Meat is a carcinogen (WHO)

[Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 13:31
Last edited 04/04/2022 - 07:36 by 2 other users

Is there a concerted attempt to discredit meat benefits and allege other illnesses to meat by food companies and sold out mainstream media?
For example, food companies can make potato chips for 10 cents and sell them for 5 dollars and it is shelf-stable.
Food companies can do monoculture and create fake meat and sell it for 10 times the profit once it reaches the scale.
What products can they make using meat and make 10 times more money and shelf-stable?
Do you believe in any of the medical dogmas like meat causes heart attacks?
Is there any person who doesn't eat any ultra-processed junk and eats the majority of his diet as meat has health issues?

I will say my personal story. When this meat is carcinogen news came I was eating meat weekly once and I was unhealthy. Later I removed ultra-processed junk from my diet and slowly increased the meat in my diet. Eventually eating almost daily now. And I am 20 kgs less weight and healthy as F.

Mod: WHO article for context

Poll Options

  • 61
    Meat is Carcinogenic
  • 517
    Meat is healthy
  • 23
    Eating meat will cause some health problems
  • 118
    Eat less meat to save the planet
  • 20
    Don't eat meat, because I love animals
Food & Grocery

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 13:35
    +41

    I take what I read with a grain of salt. There are ethical concerns with eating meat for sure, but these days it seems everything is a carcinogen

    • GG57 on 01/04/2022 - 13:49
      +3

      But, do you add salt to your meat?

    • pharkurnell on 01/04/2022 - 13:52
      +6

      but these days it seems everything is a carcinogen

      Depends which team is paying for the testing and who is trying to discredit each side the most.

    • Pinchy on 02/04/2022 - 00:35
      +5

      The article doesn’t really say much about meat. It mentions that there isn’t enough evidence to link cancer to red meat. Even no evidence in the difference of cooking methods.

      Unlike processed meats which it talks about more. The evidence of processed mats and bowl cancer has been known for ages.

      • Gekov on 02/04/2022 - 16:11
        +1

        "The evidence of processed mats and bowl cancer has been known for ages."

        CORRECTED VERSION: "The evidence of processed mats and bowel cancer has been known for ages"

        ONLY IF THE PROCESSED MEAT IS PART OF A DIET LACKING IN FIBRE.

        Aside from that, consumption of processed meat, which incidentally is much tastier than unprocessed meat, is no more risky.

        A diet lacking fibre, meat or meatless, is the evidence, although with a vegan diet more fibre is automatically added since vegetables are inherently high in fibre.

        • BartholemewH on 04/04/2022 - 09:44
          +1

          CORRECTED VERSION: "The evidence of processed mats and bowel cancer has been known for ages"

          CORRECTED CORRECTED VERSION: "The evidence of processed meats and bowel cancer has been known for ages"

    • ak47wong on 02/04/2022 - 00:37

      These days? This song is from 40 years ago.

  • rektrading on 01/04/2022 - 13:38
    +16

    Bill Gates and Richard Branson are betting lab-grown meat might be the food of the future
    PUBLISHED FRI, MAR 23 20189:52 AM EDTUPDATED FRI, MAR 23 20187:23 PM EDT

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/bill-gates-and-richard-brans…

    Bill Gates want people to eat his meat.

    • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 13:48
      +1

      Takes twice the resources and five times the energy to make in a lab …
      Not to mention the missing nutrients (CLA, AHA, etc)

      • Settero on 01/04/2022 - 14:01
        +4

        You missed the part where they say "of the future" development could change with a few breakthroughs , definitely has potential.

    • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 14:43

      Firstly he needs to get fitter and say what to eat. Who listens to a person with man boobs

    • Chandler on 04/04/2022 - 11:54
      +2

      Bill Gates want people to eat his meat.

      Well Melinda's not doing it anymore…

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 01/04/2022 - 13:46
    +43

    i reckon the excessive additives they throw into plant based meats are more likely to give you cancer then a balance diet with meat in it.

    • ESEMCE on 01/04/2022 - 14:16
      +11

      Agreed..
      They key here is the word "Balanced"
      Same as most things.. everything in moderation.
      Western Society eats too much meat, and not enough Veg.
      I almost definitely fall into this category despite this knowledge.

    • fantombloo on 01/04/2022 - 14:18
      +3

      Which ones specifically?

