Last year, Honda moved to fixed-price sales of their cars and Mercedes this year. More car companies may go on this path in the coming years. No more price negotiations, and I don't know whether we can get freebies such as carpet mates, free full tank of fuel, tinting, discounted additional parts such as tow bar etc.
Do you think this is good for us?
Will you support the fixed car price?
Do you think this is good for us?
Will you support the fixed car price?
They are a private business, not a govt where you may seek change through a petition.
It'll either work out for them or not. Let the free market determine their fate.
It'll either work out for them or not. Let the free market determine their fate.
yep.
Seems to be doing ok for Tesla.
To be honest if more cars were just order/spec online, known expected delivery date, standard option and spec pricing, and click here to buy, it would likely make car shopping/buying somewhat less stressful an experience (with less inner 'worry' over whether you're getting ripped off compared to someone else buying the exact same thing)
Don't compare our prices to the same car OS then, we're definitely getting ripped.
Depends on which overseas country. We obviously got ripped compared to US but UK price seems to be higher.
@Bigboomboom: Vehicle prices in the UK are much higher than here.If you compare Honda’s HRV Hybrid @45k,the equivalent in the UK(Advance variant) £31,155(NOT on the road btw) which is $55,000 AUD.You do not get privacy glass.The ‘Crystal premium Red is an extra £850! Which is just over $1,500.
@Hackney: Yep, I checked RAV4 Hybrid Icon which is around $60,000 before on road cost and that's equivalent to GX Hybrid FWD which is $41,000ish Drive Away. Massive markup.
You think fixed or negotiated prices change that?
That exists now, and we have most manufacturers with negotiated pricing. Doesnt seem to be helping that comparison currently
@Mehz.Actually no, compared to UK pricing we are quite reasonable.
@Hackney: And you need to compare average salary, and fuel price, and insurance price, only then you can say who is being ripped off where.
@cameldownunder: Our wages on average are 28% higher.Food is a lot cheaper here as well, fuel is a lot cheaper.Cars in this country are around 35% cheaper.It is a very expensive country.(I have been there multiple times,& it isn’t cheap, especially in London.)
Mercedes
Well jokes on them, I can't even afford it.
The industry will shift that way at some point, you'd be naive to think otherwise, so what other choice would you have?!
@spackbace.It is the way of the future, no doubt about it.Quite a few manufactures in the UK are now going across to it.It is coming.I have absolutely no issue with it.
I'm not sure about Honda , but apparently Mercedes preform better than Audi and BMW based on their new sales models
https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-march-2022-mercedes-ben…
Plus only fraction of people who willing to haggle, maybe its works better for majority. That is the main reason car brokers are in business.
@spackbace - would you agree from what you've seen? That minority haggle over price?
I would have thought its the other way - but the level of haggling would of course vary a lot
I do know some people who have literally walked in and paid sticker price too though…
That minority haggle over price?
Yep. It just is how it is. Long wait times, plus 1yo used cars asking more than the price of a new one means there's no reason to discount.
Dealers don't want to push out their own wait times due to scalping cars, what's the point?
Makes sense for now given the shortages, what about pre-COVID?
@Shadowsfury: Oh pre-covid dealers were their own worst enemy, with Dutch auctions etc, selling LC200's for near on cost price. Was ridiculous
@boomramada.MB have tanked a little bit,& BMW have made up ground on them, interesting to see what happens for the rest of the year though.
I don't think fixed price car purchase was the issue with Honda, it was the removal of the lower end models and increase in the price.
Prior to fixed price car purchase, there were drive-away prices, which was the maximum you pay for a particular model and spec. Say if the drive away price was $24,999, with the lowest price sold at $21,000 and the highest sold at $24,999. The average price might be $23,000. The fixed price car purchase should be on par with the average price to be fair and the removal of the 'dealer model', which you would assume adds cost to the overall price.
That's how fixed price car purchase should be set.
Perhaps also the timing was bad for Honda too, due to increase in production costs and bad timing to introduce a fixed price and strange decision to remove the lower end specs at the same time.
@haz, I have just gone through with the fixed price model, had no issues or problems with it whatsoever.Trade in was fine.Very good & seamless transaction.Just waiting for vehicle to come through in the next week.
I just don't understand Honda lately at all. The latest Civic is priced like top end Camry, and now rumour of new CR-V being priced like Kluger despite being a smaller car? Just because they fit 7 seats into a midsize SUV they want to price it like large SUV?
I wonder how this affects Dealer Principals and the little known holdbacks they ordinarily receive?
