Hello Community!
I need some help to make a decision, I'm getting new ducted heating and cooling for my new house and need to decide between myAir and Airtouch as a smart controller.
There aren't any direct comparisons online that I could find, so wondering if someone can please shed some light, which one is better? Or is there an alternative that ticks all boxes?
Thanks mate, they both do!
I can't comment on either but mine got dumb terminal, dont even own a remote and all the automation done by script from HA or voice control.
I do have a wall panel for HA , hardly use it and only good for show off lol
Although found this here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/613921
MyAir and Airtouch both come with a tablet, I can run HA on it so I can use for multiple applications.
I have tablet mounted on a wall in my other house and loved it
Check out what additional functionalities that you may need in the future.
MyAir supports garage, lighting, etc.
With the air-conditioning system, you can also have an outside air system. Is this something that you would want? Sensors can also be easily added on with MyAir.
Outside air system? Never heard of that. Should look into it.
Do sensors have to be their own brand or devices are Shelly can be added on?
I don't remember the exact term used. But there is an option to use fresh air instead of inside air.
This is good for cool summer night, we would only need to turn on the fan.
The outdoor unit is similar to an evaporative cooler unit.
Basic question (and apologies for highjacking your thread) but what's the benefit of going with a third party solution? A lot of manufacturers seem to have apps/ control aircon over wifi etc these days
That's okay! There isn't a much of a price difference with standard Daikin system and myAir by the time you add wifi and zones, and with myAir I'm getting 6 Zones, temperature sensors in each zone, tablet on wall that can be used for other IOT like HA. So thought it's better go with that.
Wondering if anyone has an opinion on the manual airflow option of control vs using the temperature sensors in each room?
One company was saying that the temperature sensors are good but most people like to have some air flow no matter whether the room is at temperature or not.
Is there some way of having airflow even if the room is at temperature using the automatic sensors?
Also, I am thinking if MyAir but just don't know…is Airtouch an option?
I have been looking into the smart controllers for air-conditioning. I seem to be leaning towards the My Air controller option due to a few unique features. But to keep things generic, some opinions findings below:
Before anyone goes down the third-party controller option, check if the air-conditioner brand doesn't already have options to support the smart controller functions you need. Some of the third party controllers can cost upwards of $2000 installed before adding a new air-conditioner system. Some OEMs offer options such as fresh air intake, smart app control and scheduling, zoning and room sensors. Google Assistant / Alexa, etc may already be supported by the OEM smart apps. Some brands of ducted systems will need a third-party smart controller system to get room sensor functionality, beyond basic room zone controls (I think this applies to LG as they don't seem to sell temperature sensors for zones).
@riverwalk . Modern inverter air conditioners with R410a or R32 refrigerants are much more efficient than older systems (10+ years). If you are in the habit of leaving external doors and windows open, don't invest in a reverse cycle air conditioner …. you will burn through energy running them as they are a closed loop system (and the rooms will tend to feel humid when you run them with unlimited external air). Open loop systems are evaporative systems. When you operate fresh air intakes on some systems, the compressor is usually turned off. To be honest, there is probably not much difference with opening a few windows/doors near the ac air intake and turning the airconditioner on in fan-only mode.
My other findings:
Check that the air conditioner is compatible with the 3rd party smart controller such as 'My Air' or 'Air Touch' systems. Specific interface control modules may be needed for compatibility.
Zoning without room temperature sensors is ok / manageable for single storey dwellings, however, for optimal control an efficiency it is probably best to have the room sensors. Without the sensors you will have to play with the air flow to individual rooms to get the temperature balanced throughout the home. You also need to keep the doors to each room closed to get effective cooling/heating, making sure that the gap beneath the door allows for some air movement, or there is some sort of pressure release vents in the room to allow air to flow to the return air intake of the air conditioner.
Ducted air-conditioning for multi-storey dwellings tends to get unbalanced easily without room sensors, as hot air rises. If the bottom of the stairs has a door to prevent air rising upstairs, this may help, however, remember that airflow to the intake is still needed (some sort of one-way ventilation is needed, similar to a draft stopper). A definite must for room sensors for multi-storey ducted systems.
