![[NSW] Free EV Charging (Save $0.60/kWh) @ Ampol Alexandria Sydney](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/87/714387.jpg?h=f8944a24)
Free until 31/08/2022. Saving 60 cents per kWh. The site has one ABB Terra184 DC fast charger unit which has both a CCS2 and a CHAdeMO port. The chargers are capable of charging up to 150kW using the CCS2 port.
[NSW] Free EV Charging (Save $0.60/kWh) @ Ampol Alexandria Sydney
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Couldn't believe it so I had to look it up and according to wikipedia:
The name is an abbreviation of "CHArge de MOve" (which the organization translates as "charge for moving") and is derived from the Japanese phrase "o CHA deMO ikaga desuka" (おちゃでもいかがですか), translating to English as "How about a cup of tea?", referring to the time it would take to charge a car.
In spite of that, I prefer to think it was named after the virgin vs chad meme.
I actually thought it was French, but there you go. Maybe it was widely adopted by the French? I dunno. I'm confused. Maybe I've learnt something…..thanks for sharing
If a car has a CHAdeMO charging port it can supply power back from the car's battery into the house if there's a blackout, or the electricity network is overloaded and needs help. It is on the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi Outlander. If you have CHAdeMO it is at least technically possible to use your EV battery, which is much larger, as your house battery. I don't think though that you can actually do it in Australia. Yet.
Do they really charge 60 C a kW normally! How many kW to a km for a Tesla. Google says about 13-17 per 100km. So they aren't as cheap as I thought
Depends. You pay more for the faster chargers.
Normal rate for Chargefox just half the charge rate vs a super charger,
Not bad tho, costs about $35ish to fill from 15ish to 100 for the long haul drives
I was thinking the same. Considering FIT is 0-10c/kWh, they're making serious coin
These Fast Chargers won't make a profit for a long long time. So, no they aren't making "serious coin".
Because?
@M00Cow: High initial cost to put the charger into place. I think 3 or 4 cost like a mil for the infrastructure setup
@Sometingwong: I haven't priced these units, but I'd think that a 180kW switching power supply would cost less than 200k. These aren't one-off bespoke items, they're made in relative bulk (as far as industrial toys go anyway). Then you just need a concrete pad and an electrician - nothing unusual though.
@bienvenu: Yep I think you are right. Maintenance seems to be terrible with these things too as I reckon 1 in every 4 chargers I got are broken. Plugshare app reports the same thing. Throw in the ongoing maintenance for a sparky to come out frequently and it adds up. There's a disruption waiting to happen to the infrastructure costs! Hopefully soon
@bienvenu: most smaller sites wont have 180kw worth of extra 3 phase just sitting there ready for a simple wire into a switchboard . Can take fairly significant upgrades. Bigger and / or multiple chargers may need an 11KV feed from utility side, and on site pad mount transformer. Starting to talk big $ then
@majord: Yeah this is a big thing. Most people don't want to drive to an industrial site to charge their car. Lots of areas aren't gonna be able to cope straight away without infrastructure changes. It's not insurmountable though, they have the same issues when replacing a single house with a bunch of apartment blocks
@lancesta: All those things can be solved with one simple thing the people dont want you to know…. money!
@ATangk: Yeah I wish the money was spent on public infrastructure though not private infrastructure.
Regardless you're right it's definitely not insurmountable
@majord: yep, the established petrol stations would not have been designed with this extra amount of power feeding in so can be expensive if extra feed is needed …… its why gov need to incentivise new petrol stations also getting power feeds for EV charging ….
Nah the install and vandalisim maintenance costs are gigantic.
Cheers. That sounds reasonable.
It all depends, you generally charge at home which is a lot cheaper especially if you have solar and you can do about 500km for $15 on average.
Cheers. That's really quite startling.
Obviously cheaper at home and using FIT. Guess using fast chargers really remove any savings.
It doesn't remove them, it just means that for the 5-10% of the time you use them, instead of your electricity being being 10-20% the cost of petrol, it's 60% the cost of petrol.
I get around 115-130w a km
Its not bad still. @60c it'll cost around $35 for a full battery at do atound ~450kms. Charging at home overnight only costs around 22c so around $13 for a full tank. Charging during the day using solar would be almost free as my retailer gives me peanuts for my solar. Now all i need to do is make friends with someome who "bought 5" tesla to see of they would lend me one :-)
plus $11.70 in EV tax for that 450kms if in VIC :(
Yep unfortunately…however hoping albanesy will make that easy for us through the federal court.
@Broden?
