Should/Can I Force Landlord/Agent to Give Me a Carspace Accidentally Promised in Our Lease?

Lalkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 20:52
Last edited 10/07/2022 - 20:53

Help me OzBargain:

  • I am originally from Melbourne moving to Sydney to rent for a new job. I have signed a lease and paid first fortnights rent, but have yet to move/drive up due to logistics
  • The lease we have locked in (signed and bond/first period's rent paid) stipulates the provision of one car space. Originally in email communications it was mentioned that there was no car space available - we called the building manager and he confirmed that the space for our apartment is already rented out to someone else / in use according to another agreement
  • I've never rented before, but from what I can tell the lease is the final word on the terms and conditions of the rental
  • Given the oversight, I'm planning to call the agent next week and basically say we want the car space or at least to knock off the typical value of a car space in Sydney CBD (which is substantial) off the rent
  • Is this worth doing? Will I be building bad blood in our relationship with the landlord/agent unnecessarily early on into the lease?

Poll Options

  • 187
    Demand the car space - it's in the lease and this is the agent's mistake
  • 13
    Ask for money back on rent - it's in the lease and this is the agent's mistake
  • 7
    Don't demand anything - it will create friction with agent/landlord early on in the tenancy
  • 3
    Other
Home & Garden

Comments

  • Hybroid on 10/07/2022 - 20:56
    +12

    Contract says you're entitled to a car parking space. That's what you both signed. Demand it.

    For reference: you'll get tons of little notes in your mailbox offering renting parking spots, they're about $60/week in Sydney CBD towers.

    • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:12

      We've locked in one year's worth in the agreement - is there any chance the landlord can reneg if we push for this? I can't seem to find anything online but that would be super inconvenient/costly for us to have to find another place

      • Hybroid on 10/07/2022 - 21:29
        +4

        I am not a lawyer but I don't believe so if you've signed and paid deposit. Maybe only bring it up after you get the keys and move in. Maybe record it as part of the condition report assessment so it's on formal file too.

        Strong chance of not getting a renewal or periodic lease once the year is up though.

      • bobbified on 10/07/2022 - 21:42
        +2

        If you push them too hard, they might suddenly give you notice to terminate. I'm not sure what reasons are allowed for NSW, but don't put it past the agents to do something dodgey!

        • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:46

          Can you talk about what this looks like from where you are from?

          • bobbified on 10/07/2022 - 22:15
            -2

            @alkalinity: I'm not a real estate agent myself, but my mates are.

            Just try not to piss them off and ruin the relationship. Remember that when things in the place screwup or something breaks, you're going to be relying on them - probably for a whole year at least. They hold more power than you, as the tenant. haha

            • modrzew on 11/07/2022 - 00:16
              +6

              @bobbified: They also have legal obligations to fix the things that break or screw up. They're not a friend or family, they provide a service.

              Moreover, assuming OP signed a fixed term lease (which they did from what it sounds like), the landlord/agent won't be able to give them notice to terminate during that time no matter how hard they push for lower rent or a carspace. After that fixed term period expires, yeah, it might be likely — but not before.

              @alkalinity, you can do a search of places to rent in your area, both with and without parking spaces. Those without will be cheaper, I assume around $50-60 per week. If your rent for your new place is closer to the higher end, then push the landlord and the agent hard. Either for the car space you're paying for or for rent reduction.

              • bobbified on 11/07/2022 - 10:16
                +1

                @modrzew:

                … the landlord/agent won't be able to give them notice to terminate during that time

                Are you suggesting that real estate agents are honest people who would never lie to a tribunal with an excuse such as financial hardship to try and get a termination order?

                And even if they don't go that far, there's still a million and one ways real estate agents can make things painful for the tenant. As evidenced by a lot of stories about bad agents, some are like that without even trying! Imagine how they might be if they really wanted to be painful…

                • modrzew on 11/07/2022 - 11:10
                  +1

                  @bobbified: Then you're suggesting that most of real estate agents are also competent and not lazy. Those qualities would be necessary in order to get a termination order through the tribunal ;)

                  I think a lot of horror stories stem from tenants not knowing their legal rights and not pushing back when agents do some bullshit. We're called a nanny state for a reason, and the tenancy law is very specific about what agents can and can't do, especially when it comes to tenant-agent interactions.

                  Moreover, there are sections in the legislation which are not clearly defined on purpose (eg. "reasonably clean", "peaceful enjoyment") which leaves it up to tribunals and courts to interpret that. There was a thread a few days ago, I think on /r/australia or another subreddit, where a landlord expressed their astonishment when their tenants cleaned the rental place sparkling clean just for the periodic inspection. Others shared horror stories in the comments about landlords/agents asking tenants to eg. wipe dust from ceiling fans, which I think is going way too far.