      • Miami Mall Alien on 01/04/2022 - 14:33
        +4

        The soy protein (often from GMO sources), bulking agents and copious amounts of salt, refined oils and sh*tty saturated fats they have to put in plant-based meat to make it taste like something.

        • fantombloo on 01/04/2022 - 14:39
          +14

          Again, what specifically?

          Re. soy protein: Where do you find a link between it and cancer? And do you not realise that many plant meats are soy free anyway? And do you not realise that a large percentage of domesticated food animals are fattened with soy anyway?

          Re. salt: do you have a comparison between various plant meats (branded or home made) and various prepared meals of animal flesh?

          Do you realise that many of the most credible nutrition and dietetic associations around the world say that plant based eating is associated with a reduction in various chronic illnesses including certain cancers? (You want sources, just say and I'll post). I know that's not specific to plant meat, but in the light of this and the WHO proclamations I wonder where you get your inclinations from?

          • Miami Mall Alien on 01/04/2022 - 15:19
            -6

            @fantombloo:

            I wonder where you get your inclinations from?

            Experience and common sense.

            Mono diets just don't contain enough of all the minerals, vitamins, fats and essential nutrients the human body needs.

            We're omnivores. Not herbivores and not strict carnivores (though our digestive tract shares much more in common with carnivorous mammals than it does with the herbivorous kind).

            Moderation is key. Going to extremes (i.e. all-meat diets or veganism) is not the solution.

            The reason hominids evolved to become what they are today is in large part due to meat consumption (and especially cooked meat consumption), as the fats and proteins from meat advanced brain growth and evolution due to contributing to the formation of fatty myelin sheaths around axons and neurons, which increased the rate of electrical impulses being sent through the brain and nervous system.

            On a biological, psychological, evolutionary, historical and self-evidentiary basis, meat consumption has an obvious place in the human diet and saying otherwise is ridiculous. As is taking the word of the WHO to be infallible or even trustworthy, especially in light of recent global events of the past 2 years.

            • fantombloo on 01/04/2022 - 15:35
              +12

              @Miami Mall Alien: So much hearsay here, no real evidence or facts.

              We are opportunistic omnivores; we eat whatever is available. Our digestive track in fact has much more in common with herbivores than carnivores, from our mouths which contain saliva that can break down starch, to our arseh*les which are connected to long and windy intestines that function best with plenty of fibre. What do we have uniquely in common with carnivores?

              There is no doubt that the consumption of animal flesh provided our species various advantages in our evolutionary past, and might do so again in a future if we have various types of scarcity, but right now there is no necessity for it at all in any developed society.

              All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as, and probably healthier than omnivorous diets. Here are links to what some of them have to say on the subject:

              Harvard Medical School
              http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming-a-veg…

              Traditionally, research into vegetarianism (see context) focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.

              British Dietetic Association
              https://www.bda.uk.com/foodfacts/vegetarianfoodfacts.pdf

              Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for *all stages of life** and have many benefits.*

              Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704/

              It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

              Dietitians of Canada
              https://www.dietitians.ca/Downloads/Factsheets/Guidlines-for…

              A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.

              The British National Health Service
              http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegandiets…

              With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

              The British Nutrition Foundation
              https://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/helpingyoueatwell…

              Well planned vegetarian and vegan diets can be nutritious and healthy ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

              The Dietitians Association of Australia
              https://daa.asn.au/smart-eating-for-you/smart-eating-fast-fa…

              Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. With good planning, those following a vegan diet can cover all their nutrient bases, but there are some extra things to consider.

              The United States Department of Agriculture
              http://www.choosemyplate.gov/tips-vegetarians

              Vegetarian diets (see context) can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.

              The National Health and Medical Research Council
              https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/file/publications/n55_…

              Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle. Those following a strict vegetarian or vegan diet can meet nutrient requirements as long as energy needs are met and an appropriate variety of plant foods are eaten throughout the day

              The Mayo Clinic
              http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healt…

              A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.

              The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
              https://www.heartandstroke.ca/get-healthy/healthy-eating/spe…

              Vegetarian diets (see context) can provide all the nutrients you need at *any age,** as well as some additional health benefits.*
                • fantombloo on 01/04/2022 - 16:26
                  +5

                  @7ekn00: We all appeal to someone. I've made my authorities clear and they're well respected by a majority of health experts.

