Your Circuit Breakers May Not Work Anymore. Killing Someone or Worse. RCBO Type AC No Good

jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 16:33
Last edited 07/07/2022 - 16:41 by 1 other user

Shocked to find this out when buying WIFI energy meters the other day.
Older homes fitted with RCBO's are TYPE AC. That will trip in a millisecond in a short circuit by measuring the difference in AC current.

Today with so many DC voltage appliances in the home running like Laptops Routers Phone Chargers Tv's and all. It is converting to a DC signal that old Breakers can't detect if there's a fault in the line.
You could be getting electrocuted and might not stop until your missus shuts down her computer turns off the TV NTD NAS router unplugs the phones on charge switches off all the LED lights etc

To check what type breaker you have look up here
From the Clipsal website all new homes have to be fitted with TYPE A from 2023 that can detect both AC and DC faults.

TLDR
Old type AC circuit breakers may not detect if your smart Tv is electrocuting you.
New type A breakers could save your life that detect both AC and DC voltage

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Mechz on 07/07/2022 - 16:38
    +12

    Gotta die some time I guess.

  • AndyC1 on 07/07/2022 - 16:40
    +7

    No RCD will detect all types of electrocution scenarios.

    I am not aware of any RCD that protects you from getting electrocuted if a secondary tap on a transformer has a high enough voltage to cause at last 40ma to flow directly through the heart. Luckily now days most electronics do not use transformers, apart from stereo amplifiers or receivers.

    BTW The trip times can be up to 40 milliseconds.

    • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 16:49
      -2

      Think they mean it changes the EMF in the 240V.with all the DC powered devices

      • mapax on 07/07/2022 - 16:52

        That’s what the orgone is for…

      • AndyC1 on 07/07/2022 - 17:07
        +1

        Got to love the buzz words.

        DC powered devices are powered from a power supply that has changed allot over the years and now days Laptops & USB devices and most small devices use switch mode based power supplies and they have shrunk allot from 30 years ago. A badly designed switch mode power supply can inject harmonics into the mains, but usually the voltage is not very high and they dissipate before they reach the street.

        • prodrome on 07/07/2022 - 18:45

          The bigger risk these days would have to be dodgy lithium batteries and chargers starting a fire.

          • AndyC1 on 07/07/2022 - 19:22
            +2

            @prodrome: In a few years it will be EV cars charging at home that go up in smoke.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/07/2022 - 16:44
    +5

    Ever heard of punctuation?

      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 07/07/2022 - 17:07
        +2

        What a strange reply, bought up in shoebox or hole in the road?

        • randomusername2017 on 07/07/2022 - 19:12
          +1

          Bought and sold into slavery and brought up on the plantation.

        • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 22:02
          -3

          Obviously you've hit a lot of holes in the road. Or so you think

  • apple2016 on 07/07/2022 - 16:45
    +2

    DC voltage appliances in the home running like Laptops Routers Phone Chargers Tv's and all

    all these appliances have the ac->dc conversion internally. also 12-24 v wont hurt you.

    • AndyC1 on 07/07/2022 - 17:11
      +1

      If the very cheap chinese badly designed swithc mode power supplies in the devices malfunctions then they can put 240V out instead. This has occurred and will continue to occur as the cheap USB power adapters are cheap and are sometimes really designed for 110V, but work at 240v for a while before something goes wrong.

      There are web sites that have reviews on bad USB power supplies and some of them are down right designed by people who must think 240v cannot kill you….

      • mskeggs on 07/07/2022 - 21:10
        +1

        But then it isn't a low voltage DC earthing, it is 240v AC, so wouldn't have the issue op is talking about.
        Not that they aren't dangerous.

      • LFO on 08/07/2022 - 10:26

        If the very cheap chinese badly designed swithc mode power supplies

        … bought in Australia ????
        Talk to the seller not the maker.

  • mapax on 07/07/2022 - 16:46

    Ok

  • SBOB on 07/07/2022 - 16:51
    +3

    Old type AC circuit breakers may not detect if your smart Tv is electrocuting you

    its for things like EV charging, VSD's within washing machines etc that consume higher power while containing significant DC voltage devices

    https://electricalconnection.com.au/staying-current-rcd-chan…

    good video if you want to nerd out/learn more
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qX89cPGgp4&feature=emb_imp_…

    • mskeggs on 07/07/2022 - 21:11
      +6

      Thank you. I was trying to think of a situation with high voltage DC in the home where this could be an issue.

      It's as if Clipsal might have an interest in selling a heap of replacement RCDs.

      • SBOB on 07/07/2022 - 21:45
        +2

        No way…Schneider owned businesses are purely in it for bettering their customers solution offerings and the high level of customer service they offer :)

        • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 22:13
          -3

          They don't deal with consumers they deal with government legislation. If anything insurance companies would have helped press this as they're the one's that have to pay out on a claim

          • SBOB on 08/07/2022 - 09:47

            @jizmo:

            They don't deal with consumers they deal with government legislation.

