues right now. Which means your choice to avoid such a situation is basically don't buy anything from anyone, or just complain more until the time has passed or they give you a satisfactory solution.

        • trapper on 08/08/2022 - 19:29

          Reasonable in this context would be a guy coming out and fixing it within a few days.

          If they can't do this it should be replaced or refunded for the customer, and then they can fix that broken one on their own time.

    • GrueHunter on 06/08/2022 - 13:02

      tEh leFt cAusEd CovId

    • cookie2 on 06/08/2022 - 21:56

      How do you know that they're doing their best?

  • AndyC1 on 06/08/2022 - 09:47
    +1

    If it cannot be repaired within a reasonable time then it's a major fault and 4 weeks is not a reasonable time. I would ask the support person you speak with what they would do if they had to wait 4 weeks for a repair to a dryer in the middle of winter in a very wet year.

    • MrThing on 06/08/2022 - 11:57
      +2

      reasonable time frame is debatable

      is the part in stock, does the repairer have time in their schedule, how long did OP take to reply to requests for info, how long after it broke did OP contact the retailer

      as always theres more to every story and given OP has other complaints on the go, i reckon OP is just one of those customers

      • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 13:29

        Fair few assumptions there.

        The part has arrived. They ordered it and it was delivered. The support service just doesn't want to come to my area until late August.

        That leaves me without a functioning machine for over 5 weeks.

        • EightImmortals on 06/08/2022 - 14:23

          So why are not directing your outrage at the repair company? Can you get the part from them and install it yourself?

      • trapper on 08/08/2022 - 19:33

        is the part in stock, does the repairer have time in their schedule

        No, those are not relevant.

        The supplier can always refund or replace if they aren't able to, for whatever reason, repair it within a few days at the most.

  • boomramada on 06/08/2022 - 09:55

    So you bought it on May, was it DOD or how long was it working for?

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:00

      It worked for 2 months, then the pump failed.

      • garetz on 06/08/2022 - 13:44
        -1

        Pump failing can be considered a major fault, it prevents its primary operation, so you should be arguing both those points.

      • boomramada on 06/08/2022 - 22:28

        I don't think its a lemon, you have been using it for 2 months , so it's been broken for 4 weeks ? Waiting for parts sometimes this month. Looks reasonable even its a major fault.

        That's like Dyson fan I bought, dyson said it would take months to fix it due to covid/parts. Lucky I got it from Costco, so it was a simple swap.

  • prodrome on 06/08/2022 - 10:03

    Was it a decent brand or something else?

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:00
      +1

      No, it's not a major brand but it came with a 3 year warranty.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2022 - 11:05

        Make and model?

        • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 11:06
          +1

          Akai 8kg heat pump.

          Tempo is the manufacturer/importer. If I'd bought it from Aldi it'd be a simple swap.

  • netjock on 06/08/2022 - 11:40

    The service agent came out and ordered a part, but claim they can't come back to fix it until August 31

    Welcome to the world of labour + parts (supply chain) shortage.

    Labour shortages won't be fixed until government opens the flood gates to migration. Or inflation makes it so tough that people will re-enter the workforce. Grumblings that even those who could scrap together for an early retirement will have to rejoin the workforce part time. Time will tell.

    Feel for you but good luck.

  • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 13:01
    +2

    I personally think this is pretty poor behaviour from Appliances Online. In my head I'd thought they were slightly better than the bricks and mortar competition but I've quickly discovered they.are.exactly.the.same… I might as well have gone to the Good Guys FFS.

    Let me guess, AO was 'cheaper'?

    Honestly, why do businesses act like this? It's a lemon, you sold a lemon…

    Its not a lemon, it can be fixed easily. There is just a wait for the part and service person to do the job. But that doesn't make it a 'lemon'.

    Have you not heard about the supply chain issues that have been happening? If not, welcome you are now part of it!

    Last week it was eggs, this week it is dryer parts.

    No, it's not a major brand but it came with a 3 year warranty.

    and here is the issue. Next time go a more major brand that has parts stocked.

  • notaccel on 06/08/2022 - 13:56
    +2

    Have you asked if they're able to provide a refurbished replacement or something in the interim?

    You're going to be going around in circles if you keep pushing the major/minor fault reason

    • Niko123456 on 06/08/2022 - 14:10

      I didn't ask specifically. But I am claiming it is a major fault because it doesn't function as a dryer and because it can't be repaired in a reasonable time. (This is a specific dot point in the consumer guarantee). So I am entitled to a refund or replacement. I first asked for a replacement. Now I've decided I don't want anything to do with this company and I want a refund so I can go somewhere else.

      Personally I imagine companies like Amazon or Aldi would just do a simple refund or swap. Companies like Harvey Norman and Appliances Online are weird and stingy.

      In fact, I reckon they should just go "yeh we did sell you something that stopped working within 3 months, let's make it good". But they obviously don't want to do that. Fair enough, but now they have to explain why the ACL doesn't apply to me here.

      • JimmyF on 06/08/2022 - 16:33
        +2

        and because it can't be repaired in a reasonable time. (This is a specific dot point in the consumer guarantee)

        It is a dot point, but what is reasonable to some is unreasonable to others. There is no defined period by the ACCC. So why you think its unreasonable to wait this long, others might not.

        Personally I imagine companies like Amazon or Aldi would just do a simple refund or swap.

        Not a chance Aldi would swap it over. Dryers are 'special' buy items so once sold out, they have no stock to swap it.

        ALDI also have warranty helpline for each product, so you would get a repair

        https://www.aldi.com.au/en/about-aldi/customer-information/m…

        Companies like Harvey Norman and Appliances Online are weird and stingy.

        Not at all, repairs to an item are allowed. You don't get a new dryer because you go all Karen on them like you think. Products breakdown, products are repaired all the time.

        In fact, I reckon they should just go "yeh we did sell you something that stopped working within 3 months, let's make it good". But they obviously don't want to do that. Fair enough, but now they have to explain why the ACL doesn't apply to me here.

        Sounds like AO sent out a repair person straight away. So AO did everything 'right'. Your issue isn't so much with AO it is with the repair time by the 3rd party SPECIALIST company ;)

        I mean you would have been happy if they repaired the unit on the spot right?

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