Statutory Declaration to Apply for Sick Leave

TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 10:28

I was sick from Tuesday to Thursday and was asked to get a Covid test. Something was wrong (maybe wrong phone number) and I am still waiting for the result. I saw a doctor on Friday through phone as fully booked. Doctor said she cannot issue medical certificate for past days. She told me I can use a Statutory Declaration instead. So I downloaded the form from government web site and got signed at Chemist and handed in at work. On Monday I got a message from work saying the SD is not accepted. It can be used by other companies but not this company saying it is HR policy. In the government web site It is clearly stated "Statutory declarations are used for many purposes, including to apply for sick leave at work." Now company says "We are not a government business and are governed by the EBA".

Do I have to give up two days pay? Thursday was off in my roster.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 02/05/2022 - 10:31

    Were u a close contact?

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 10:33
      +1

      No. If anybody is sick with Covid symptoms then company ask to get the test.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 02/05/2022 - 10:53

        One of my staff was a close contact verified with his gf’s pcr text result, I had him go home on sick leave to isolate. On day 5 he got sick too and tested positive and isolated for another 7 days sick leave and was allowed back after negative pcr. Having my team go down with COVID is not worth it.

        • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:18
          -2

          These days Corona is not serious issue and I wasn't asked isolation after test. My issue is about "form acceptance".

  • AndyC1 on 02/05/2022 - 10:34
    +15

    Sounds like you have rubbed a manager or HR up the wrong way.

    Ask for a copy of the EBA and read it. Also read the contract you signed when you joined the company to see what is says.

    Either way sounds like a company that will follow the rules and screw you over if you do something wrong and not look after you. May bee time to jump ship.

    • whatwasherproblem on 02/05/2022 - 12:18
      +3

      Yeah I was gonna say, sounds like one of those companies that you'd screenshot the email and put on /r/antiwork (except this time the company would be actually real and not just an embarrassingly low-effort photoshop job).

    • lost in transit on 03/05/2022 - 11:19
      -1

      “Sounds like you have rubbed a manager or HR up the wrong way.”

      Is that still going on in this day an age 😳😀

  • orangetrain on 02/05/2022 - 10:42
    +17

    Some red flags from company. I hope you can apply elsewhere!

    • boomramada on 02/05/2022 - 13:48
      -7

      Some red flags from company. I hope you can apply elsewhere!

      What with this comment?

      SD not accept on every workplace. You need to refer to your work HR or refer to your contract. My work SD is only accepted on certain condition.
      That's like crying over a insurance claim when its not in the PDS.

      • orangetrain on 02/05/2022 - 14:59
        +9

        Manager:
        - Not here
        - Clearly manages only instead of helping OP with HR
        - With no manager shield, OP's work is probably suffering

        HR:
        - Demands documentation
        - Knocks back OP and refer to policy

        Manager/HR are going to lose a potentially valuable cooperating employee because of three days absence. While I can understand dealing with repeat troublemakers, it looks like HR power tripping here. If I were their bosses, I'd pull their head in.

        • bobbified on 02/05/2022 - 15:07
          +8

          Manager/HR are going to lose a potentially valuable cooperating employee because of three days absence.

          Exactly this. HR has a policy they go by, but as a senior manager, I always shield my guys from the bs company politics and do the arguing on their behalf if things come across as unreasonable. OP's situation is exactly what I would class as 'unreasonable'. Good staff are hard to come by and I don't like losing them over sh.t like this.

          • boomramada on 02/05/2022 - 22:54

            @bobbified: Issue is in every workplace management not always consistent.

  • mooney on 02/05/2022 - 10:45
    +1

    I agree with AndyC1. Sounds like HR are being stubborn for some reason. Do you have a history of above average absence from work due to illness, have you given any reason for them to doubt you are being genuine?

    If so then taking 3 days off, waiting for a PCR result that doesnt arrive, is likely being viewed as suspicious. If you have not given them any reason to doubt you then I think it's probably a company with a poor culture and you should mooch. Any half decent company would use discretion and pay sick leave, probably with a warning to be more careful in future.

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 12:06

      Finally after waiting for 29min 38seconds I talked to an operator and he sent the result just now. It is Negative.

      • mooney on 02/05/2022 - 16:14
        +1

        Cool. So now you have evidence you were acting in good faith. As long as you have followed the company covid policy you should be bulletproof IMO

  • GordonD on 02/05/2022 - 10:50
    +4

    Its a bit tough if you need a doctor's certificate to prove you are sick, but you can't get an appointment to see your GP for a couple of days, and by then you've recovered, are back at work, and would need to take more time to go to the GP to get a doctor's certificate, which the GP wouldn't backdate. That was the point of allowing people a day or two off without a doctor's certificate. I've fortunately never worked at a place that didn't allow that.