Honda has already lost a heap of market share and i feel this will be a nail in the coffin courtesy of the big wigs running the joint. If you're cars aren't cutting edge (which they aren't) then price is really your only other point of difference.
I don't really see Honda coming out of this hole without something more innovative, which we're yet to see.
The CR-V is a reliable car but Kia, Hyundai and Mazda all have them pipped for fit and finish.
The Civic and Accord is behind Camrys and Corollas
They don't have a ute offering
They're probably one of the few manufacturers that don't have a wait time for their cars (kind of explains itself)
They've missed the boat to be honest.
Go & look @ the new HRV Hybrid, finish is top notch, the paint finish is fantastic.The car is a very well built & quality is as good if not better than its rivals.It is manufactured in Japan.
Toyota Rav4/CH-R still pips it for value and specs.
@Drakesy.RAV is in a completely different segment.(& I just don’t like them.)CH-R has smaller engine,& there is a lot more useable space in the HRV,ie: Hondas magic seats.Sure it is only a four seater(in this country anyway)but that is down to our insane ADR regs.Hybrid system.Honda:Combined engine power :96kw. Alternate engine power:96kw.Alternate engine torque:253nm.CH-R Combined engine power 90kw. Alternate engine torque:163nm.Economy for the two of them is much the same.4.3 for both.Have seen the HRV as low as 3.8 & 2.9.CH-R would probably be able to achieve that, it is the style of driving that is able to achieve really low figures in these Hybrids.Looked @ the CH-R, but wait times again are nuts.Honda is now out to six months & beyond.Mine is due next week, but I was one of the very first to place an order.Both vehicles have their pluses & minuses.All boils down to want the individual wants.Honda’s Hybrid system is very very good, it will run on pure electric power longer than the Toyota system, but is also slightly different as well.Again, personal preference.I also found the Honda a lot more comfortable than the CH-R.
@Hackney: ive picked up my HRV hybrid and its a great drive, damn quiet
the 4 seats is going to be annoying but i have 2 car seats anyway so it didnt matter
the features in the car is quite premium (so many sensors) but at 45k (plus mats, tint and premium plates) its not cheap
@djones145: Cool!Damn!Thought I might have been one of the first!Location?Queensland?I get mine next week.They are really nice.I have optioned up with the Honda alloys,& a few other bits & pieces.The 4 seats issue was not a deal breaker for us.What colour?
@Hackney: nsw. I ordered on the first day of pre order. the nsw shipment came in the 16 may. 200 cars, only 20 hybrid.
got white, always had blue and black cars so when bold lolz
@djones145: We ordered on 11/4/22.Ours was probably in that shipment(I was following the vessel,’Polaris highway’)it docks @ Port Kembla for cars destined for NSW.Dealer has ours now.Premium Crystal Red is the colour I ordered.Within a few days of ordering,my dealer was notified it was about to be built,few days later I had a Vin#.They are only delivering two that I am aware of(mine included)Orders are now out to six months & beyond now.That’s interesting regarding only 20 Hybrids for NSW.The ship did dock in Brisbane first & also goes onto Melbourne & beyond I would think.They carry around 8,000 odd vehicles of varying brands.
@Hackney: Aaahh I ordered 4 April. Got it without test drive LOL. Really wanted it. As goanna get it in 2020 then covid hit so waited. Pearl white seems nice. Proudly still prefer a black car LOL. Wife wanted white
I'm sure the HRV is a quality, well built car, but it's too expensive for its size. A base GX RAV4 hybrid is $41K D/A, and that's a full size class larger.
$45K for a Mitsubishi ASX sized car is going to be invisible to most buyers.
It all comes down to personal preference.I could have easily purchased a RAV4 Hybrid.But personally they do nothing for me.
Will you support the fixed car price?
Depends on if you are brand loyal. Tesla fans see the prices keep on going up but if you just want a BEV there is other brands which you can cross shop.
Even if say Toyota goes fixed price there will be other brands coming to try to take their market share. Fixed price might just mean you see the price online and won't be bothered going into the dealership to get the pressure sell.
Car dealing is a dying business with many suburban dealers planning to sell off their large blocks of land and become real estate developers
Every car manufacturer wants to be like Tesla or Apple and completely control the relationship with the customer
Your responsibility as an OzBargain car buyer is to shop wisely and compare price vs features and support, no matter what business model the car brand uses
Three companies are doing it for ALL of their models in Australia, with some doing it for some models.
Tesla does it. Since it has always done it, there's nothing to compare with.
