With energy price at their all time high and might go higher in the future, i am thinking of putting some solar panel on my roof to save on electricity bill. My last bill was just above $800 and my next bill for this winter will be higher than that. We are a Family of 3 adult and 1 todler.
Can people with solar panel share your experience if it is worth for your investment in solar panel? How big of a system do you need to make it worthwhile, any rebate from the Government? I am in Sydney btw. Also which brand of panel and inverter should i go for?
Thanks in advance
Is Getting Solar Worth The Initial Cost?
bargainfinder on 03/08/2022 - 07:20
Comments
Hard to imagine people are still asking this.
Solar panels sized to cover your day time usage pay back in a few years, maybe less, and keep producing power for decades.
Best to go to energymatters.com.au and do some research.Thanks will look in that.
I asked because at the moment FIT is no longer attractive ( 5c or so) and i am not working from home so my day time usage is not much at allDuring the day you run your fridge, a bunch of tiny loads like chargers, and possibly things like washing machines, dryers, dishwashers, hot water services.
If you can use half your power when the sun is up, you can likely save $1000 a year. (based on about 11kWh daily usage at 25c ea). And the size system to do this is only around 3kW.Powering the other half renewably is trickier, but this first bit is a no brainer.
at 25c ea
I'll have one of those kWh's please!
(sorry, just found the "each" amusing - like saying petrol: 65 litres at $2.20 each; instead of $2.20 / 220c per litre, 25c per kWh)
@Chandler: 25c is a bargain for each of my carefully hand crafted kilowatt hours. It costs me more than that for the postage.
Energy australia FIT is roughly 8c, currently with them
Get the biggest system you can. The limiting factors are the size/orientation of your roof and how big an inverter your distributor will allow you to connect to the grid.
Well if you buy the lowest system with the lowest outlay (thanks to government incentives) it pays back very quickly.
But then you're missing out on future gains as it can live on your roof for 20+ years.
If the initial outlay is a concern and the need to see a full return within a short time then a small system would suffice.
If playing the long game then a larger system can also be beneficial, depending on the use profile. If there is no one at home during the day then it may be less beneficial.
Yeah it is best to size your system for your day time usage since the FIT is now down to 5c per KWh in Vic at least.
Will have a look around and see what i can fit on my 3 bedroom house roof
Yes this, get the biggest. Unintuitively, bigger systems actually pay back faster.
Go visit solarquotes.com.au website. Most of your questions will be answered there.
FWIW the most cost effective way to lower your electricity bill is to use less. Your $800 for 3 people seems pretty high. AC is typically the biggest contributor to usage, can you cut back a bit? Putting solar on to ‘save money’ when you could save money for $0 is not the right move. Having said that, combining solar and reduced consumption is likely the best move for future bills.
Thanks will look into it.
I believe so that most of my usage is on the AC and heater. Our heater is on at least 8 hour/ day for the past 3 months and will continued until the weather get warmer. My Family members cannot stand the cold so it is hard to minimise usage on heater.If the AC is reverse cycle it is much cheaper to run than any other type of electric heater.
If you have solar, you can turn on the heating an hour before you get home, warming up the house with free sunshine generated power.Our main one is a Ducted air con with reversed heating ( i think) , we also have a split system in our extended dining, and 2 small fan heater. Thanks for some good tips.
The power may be more expensive after 4pm
Run it from 3pm may be usually cheap depending on when you shoulder rate kicks in. There is normally more power from the sun at 3pm.
Before solar my winter electricity bill was about $1200. After solar our new winter bill was $8. In every other quarter we export enough solar to rack up credit to cover our winter usage. So at just $8 a year, the solar should pay itself off in about 3 years.
Depends on many factors. How big is your system, where you are, how much sun you get, what roof angle.
Simply stating a $figure for a bill doesn’t show enough info.