                  Who are your authorities?

                  8 out 9 on the WHO panel regarding red meat were vegan/vegetarian

                  More hearsay, or worse.

                    • fantombloo on 01/04/2022 - 17:08
                      +10

                      @7ekn00: What next, you'll send me a link to a televangelist?

                      • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 17:15
                        -7

                        @fantombloo: Oh, so practising doctors experience doesn't count, but opinion pieces on random websites do …. got it, you also like to cherry pick "data" !

                    • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 17:27
                      +14

                      @7ekn00: with all due respect, is he though ?

                      Sending someone a link to a video for a youtube doctor is not the same as being able to corroborate health advice across multiple recognised sources for health advice.

                      Sure you can dismiss the sources as being sponsor driven fake news, and they're all in on it. But then you should also dismiss one person giving an opinion on a platform funded entirely by advertising.

                      I mean think how that comes across to a stranger. "He's a doctor on the internet so you can trust him ! the other doctors hide behind professional organisations and are really just in it for the Coca Cola dollars".

                      • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 17:40

                        @[Deactivated]: So listen to ALL information ….
                        Dismissing one for any reason means you automatically have a bias, just like the above posters bias for veggies …
                        Copying and pasting from a vegan propaganda site isn't any more definitive (try the links above, a good proportion are broken)

                        Dr Gary Fettke had his medical registration suspended for what he said, but actually forced the medical board to look at the actual data and reverse their decision …. if anybody has tried to reverse a medical boards decision, you will know it takes a lot of credible data ;)

                        • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 18:31
                          +5

                          @7ekn00: Yeah look, I actually agree on that. We should listen to ALL information and evaluate it as best as we can.

                          But I'm also a pragmatist and know we can't so the next best thing is to try and eliminate bias where possible, which I take it is your point.

                          My point is simply you can't dismiss public health websites as 'propaganda' and point to YouTube as if that's somehow more legitimate. Its not like you don't have a valid point either outside of this, just that this doesn't really help.

              • mountaineer on 05/04/2022 - 09:22
                +1

                @fantombloo: Meanwhile, as per statistics https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

                4 of the top 5 countries with longest lifespan are known to be omnivores(aka meat eating) , not sure Switzerland but I guess they eat cows too…

                • fantombloo on 05/04/2022 - 19:29

                  @mountaineer: Life expectancy has as much to do with hygiene and medicine and politics - it's only expected that the wealthier counties will do well there, and those are also the ones that due to their affluence will consume the most meat.

          • maverickjohn on 02/04/2022 - 01:39
            +2

            @fantombloo:

            plant based eating is associated with a reduction in various chronic illnesses including certain cancers?

            That's exactly what is required. These processed "plant" based products are not quite plant based diets. The study referred to eating un modified plant based products such as fresh vegetables and legumes etc.

            • sjj89 on 02/04/2022 - 07:54

              @maverickjohn: And meat replacements such as seitan or tofu

            • fantombloo on 02/04/2022 - 09:10
              +1

              @maverickjohn: There's nothing "plant" about the plants in plant meat. They are plant based.

              You are confusing whole food plant based diets (WFPB) with plant based diets - the citations I have provided are for contemporary vegan diets which are not limited to WFPB. There are further studies that show the benefits and drawbacks of WFPB diets but my citations above are not about that.

              If you have specific info on specific plant meats then please share. I find it perplexing that all processed plant meats are being labelled carcinogenic since all brands have different ingredients and formulations, and there are home made versions too.

              • maverickjohn on 02/04/2022 - 11:08

                @fantombloo: I never mentioned carcinogenic just as an FYI. I mentioned that when basing health benefits of a PBD they referred to as you stated whole foods.
                "To get the most out of a vegetarian diet, choose a variety of healthy plant-based foods, such as whole fruits and vegetables, legumes and nuts, and whole grains. At the same time, cut back on less healthy choices, such as sugar-sweetened beverages, fruit juices and refined grains. If you need help, a registered dietitian can assist you in creating a vegetarian plan that's right for you." From mayo clinic.
                In the same token heart dounsation similarly don't mention the meat substitutes
                I actually think "whole plant based diets" is the best diet to have ." There is a place for some people to have a meat. I definitely eat meat. Definitely doesn't mean my diet is great.