Mercedes does it, and is doing well compared with its competitors, but the reason may be that Mercedes can get cars to sell and its competitors can't because of the shortage of certain semiconductors.
Honda is doing it, and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Prices are up and sales are way way down at least partly because at pretty much the same time Honda decided it could move upmarket.
Yes prefer a fixed price model. Either I can afford it or not and move on.
No more price negotiation BS where you think you got a good deal for gettings mats included but reality is dealer always wins. They're meant to, they're a business that needs to survive. So let's be open about it.
Exactly, you know how much can spend.Not having to worry about all the crap salesman tries on.
So it's the psychology aspect you're against. You could treat all current car prices as fixed, just pay the window price, no negotiating.
dealer always wins
Dealer wins either way. Only with fixed policy, you dont have the option to haggle.
A car has a minimum sell price of $50,000.
Dealers add their markups and advertise it for $59,999.
You "haggle" and bring it down to $56,000 "with free mats" thinking you got a deal. Someone else maybe reached $55,000, others maybe $57,500 is all they got to.
Whereas in theory it should just be $50,000 sticker price.
There's a valid counter-argument to say what's to stop them jacking price up to $55,000 fixed sticker price anyway. Sure, and they would anyway, but at least you know where you stand and can make a call on whether it's for you or not.
Fixed price ✂️ out the dealer.
That sounds 👍.
The time will come you test drive for a day or two, if you like it place the order online and they will deliver the vehicle straight to your door.
Why pay for such a huge dealer margin, their unnecessary prep talk. The dealership is 50 years old selling models where they take away yours and manufacture commission into their pocket. Deal directly with the company. I have come across a few dealers who will advise you to avoid going for brand A, which is your preferred brand and push you for brand C ( dealer where they sell multiple brands under one big plot of space). I have also found that the dealer has no time even to care to show you the car even if you have booked time with them because either they are understaffed or don't care attitude.
Why do brands have to suffer?
I see no problem with fixed price. It will make the car buying process a lot less stressful for many people. Inspect, drive pay. Simple. No more trying to upsell ceramic coatings and trying to work out wether free mats are a deal breaker.
If the price is too high for the market, they’ll have discount sales to improve numbers.
They still tried to ‘upsell’ me their ‘products’! That crap still goes on.
Fair enough, but if you are going in knowing the price you don’t need to sort out in your head what it is actually costing or wether it’s good value.
On an optimistic note, if you can see the actual price of the accessories because the vehicle price is fixed it might mean the upsell item prices become a bit more competitive
My recent experience with a new car purchase was that they couldn’t offer me tint at all without the ceramic coating etc. if that’s all they’ve got to bargain with (not rrp) it will probably help.
Don’t see the point in tint, especially when it has privacy glass as standard.Ceramic coating I can do myself, as I have done a few cars.
@Hackney: Was just interested in tint for front windows to match the rear factory privacy glass.
Same for DIY coatings.
@Euphemistic: If you want it done, that’s fine, but use a third party instead of the dealer.Far cheaper & better quality.
@Euphemistic: No they won’t, you take it as it is or not @ all.They will not split it.I elected to pick what I wanted from individual accessories.Even if I had wanted tinted glass, I would have gone to a third party anyway.
Fixed price is the way.
A lot of people think it will make the process easier, but even the fixed price will vary over time. There will be discounts and special deals, so people will want to time their purchase.
Freebies will be definitely a thing, and I bet you will be able to haggle for them.
So I don't think a lot will change. Some people will still get better deals than others.
Freebies will be definitely a thing, and I bet you will be able to haggle for them.
Haggle… what part of "fixed price" aren't you understanding here? lol
I don't believe in a "strict fixed price" with such expensive purchases like cars.
Very strict fixed price policy can work only if there is a big demand that exists currently with car shortage period, but one day it will end, and there will be more cars than buyers, so manufactures will have to come with incentives. Having some negoationable extras for people who demand them is a great way to sell more. You might not haggle with your local dealer, but you will still haggle with some sale representative employed by a car manufacturer over a phone.
but you will still haggle with some sale representative employed by a car manufacturer over a phone.
Except you don't, you buy it the same way you'd order milk from Coles. You go through the options online, or in a store with a brand representative, and the final price is the final price.
There's enough examples of this already, a "click & collect" style of buying.
There will be no negotiation, like there isn't for Tesla and some others currently.
All that will happen is manufacturers will limit how much they produce so they don't have an excess amount of stock. It may even be a case of if you want a new car, everything is a factory order with a wait time, with very limited in-stock vehicles.
