A Message from RBA: “Whatever It Takes”

Wow, I did not see that coming so soon – it turns out that our Dr. Lowe speaks “Draghi”.

‘We’ll do what’s necessary’: RBA’s Lowe flags 7 per cent inflation, more rate hikes

For all cat-video fans, “Draghi” is a dialect spoken by absolutely desperate and “put-into-a-corner” central bankers who must protect their credibility at all costs (costs are usually paid by loyal subjects citizens) and who have their focus on one and one target only (usually a mitigation strategy for some very obvious risk that have totally missed).

I will skip through all analysis and give you my opinion as a Bottom-line:

  • Next two hikes will be 50 bps or more (65 or even 100 is very possible as RBA do not provide clear forward guidance as Fed and like to surprise markets)
  • Commercial banks will go into panic mode and will tighten their credit policies
  • Spreads will widen dramatically (put simply, we might see mortgages with 200-300 bps apart because of the credit scores)
  • Business and Consumer confidence will drop substantially (already in progress)
  • Unemployment will go up (will show in the 2022Q3 reading)
  • We will officially be in a recession in late 2022-early 2023

As all of this will not happen in vacuum, there will an interesting side-effect – liquidity will be quickly sucked out from capital markets and with TFF repayments scheduled for 2023-2024, banks will go to savers which will further tighten the amount of money shovelled around.

Don’t kid yourselves – our fearless doctor has already told you in “Draghi” that he is willing to break this economy to slow down the inflation and he will.

So here is a most important question of the year 2022:

Have you sold all your investment properties yet?

Before you throw that rotten tomato at me, remember that I have given you my opinion on Crypto and I hope you listened. Ah, whatever, keep them coming

Looks like the original title was not appropriate (was changed), RBA staff are reading the forums?

Poll Options

  • 42
    Yes, I have sold
  • 18
    Thinking about selling
  • 250
    Property prices always go up

Comments

  • +25

    get used to this saying from some unelected leader

    "you'll own nothing, and be happy"

    • +30

      To be fair, the majority of people are embracing Netflix, Spotify, Xbox gold pass etc. rather than own a shelf full of old discs.

      If we had tenant protections like they do in Germany, I probably wouldńt own a house, and there are an increasing number of people who goget or Uber rather than owning a car.

      I already rent my holiday accommodation rather than owning a holiday house.

      I don’t think it is the ownership that brings the happiness, so much as the availability of what you want.
      And if not owning the item means less hassle with storage, maintenance, admin etc, people will prefer it.

      Having a mate with a boat is much preferable for most people than having a boat!

      • +1

        "it's not the ownership, so much as the availability of what you want"
        …this!

      • The halarious thing about this news article is that Dr Lowe is suggesting inflation will hit 7% by Deecmber.

        Obviousaly he doesnt do his own grocery shopping otherwise he would know that inflation is actually well over 10% already…………as many of you highly intelligent and well informed OBs already know.

        Or maybe Dr Lowe was referring to December 2021?????

        • +6

          Mate, inflation is not only groceries. The singular number is a cumulation of inflation across multiple sectors weighted according to average expenditure for the entire population.

        • CPI has many components but the MAIN point is that it is calculated with a lag - this is a LAGGING indicator
          This month's CPI tells yo what happened 2 months ago (you also need to collect and process the data)
          Hence our courageous doctor predicts future about the past.

      • +6

        What OB has not explained is the RBAs mission to stamp out inflation and how they will do this.

        Whilst interest rates remain UNDER the inflation rate they encourage more spending and more debt.
        Thats because in REAL terms interest rates are actually NEGATIVE.

        You derive REAL interest rates by decudcting the inflation rate from the interest rate.

        Hence it is the RBAs mission to lift interest rates ABOVE THE INFLATON RATE (to become Positive Real rates) in order to make it unattractive to borrow/spend/invest and more attractive to save.

        I will let you work out what that might be but its a moving target because as inflation goes up so must interest rates.
        And at present the RBA are still trying to catch up with inflation and will be until the end of this year.
        As OP suggested, the only way to catch up and overtake inflation is with 0.75% - 1.0% rate hikes each month.