I found that the smart systems tended to have wireless room sensors. I'm not a big fan of wireless sensors due to the need to change batteries and the environmental factors around battery disposal. Having mentioned this, the sensors are supposed to operate for about 2-3 years with new batteries (can't confirm this as consistent). Installation of wireless sensors is supposed to be easier and cheaper. Some smart controller systems also have motion sensors to detect room occupancy…. this may further improve air conditioner usage (reduce running costs) by reducing the heating/cooling temperature by a few degrees when the room is not occupied.
Fresh air intake - My Air is supposed to have this as an option. Additional hardware and ducting is needed, like the rooftop air intake hood, filters and air mixer unit. Needless to say, this comes with additional costs and there is also the maintenance of the fresh air intake filter. The advantage of this option is that you can use cooler air from outside your home to displace the warmer air indoors (also introducing more fresh air into your home). This option seems to be manually controlled (no automatic switching of modes). If you want a direct OEM manufacturer option for fresh air, I think Fujitsu has this option for some systems and also a smart controller for their system. Some split system air-conditioners also come with the fresh air option. I haven't come across an automatic system that balances between fresh and refrigerated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't exist. From what I could tell, the My Air system for fresh air is manually controlled. I haven't looked into the Fujitsu fresh air intake system to that level of detail.
Be mindful of the outdoor operating temperature in cold climates. If you are in an area that gets cold, the compressor operating temperature needs some consideration, as not all air conditioners will heat as well (or at all) below temperatures below -10C . From my search LG seem to have an operating temperature as low as -18C in heating mode, Fujitsu seem to be around -15C for some models …. these sorts of temperatures seem to be more common with modern air-conditioners. Some systems may be capable of operating as low as -20C …. anything capable of operating as low as -15C should be fine for maybe 99% of Australia. Be mindful of the operating temperatures for your area when selecting a system. LG sell a ducted single-phase system up to15kW of cooling (17kW heating) …. something worth mentioning if your home only has single phase power. Generally, a lot of ducted units tend to use 3-phase power from about 15kW of compressor output rating. Note, check out the efficiency rating of the system (EER rating) when selecting a system for your area. The better (higher) the EER, the more efficient the system is.
I found in general that most OEMs supported smart control functions that integrated with Google Assistant / Alexa, etc. . Third party smart control systems generally focused on a smart control ecosystem where additional items like lights, gates, garage doors, etc could also be integrated and controlled. I'm not so sure how necessary this will be when Matter support (https://csa-iot.org/all-solutions/matter/) goes mainstream and you are not tied down to specific brand ecosystems to control smart devices. (see also https://matter.com.au/). My personal preference is to stick with the OEM sensors and zone controllers wherever possible.
Very insightful and well thought out response. Greatly appreciated!
Sorry to hijack but wanted your thoughts
I got 2 quotes for a midea and a Panasonic ducted heating/cooling 18kW, 14 vents and 4 zones
1) 9400 for midea with airtouch 5
2) 9600 for Panasonic with ezone touch controller (Adding my air is extra 2000 but will have individual zoning to each room so like 8-9 zones)
Thoughts?
See my post below.
@glutamic it really depends on the convenience and how much you value consistent air temperature in each room. If you don’t have sensors in each room, then the temperature could go higher or lower in the respective room depending on conditions like outside temperature and appliances running in the room.
If you are zoning but don’t have the money to do the sensors in each zoned area, do without it until you can afford to add the sensors. I think there is an add-on module and then you pair the sensors.
Just some caution with the above. You may need to add additional ducting and further modifications later, so the cost may be a little more to add the bypass later on.
Getting back to your questions.
- Hopefully you quote is inclusive of all necessary duct work. Most installers will suggest 10 inch duct work for that size system,
- It doesn’t hurt to slightly oversize your system, as you air conditioner won’t have to work as hard. I wouldn’t go overboard, maybe 10% extra capacity. Go too small and it will run longer (consuming more power) when cooling or heating. It sounds like the 18kW unit will be large enough for your needs.