Username checks out
Do they really charge 60 C a kW normally! How many kW to a km for a Tesla. Google says about 13-17 per 100km. So they aren't as cheap as I thought
This is only the beginning. EV's and the 'green energy' movement have a cult like status where you are not allowed to ask questions lest you be labelled a heretic…
For public chargers in Victoria I've seen the following $/kW
Free to $0.20 for 7-11kW level 2 fast chargers
Free to $0.40 for level 3 up to 50kW rapid chargers. (Free one are council run….usually are broken down)
$0.40-$0.60 for level 3 up to 150kW for ultra rapid chargers.
Take off 20% when using chargefox if you have RACV insurance
At home my off peak is around $0.10 to use my 7kW wall charger.
I think it's a bit of a nightmare with these different charging ports, it's like USB types all over again, and the average consumer is going to be like, oh darn this place doesn't plug into mine, etc etc
Doesn't cover Lightning connector for Apple cars.
Obligatory XKCD
Cademo does not exist. Neither does type one chargers. Any new car for the last few years has been CCS standard. Tesla has also moved to CCS standard a while back. The charge wars is over for now.
OK - so as long as your EV is less than a few years old, no problem with compatibility.
Too bad if it's older.Not necessarily. If it has CCS or Type 2 it's fine. Basically the only car that wasnt in Australia was the Prius. And that changed a while back. 90% of cars have CCS or have had it for very long.
@Weshouldgetsushi: He probably means the grey import PHEV Prius. I've actually seen one although it's a rare beast.
Cademo does not exist
/laughs in iMiEV
You know that owners of older EVs can just buy a CCS to XXX adaptor right? Early Tesla's are able to use CCS with an adaptor, own a Leaf, oh well…
It's over in the US and some parts of Europe, but a lot of Nissan LEAFs, Outlanders and i-Mievs are still around in Aus and NZ, so they'll still be installing Chademo for a while.
Yes eventually it will probably stop as no new EVs are coming out with Chademo, but there is enough of a base hopefully that they will at least have a couple of stalls that have the Chademo option.
Ah and thats not even as good as the early mobile phone days, where you'd get a new Nokia or Ericsson mobile - ok all fine as I have a Nokia or Ericsson charger and you'd need a completely different proprietry charger that'd only do THAT Nokia. Was an epic PITA for consumers - as even amongst one brand of phone you'd have perhaps half a dozen different connectors on them.
Mini & micro USB was big step up - am sure it was the same for the Apple cultists. ;-) But yeah this vehicle charging thing reminds me of the exact same mess all over again, only consumers lose out.
Luckily you only needed to charge once a week
Luckily you only needed to charge once a week
Too bad if today is that day but the recharge station is occupied…
Why would my own garage be occupied by someone else?
Some people, not you obviously, like to drive to places other than their own home…
Not so bad here only those two most areas have both.
what about carrying plug-adapters then? :-P
Don't these type of deals encourage E waste? People buying Tesla's and just throwing them out when the free charging period expires?
Wait, you’re telling me the batteries in teslas are rechargeable??? I’d been ordering a new one each time!
Is this why whenever anything about electric or hybrid vehicles comes up some guy is always talking about the cost of replacing the batteries
the resale is still good even without the free charging, and people can also charge at home Tesla, free rapid charge is a bonus that shopping centres can use to get shoppers in ….. plug in for free charge and go shopping ……if you had to pay youd still do it as you need to shop anyway, just a convenience …..
we dont have enough EVs for there to be a killer resale market …..still premiums …..
So on average 2kwh for 10km, that $1.20 per 10km, that aren't as green as it seems to be.
On top of dumping already working car(unless your existing car is a total write off), and initial cost of car(pollution of producing the car and battery).
IMO, the best option and greenest is to drive your existing shitbox until it totally dies, then switch, switch midway you just double the waste.
Same goes for any new car purchase right? Studies calculated. Heres a small part from one
"In two years, the EV will have caught up to the used car in terms of ecological footprint. After that, as with new gas cars, an EV surpasses it in efficiency for its entire life cycle."
"Studies calculated. Heres a small part from one"
And this comment tells you everything wrong with the green energy cult. Unnamed "studies" support my opinion etc…
Here's some data from an EV guy, so not Fox News or Satan or whatever: https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk?t=567
I recommend watching the full video, but I've linked the relevant timestamp where he explains that long range EVs have a larger CO2 Footprint than ICE.I'll quote "[EVs] have create more CO2 than a conventional vehicle, [EVs] contribute more to climate change than convention [ICE] vehicles"
I bought an EVcoz I wanted to. Not because I'm saving the planet. I liked it. I bought it. Why is that so hard to understand?