        • +3

          Yes thank you - this ^^^ - glad someone pointed that out.
          The RBA is not some big mean dictator with control who is raising rates for the sake of it - they just adjust to do what they have to do to match the reality of inflation control. If they didn't, it would be far worse.

          They haven't caused the inflation, they've actually kept rates lower than inflation but need to catch up

          It's unfortunate they didn't do it sooner - cause they were confused by the impact of the pandemic and what to do with the two speed economy that resulted.

        • There is more than just inflation in the RBA models.
          In short - they are targeting NEUTRAL rate
          I explained neutral rate here - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/694076

          Given that inflation rate is CUMULATIVE and not absolute, it is unlikely to stay at 7 for a long period or we are toast… literally AU will become Argentina

    • +9

      get two more jobs

      former deputy PM

  • +6

    Once you read it on these boards then too late! You'll be someone at some BBQ that freaked out and cashed out just before Russia-Ukraine conflict to lose it all on something else 5 years down the track.

    Investment property isn't going to be the problem as interest is tax deductible (it becomes a cash flow problem).

    Your place of primary residence is the problem because it might be over capitalized and non tax deductible.

    • Well, you still have time, especially in the regions.
      Also, the post has details that are not from a newspaper (yet)

      You've got time.

      • Well, you still have time, especially in the regions.

        Sell out and then where else you going to live? On a house boat?

        Even if capital city house prices fall 20% the what you sell for in the regions might not get you back into the cities.

        Don't forget higher interest rates means higher interest payments on your affordability. If you can afford $2k when rates are at 2%, you can still only afford $2k when rates are 4%. The capital value might come down but there is no new money. May seem like a saving but it really isn't.

        • The above is for INVESTMENT.
          Are you living in your investment property?

          There are plenty of OTHER markets around.

          • @ALesha77: As I said. Investment property no problems because interest is tax deductible. It becomes a cash flow problem.

            • @netjock: I don't see any benefits from being tax deductible when you lost quarter of leveraged principle and your cash-flow suffered due to increased debt servicing. But that's just me, I am looking for the next best performing thing.

      • Why for? Agent fees, conveyancing, looking for a rental property (fun & ez amiright?), movers, rent, looking for a house, inspections (hello hidden problems), conveyancing, stamp duty and movers.

        What percentage discount on your buy-back do you need in order for all of that to be worth it? 15%? 20%? You can guarantee that the next property will be better or need less maintenance?

        • Same as above.
          Also how much of a loss of your principal will you be willing to lose to save on commission?
          20%, 30%?

          • @ALesha77: I know a few people who sold out at start of pandemic then house prices went up. In theory also a loss on principal. What happens if the economy tanks at these interest rates and literally the reserve bank reverses course?

            • @netjock: That was an opportunity cost. If he invested in stock and got out in time - he was much better off but we would not know, would we?

              Regarding "timing the market" - just consider the head-winds and tail-winds for an asset calls. This is a basic minimum to evaluate your investment thesis.

              Real Estate prices have enjoyed a number of tail-winds in the past 2 years that almost NEVER come together.
              And such convergence is unlikely to repeat EVER again.

              Why wouldn't you consider that we might not see these levels of crazy price exuberance for a very long time?
              Getting into a 20-40% drawdown for a few years is not a joke.

              So, I am puzzled with those who say "I know that prices might fall but I do not want to sell" - what is the bloody point to be long an asset that you have low confidence in?

              • +1

                @ALesha77:

                convergence is unlikely to repeat EVER again

                Sounds like never say never.

                Unfortunately it looks like your mind is made up. I'd thought you would have better use of your outsized profits than spending your time here arguing with us living pay check to pay check because obviously we can't time the market.

          • @ALesha77: I'm up almost 40% on my property already so it is very unlikely that my principal would be hit.

            I understand the spirit of your question though, so I'll reply in good faith despite you completely ignoring my question.

            To avoid the hassle of rent hunting, house hunting, renting and transaction costs for 18 months, I'd say I would easily stomach a 25% loss on current value. Probably 30% for 30-36 months.

            I live in a good tightly held location. It will definitely correct 15% I give you there but the odds of a 25% drop in 18 months is 40/60 so I won't be making that bet. Especially since my wife hates the hassle immensely more than I do.

  • +11

    It's foolish to sell hard assets this late in the game.