                  • bobbified on 11/07/2022 - 11:14
                    -1

                    @modrzew:

                    Then you're suggesting that most of real estate agents are also competent and not lazy.

                    They are indeed! (NOT!) haha.

                    In short, OP is knowingly trying to take advantage of a genuine mistake. If he gets his way, someone has to wear the cost - either the agent or the landlord. Something underhanded like that is going to piss people off.

      • SlickMick on 11/07/2022 - 09:29
        +2

        I think your agreement is fine, just give them your bank account for the car park rental to go to. That's now your carpark and thus your rental.

        We bought a property that had a horse agistment. It wasn't mentioned in the contract, so I thought the horse would disappear when we moved in . It was still there, so when the owner came to visit, I gave him my bank account details.
        I have no idea whether the seller intended to continue to collect the agistment or the horse owner thought he'd get a freebie with the owner gone, but just saying the money is now mine fixed the problem.

        edit. I missed that part where they said the sale was without carpark. Now I don't know whether you thought you were paying for a car park or not. I retract my comment. Doesn't seem related to my situation anymore.

    • AustriaBargain on 10/07/2022 - 22:01

      $60 a week is crazy cheap. You can't even park a car five days a week for that.

      • Hybroid on 10/07/2022 - 22:10

        Indeed because there's tons of spaces available. The catch is you already need to be a tenant and have access cards for both building and car park already.

  • zonra on 10/07/2022 - 21:00

    Will I be building bad blood in our relationship with the landlord/agent unnecessarily early on into the lease?

    100%.

    Is this worth doing?

    That depends on the rental market like in your area.
    Will you struggle to find alternative rental or will your (ex) landlord struggle to sign on new tenants?

    • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:07
      +1

      Can they kick us out over this though? We've signed on for 1 yr fixed term and already paid a bunch

      • modrzew on 11/07/2022 - 00:09
        +4

        No, they cannot.

        There's a defined list of reasons why a tenancy agreement can be terminated by the landlord. These are: sale of premises, non-payment of rent, breach of the agreement, death of the tenant, or premises becoming unhabitable. Anything else is not a valid ground for giving you termination notice. More info: https://www.tenants.org.au/factsheet-10-landlord-ends-agreem…

        So you can argue as much as you want about the car park, rent, or tell the REA they suck — maybe they won't be nice to you as well, but they won't be able to kick you out for at least a year.

  • askme69 on 10/07/2022 - 21:02
    +8

    OPTION 1 and Then 2 if 1 fails

  • BandB on 10/07/2022 - 21:22
    +7

    Would the landlord force you to abide by a clause in the lease? I think you know the answer.

  • k-rokfm on 10/07/2022 - 21:30
    +2

    Originally in email communications it was mentioned that there was no car space available

    So surely you already paid accordingly?

    • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:45

      We have paid initial rents according to the signed lease - not sure what you mean here

      • k-rokfm on 10/07/2022 - 21:57
        +6

        Surely you incorporated the not having a car space into the price you paid? If you weren’t happy for the price without a car space you wouldn’t have accepted it

  • iamherenow on 10/07/2022 - 21:32
    -6

    No. Conditions were made clear via email. Stop trying to take advantage of a mistake. Then you might even begin to feel like a nice person.

    • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:44

      Lmao I don't care about being nice - I care about potential repercussions

      • iamherenow on 10/07/2022 - 21:47
        +1

        Of course there are repercussions. If you don't play nicely, do you think they will?

        • alkalinity on 10/07/2022 - 21:48
          -1

          Can you name some? That's what I'm trying to elicit in this thread

          • iamherenow on 10/07/2022 - 21:59
            +1

            @alkalinity: Termination of lease for whatever reason they can come up with. They will find a way.

  • MS Paint on 10/07/2022 - 21:49
    -1

    If there is physically no space for you to park your car how do you expect to suddenly have one available.

    You took on the lease knowing full well there was no car space included and agreed to the price. It's an administrative error. Too err is human.

    If I was going to approach the REA about this matter I would not be aggressive about it. The agent may feel bad about it and at least look at options.

    • AustriaBargain on 10/07/2022 - 22:02
      +3

      Landlord offered the lease with a car space when they should have known full well they didn't have a space to offer.

      • k-rokfm on 10/07/2022 - 22:04
        +1

        When was it offered with a Carpark? Please point out where it was

        • Quantumcat on 10/07/2022 - 22:09
          +5

          When it was put in the lease documents that the landlord had to sign.

          • k-rokfm on 10/07/2022 - 22:11
            +2

            @Quantumcat:

            Originally in email communications it was mentioned that there was no car space available

            It was never offered with a car space.

