Should I Help out My Tenants?

Divad on 20/06/2022 - 00:12
Last edited 21/06/2022 - 14:35

Hi Ozbargainers,

Please help me settle an argument with my SO.

We are currently renting out my apartment to two overseas students who have recently arrived in Sydney. This week they complained that the fluorescent ceiling lights in their bedrooms are too dim and have asked me to replace them with LED downlight fixtures. In my opinion, the lights are fine (no complaints from previous tenants) and if anything they only need to be replaced with new fluorescent tubes. All of which can be easily done with a quick visit to Bunnings.

Now here is where I got annoyed. The two tenants and my own real estate agent insist that I pay for an electrician / handyman to install new LED downlights at a quote of $260.

To me this is insane and a HUGE waste of money…BUT my partner (who was once an overseas student herself) is much more empathetic, explaining that they are new to living abroad and by themselves. She thinks that I should either help them out by buying new fluorescent light bulbs and change it for them or otherwise she is willing to pay for the handyman to install new LED lights.

What do you guys think? Please vote below and let me hear your opinions.

UPDATE: Hi all, I thought I might give an update for closure. I didn't expect there to be so many responses! I ended running to Bunnings and changing the lights for our tenants. I know I'm not legally obligated but I wanted to help them out just this once as they seem like decent people. I ended up replacing the fluorescence tubes with LED tubes (no new fittings required). They were much brighter which addressed their problem. Thanks Ozbargain!

Poll Options

  • 466
    Tell them to sort it out. Either pay for it themselves or go to Bunnings!
  • 258
    Be a nice landlord and go replace the lightbulbs for them!
  • 95
    Fire my real estate agent
  • 79
    You should pay the $260 to install new LED lights for your tenants
Home & Garden

Comments

      • tonka on 21/06/2022 - 23:18

        This is Ozbargain…………… and you're sledging cheapskates?

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 22/06/2022 - 13:53

      your mate is probably generating some bad juju for himself. I like your attitude towards your tenants. good on you.

  • Dreamcast on 20/06/2022 - 15:28
    +2

    Tell them they're dreaming.

    • burningrage on 20/06/2022 - 17:22

      Username checks out!

      Btw, what is SO mean? I know maybe OP refers to Other Half (OH) but what is SO?

      • Dreamcast on 20/06/2022 - 19:50

        Significant Other.

  • cupcake on 20/06/2022 - 16:26
    +3

    For the 10 years that I rented about 20 years ago, I had to buy my own light bulbs as a tenant…

    • Mugsy on 21/06/2022 - 00:04
      +2

      We need more tenants like you.

      I was the same when I rented. And then I became a landlord and was perplexed at how many people are either too lazy or too incompetent to change their own lightbulbs. I've had a tenant call out a plumber on weekend rates when their hair blocked the shower drain… plumber's charges included his labour and call out plus a bottle of Draino! Also, the stories I can tell about tenants who can't understand that mould grows when they keep the bathroom window closed and thus poorly vented. I tell them that and they don't listen. MouldMen come to treat the mould and tell them that too and they might listen (it's quite hit and miss).

      And that's why I don't hesitate to keep my rent at the going market rates at every rent review. I need to recoup my costs for dealing with stupid decisions like the above.

      • sheepzpal on 21/06/2022 - 08:41
        +1

        Some owners are lazy too man. Doesn't take much to upgrade to LED and help the environment

      • cupcake on 23/06/2022 - 14:39

        Mugsy, there are some very lazy tenants out there for sure… as well as incompetent! Agree with you there.
        I was very lucky my rent did not go up in the 7 years that I was in one unit so I never complained. The real estate agent also never did yearly inspections after the first year because he could see I was sooo clean and tidy.
        The mould thing seems to be a big issue with rentals, which is why some landlords tamper with the bathroom windows so that they cannot be closed… (hint hint).

    • Poor Ass on 22/06/2022 - 19:24

      Yes as you need to return it close to original condition at lease end

      First set of light bulbs are included any subsequent ones tenants to replace

  • IM-Cheap on 20/06/2022 - 16:40
    +1

    I'd ask agent how much more rent I could get in the future for the modification. Lighting can be a good investment.