    HODL or regret it later.

    • +19

      Or HODL and regret it later.

      Both options are possible

      • +3

        I've never met anyone that have bought pristine hard assets and regretted #HODL through short-term pain for long-term gain.

        There have been plenty of people with no conviction buying and quickly selling in fear of the pain. They end up buying at a higher price later or live the rest of their life salty.

        • +6

          bought pristine hard assets

          Considering you've illustrated to not know what a hard asset is, or able to provide examples of 'pristine' ones, of course you've never met anyone that's regretted buying them

        • Cmon, rekt.
          "A pristine hard asset" is a government bond definition as being pristine collateral.
          Everything else has a risk premium.

        • i think you are missing the point here, if it was CRYPTO or stocks the HODL would stick, when its a investment property/s with monthly repayments, its a different story..

          • @striker5950: Stonks are liquid assets with close to zero costs to buy and sell.

            Real estate on the other hand can cost +5.0% in taxes and fees to buy and another +3.0% to sell. That is an 8.0% savings just to #HODL.

            There is also the capital loss from the buy price - the selling price which could be -x% or -xx%.

            • @rektrading: all facts except a big assumption on your part is that the real estate investment property is completely paid off, most real estate investors use the rental income as the majority of the loan payment per month. if the payments go up by a considerable margin the investor might be forced to sell at a loss. and if they bought at peak market with forecast of %20 decrease in Sydney house prices (accuracy is debatable) they stand to make a big loss.

          • @striker5950: Then they bought the wrong property. People who buy property that has to be negative geared are not investors, they're gamblers. ;-D

            • @[Deactivated]: you talking to me about positive geared in australia? bro where?? we are not in usa where you can buy a house for 100k and rent it out for 2k a month

              • @striker5950: I can't answer this fully in just a few lines but of course we can. Many such properties sell before they're even listed because proactive investors have already contacted REAs, made it clear they're serious, explained exactly what they're looking for, etc. Like what? Many turn negative geared into positive geared simply by adding value - like knocking down the interior walls of an older house (which often have larger bedrooms) to add more bedrooms in areas where homes don't have that many. Because it's a "scarce resource" they can charge more. Or build a carport, update the kitchen and bathroom, get a solar grant, install a good aircon unit, etc - and again charge more rent because it's "more" than other properties in the area.

                Also, subdividing blocks, selling off the back half, putting that money back into the loan to increase equity (or use it as a deposit to buy another property - then rinse and repeat) while still getting the same rent as before for the house on the front half. So many different things. And of course -ve geared properties can become +ve geared simply by increasing the deposit.

                Most people struggling to save huge deposits for Syd/Mel investment property would do better splitting that deposit to buy a few/several much cheaper non-capital city properties, make them positive geared by putting down at least 20% (which wipes the requirement for landlord insurance which only protects the lender anyway), and the incoming rent pays off the loan/s. Look for ways to add value to in turn justify increasing rents. Not only do they now have more income than before, they have equity which they can show lenders to get more loan approvals to buy more.

                More advanced is making the loan interest-only for X years. As long as the rent covers the repayments, again it frees up money for value-enhancing improvements, to increase the rent, to buy more properties, etc and once the market goes up (obviously wouldn't do this one right now)… those properties have gained equity because they're worth more - so refinance the interest-only loan over to a variable loan and start paying down the capital, or again use the increase in equity to buy more, etc.

                The majority of property "investors" buy one property then stop, because they lock themselves into a too expensive market, and are unwilling to think outside the box, refuse to invest in their own education by reading books and attending property investing seminars, etc.

                Even without these "more advanced" techniques I still see +ve geared in rural areas. Better to own a few rural properties bringing in $30/wk profit each than working like a dog til you drop to pay the $2000/m it still costs you after receiving its rent, on a single multimillion one in Syd.

                Even if that's where most people stopped (at a few rural properties), did nothing else, in twenty years those properties have increased in value, have probably repaid most of their loan/s, meaning most of the rent is clear profit. So they could sell off one or two, pay off what's left of the other loans, then retire fully funded in a cheap Asian country.

              • @striker5950:

                you talking to me about positive geared in australia? bro where??

                Very easy to do in Perth.