- If your house ceiling is 2.6m or higher, go with the larger unit.
- Installers usually place the outdoor compressor on the shady part of your house if possible. If there is a wall or structure close to the compressor (~ < 2.5m) then they may need to fit an air diverter to point the air upwards. If the air blows back onto the compressor it won’t run as efficiently.
- It looks like the Midea is sold by Polyaire in Australia and the units go up to 17kW. Can’t vouch for the brand reliability but they must be ok if Polyaire is selling them.
- Panasonic would be my choice out of what you have given. They seem to have a good reputation amongst installers and from what I can quickly find on Google, you can get an 18kW unit in 1-phase or 3-phase. I went with a Daikin system using R32 refrigerant.
- Both Midea and Panasonic are using R32 refrigerant for the capacities described. This suggests they are using newer compressor technology, as the others will use R410a for the larger capacities.
- If you are going down the path of a 3rd party controller like My Air or Air Touch 5, they mostly work the same and have mobile apps to control them as well. I have the Air Touch 5 system. I don’t think the quality of the tablet/wall controller is all that great, but it does the job. Also, when you add room sensors, you can’t mix wired and wireless on the one system.
- Apparently, I was not able to run down to one zone without a permanent spill zone using the OEM controller and sensors. Can’t say if this is true or not, but that is what my installer told me and I am not the expert on these systems.
- Air Touch wireless sensors have one CR2450 lithium battery which is supposed to last around 2 years. The system will give a warning when the battery level goes low, so it shouldn't be a surprise before it stops working. I wasn't a fan of getting battery operated sensors initially, but they are cheaper to install and re-locate. It wasn't possible to install wired sensors easily at my home, nor could I mix wired and wireless, so they were the only realistic choice for me. They are even easier to replace yourself should one become faulty.
Key reasons for my preference of the Air Touch 5 system:
o Wireless room sensors are the standout feature that makes me prefer Air Touch 5. The wireless sensors have a button than can quickly give you a status of the zone (if it is on or off), plus you can manually turn the zone on/off from the sensor itself. (see https://www.airtouch.net.au/which-temperature-sensors-work-w… ). My Air sensors don’t seem to have this capability.
o The mobile app has a geo-location function that can tell the system (if configured) to switch to 'Away' mode (reducing the set temperature of the system), or even turn the system off when you exit a predefined distance away from your home location. You can also get it to turn the system back to normal operating temperature before you return home.
o Some weather functions can also tune your system temperature further when the outside temperature dictates a more energy efficient setting.
o If the wireless sensor is not in an optimal location, it can be moved relatively easily. Recommendation is to install at a height of 1.5m and avoid direct sunlight.
o There is a feature to calibrate the temperature sensor from the wall controller, should you find that the sensor temperature readings are not quite right.
o If your installer is able to install a loopback zone, configured as a permanent bypass zone, you can run down to one zone without having to have a permanently open spill zone. This is nice to have. Your installer has to get this installed right, otherwise the ducting can collapse and rstrict airflow across the blower exchanger coils, leading to faults in the system (e.g. system stopping due to error codes)
So basically, if cost is not a concern, it is your long term home and you want to have a balanced and more efficient system, get the room sensors and the loopback zone, so that you can run down to one room and minimise your air conditioner run time when the usage suits. Keep in mind that the newer inverter reverse-cycle systems can reduce the operating level of the outdoor compressor down to about 40% when the full load is not needed (which saves you more money running it).
Also worth noting. These controllers have a WiFi connection for the mobile app function and also to get updates. I'll probably never fully trust the security of these systems or the networks they connect to (which is managed by the OEM), so prefer to have on a segmented WiFi network (either a seperate isolated Wifi network to your home WiFi or have WVLANs (Wireless VLANs).
Get one that can connect to home assistance or google home etc. Then you can make your own smart controls / voice control etc.