    If I make them I'm normally raising the rent next opportunity. Repairs and upkeep fair call but improvements I look to recouping the cost somehow, especially for a new tennant. I do make the occassional good will mod if it cost me <$300 and the tennant's been >1yr.

  • Aneurism on 20/06/2022 - 17:19
    +2

    Are there any statewide plans that might switch out older downlights for newer LED ones ?

  • jasiano on 20/06/2022 - 17:24
    +3

    as an actual landlord of a rental property who has this sort of thing come up all the time…. it depends on how much the new lights actually cost.

    If it's say just 10 or 20 buck, then I wouldn't pay the $260 to have a sparky change it for them (unless you have so much taxable income that such a deduction is going to help you…).
    either ask them to buy/change themselves and offer to cover the material cost, or just buy and replace it yourself.

    most of my tenants will change the lights themselves when they go, I only get a sparky involved if the wiring or switch etc is stuffed.

  • tonka on 20/06/2022 - 18:12

    It does sound like you will need repairs to your ceiling after this as well, which could push the cost up a lot.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 18:58
    +1

    Those old tube lights can be pretty horrible to sit under for hours. You don't realise unless it's you living there. I rent and the kitchen here had one. The clear cover broke from age so it was replaced with one of the same form factor, but in LED. It's SO bright, brighter even than the daylight streaming in the window.

    Personally I'd do the same as was done here… buy an LED of the SAME FORM FACTOR, turn off the mains, disconnect the two wires, wrap them separately with electric tape, remove the old light fitting, install the new one with the wires poking through loose and THEN get the electrician in to just screw the two wires in.

    I would NOT be putting downlights in, or next they'll be complaining they we're not fitted in the right position, there's shadows, will move their desk so the lights aren't over their desk anymore etc. Plus you'd have to patch and paint the ceiling. Get the same/similar form factor in LED though, means it's an easy swap. You compromise, you expect them/SO to compromise as well. Oh and the old kitchen light that was replaced here was more in the dining area than the kitchen… so when I stood facing into the kitchen, it was all in shadows. Even though the new light is nearly the same size and form factor and in the same position, the entire kitchen is bright with no shadows anymore. So while they/SO may whinge to begin with, if more light is their real reason for wanting it replaced, they'll soon see they have ample light.

  • INTP0151 on 20/06/2022 - 19:16
    +3

    You have flouro's in a bedroom? I've been a sparky for 20 years and I have never seen flouro's in a bedroom. I bet you wouldn't have them in YOUR bedroom

    • tonka on 20/06/2022 - 19:56
      +2

      So serious question though. Isn't part of the reason for that because flouro's give off stacks of cool bright light and not the soft lighting people usually prefer in a bedroom. I get that flouros in a bedroom is unusual, I don't get that it causes less light than is normal for there. Flouros are pretty normal for offices, schools libraries etc where people would study.

  • stunspore on 20/06/2022 - 20:02
    +1

    Your wife complained. Take this seriously.

  • FourSquareMan on 20/06/2022 - 20:11
    +2

    Honestly , who has fluorescent lights these days yet alone in the bedroom.
    They’re disgusting and create an atmosphere of the 1950’s if you like that sort of thing.
    The tenants will treat the property as the same respect as you treat them.

    Not only doing something good for your tenants .. for the planet as well
    Not only is it tax deductible it will enhance the re-letting or resale value of your home .. just that little bit.

    • UFO on 21/06/2022 - 12:39
      -1

      Rubbish. The tenants inspected the property did they not?
      They could have NOT signed the lease if they weren't happy with the lights in the bedroom, but let me guess… the rental market is very tight and they didn't want to miss out.

      If they aren't happy, they can leave… as is their right.
      But every single commenter here knows they wont.

      CHANGE NOTHING OP!!

  • Steptoe on 20/06/2022 - 21:02

    @OP
    Fluoro Tubes or Compact Fluros Bulbs?

  • berry580 on 20/06/2022 - 21:24
    +3

    Landlord has ZERO obligation to comply. RE are a bunch of idiots.