    Of course it was a system that was often abused, but most businesses and industries accepted that as part and parcel of employing people, that some would take "sick" days for trivial or other reasons. I know I have.

    I thought pharmacists could do short duration doctor's certificates for minor ailments.

  • bobbified on 02/05/2022 - 10:56
    +4

    Why don't you ask the company what they're expecting if a SD isn't acceptable and the doctors can't issue certificates for 'past days'?.

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:13

      It is simple answer. The company said The SD form is not acceptable by company policy. The doctor said She cannot issue the medical certificate for past days (even in the same week). I asked why then they just said "it is it". What can I do more?

      • bobbified on 02/05/2022 - 11:33
        +4

        I asked why then they just said "it is it".

        That might be the case but if you sound it back to them like "If an SD is not acceptable and the doctor can't issue a certificate, does that mean I have to lose two days pay because I was trying to be considerate in trying to avoid potentially infecting everyone at work with Covid?", it lets them hear how ridiculous what they've just said is.

        And tell them that if that's the company's stance on this, it's going to encourage other employees to come into the office even if they're infected to avoid losing out on pay.

        • Settero on 02/05/2022 - 11:41
          +1

          It sounds more like the doctor probably saw no signs of op being sick , so didn't want to give a cert , they just didn't want to imply they thought he was lying to his face.

          They often give certs for prior days if you are still sick, iv gone in day 3 and got a cert for 5 days total 2 days prior , day of visit and next 2 days

          • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 12:04
            +1

            @Settero: When I mentioned Covid test I wasn't welcome to visit. I didn't see the doctor and talked through phone. I was back to work on Friday afternoon after I talked to the doctor in the morning. They give prior days if sick last long.

            • Settero on 02/05/2022 - 12:12

              @TigerWoops: Completely understand, not making accusations, just pointing out a different possibility , glad you got your test results back hopefully this will alleviate your hr's concerns , if it dosnt they got it in for you and you may want to find a more reasonable employer.

          • mjdawson on 03/05/2022 - 11:16
            +1

            @Settero: According to the doctors at my medical centre, they're only allowed to issue medical certificates from the day that they see you. Retrospective certificates aren't allowed.

  • Heaps for Cheaps on 02/05/2022 - 11:09
    +9

    Phone the Victorian Wage Inspectorate and let them know that your employer is withholding sick pay illegally and not accepting a statutory declaration.

    Wage theft in Victoria is now a crime which may lead to criminal prosecution of the company and individuals involved. Ask around for the details of the people involved so you can make a criminal complaint. Let them know they can work the rest out in court amongst themselves.

    • Crow K on 02/05/2022 - 11:15

      Be sure to start off with "I didn't follow the steps of my work EBA.." so they know to treat the grievance with the appropriate attention

      • Heaps for Cheaps on 02/05/2022 - 11:22
        +2

        Though… The EBA can't make a worker worse off than the Modern Award they were otherwise entitled to. You can't sign away your minimum rights and i'd be confident there's no clause specifically denying a statutory declaration.

        • Crow K on 02/05/2022 - 11:28
          +1

          There's probably no clause specifically denying a letter from your mother while we're at it. So we'll pop that into the "some other workplaces have permitted this, so maybe this group might allow it, but it will be whatever the EBA says" pile.

          • Heaps for Cheaps on 02/05/2022 - 11:32
            +4

            @Crow K: Medical certificates and statutory declarations are the minimum standard under law. You need to approve his leave tbh.

            • Crow K on 02/05/2022 - 11:36

              @Heaps for Cheaps: I don't have a definitive answer as I haven't read this person's EBA or company contract.

              It's a faulty premise that "some businesses have permitted stat decs to be used" as a basis for "well, my work must as well then" and then "time to phone the inspectorate because illegal shenanigans are happening".

              My nuanced take is they definitely should consult the ombudsman/govt/HR with their circumstances for a clear answer - but it's better to go into that process with a 'so, who's right?' mindset than 'the company is breaking the law' one. As other commenters have said, HR are obviously taking a stance on this one [past behaviour?], firing back at them that they're about to get sued in court isn't going to help.

              • Fredorishi on 03/05/2022 - 08:14
                +2

                @Crow K: Read the link to Fair work shared above for your "definitive answer". Its not reasonable to refuse a stat dec..

                • Crow K on 03/05/2022 - 09:10

                  @Fredorishi: This is the wording I saw in there: "An award or registered agreement can specify when an employee has to give evidence to their employer and what type of evidence they have to give."

                  Have you got some definitive proof their award doesn't say, oh, I don't know, "sick leave of more than one day will require a medical certificate from a doctor"? Probably not, which is why I picked my words the way I did.

                  My personal take is HR are using the rulebook as a cudgel and it they 'should' accept a stat dec, but it all really depends on what actually is in the rulebook in the first place.