@Sometingwong: Ah so rather than responding on topic, you change the subject because someone claims you're wrong?
How's the copium?
@ctg: Na not changing anything. The topic just always defaults to being green and it being the only reason people get EVs. I love the tech I get in mine. Never thought about the greenness to be honest with you and it wasn't a reason. I got a car because I wanted it. Whether it was an EV or not had nothing to do with my reason as to why i got it. I was tossing up between my EV and a Tucson. Why do I not get asked about being green when it's an ICE? People always want to be on one team
I bought an EVcoz I wanted to. Not because I'm saving the planet. I liked it. I bought it. Why is that so hard to understand?
Perfectly fine. I'm just countering the idea that the simple purchase of an EV will 'save the planet' in some undefinable and indescribable way.
To put this in perspective, assume you buy into the cult of CO2, the transport sector contributes roughly 20% of all CO2, of which about half (10%) is personal transport of which only about half (5%) is suitable for EV replacement. And over the course of the life of a vehicle, the claim is that an EV produces between 15-25% less CO2 than an ICE equivalent.
So put all those numbers together, if the 50% of global vehicles (about 800 million) switch to EV, we'll reduce CO2 by about 1% overall. If every single vehicle was EV (which is impractical) it'd be a 2% reduction.
Now imagine how much it will cost to transition 800 million cars to EV with all the associated infrastructure costs.So yeah, if you prefer an EV that's fine, it's still a mostly free country. But anyone who buys one thinking they are 'saving the planet' simply by buying an EV has been sucked in one of the biggest scams in history.
Right, that's one 'voice' - Using unsourced numbers (Polestar's recent data releases contradict his - https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1630409045-polest…).
And he's not an 'EV guy', he's a respected automotive engineer.
I'm not a huge EV fan (My daily is a twin turbo V8) but this isn't a political debate - Share the numbers and have a realistic conversation. That includes co2 in the build of ICE cars, refining shipping and distribution of oil/fuel etc etc.
Share the numbers and have a realistic conversation. That includes co2 in the build of ICE cars, refining shipping and distribution of oil/fuel etc etc.
I thought I just did. A 'Respected Automotive Engineer' did the numbers and those were his findings.
I'm not against EV's. You sell me one for a competitive price and I'll buy it. But despite billions in research and PR I'm yet to see the value of an $80k car that would limit the amount of driving that I can do compared to what I have now.
You sell me one for a competitive price and I'll buy it.
If you're in Sydney, you can go to the BYD display store,
to see the cheaper BYD electric vehicles [EVs] hitting the markets soon.Buying an EV for the "competitive price" is not the end of costs, unfortunately.
The NSW Premier has already said that in 2-3 years' time,
all EVs will need to pay 2.5-cents per km travelled.(which will probably be enforced via GPS? )
If you're in Sydney, you can go to the BYD display store, to see the cheaper BYD electric vehicles [EVs] hitting the markets soon.
"braked and unbraked towing capacity is 0kg."
WTF? I was going to say that $45k is getting close to competitive, but not being able to tow makes it worth $0 for me.
Buying an EV for the "competitive price" is not the end of costs, unfortunately. The NSW Premier has already said that all EVs will need to pay 2.5-cents per km travelled.
Fuel excise is a huge take for gov revenue, and they aren't going to simply standby and let that walk out the door. I can already hear the cries from EV owners when these charges eventually get bought in.
Thank you for using the term "green energy cult". It makes it really obvious to everyone that you have no interest in a factual discussion with adults.
Thank you for using the term "green energy cult". It makes it really obvious to everyone that you have no interest in a factual discussion with adults.
When you have some facts come back. Until then you offer nothing but chants to your earth god…
switch midway you just double the waste.
Why would people be dumping viable cars? You resell them on the second hand market the same as you do with any cars when you upgrade.
I happen to be in a rich suburb facepalm group, when the fuel price started rising, so many said they will buy a EV to save money and encouraging others to do the same, while condemning ICE.
I was thinking, WTF, if I can afford a new EV, I wouldn't be effing worrying about fuel price.
Rich don’t become rich by splurging.
What you are missing is the vast bulk of ev owners charge at home where it's dirt cheap, and only use these chargers on long haul drives (i.e. a 500+km drive).
You should be thanking these people. They're taking the depreciation hit to help grow the second hand EV market. They're not generating any more waste since it's not like the 3 year old they replace goes to the tip - it goes to someone else.
@chuq: Some one who is also rich, the Porches, Benz etc that are 12 years old is not even in my reach, less the 3 year old they are getting rid off.