                • @trapper: Liverpool area, Sydney if you buy carefully. Can still get a older 2 bed unit walking distance to Station and Westfield for around $300K. Rent around $280pw, Strata/rates/utilities around $85pw. The last interest increase pushes it to a break even.
                  Otherwise look at 2 bed villas all across regional Australia.

    • +7

      You think Bitcoin is a hard asset

        • +16

          The hard part refers to tangible.

        • -1

          Bitcoin is tangible, 1 coin can buy a car now, years back probably worth a mc happy meal.

    • +3

      For Crypto - yes, it's late (but I warned you much earlier about crypto)

      For properties - it barely started, liquidity is still there for now.

    • HODL ?

      • +2

        hold on for dear life

        • thanks hammie

    • Ever heard of bag holding?

      • +1

        Prime real estate only goes up over the long term.

        • Not when inflation is around.
          Purchasing power reduced by either inflation or interest rates

          • @ALesha77: Inflation has always been here.

            It just happens to be a bigger problem in the past 2Y because of 💵 🖨️.

            • @rektrading: Rekt, then really read the MESSAGE that central banks have put out - "there will be NO bailing out". Not until inflation comes down substantially and that would not happen while governments splashing fiscal.
              The last 2 years the trend went exponential because of fiscal.

              • @ALesha77: I'm not interested in what the puppets at the central banks are saying.

                https://australiandebtclock.com.au/

                Do the numbers go ☝️ or 👇?

                👇 means they're 🔧 the problem.

                ☝️ means they're lying.

                • @rektrading: I think you are looking at the wrong indicator.

                  Government debt is almost irrelevant to asset prices.
                  What IS important to asset price is marginal liquidity that is a function of private debt cycle, leverage and stimulus (our case) or organic good productivity growth (NOT our case).

                  Liquidity is drying up quickly and will continue to do so.
                  My bet is that BTC will not rally while liquidity is drained.

    • Damn right.💎🙌 applies to hard, income generating assets most of all.

      • Um, don't lever up too much.

        What is brewing now is generally called "de-leveraging of the private debt".

  • +3

    Wait, where's your crypto post?

      • +13

        Congratulations on not actually providing a link to the guy, as he asked.

      • +5

        woah check the attitude mate. You're not as important as you may think
        no one's sitting here reading your rants posts

        • -2

          Then what are doing here?

          • @ALesha77: Clueless much
            Wake up and smell the negs precious
            Must be only child with awful parents

            And read the comment properly. It refers to you having the unmitigated gall that we should have read your prior posts and inferred it’s the same idiotic op again and it’s our fault for not understanding wth you are ranting about.
            What a joke! I didn’t know AH was on ozbargain

  • +20

    Anything that can help slow down property prices is a good thing. I know it'll hurt people with investment properties, or hurt them relative to the huge increases in property values they were counting on, but it's the best thing for Australia that property values slow and decline.

    • +8

      Who cares? all investment comes with risk. Most property owners have seen huge increases in value anyway.

      • -4

        If you bought something for 50k, and then it was worth 100k, and you expected it to be worth 150k in a few years but instead some people did something which made it stay at 100k, you wouldn't feel hurt?

        • +4

          That's true of all investments. Something they have to cop.

        • Why would I take market and economic actions personally?

          Who even invests in anything expecting a guaranteed return? And I'm saying this as in investor.

          If you want to get higher returns than cash in the bank (risk free rate) you have to take some risks and hope to be rewarded through the risk premium
          +

        • Yep. And probably seeking sympathy. Would I deserve it … ?

    • -1

      My post is not about hurting but about getting out in time.

      • +2

        If you think you may need your cash back from your investment property in the next few years then you should sell now before house prices get back to normal. If you plan on selling in 40 years when you retire and rent collecting in the meantime, then keep it.

  • +2

    I guess it depends whether "you" own your investment property or if the "bank" owns the majority..

      • I was thinking this. Also rental vacancies are really low at the moment, and will probably trend upwards as immigration gets back to pre-covid levels.
        That said, I'm moving house - selling, buying. I keep telling myself "it's in the same market" but still, a bit of a roller coaster ride.