                • fantombloo on 02/04/2022 - 17:53

                  @maverickjohn: Sure, that's general advice, for anyone on any diet. Vegans will not suddenly explode or live less than nonvegans if they eat some junk food or plant meats.

          • [Deactivated] on 03/04/2022 - 10:26
            +1

            @fantombloo: Lol. Why are Vegans always so angry? Calm your farm! You could have easily passed along your message without being passive aggressive.

  • Xistn on 01/04/2022 - 13:47
    +45

    This Thread is Carcinogenic.

    • Quantumcat on 01/04/2022 - 13:54
      +23

      OP is carcinogenic

    • cuteseal on 01/04/2022 - 15:31

      Waiting for the April Fools joke…

  • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 13:49
    -4

    The war on meat, it's been going on a lot longer than you realize!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0VwjsZJmYo

  • GG57 on 01/04/2022 - 13:51
    +3

    Is meat eating or mental or physical illness and the extension of ill effects of modern lifestyle?

    • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 13:55

      Generally a lack of fat soluble vitamins (K2, D3, B12, A, E) and excess linoleic acid (omega-6) …

  • pharkurnell on 01/04/2022 - 13:53
    +7

    Pretty sure humans have been eating meat since Ug the cave man wondered the earth 5 billion years ago

    • holdenmg on 01/04/2022 - 13:55
      +1

      Pretty sure Ug wiped out the Dinosaurs.

      • pharkurnell on 01/04/2022 - 14:24
        +1

        Think it was his cousin Urgh..

        • Transient on 01/04/2022 - 14:30
          +2

          and boots were invented by his other cousin, Ugg

    • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 13:56
      +1

      You don't see pictures of ancient humans plowing fields in cave paintings ;) It's all spears and various large animals :P

    • GG57 on 01/04/2022 - 14:39

      I wonder how far they wandered

    • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 16:34
      +14

      Humans used to not bathe every day and a bunch of other things.

      What does "what we used to do" have to do with what we should do now? This argument is always strange to me.

      • pharkurnell on 01/04/2022 - 16:52
        +1

        It was never an issue in the past… why is it magically an issue now?

        • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2022 - 17:01
          +6

          we aren't exactly the same as our 'ancestors'. and the meat we eat isn't exactly the same either.

          There's a difference between a porterhouse and a beef burger.

        • Beanvee on 01/04/2022 - 17:37
          +4

          I mean lots of humans throughout history probably died by cancer, and if meat is carcinogenic then some of them got their cancer from meat. They would just not have known why.

          • BuyOrNot on 02/04/2022 - 11:43
            +1

            @Beanvee: Cancer lot of times is a old person disease, early humans died much earlier from other things to worry about cancer.

        • nigel deborah on 01/04/2022 - 23:47
          +3

          Regardless or whether or not meat is healthy, this is a pretty stupid question. If the hypothesis is that meat is carcinogenic, then it's going to be very difficult to measure the effect it is having on people's health when the life expectancy is <40ys and nobody is collecting data on cause of death (they don't even know what cancer is for starters).

          For all we know, 9/10 cave men would have died from meat eating induced cancer had they reached the age of 60.

        • GrueHunter on 03/04/2022 - 11:32
          +1

          Because we have science now?

          "Magically", lol

        • caitsith01 on 03/04/2022 - 22:00

          Because you aren't going to die age 30 of an infection caused by stepping on a sharp stick or getting mauled by something you are trying to hunt. Cancer is more of an issue when you have a good shot at living into old age, obviously.

      • Maz1 on 02/04/2022 - 09:14
        -1

        It’s still not considered healthy to bathe every day now, so nice try but your point is moot.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2022 - 10:14
          -1

          ah so you're that stinky guy on the train every day.

          Lovely.

          • Maz1 on 04/04/2022 - 12:23

            @[Deactivated]: I don’t take the train friend.

            • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2022 - 13:12

              @Maz1: Good

              • Maz1 on 04/04/2022 - 14:02

                @[Deactivated]: I like how you missed the point intentionally as if to stand by your statement though.

      • Karfaffel on 02/04/2022 - 12:38
        +1

        Some silly straw man arguments here.
        It's not about cause of death of cave people.
        It's about how our physiology evolved in the environment. We have changed our diet significantly in the last 200 years. Evolution takes much longer to affect our physiology. References to the caveman diet simply point to how we adapted to our environment over a timescale that's long enough for this to take place.