            Clearly you don't interact with Schneider if you actually think this.
            And i said 'customers' not consumers

            Regardless of the Schneider 'silo', they all have end consumers whether that's integrators, electricians, solution providers, network or solution architects etc
            Schneider are essentially a product/solutions company(either by their own product or most likely via acquisition) … they have customers

        • MrFrugalSpend on 07/07/2022 - 22:18

          No way…Schneider owned businesses are purely in it for bettering their customers solution offerings and the high level of customer service they offer :)

          Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha… ha….. ha….

          LI E IS ON

          wait … where'd they put the F? oh that's right, they needed it with the U

      • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 21:45
        -1

        Well I'm not pretending to be a sparkie or a buzz word maker uppera or live in a shoe box using my mums computer with multi pull acounts going on. But I can tell you this…. Aus gov are onto it and any good sparkie would already know about it.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a895sGgcg5I

  • whatwasherproblem on 07/07/2022 - 17:07
    +8

    Your Circuit Breakers May Not Work Anymore. Killing Someone or Worse.

    As far as circuit breakers go I wouldn't have thought you could get much worse than death. What's the "or" in this situation, Hermione?

    • jv on 07/07/2022 - 17:10
      +8

      I wouldn't have thought you could get much worse than death.

      Have you lived in Victoria that last couple of years?

      • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 20:07
        +2

        Some here have lost their humor.. A fate worse than death

    • try2bhelpful on 08/07/2022 - 01:29

      Ending up in an afterlife with a bunch of sanctimonious religious types.

    • slowmo on 08/07/2022 - 10:37
      +1

      i suppose the worst part is being alive and still having to pay taxes until one dies of natural death?

  • abb on 07/07/2022 - 17:38
    +8

    You're conflating a few different things here.

    Type A circuit breakers will protect against DC offset faults caused by, for example, solar panels.

    It's nothing to do with the DC power supply in your phone charger or PC (which is extra-low voltage and galvanically isolated from the mains, so won't hurt you)

    • Euphemistic on 07/07/2022 - 18:26
      +3

      That makes more sense. I can’t picture how a 240v to ELV DC adaptor could fail in a way that would be registered differently by a circuit breaker after all they are all 240v AC powered (via a GPO)

      It does make sense that they’d want to protect from solar panel failures.

  • Headless on 07/07/2022 - 17:53
    +1

    "Forbidden

    You don't have permission to access this resource."

    The government is saying my life is now in danger, but wont let me see why - aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh ruuuuuuunnn

    • whatwasherproblem on 07/07/2022 - 17:57

      Good catch, I didn't even notice that! How does OP have access to it if the rest of us can't access the page?

    • SBOB on 07/07/2022 - 18:24
      +2

      Just refresh the page by enter key on the url field, got it displaying for me (rather than click through from here or page f5 refresh)

      • Headless on 07/07/2022 - 18:32
        +3

        Yeah, how weird the direct link doesn't work - anyways this is for Victoria, so I'm safe in WA

  • Eatslikeacat on 07/07/2022 - 18:43
    +3

    I have a 10kW solar system that feeds 400V DC into my high voltage LG solar battery. It has knobs, lights, and safety devices but I leave it to the professionals. What was more scary for me was when I first moved in the safety switches at the switchboard were not working. For all of them when I pressed the test button it wouldn't switch off but instead rattled trying to switch off. I got an electrician to tear out the switchboard and put in new everything and check out the house wiring. I use daylight savings time to press the test button on each safety switch to make sure it's still working. No point having safety switches if they're not tested regularly.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 07/07/2022 - 22:27

      I use daylight savings time to press the test button on each safety switch to make sure it's still working.

      What? as in the transition days are your reminder?
      Had to think about that - at first my head was going to you use the extra evening hours with the sun up after work to go to daily tests for fun at the switchboard..!

  • jizmo on 07/07/2022 - 18:45

    Best explanation in 3 minutes https://youtu.be/5t3rhtyOpuY

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 08/07/2022 - 08:39

    Oh honey…. It must be tough.

  • highon2str on 08/07/2022 - 09:57

    On a bit of a side note here, I have a 40kV SPD installed in my breaker box which protects the house. Question is: Does this also protect my solar inverter? I have an older Fronius Galvo 3.0 which I've been told conflicting info from various people/sparkies. A Fronius tech rep has told me that there is no in-built SPD (one needs to be retrofitted), however, a local sparky said there was no need to install one. I've had the inverter replaced due to burn marks on the mainboard and a popped cap of some sort, I wasn't sure if this was due to a lightning strike.

    Does the SPD in my breaker box protect the inverter or should I get one fitted to the inverter itself?

  • LFO on 08/07/2022 - 10:28
    +3

    Solution: always wear a reflective vest when approaching or touching an object where electricity might be present.

    • Eatslikeacat on 08/07/2022 - 12:48

      I don't understand. A reflective vest can't possibly protect you from electrocution if you approach or touch an object. Isn't the right thing to turn off all breakers, including solar breakers, put tape on those breakers with bold signs that work is being done, and some breakers even have a little hole where you can insert a rod to prevent idiots from turning them on whilst people are working on the wires, and let the people in the house/building know that work is being done?

      • LFO on 09/07/2022 - 16:15

        Sarcasms kills … like speed … and electricity ;-p

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