    If tenants need more light, buy a lamp with their own money

  • clover on 20/06/2022 - 21:35

    Agree. I hate those fluorescent lights. Please replace them. I think tenants requests are very reasonable. Since they are international students, they might not know there are cheaper alternatives, ie straight swap to LED without changing the fixtures.

  • ribze1 on 20/06/2022 - 22:54

    I lived in a not so great unit for 2.5 years and did not once ask the LL for a thing. In hindsight it was super hot in summer so air con in the bedroom would have been a lifesaver.

    • sheepzpal on 21/06/2022 - 08:44

      Might as well ask then….

  • Guerilla89 on 20/06/2022 - 23:24
    +1

    Get these and ask them if they can install them themselves: https://www.bunnings.com.au/philips-20w-2000lm-cool-daylight…

    If they can't be bothered to install them it isn't really a problem for them, it only annoys them enough to make it someone elses problem. If they fail to install it themselves suggest they one of these things and just stick it to their bed head and that you'll get the circular LED installed the next time your sparky has to go through for mandatory smoke detector inspections.
    https://www.bunnings.com.au/lytworx-night-light-dimmer-switc…
    https://www.bunnings.com.au/lytworx-led-flip-switch_p0013960

  • [Deactivated] on 21/06/2022 - 01:47

    Not a chance, they can buy lamps. Fluoros in a bedroom sounds horrible though.

  • whatthecrappin on 21/06/2022 - 06:40

    been there done that. hold your ground as it will only get worse as they push the boundaries.

    my RE conceded on some items and agreed, the place was leased like that so if they want changes, they can pay for it.

    On some items I agreed to pay half, and on big ticket items, they pay the lot up front and I'll take 200 out of the rent until paid

  • Dack Smith on 21/06/2022 - 07:44
    -2

    Get rid of them already, you have no obligation to overseas demands.

    Is your partner Australian?

  • MrThing on 21/06/2022 - 08:16
    +2

    The light functions as a light yes?

    Tell them to buy a lamp

    If they are international students, you can be assured they are not short of a quid or two

    Also get a new REA, they work for your interests not the tenant

  • jli789 on 21/06/2022 - 08:40
    +4

    Fire the agent, stuff this trivial is already causing concern, what happens when there is real trouble ?

  • cnrmlj on 21/06/2022 - 10:50
    +1

    Replace them with new led down lights. Better for your tenants in the short term and better for you in the long run as there will be less maintenance as they don’t need to replaced.

  • xavster on 21/06/2022 - 11:45
    +2

    Hi,

    I am a property investor and have owned dozens of properties in NSW.

    Surprisingly this is a very COMMON request from international students. They spend a lot of time in their room, especially those from Asia. Most prefer cool daylight to warm white.

    I've upgraded ALL the lighting in my properties over the years to tri-color oyster LED lights. They are cheap, bright, and have 3 switchable colour settings. Only annoying thing about oyster lights is the little bugs that sometimes find their way into them and die in there.

    tl;dr: Just upgrade the lights and claim it on tax, tradies are hard to get right now, do try and get the electrician do other electrical work while they're there, i.e. add GPOs, inspect wiring etc.

  • Flying Ace on 21/06/2022 - 11:52

    Wow the lack of empathy here is quite something.

    This is really a small cost in the grand scheme of things, and would make their lives more comfortable. There are plenty of shitty landlords around, don't be one of them.

    • jaimex2 on 22/06/2022 - 12:15
      +2

      It's not about being a shitty landlord or not.

      Stick the rules and obligations. They're there to protect both sides.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:30

      Can I have $300 please?

      This is really a small cost in the grand scheme of things, and would make my life more comfortable. There are plenty of shitty people around, don't be one of them.

  • Deals For Days on 21/06/2022 - 11:55
    +3

    Fluorescent lighting in a bedroom is horrid. As others have said, tenants maybe didn't realise this upon inspection.

    I'd do the right thing and change to Led bulbs at elast

  • UFO on 21/06/2022 - 12:35
    -1

    The existing lights are fit for purpose… that is, suitable lighting for a bedroom.

    These were also the lights that were present during their inspection of the property.