  • Ponka on 01/04/2022 - 13:55
    +10

    if I die, i die

    • Kangal on 02/04/2022 - 16:42

      Are you donating some of your meat?

  • CrowReally on 01/04/2022 - 13:55
    +33

    Oh, it's the "sunscreen is a scam" guy (check his post history if you want a refresher of what happens when you decide your own imagination is a suitable alternative to, well, science).

    • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 13:57
      +1

      Yeah, a lack of vitamin D3 from your sunscreen won't affect you in the slightest, just ask the COVID frontline doctors ;)

      • Cluster on 01/04/2022 - 14:22
        +2

        You're almost certainly getting enough sunlight doing ordinary things like walking to your car in the carpark, taking out the rubbish, checking the letterbox, etc. We generally have a problem with far too much sun exposure in Australia, not too little.

        https://www.cancer.org.au/cancer-information/causes-and-prev…

        "When the UV Index is 3 or above (such as during summer), most people maintain adequate vitamin D levels just by spending a few minutes outdoors on most days of the week."

        • 7ekn00 on 01/04/2022 - 14:39
          +7

          Average Vitamin D3 levels say otherwise unfortunately :/ 90% of our patients are deficient!
          It's not just sun, cholesterol is a Vit D precursor, and that is also demonized in the western world.

        • Miami Mall Alien on 01/04/2022 - 14:42
          +7

          We generally have a problem with far too much sun exposure in Australia, not too little.

          Lol, literally everyone I know that has ever had their Vitamin D levels tested has been deficient or borderline deficient.
          The last time I had my mine checked I was around 55-60, which is just above the threshold for being deficient and that was with what I considered to be a fairly healthy lifestyle and the rest of my blood test results being optimal.

          Walking to your car or checking your mailbox (lol) does not ever constitute sufficient sun exposure for Vitamin D synthesis, unless you're living on the sun-lit side of Mercury perhaps.

          You need to have larger parts of skin (not just your face and head) exposed for at least 30 minutes or so, and that's in the midday sun, several times per week.
          If it's earlier or later in the day or if you're darker-skinned, you need longer exposure times.
          If it's a cloudy winter day, you'll need an hour or more outdoors to get sufficient sun exposure.

          Despite being an incredibly sun-soaked country, most middle-class, office workers are chronically Vitamin D deficient. As are the unhealthy/obese (for obvious reasons), the elderly, darker-skinned people and even kids these days with their incredibly sedentary/indoors-based lifestyles spent staring at screens.

          The other issue to consider is the counter-productive byproduct of having organisations such as the Cancer Council drum up so much hysteria about UV-related skin cancers that a lot of Australians end up avoiding the sun like the plague and even when they're outdoors they're wearing so much protective clothing and sunscreen that they'll never get enough sun exposure even if they stay outside for a long time. That's not to say that skin cancer isn't a real concern for Australians but we've over-corrected the problem so much (as is usual) that we're now seriously driving people into a lifetime of Vitamin D deficiency and a long list of related health issues as a result of the whole "tHe AuSsIe sUN wiLL kILL yOu" campaign.

  • netjock on 01/04/2022 - 14:04
    +10

    Is there a concerted attempt to discredit meat benefits and allege other illnesses to meat by food companies and sold out mainstream media?

    No it isn't. Not many people know about the WHO article. The mainstream media have remained quite silent on it. Watch TV I'd suggest you count the number of ads for Pork, Chicken, Beef and Lamb vs for spinach, cabbage, capsicums and mushrooms.

  • djones145 on 01/04/2022 - 14:07
    +9

    two topics in one day
    can't wait for what's next

    • Peter Enis on 01/04/2022 - 14:12
      +14

      "Are rainbows evil?"

      • brendanm on 01/04/2022 - 14:16
        +16

        They do look like a frown…

      • Cluster on 01/04/2022 - 14:17
        +1

        Double rainbows certainly are

      • djones145 on 01/04/2022 - 14:24

        Will There Ever Be a Rainbow?

      • spackbace on 01/04/2022 - 14:35
        +5

        OP believes so, something something LGBTQIA+

        • holdenmg on 01/04/2022 - 17:10

          ROYBGIV lol

      • GrueHunter on 03/04/2022 - 11:33

        First colour in rainbows is RED

        Rainbows are CCCP plot to brainwash people to putting Communism first

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