                  • Fredorishi on 03/05/2022 - 13:14
                    +5

                    @Crow K: I think you missed the bit where it says:

                    "Medical certificates or statutory declarations are examples of acceptable forms of evidence."

                    Seems pretty clear cut to me..

              • terrys on 05/05/2022 - 15:05

                @Crow K: "It's a faulty premise that "some businesses have permitted stat decs to be used" as a basis for "well, my work must as well then" "

                It's also a faulty premise to suggest that a company, sighting a signed state dec, isn't calling the employee a liar and defaming them.

                • Crow K on 05/05/2022 - 15:48

                  @terrys: That's not what defamation is. Further reading is recommended.

                  Also: We were discussing whether a company would accept one, not whether they dispute its contents.

                  Based on the above links, I agree with the sentiment that Fair Work requires employers to accept it (which is why I said Rightio and ended the discussion where I did).

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:23

      WOW….it makes me scary…

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:33

      Last case… I was injured at home and off on Monday and came back to work on Tuesday. I had to give up after half of my shift due to injury. I applied sick leave without certificate and half day sick leave without certificate separate.. Only one day sick leave is allowed without certificate. The company canceled both days sick leaves without pay. After that I was off for four weeks starting the Monday as injury got worse. I gave up two sick leaves pay without certificate, I think they had to pay the first Monday but they didn't. The rest days are covered as I got certificates from doctors week by week.

      • bobbified on 02/05/2022 - 12:14
        +12

        It might be time to find a new job with an employer who treats their staff as fellow humans.

      • jakka on 02/05/2022 - 13:41

        That is a lot of sick leave, most business only provide 10 days ( 2 weeks) of sick leave per year. Does your company have a limit on sick leave and is it possible you have not been paid as you have used your complete entitlement, rather than being due to not providing a certificate?

        • TigerWoops on 03/05/2022 - 22:19

          I had more than 300 hours of sick leave at that time and I used it with certificate. There is no limit of sick leaves hours as they don't pay any when quit. Only 5 days of sick leave a year without certificate. Companies have their own policies and they wouldn't be same.

  • Settero on 02/05/2022 - 11:13

    When did you do the covid test? What do you mean something went wrong ? As in you didn't get the results test yet , or they have no record of your test?

    If you gave that excusses to a reasonable person it would definitely raise red flags with how you have phrased it , a result that shows your test date may alleviate all concerns ?

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:21

      I got the test on Tuesday and they got wrong phone number, I guess, even I corrected my number they had. I got a RAT from work on Thursday and the result is negative.

      • o53djz7qTPY4der on 02/05/2022 - 11:22

        So you didn't get an SMS result?

        • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:58

          Finally after waiting for 29min 38seconds I talked to an operator and he sent the result just now. It is Negative.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 02/05/2022 - 11:21

    Surely, the SMS result shows date of test? This combined with the date/time of receipt should be more than enough for HR.

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:36

      I went back to the test site and got a 1300 number to get the result. After looooong waiting with boring music maybe 30 min I hung up without result.

  • oscargamer on 02/05/2022 - 11:46
    +2

    EBA can't overrule legislation.
    Ask for that reply in writing.

    • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:51

      I did it and sent lots of examples in government web site I collected. They stopped responding and I am waiting…

      • orangetrain on 02/05/2022 - 13:03
        +2

        You sent legal/government stuff to that kind of company? I'm sorry but it sounds like you just made yourself a trouble employee by sounding like you are asserting your rights with proof. If I know your kind of company, HR are going to have a meeting with your manager, IT and legal team on how best to get rid of you ASAP ie make your life hell, etc. That's probably why they have gone radio silence, to have an united front against you and destroy any potential case you have against them.

        Best to start applying elsewhere ASAP.

        Next time it's best to play dumb and collect all the evidence.

        • TigerWoops on 03/05/2022 - 22:14
          +2

          I think all employers are same. Current one is best in my experience. My previous employers are way worse.

          • cookie2 on 07/05/2022 - 19:48

            @TigerWoops: Can i ask what industry you are in? Do you have union support you can draw on? Otherwise I'd advise you to call fair work and discuss with them between your eba guidelines and the national employee standards that are your rights. Also what specifically soes your eba state under personal leave?

  • TigerWoops on 02/05/2022 - 11:54

    Finally after waiting for 29min 38seconds I talked to an operator and he sent the result just now. It is Negative.

  • Presence on 02/05/2022 - 12:15
    +1

    Try one of those online doctors. Should have no drama issueing a certificate 👍

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 02/05/2022 - 13:30

      I did this last week, and it said that they could only do it for the day I was sick. This may vary however.

      • Presence on 02/05/2022 - 14:19

        Maybe you were "sick" for longer?!