    Politely decline to do it for them on those grounds, and more forcefully explain this very important distinction to your chosen real estate agent.
    They are YOUR representative, not some neutral party. YOU pay for their services and their advice, and they should not be advocating on the tenants behalf… especially in this instance where you are certainly not required to improve lighting for the tenants.

    Very poor advice from your real estate agent, and I would strongly consider looking for alternative management.

    Your wife/partner is entitled to her opinion, but in this instance she is wrong to suggest that almost $300 out of your pocket is fair expense.

    All these other commenters saying "lack of empathy" and "do the right thing" would be the first to scream if $300 was taken out of their bank account unauthorised.
    DO NOT change the lights at your cost!

    • 2expensive on 21/06/2022 - 14:20
      -1

      Listen to this right here OP. As a landlord your job is to offer zero added value and leach off the people looking for a place to live. Also get rid of the agent, any agent worth their salt would ignore at least the first 5 tenant requests and delay any subsequent repair request by at least 2 weeks hoping the tenants life gets miserable enough to fix it themselves.

      A good practice I've found is having a 3 strike policy. For every 3 times you are contacted on behalf of the tenant you must raise rent by $20. Your time as a landlord is precious and shouldn't be wasted on mundane requests.

      • UFO on 21/06/2022 - 15:58
        -1

        That's the way… overreact and go to the furthermost extreme you can possibly think of. People will definitely take you seriously and engage in adult conversation with you. I trust this works well for you in real life?

        I especially love how you're phrased your entire premise around 'these poor people the greedy hungry landlord is taking advantage of'… like the landlord is running a charity or something. And your pathetic advice to get rid of "any agent worth their salt"? Talk about a pointless tangent there! I strongly suggest any landlord who doesn't have a good agent to GO FIND A GOOD AGENT… not get rid of all agents.

        Anyway, it's been fun wasting my time with you. Good luck in your awesome life choices :).

        Oh… and yes, definitely raise the rent, but not by $20. The MARKET RENT has gone up much more than that. And with costs in dealing with pathetic renters only increasing, ditch the losers and get better tenants.

        • 2expensive on 21/06/2022 - 16:26
          +1

          overreact and go to the furthermost extreme

          Sounds like you don't believe in my advice. You probably only have like 2 investment properties and have much to learn. Sucks to be poor but if you work hard enough to reach where I am you will understand it's necessary to do zero work and ignore all responsibilities to be an effective landlord.

          greedy hungry landlord is taking advantage

          You would NEVER hear me slander landlords. They are the pillars of modern society. I challenge you to name one function of society that wouldn't come to a halt without the thankless work of landlords everywhere. I find it disgusting that people expect landlords to sacrifice themselves so that rich tenants get richer. You wouldn't expect a Rolex dealer to make concessions for customers why should landlords?

      • UltimateAI on 21/06/2022 - 23:05
        -1

        Worst advice ever. It's a deductible upgrade that will add value to the property. The upgrade will make it easier to lease.
        Moving beyond a simple light fitting, but as a SMART rule, you upgrade where possible, each $1 of upgrades (added wisely) should easily double the return (that is excluding any depreciation). ie: Spend 20k on Kitchen upgrade, should add 40k value to the property, building equity.

        • mightyfes on 22/06/2022 - 16:59

          why are you both getting trolled? is it your first time on the internet?

        • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:12

          Spend 20k on a kitchen and get 40k value?!? Yeah nah… it doesn't work like that champ.
          Source: I was a Property Valuer.

          Spending money making a property "easier to lease" in such a tight rental market, is a waste of money.

          All these sorry sacks with bleeding hearts won't be so generous in a few years when their interest rates double.

          Absolute madness throwing money away on perfectly adequate lighting. Adding value my foot. I've never gone into a house and valued it lower because the bedroom lights were fluro instead of LED. Fluro oyster lights are a dime a dozen with certain aged properties. It might assist with marketability, but being able to command additional rent or value? No chance in hell.

          If you've got $2k to waste on replacing lights that don't need replacing, I'd suggest you put that towards air-con or a new dishwasher, or an induction stove.
          THAT will not only improve marketability, but will also improve value.

          All these renters negging me doesn't change reality :).