            • jacross on 11/07/2022 - 08:19
              +3

              @k-rokfm: So the tension here is that the general principle in contracts law is that the final agreement between the parties is the final agreement and as such the emails don't matter. The final lease represents the finalised offer for acceptance. It could be the case that despite the emails the parties negotiated that away. This is why the finalised contract terms are so important.

              To understand if the carpark is legally enforceable I'd have to remind myself of any exceptions to that general principle and how they arise and whether anything in the relevant statutes for NSW for residential tenancy changes that. Not going to do that.

  • thatonethere on 10/07/2022 - 22:01

    It is unlikely they can magic a car space where one doesn't exist. Perhaps you can cancel the lease as they can't supply what is being contracted.

    • k-rokfm on 10/07/2022 - 22:05

      If OP wanted a car space then they would have applied for places with a carpark

  • Christown on 10/07/2022 - 22:04

    Hard to tell the timeline of things from your story, but if you were told there was no car space available, then why you would sign the lease anyway is beyond me. If it happened the other way around then it's a different story.

    You can't demand they give it to you if it's not physically possible.

    Best outcome will probably be to terminate the lease and find a new apartment (with a car space) to rent. Though it may not be an easy task.

    • resubaehtgnolhcs on 10/07/2022 - 22:20
      +10

      I think OP is trying to see if he can take advantage of a mistake on the lease

      • Caped Baldy on 11/07/2022 - 01:27
        +3

        I think they should do whatever to stuff over the REA

  • Eeples on 11/07/2022 - 01:35

    OP, did you notice that the lease stipulated a car space before you signed it?

    If the lease had said $200 less rent per week…. Would you have signed that lease?

  • [Deactivated] on 11/07/2022 - 03:21
    +1

    i would follow through with your plan to either ask for the space or knock off how much a car space like it would cost from your rent, but yes, it will create bad blood and they almost certainly won't renew your lease, they will also be on your case and look for any minor violations to string you up with, so you'll have to be careful.

    the contract is in your favour, don't let them bully you into submission.

    pretty poor form to rent an apartment without a car space because they're greedy, so go for it.

  • Grant1ey on 11/07/2022 - 07:01
    +12

    It does not hurt to ask the landlord politely not the REA if possible?
    Maybe the landlord (owner) does not know that the car space is being rented out separately by REA (fraud) hence that is why it on the lease the landlord signed with you.

    • alkalinity on 11/07/2022 - 07:21
      +1

      I like this approach - thanks

      • k-rokfm on 13/07/2022 - 23:12

        Update pls?

  • jebdra on 11/07/2022 - 07:24
    +6

    I wouldn't call anyone. Do it in writing.

    That way you've got a record if necessary. It's also too easy to get provoked on the phone and say something you regret later.

  • sheamas88 on 11/07/2022 - 08:01

    If it's in the lease then you are entitled to the car space, even if they previously told you a car space would not be included. They can only terminate the lease for specific reasons, and you enforcing the terms of the lease is not one of them.

    That said, if you are gunna play things to the letter-of-the-law expect them to do the same, so make sure you fully understand all your obligations as a tenant and stick to them hard so they have no grounds to come back at you. I'd be prepared for any retribution on the periodic inspections, exit conditions, etc and so be fully prepared to have evidence for anything they might try to claim.

    Yes, you might burn a bridge here with the agent/landlord by pushing for it knowing that it was never intended to be included, so really comes down to whether you are willing to create bad-blood here. Personally I'd let them out of the car space since you already were expecting it to not have one, but make sure to emphasis that you're only doing this for establishing a rapport. Also don't let them talk you into signing a new lease without the car park, if they do push you for anything during your tenancy then you always have the car space to negotiate with

  • pangwen on 11/07/2022 - 08:23
    +2

    I see a lot of posts are focusing on the fact that there are no spots within the building the OP is renting in, but why does that have to be a limitation?

    The landlord could plausibly have obtained access to a dedicated car park in another building nearby that they could offer as part of this lease? I can’t recall the exact wording from my last lease, but it was possible for an offered car park to be not within the building that the apartment was in. To be fair, this was in a complex of multiple buildings under the same body corp, but there should not be a restriction on where a linked car park in the lease is located.

    If the landlord hasn’t got one in the building, then pushing the issue may get you a car park in a nearby location (of course the landlord would be out of pocket by the car park costs if they hadn’t factored this in originally).

  • Euphemistic on 11/07/2022 - 08:30

    Do you need a car space? Or just now want one because you discovered a typo in the lease and want to be a jerk? Did you deliberately sign the lease with the car space or only find out afterwards?