Except you don't, you buy it the same way you'd order milk from Coles. You go through the options online, or in a store with a brand representative, and the final price is the final price.
There is no point to haggle over milk. Compare it to TVs, most people buy them for a fixed price, but stubborn negotiators are able to get special deals over the phone.
There will be no negotiation, like there isn't for Tesla and some others currently.
There is currently a car shortage. It will not stay like this forever. Tesla is also in high demand and is a luxurious vehicle. Different market dynamics.
All that will happen is manufacturers will limit how much they produce so they don't have an excess amount of stock. It may even be a case of if you want a new car, everything is a factory order with a wait time, with very limited in-stock vehicles.
Easier said than done. It works now because all manufacturers are impacted with their production, but the moment supply chains and manufacturing are fully restored, it is a very risky move to reduce output to increase wait time and not fully utilize production capacity when your competitors are happy to eat your market and use their production capabilities at 100% and sell excess with discounts.
Tesla is also in high demand and is a luxurious vehicle. Different market dynamics.
Again, used that as an example, and why I also stated "and some others"
That's fine, you can bury your head in the sand all you want, but at some point you will be walking in, talking to someone who will add up what you want and give you a price. If you reply with "what's your best price" you'll be laughed out of the door.
@spackbace: The market will change, I agree with that. Manufacturers will take control of pricing, and dealers will be showrooms with no sales. The traditional negotiation will go away, but carmakers will still offer deals when they will have excess stock, and they might offer better prices for people who ask for them. Similar to how JB Hi-Fi works, most of the time you will be laughed out, but if they have too much stock that does not sell well you can haggle for a deal.
@spackbace: The salesman may not be in a position to do any negotiating. Just because we are all used to haggling with cars doesn’t mean it’s the best way, or that it will always be that way.
If you look back in history pretty much everything was negotiable but it’s trending towards more fixed pricing.
@spackbace: But is it a ‘luxurious’ vehicle?Not in my mind it is not.If you are talking luxury, you better start looking @ Bentley,high end MB etc, not some Chinese assembled Tesla.
@SBOB: In that case, what has a fixed price model and costs more than 10k and isn't in high demand? Buying expensive things is not taken lightly, and if you need to sell you need to convience buyers, and price is the best thing to do so. Some buyers will budge if you give them a discount.
It might not be the ozbargain way, but I love fixed price. It saves me so much work haggling and shopping around.
I was able to walk into my local Stihl dealer and buy what I wanted, knowing no one had the same equipment cheaper, I wasn't missing a sale about to be announced etc.
So much easier.
I hate that better negotiators get better deals than I do.
Even if fixed price became common the dealers will be more flexible with your trade in price to get your business.
Input material prices for cars are getting expensive and more difficult to source, the cost of shipping is increasing, people and government policy is moving towards more and better public transport and the cost of capital is on the rise.
The move to fix prices by the manufacturers is an attempt to lock in high prices for the future to reduce risk and contain costs.
Don't think for a second this will benefit consumers.
Do you think this is good for us?
It will be for me, as no time-waster negotiation is needed.
For a reason car brokers exist. Cheaper, faster, more coverage. Better
Will you support the fixed car price?
For a brand new car? Yes.
Not having to deal with Stealerships and Salesslimes would be a plus. Only cars I have bought in the last 25 years have either been at auction with a car broker or through leasing companies…
For addons I diy if I want it, rather than paying a stealership twice what I can go to the tint company directly and get it done for
For old car I sell privately or auction rather than stealship tradein BS.
I guess in theory you can just go online and compare prices of different models then pay your money and take your chances.
When I go woolies I dont haggle for that banana at $2.99/kg last week when it's $4/kg today for whatever QLD weather reasons. So I also dont wish to haggle for a car especially such a huge sum. This also sets a price for other car brands accordingly. It stops the car dealer stereotypes so fix price it is for me. I know I bought a car for a fair price because it is fixed and not feeling sour when someone else told me they got a 2% extra discount because they can haggle.
As far as I am concerned the sooner the salesman is taken out of the equation the better, that will eventually happen.
Saves the hassle of dealing with the stealers, even at a higher price.
When all moved to fixed pricing, in the long run, manufacturers will adjust price (up or down) to balance market share/profit.
Discounts will happen, and applies to everyone on first come first serve.
The current climate makes the stealership more of an evil and gouge with available stock.
BMW now also going to an agency style model.It is slowly happening.
If you want to buy their car, you have no choice. The only option you have is when/if you trade in a car, they'll bump up the value a bit to offset