  • morse on 02/05/2022 - 13:29
    +2

    Some doctors will do retrospective sick notes. Especially if you explain the situation. Maybe book in with a different GP. Show them the evidence that you had the test.

    • TigerWoops on 03/05/2022 - 22:10

      The company offers a pay for the test day as I sent them Covid test result and I gave up the other day pay. I want to be in peace now…. life is….

    • terrys on 05/05/2022 - 15:08

      "Some doctors will do retrospective "

      Not for some years unless they can be certain that the patient is suffering a condition that they can assess the progress of.

      • morse on 05/05/2022 - 17:33
        +1

        Obviously not guaranteed of course. I haven’t had any trouble getting retrospective medical certificates for me or my child but I generally have an ongoing relationship with that gp.

        • cookie2 on 07/05/2022 - 19:49

          The ongoing relationship is key. And with the way medicare and GPs are set up now, many don't have this, even if they want it.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2022 - 14:51
    +1

    You need to contact the testing provider where you obtained the COVID test. They will give you a Confirmation of COVID-19 Testing.

    Alternatively - call 1800 675 398 between 8 am - 6 pm Monday to Friday and follow the prompts to the Confirmation of COVID-19 Testing option
    https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/getting-your-results-covi…

    • TigerWoops on 03/05/2022 - 22:07

      First time I rang them for my result I was waiting for 30min without anyone pick up my call. On the second time I rang them and wait for 29min 38 seconds. Then a guy picked up my call and send me a text message with the result. He has right phone number but I didn't received. Got tested on Tuesday and got result on Monday. Loooooong waiting…

  • brad1-8tsi on 02/05/2022 - 15:15

    Wait. So your employer requires a certificate for all sick leave? I got 3 days without a cert.

    Also, my doctor gave me plenty of certs after I'd been sick. They are so busy they often can't fit you in on the day

    • KSMLJ on 03/05/2022 - 18:38

      Might be news to you, but not all employers wear capes.

      • brad1-8tsi on 04/05/2022 - 14:38

        My employer didn't wear a cape but there's power in a union and I knew what my EBA said.

    • TigerWoops on 03/05/2022 - 22:03

      Just one day is allowed for sick leave without medical certificate.

      • terrys on 05/05/2022 - 15:08

        or statuatory declaration.

  • MercSal on 02/05/2022 - 15:16
    +3

    Some terrible info in this thread.
    * doctors can only issue certs for day they observe you and forward. They can choose to write that in their opinion based on what they saw you would have been unfit for work prior
    * Evidence for personal leave needs to be "evidence that would satisfy a reasonable person". This includes stat decs. Employers hate it, but combined with the Med cert for the later days it should satisfy them.

    While I can't see your EBA obviously, the language will almost certainly be "provide suitable medical evidence". Does your stat dec outline why you wernt able to get a med cert for the earlier days? it should, so consider rewriting it.

    Otherwise, given you have an EBA, join your union.

  • Hardlyworkin on 02/05/2022 - 15:38
    +1

    Refer to section 107(3)(a) of the Fair Work Act 2009 for evidence. A stat Dec isn't specifically mentioned, the evidence would just need to satisfy a reasonable person.

    Stat decs have been known to pass this test though still within a specific context.

    Your EBA will have a dispute resolution clause. Follow these steps (internal escalation) in conjunction with any requirements in your EBA about notice requirements for personal leave.

    • freefall101 on 03/05/2022 - 22:53
      +2

      http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/fwr200…

      Covered under reg 3.01. “ (2) A prescribed kind of illness or injury exists if the employee provides a medical certificate for the illness or injury, or a statutory declaration about the illness or injury”

      Case law does allow limiting this within an EBA in rare cases, but they need to be specific. There was a case where they required a doctors certificate after a public holiday unless otherwise reasonable.

  • ColtNoir on 03/05/2022 - 13:18
    +1

    I refuse to get doctors Certificate‘s if I’m sick now.
    I’m not paying $30+ to see a doctor just to satisfy a micromanaging boss.

    If you want me to see a doctor, pay for it. Send me to your corporate doctor if you really want.

    If you don’t trust that I was actually sick, then jog on.

    Also, sick leave isn’t paid out if you leave, so I recommend taking them all before you quit.

    • cookie2 on 07/05/2022 - 19:51

      Your workplace has a corporate doctor? I don't think OPs is quite the same from what I've gathered.

  • Vote for Pedro on 04/05/2022 - 19:56

    Have you spoken to your union?

  • TigerWoops on 05/05/2022 - 00:30
    +2

    All sorted out now. Thanks for everyone here. Happy ending…

    • terrys on 05/05/2022 - 15:10
      +1

      I'd call it that when the jobsworth in HR has finally obtained a position that suits them a little more.

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