          • UltimateAI on 23/06/2022 - 06:56

            @UFO: Your missing the point as I said beyond a light fitting. If you spend 20k on say a kitchen upgrade, you then get the property re-evaluated. If spent right that should add 40k value, bank will easily then lend 50% of that without question. If you have a few properties a very quick way to fast track equity and purchase more
            Property. That’s before any rent increases and attracting better tenants.
            The money has to be spent lightly your claim of 2k on a light just isn’t prudent.
            But nothing wrong with fishing in the bottom and attacking bottom feeders. As I say each to their own,

  • CauseNEffect on 21/06/2022 - 12:52

    Flouros are on the way out, go LED its better the environment and makes your tenants happy. Pay up, don't cheap out.

  • Zenyatta on 21/06/2022 - 13:36

    Fluorescent lights in any room are horrible. In the bedroom that would create a terrible, cold atmosphere. As a tenant if I couldn't get the landlord to upgrade the lighting I'd rather just have a warm LED uplight. I feel sorry for your tenants. If you think there's any possibility that future you could benefit from upgraded LED lighting, maybe consider making the change.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:29
      -1

      I feel sorry for the tenants too.

      They'll be getting rental increases shortly for being too demanding!

  • screensaver on 21/06/2022 - 13:41

    Let there be light

  • baldur on 21/06/2022 - 22:08

    Do any of the real estate agents give a care about their jobs and responsibilities? I asked my agent how can I get a new swipe card and she said she doesn't know. Lol. You have only one job.

  • Lukas on 22/06/2022 - 00:10

    Comments on this are unreal… Tennant is responsible for replacing consumables (i.e globes in rentals) in NSW. Minimum requirement is only 1 working bulp per light fixture even if it has 2 spots as well. Lighting is such a personal choice and is only relevant to what a tennant intends to use a room for. In the US ceiling light fixtures are not even standard for many rentals places in common rooms - tennants bring floor lamps.

    • FoxJump on 22/06/2022 - 07:27
      +2

      Wow. The US sucks

      • Yola on 23/06/2022 - 03:42
        +1

        In some countries in Europe houses for rent/purchase do not come with kitchens.

        • tonka on 23/06/2022 - 17:45

          I'm on-board with this. I don't think a fully equipped kitchen is efficient anymore. Plug in appliances allow you to customise according to your lifestyle. I prefer an airfryer to an oven and a plug in hotplate so I can regain bench space when I don't need it. And so much cheaper to replace when faulty, don't need a tradie. For a tenanted property if it's destroyed through neglect, no big deal.

  • FoxJump on 22/06/2022 - 07:26

    The first thing I do when moving in to a new place is to replace all the crappy super dim lights everyone seems to be okay living with

    I like it bright kind daytime

  • Soldier on 22/06/2022 - 10:10

    maybe not "legally obliged" but when SO tells you to do something or pay the $260 do you really want to hear about it the next time you do something wrong in exactly 4 years, 22 days, 7 hours and 38 seconds?

  • Hangryuman on 22/06/2022 - 10:58

    interesting - my short answer for this to tenants would have been - if you want a study light buy yourself a desk lamp from KMart for $11 - https://www.google.com/shopping/product/5438222732836931738 - and knock yourself out for your choice of LED bulb from the soupermarket

    ceiling lights are not intended for task lighting - task lighting is typically closer to the work desk

    the only justification for changing the ceiling lights I can see was if it was rented fully furnished, and there was some expectation that everything would be provided - even then, yeah nah I don't think so.

    circular fluoros - are the work of the devil - fail early and often - little plastic connectors break and can't be bought - new bulbs are disproportionately expensive - you can get swap-in replacement circular LED bulbs but they're like $31 each - https://www.bunnings.com.au/philips-20w-2000lm-cool-daylight… - so generally a WOFTAM

    brighter lights - look for the number of lumens (light output) - a straight 120cm single fluoro 36W tube might put out 3350 lumens - LED tubes are often less e.g. 1600 lm https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/philips-led-tube… - tho I did pick up a bargain discounted 44W LED batten for our kitchen ceiling which puts out a blaze of glory and is useful for inspecting for specks of dust at the back of cupboards or behind the fridge.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:27
      -1

      but but but… now you're just being a mean greedy landlord! How dare you not pay to fix lights that don't need fixing!
      You've got stacks of cash… just throw it away on replacing something that works. It's only $300!