      • Plenty of people. Like all the gamblers who kid themselves they're "investors", who bought multi-million $ properties in Syd/Mel that have to be negative geared because while the loan repayments are thousand$ per month, they only bring in hundred$ in rent. The rent goes up, but property value drops - meaning the bank can require them to top up the loan with equity because the loan is now worth more than the property, placing the bank at greater risk. Since the value fell by 1000s while the rent went up by 10s, the owner has no new source of income… so if they can't afford to top up from their own pocket…

          • @justdigi: Ah, ok.

    • I don't own properties - too much headache and transactional costs.
      But I owned REITs (which I sold some time ago with a profit).

      The post is about capital markets, not about happiness of being leveraged to the eyeballs.
      Mods have changed the title and the message.

    • Yup. Unrealised losses are meaningless if you own the asset outright, it's generating good income and you don't need the capital.

  • +1

    I always like bottom line from a bottom line news post. It conveniently missing some important points that doesn't grab headlines. Typical Chinese Whispers game.

    For those who are interested, this is the full 15min interview.

    • You clearly did not get the MESSAGE.
      That's all right.

  • +1

    Wasnt this asked last week?

    • +3

      "this time is different"

    • This time he is committed.
      A couple of month ago he was "patient".

      180 degrees turn with a twist - "this time is different"

  • -1

    previous doomsayers got it wrong: https://www.thechainsaw.com/australian-house-prices-property…

    don't think the RBA have another information that isn't available to everyone else - and besides they'll be taking steps AFTER the facts ..

    as with most cycles, there is a down followed by an up

    • +7

      Dude that article was just before the RBA announced unlimited quantitative easing. The inflation issues of the world is due to all the central banks destroying value in their currencies.

      • 99% of people fail to understand this simple fact.

  • +2

    No i haven't sold, but i don’t think property prices always go up (and i have a social conscience so want them to go down). No poll option for that.

    • +1

      The problem is, they do. I've studied property investment gurus, etc - and many say: "property doesn't always go up - sometimes it crashes"… but they rarely complete that history lesson… "and then it goes up again, only higher." (If it hasn't, you just haven't waited long enough.)

  • +1

    People have investment properties? :(

    • Look at the poll.

      I am surprised they STILL have them.

      • As noted before, why would you sell an investment property that is owned free and clear, in good condition and generating decent income if you don't need the capital?

        It's a pretty serious bet to sell now in the hope you can buy later during a price crash, all the while your cash is rapidly devaluing due to 7% inflation.

        If you're only talking about the highly leveraged speculators, then yeah, they should've exited the market months ago.

        • Why wouldn't you consider that we might not see these levels of crazy price exuberance for a long time?
          Getting into a 20-40% drawdown for a few years is not a joke.

          The asset prices have enjoyed a number of tail-winds in the past 2 years that almost NEVER come together.
          Such convergence is unlikely to repeat EVER again.

          So, I am puzzled with those who say "I know that prices might fall but I do not want to sell" - what is the bloody point to be long an asset that you have low confidence in?

          • @ALesha77: `CGT is a thing. Plus property is expensive to divest then re-purchase, stamp duty + maybe can't borrow as much with lending changes.

  • +2

    Yet another one. None of this is rocket surgery.

    The economy was broken when they fired up the money printer.

    Also, why would you sell investment properties at the moment? Rents at all time highs, unless you purchased it 2 months ago.

    • Why? Because if you sell it now you can buy it back at the bottom of the price cycle for less.

      • +5

        Time in the market, not timing the market.

        • -3

          Why not both?
          Successful hedge-funds do exactly that.
          Plenty of markets around.

          • +5

            @ALesha77: Excellent advice. Please provide dates for peak and recovery.

    • I have posted this to revisit this at the end of the year.
      Just to see whether this was "another one" or the one you should have paid attention to.
      We'll see

      • Just post it in your diary. As I said, nothing here is rocket surgery. Lots of money printed, inflation through the roof, people spending like idiots with low interest rates, now massive downturn and recession. I put my super into cash a month or 2 ago.

        • +1

          What are the odds of Alesha revisiting at end of year?
          100% if it works out as imagined; 0% if not.

          • @SlickMick: It's a date.
            Will you be here to apologize for making assumptions?

        • Tough crowd.
          Maybe also wanted to measure the reaction and annoy you a little bit more.
          You are welcome to post about rocket surgery - favorite topic of yours?

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