Our factors are:
-In Canberra
-System is 8kw
-Not sure of pitch, maybe 30 degrees? Also have a large gum which overshadows in the afternoon
-Replaced electric hot water unit with heat pump (biggest reduction in useage)
-Removed gas heater and replaced with ducted reverse cycle (which is currently always on as we are working from home)
Pretty impressive result for you. You must have a good feed in tariff.
hey Klonky, can I ask which retailer gives you such a high FIT ? I tried origin, but am stuck on 8c / kwh
@rooster: With Actew. I asked about getting better prices on the phone and they gave me the 'no longer offered VIP deal' which is 44c FIT. I honestly don't know if it's an error or what but I ain't complaining!
@klonky: 44c FIT? Is this for all exported energy or just for first 5kwH??
When you did make this change?
Thanks.
@Naigrabzo: They put us on the plan at the start of the year. The recent bill says
S201 Feed-in Tariff up to 30kW 394.42 kWh x $-0.457000 $180.25
S201 Feed-in Tariff up to 30kW181.479 kWh x $-0.457000 $82.94@klonky: That's pretty nuts. It costs less to buy a kWh here than it costs you to sell it. I'm wondering if the provider is making any money.
$1200 per qtr ? Damn
Solar isnt wroth for me, my power bill is like $400 per qtr plus I wasn't sure if I'm gonna be living same address for 8 years.Not per qtr, just winter as we have the heater running 24hrs a day.
Damn, i want those feed in tariffs.
ACT progressiveness wins out again.
6.6kw in Perth at 2.5c per kwh i still have a hefty bill.Goes to zero during summer though
You are doing very well yourself with that 44c FIT. I believe that( and many have state here) that FIT in Sydney is a pitty 5c at the moment, heck someone even mentioning it might cost us money in the future to send the power back to grid.
Maybe a similar question, is it worth buying a battery pack to go with the solar?
No, they take a very long time to pay for themselves and only after they are no longer in warranty. Only worthwhile if your area suffers frequent blackouts and you want to be able to keep your fridge and lights going and maybe 1 power point (and you would have to double check with the installer that you will get blackout protection with the battery as that's an extra).
Battery technology is getting better every year though so this could change
I'm not so sure thats the case these days, with the FIT being so low and a lot more electricity being used at night (generally speaking) you are using the electricity when you aren't generating it. With battery costs coming down and FIT no longer covering off time usage, I think the battery value conversation is starting to change. Obviously that's just my view, worth doing your own research.
Yeah and it is interesting that Tesla batteries' warranty is written in number of charge cycles so you can't even just go full tilt with it to try to get your money's worth before the warranty is over. The more you save the faster it wears out
Battery would be a better option now since FIT is only about 5 cents.
Unless you pay an atrocious rate for usage, even if you are drawing the full battery everyday and saving $0.3/kWh, with 10kWh battery you are looking at $1,095 a year saving. A 10kWh battery is around $10k, so 9 years 2 months payback time but then you would be doing 3,345 cycles on the battery already. It will probably crap itself just after the 10 year mark and the warranty expires. So battery is still not worth it unless you got some rebate to reduce outlay.
I heard battery are not economical as they are still expensive, but i will look into this aswell to see if it is worth it
I'm waiting for better battery technology.
Sure, apparently I would come out ahead without the batteries, but I don't want to risk getting something incompatible with my real solution that hopefully isn't too far off.
Yes!!!
If you plan to stay in that same for another 10 years befits moving then yes. If not, no.
Yes it is my house and i am not planning to move
Definitely get solar asap then
This has been thoughts too, I have been planning to move in next few years…10 yrs later…doh!
Yes
Yes
This question is so 2016
Didn't seem that long ago…
Unfortunately i didn't have a house back then
If you own your home and it has suitable roof space, not installing solar is like throwing away money.
Even if you can’t afford the upfront cost of installation, there are very reasonable financing options available.
Of course you need to find a reputable installer and get the right system for your needs, but I’ve helped three family members’ households navigate the whole process through https://www.solarquotes.com.au/ and all of them have had a great result.
It’s really a no brainer, with an awesome return on initial investment.
This is not always true without knowing all the variables. Carefully research first. for example, if your house has a south facing roof, you might as well forget about it etc etc.