    If you signed it knowing there was an error in the lease surely that would be some sort of deceptive practice. Despite it being a legal contract, you can’t go enforcing clauses that are obviously in error.

    Surely the agent will have your email trial stating there’s no space as well and advise you there’s an error.

  • singlemalt72 on 11/07/2022 - 09:08
    +6

    Why be a a$$ for what was probably an oversight by the office girl who forgot to remove that clause and was not properly vetted before it was sent to you. You got what you paid for.

    Can real estate agents be a$$holes when it comes to contracts, well yes, but so far they appear to have been accommodating to you and made a mistake, Have a laugh about tit, perhaps joke with the real estate that as you wont push them for provision of a car space you expect special treatment at the end of lease.

    Be the better person.

    • Euphemistic on 11/07/2022 - 09:16
      +4

      Agree. OP sounds very much “BuT Ah KnOw mAh RiGhtZ”.

  • Porker on 11/07/2022 - 10:07

    They emailed you and said that there was no car park with the rental - how did you reply?

    How was the part about the 'no car park' written in the email? Eg. Please find a copy of the rental agreement, while it does state that there is provision of car park, as per this email agreement, that clause/condition is not applicable, etc etc.

    There's not enough information in the original post to say with certainty that you are right to demand what is written in the rental agreement. The wording of the 'email' is not presented in your post and any information, agreements or other included in it.

  • netjock on 11/07/2022 - 10:58
    +1

    Originally in email communications it was mentioned that there was no car space available

    That is written notice.

    Given the oversight

    If you caught it then don't report it and trying to take advantage of it. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to really stand up.

    Lazy on the person drawing up the contract (I assume it is standard format and people just fill in the gaps)

    • ginormousgiraffe on 11/07/2022 - 14:09
      +2

      That is written notice.

      The contract supersedes this unless stated I would imagine.

      Lazy on the person drawing up the contract (I assume it is standard format and people just fill in the gaps)

      Too bad.

      If they promised a car spot in the email but didn't include it in the contract what do you think would happen? The LL would say too bad the contract is the contract.

      • netjock on 11/07/2022 - 14:27
        +4

        The contract supersedes this unless stated I would imagine.

        Most likely not. Don't forget there is contract law, law of precedents and common law.

        It isn't like:

        1. OP wasn't told at the beginning (most likely acknowledged)
        2. Stuff like his have happened, I bet people have written down things by mistake (OP signing it knowing there is a genuine mistake without pointing it out is not an excuse you can take advantage of it)
        3. Is the amount OP paying expected to have a parking space
        4. Does the landlord have a parking space available to give and was it offered? If landlord had a vacant parking space that was discussed, OP not taken up but ended up in the contract then OP might get his way. If landlord knew it is rented out and notified OP per 1 then it isn't like a deliberate bait and switch in the contract

        I am sure the RE or landlord would tell OP it is an honest mistake, they've been notified. If they want to argue it then get legal representation. Expect every decent lawyer to laugh at OP. You'll find a dodgy one that will take your money and it will still go no where.

        • Porker on 11/07/2022 - 17:44
          +1

          OP read this response ^^^

          I was eluding to this within my response in that the contract doesn't remove all other relevant items regarding the car park. In particular, they have documented informing you that the lease is without car space.

  • brad1-8tsi on 11/07/2022 - 14:54
    +1

    They give you a car space or a rent reduction equivalent to what your car space is being rented at.

    Where I live that's $50-$70/week

  • dbglt on 11/07/2022 - 19:04
    -1

    Agree. Lease is law. Screw the agent. They take every opportunity to screw, amazing to have the ability to do them back. Do be prepared to move out after the 1 year is up though!

  • k-rokfm on 11/07/2022 - 20:43

    So how’d you go OP??

  • lilkid28 on 11/07/2022 - 21:50
    +1

    RE Agent here. Used to be an employee for an RE Agency and have made this mistake before. And yes tenant brought it up after, thankfully the tenant was nice and understanding. I'm not sure what would happened if things escalated to Tribunal. That said, the advertising doesn't include a car space.

    Anyway just want to say yes some agents are A-holes , but more often than not, leasing/property managers jobs aren't easy, often underpaid for what we have to do. If the agent made an honest mistake, then I hope you let him/her go. Otherwise, they probably might end up having to pay this $60p/w out of pocket (1 of the worst case scenario)

  • Essem on 13/07/2022 - 20:38

    A “mistake” in a contract can make the whole contract voidable OR just the clause containing the clause void. As the OP knew there was no car park would be likely that clause would be voided. OP has suffered no loss or damages.

  • INTP0151 on 15/07/2022 - 22:59

    How greedy do you have to be to lease out the space and property separately, landlords make my blood boil

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