      (I bet these bleeding hearts would scream for justice if their bank took $300 out of their bank account for no reason though!)

  • TigerWoops on 22/06/2022 - 11:12

    WELL DONE!!!

  • jaimex2 on 22/06/2022 - 12:06
    +1

    Good work. You've now set a precedent, enjoy the rest of the complaints.

    Your REA should have sand bagged this one, not sure why you're paying them.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:25

      100% this!

      His agent is working for the tenant and giving the guy paying his fees bad advice.

  • toasty on 22/06/2022 - 21:21

    Most of the comments here reinforce my low opinion of landlords and real estate agents formed over a lifetime of renting.

    I have always paid my rent on time and taken great care of any property I’ve rented. Many years ago I found it much easier to arrange reasonable and mutually agreeable improvements by negotiation, but over the last 20 years there has been a steady decline to the point where you are lucky if they even do the bare minimum.

    These days real estate agencies seem to churn through staff weekly, each one less capable than the next.

    I no longer hesitate to bring legal pressure to bear if a real estate agent or landlord is not fully complying with their responsibilities under legislation. Thankfully there are great resources available through the various tenants associations and other services which offer support to win a matter before a tribunal when necessary.

    • tonka on 22/06/2022 - 23:31

      A friend of mine was quoted $40k to renovate an average bathroom recently. If a nice kitchen and bathroom cost say $30k each, and people seem to think a lifespan of 15 years is reasonable now, add the cost of money and you need $100 a week just cover the depreciation on those 2 rooms. Rates and strata need another $100 a week. Flooring, blinds and painting are costing a fortune now too. Not to mention periodical plumbing and electrical, smoke alarm maintenance etc. So cost to landlord is maybe $250 a week before thinking about the giant cost of the investment plus stamp duty, insurance, real estate costs. I'm not saying reasonable stuff shouldn't be done. But the level of maintenance also needs to be in proportion to the rent return or it's just not worth it.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:19
      +1

      "I have always paid my rent on time and taken great care of the property"

      BECAUSE YOU ARE REQUIRED TO, NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE A NICE GUY!

      You can have low opinions of landlords all you like, but the sad fact is THEY hold all the cards. It's THEIR house!
      I fully support legal action against a landlord not complying with their legal obligations… but you're jumping from one thing to another entirely.

      Changing lights that work perfectly fine and are fit for the purpose designed, is a waste of money.
      "Being nice" but making a bad financial decision is the first step to investment failure.

      The rental market has never been tighter. If you don't like a place because the lights don't suit your needs, don't rent it!
      Good luck finding another place, no hard feelings.

      But all these commenters suggesting the landlord should do it "to be nice" have no clue on reality.
      In a couple years when interest rates are double what they are now, lets see how nice and generous these friendly landlords will be…. and how confident these demanding renters will be also, that rents don't jump through the roof. What's the bet they shut their traps and go buy a lamp to not draw attention to themselves. Oh yes, facts are facts!

      NOT YOUR HOUSE, play nice. Don't like it, get out… there are 20 other applicants that will happily play nice in your place.
      By all means ask for repairs and hold landlords to account.
      But asking them to pay for stuff that doesn't need replacing??? NOPE, you'd be mad to annoy a landlord in these times. Shut it and make do, or get a lamp.

  • Yola on 23/06/2022 - 03:58
    +1

    I once had a young PM insist that I install a fan above the stove where none had ever existed before because the tenants had asked for one. There was a hood above the oven that routed vapors to the ceiling but it had never had nor was designed to have a fan. Also about 1 foot from the stove was a window that could be opened a few centimeters or fully. This was a 1950's Housing Commission property with an original kitchen. I would not have minded making improvements but the property needs a total renovation or more likely torn down. I suspect that the young agent was a renter and sympathetic to the tenants and oblivious to the cost of retrofitting a fan where none had ever existed and not interested in the fact that the tenants had no right to such.

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