Thanks i ll loook into that webpage , what are they getting for FIT ? Are they in Sydney?
Solarquotes is a general advice website that you can also get installer quotes from, from people that are guaranteed not dodgy (there are installers who will do a terrible job for cheap and then dissolve the business before you start having problems so there is no one to go to for resolution).
We're in QLD, but the solarquotes platform is Australia-wide.
They do a good job of keeping the dodgy solar installers away and make it easy to get three quotes from reputable installers local to you.
Our FIT is only 10c at the moment. I keep an eye on the best available deals using https://wattever.com.au/compare-best-electricity-rates/
Download your usage via your energy distributor portal. You can check your usage by hour / half hour blocks. Also downloadable in Excel.
Solar produces between sunrise to sunset so really you are offsetting your usage at those times of the day.
Example. If you find during the day you consume 4kwh per day you might save 25c kwh multiply it by 365 to get a rough saving if you use solar. If you can shift your washing machine and dishwasher during the day (2kwh) then you'll save 6kwh a day etc.
Then it depends on how much you pay for your solar system. All the solar installers will give you very optimistic numbers on cost of power (as in big inflation). You actually need to work it out for yourself.
I didn't know you can do that. I ll ask to see my usage pattern and work out if i use enough power during the day
Share with you what I found. (Melbourne)
I have a 2kw system on the roof (probably 15years+ old).
Using full year of data I can see only see net use during the day (old inverter). Basically solar gets strong around 8am and starts to offset use until around 5pm (yes the sun rises around 7:30 and sets 5:30 but by that time not enough sunlight).
Outside of sunlight hours I use about 4 - 5kwh (higher in winter and less in summer). Night time is going to be energy costs that is non negotiable. So if you deduct that from your bill you could see how much you could save. But there is appliances that draws too much potentially in the one go. Like if you put a 1000w microwave, 1800w air fryer plus air con on at the same time.
I am upgrading to a 6.6kw of panels and 5kw inverter with panels facing east & west which might help extend the times of production a little.
Solar Quotes are a good site to get some non-biased info. They have very good calculatiors that will look at your location etc and also include other useful factors.
They show the decent panel, inverter brands and have lots of no BS info.
They make their money from connecting you for 3 quotes that you are under no obligation to take.
I used them in researching my solar a few years ago now. Went with another supplier as it worked out better for us.Some things to consider:
Manage your demand first. It’s the cheapest power saving you’ll ever get.- Stop draughts from windows, doors, skirtings, architraves.
- change lights to LEDs. There are some good rebates from time to time, maybe more coming
- insulate the living cr@p out of your house.
- manage aspect - eg north facing walls to get winter sun and summer shade using blinds, deciduous plantings etc.
Don’t buy a cheap system from a door to door. Don’t buy anything that isn’t a Tier 1 component.
Get references for the installers. Speak to previous customers if possible.
Over clock your inverter by 10% - add slightly more panels than your inverter is rated at.
Shove as much solar as you can on that roof of yours if you decide to go solar.
Batteries became a good payback at a price point of around $600 ish per KWh. Look at where the energy price is going as this number is probably going up.If you cam find some subsidies it might trim any gap.
Try to move away from gas in the longer term. You’ll dump a service fee and maximise your free energy.
Research and information is free.Good luck!
The Tiers are a bit of a farce tbh.
I have a Seraphim and Growatt system and it has been great.
you can legally overclock an inverter up to 30% and I can't see why you wouldn't.
every installer I talked to said the same and I have a 7.8kw panel array for a 6kw inverter (most common is the 6.6 for 5kw inverter - rounding issues there but still <30%)
whilst you have 130% of the inverter capacity, you also hardly ever get near the inverter limit during actual solar production (let alone the panel limit- given efficiency constraints).
In my case, highest live kw production rate I've seen is 5.8kw for 7.8kw of panels (or about 75% capacity) but effectively perfectly maximising the inverter's capability.