Post in your Facepalm group :
The NSW Premier has already said that,
in 2-3 years' time, all EVs will need to pay 2.5-cents per km travelled.
By purchasing new (when you don't yet need to as the car is still working properly etc), you're contributing to waste. Same with anything we buy new when we don't really need it yet.
Why would people be dumping viable cars?
Because the government will make it illegal/unviable to sell them. You think this is a joke but the UK, EU and now ACT are already implementing such policies for the near future.
What policies are making it illegal to sell used ICE vehicles? Share them - It sounds a lot like you're making it up.
What policies are making it illegal to sell used ICE vehicles?
Ah I see you omitted a word from my statement. You'll have to try harder than that kid…
It sounds a lot like…
If it sounds that way it's because you either can't read or can't work out what the words mean. Go back and read the whole sentence then come back…
@1st-Amendment: Don't play semantics - You made a statement and now you're weaselling away from it because you know it's bs
Don't play semantics
Lol, you mean ignore the actual words I used and I should use your edited version of what I said instead? That really is some special kind of thinking right there…
Where does it say they are banning the sale of second hand ICE cars? I can only find the 2035 ban on the sale of new ICE cars and nothing about the second hand market.
But by 2035 people wont want new ICE cars anyway with the advantages of EV's by then.
Where does it say they are banning the sale of second hand ICE cars?
That's not what I said…
So let's think it about what the impact of such a policy a little bit. What do you think happens to the $37 billion dollar auto industry when your entire market is prevented from doing business because of some arbitrary government policy?
But by 2035 people wont want new ICE cars anyway
And what if they do? Why do you think you get to decide what other people want?
@1st-Amendment: Sorry, but you quoted my comment asking why people would be dumping viable second hand cars and you said
"Because the government will make it illegal/unviable to sell them."
So now you are retracting what you said when asked for evidence?
And nobody is preventing the auto industry from doing business, they can keep selling cars indefinitely. And I'm not the one deciding what people want.
So now you are retracting what you said when asked for evidence?
Nope. That reading thing really is a struggle for you isn't it…
@1st-Amendment: Yes, i always struggle to read nonsense from people who have no idea what they are talking about.
On this week's episode of "Fake Problems Nobody Actually Has"…
A Model 3 is closer to 12 kWh/100KM and Model 3 Performance is around 17kWh/100KM. Home charging is 24c / kWh so AVG at 15, so about $3.60 to travel 100KM. When you need fast charging it's $9.00 / 100 KM. For comparison I put $30 into a frugal diesel yesterday and the trip meter increase by 160KM, so $18.75/100KM (Ford Kuga turbo diesel for comparison). Even if you exclusively fast charged it's still half the price of a fairly efficient diesel car.
You cannot compare EV to ICE unless you include an initial cost as well. Even relatively cheap MG ZS EV costs 15k more than MG ZST.
Factor in your depreciation into that too and see which comes out on top.
Ah a few pieces of missing or exaggerated data:
- Diesel is significantly more expensive than Petrol right now, hovering around $2.20 whereas 91 just hit $1.79 near me (Brisbane)
- Efficiency of a Ford Kuga (a midsized suv at least 6 years old) is not comparable to the model 3 (small sedan 1-3 years old)
- Per Drive “…electric sedans and hatchbacks should average between 10kWh/100km and 15kWh/100km to be considered efficient, while SUVs tend to return energy consumption between 17kWh/100km and 22kWh/100km…”
- in which case 17kWh @ $0.60 per kWH is about $10 per 100km (town cycle) but 22kWh per 100km for the highway cycle comes in at $13.20
- a “fuel efficient” car at 7L/100km @ $1.79 per L is $12.53
- The cheapest model 3 available in Australia right now is $62,000 plus on roads, whereas the cheapest Kuga is $11,000
I’m not saying that EVs aren’t the future - I have one myself - but there’s no denying it ain’t a cheap thing to have. Only way to skew the scales in your favour is to have solar panels.
Only way to skew the scales in your favour is to have solar panels.
Which is also a bit of a false economy, since every kW you put in your car is one less you can use on your home and therefore have to pay retail prices for.
And just wait until the cost of the infra required to support 20 million EVs is passed back to us in higher taxes and electricity prices. Your kids won't believe you when you tell them how cheaply you used to be able to own and run a car 'back in your day'…
@1st-Amendment: That's why you get a Zappi and only use excess electrons into the car: https://myenergi.com.au/
The NSW Premier has already said that,
in 2-3 years' time, all EVs will need to pay 2.5-cents per km travelled.
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A Chad Emo port huh