If ever my panels over-produce (<1% of the time in Summer), I assume the excess just earths, like when my production exceeds my local 5kw export cap.Thank you for you detailed post. I ll look into solar quote
I wish I could get it in our small apartment block. Working from home last couple of years and with young kids, utilities have increased substantially. Googling says it's possible, but I assume a lot more costly and I would need to get OC approval.
Feed in tariffs have dropped to bugger all and are dropping further. Even companies like AGL with formerly generous feed in tariffs are now only giving a highish rate for the first 5kWh exported or so then dropping after that. Solar batteries are still uneconomical. So whether it's worth it depends on whether you use a lot of electricity when the sun is out. Most solar power generation is produced during the day when people aren't home. If you're working from home, running a pool pump, running electric central air conditioning, all during daylight then it could make sense.
Impossible to know without knowing and accounting for all variables; of which there are many!
The savings may be slightly less than prior but overall you may find that the payback is about 5-8 years for an optimum system. After 8 years you will get a profit. If the system is not optimum it may be up to 10 years for ROI.
With the current feed-in tariffs, and the threat that feeding power into the grid might COST, rather than deliver revenue, I think many of the assumptions people are making above are no longer valid. The power companies don't want to pay up, and are trying to protect themselves with offensive behaviours.
I think at this point I would only be considering solar PV panels together with batteries - and with the assumption that you avoid pushing power into the grid. Problem is batteries aren't cheap and the payback period is significant. Couple that with crap invertors that die far to fast, and it's not the no brainer it was.
Do the calcs, and add into the mix how you might spend the money to insulate the house properly, or get rid of gas entirely. Half your energy costs are heating and cooling.
If you can use power during the day (fridge, washing machine, dryer, dish washer, hot water) you can easily save $1000 a year with zero export to the grid.
Solar is so cheap you can get very fast payback, and any FIT is a bonus.thanks for a sensible response - you are correct - it isn't a 'no-brainer'
This is a sensible response. It WAS a no brainer few years ago but no longer!!!
If your last quarter bill is $800, yes definitely. Even if you are not at home during the day, turning on the heater during the sun out and dial it down when you are home can still save you money. Most AC nowadays are Wi-fi connected so you can easily do this remotely or via timer.
I spent $9,000 on 10.5kW Q.Cells Q.Peak Duo panel + Fronius inverter, which is on the expensive side (budget but still good system was around $6k), but based on past 9 months I would be saving $1,200/year and that was before the 20% price increase this Monday in NSW.
Does your system use microinverter? I’ve just got a quote for a 9.13kW Q.Peak Duo ML G10 panels (415W panels x22) using Enphase microinverter for $11,000.
No, just a Fronius Inverter.
Installed mine 4 years ago and will just 1.5 more years to payback then i'm set. Worth investing in better systems though. You don't want to be running into issues when it's finally paid for itself. FIT was much better then though so DYOR.
As most have already said it’s definitely worth it if you use your power when the solar panels are working. It also depends on how long you plan to stay at the house but if it’s more than 3 years you should make your money back. If I was looking to buy a house and it didn’t have solar panels I would wonder why and probably not look favourably at it.
The inverter will limit to the maximum permitted production in your area, so have enough panels to drive the inverter to maximum for most of the day.
Example, my 5kw system has 6000 Watts of panels (now 9 years old), and limited to the area of roof available. (24 panels)It may reach the 5kWh limit sometimes, but usually is only 3-4 kw.
Modern panels provide a higher output. So the more the better.Original cost was around $7,000. Have never had a power/energy bill! (Max FIT used to be 18 cents, now only 5)
Oh, that includes electric cooking and replaced the gas hot water to electric (with a time clock to only run between 11 am to 3 pm)
Have received around $2000 refund from power company over this time.
So yes, has been worth it.
2 people now retired.
New rates will be paying around $1.25 per day and 29 cents per kWh (deeply price gouging me, so power company can get $)
So, yes, it can be effective, thermostat settings on AC/heating would make a major difference in power consumption.
eg: set thermostat to 16-18 in winter, 20-23 in summer.Solar is a hard yes. Do it.
100% ROI in under four years (mine was less than two thanks to an excellent deal and rebate at the time).
Add a battery and the ROI is more like 7 - 10 years… really the battery isn't a great investment at the moment. As a general rule, battery ROI is approximately $65/ year per kWh (365 days x 1 kWh x (Peak cost - FIT) x 60% average efficiency).My recommendation is to get a smart meter installed at the same time (not to be confused with your energy providers smart meter that measures your consumption). These are very cheap and basically free to install if it's done when they are installing the solar system. I wish I had installed one since it's now a dedicated call out just for this and I can't quite see the value. They will show you live data on what you're producing, self-consuming and exporting. Very nice to know, although not essentially since the basic premise is straight forward… do things (like using the dishwasher) when the sun is shining on the panels to get the most value from the system :P
example:
https://www.solarchoice.net.au/products/smart-meters/Fronius…If you put a battery in at the same time it will pay itself off eventually, but the battery drags down the ROI significantly.
If you already have Solar and want to add a batter itsSmart meter is about $400 extra during install.
Hey OP, let us know what you find out. I’m looking at getting solar as well.
Solar companies and panel, inverter brand suggestions appreciated.If staying put as you state then certainly worth installing. If there are people home during the day, then even more worthwhile. As for size I would go the maximum you are allowed for your area but not beyond ten to maximise the value of the install costs and to future proof. I say this in case you plan to at some stage in the future to get a battery or maybe an ev/phev motor car. Also as you have ducted air con the extra size will be handy. Other issues to consider are what shading if any is present on your roof. The importance of a good installer and components also is also a key issue. Look for someone who is prepared to come out and check your roof and surrounds. Also if possible look to locate your inverter inside the garage for protection from the elements to some degree.
Get the biggest system you can. See sites like solar quotes.
Short answer yes. But check your house position, do you get full sun, are there buildings or trees that can form shadows….as they can diminish the the effectiveness of solar power generation (unless you get individual inverters).
There’s tonnes of info out there. Do some basic research first. Decide on your ROI timeline to break even. This will factor in the hardware path you choose, ie, good inverter, cheaper panels, middle ground hardware, or high end gear, etc.
The industries come a long way, that said there are still shonky suppliers out there so be careful.
You will pay it off in the long run, but even if you don't or break even, running the aircon all throughout summer 100% guilt free is worth a lot imo.
The biggest difference to our bill was going from electric hot water to heat pump. Our solar is not as efficient as it could be due to our roof angle. Get the largest you can afford.
How do you find using heat pump for hot water? I’m using LPG bottles for hot water and cooktop. Will get the solar panels done first, then look to change the hot water then maybe change the cooktop to induction.
I just got the following quotes from Solar power Nation
Option 1
16 x JA Solar 415w Solar Panels
1 x SAJ 5 kW Single Phase Inverter
Cost $ 3199
Option 2
16 x JA Solar 415w Solar Panels
Growatt 5 kW single phase inverter.
Cost $3299
Option 3
$3599 with Jinko 440W panels with Growatt 5 KW inverter.
Option 4
$3599 with Trina 390W Panels with Growatt 5 kW inverter.
All system will be 6.6 kw, and price including removal of 8 old panels on my roof.Which option is best here? And have anyone deal with solar power nation before?
I think solar (and subsidised battery) was worthy investment before August 2022. I would like emphasise - investment… e.g. if you're getting it for any other reason - no worries.
After August 2022 where the average feed in tariff is around 5c I'm not longer sure if it is greatest idea.
Here are my thoughts (video rant) about that: https://youtu.be/ZOAOldp4EJs
Hope it helps someone…Our electricity bill is about 1200 a year. Is it worth it? We have a small house,limited space for solar.
Maybe get quotes from solar quotes?
Yes it is worth it
Investment can take 3-7+ years to pay off depending on feed-in tariff, electricity usage.
Most people use majority of energy at night, so your local feed-in tariff is your main concern.