Is Shopping Centre Management Liable for Tyre Damage from Pothole?

dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:01
Last edited 30/03/2022 - 20:27 by 1 other user

I had the unfortunate experience of hitting a pot hole when entering the driveway in my local shopping complex.
It was after dark and light conditions were not ideal. By the time I saw the pothole it was too late and I went over it.
The car thumped really hard but I thought all is well. I parked my car to shop then came back to the car to go home after 15 minutes then realised that my front right tyre is flat. Turns out hitting that pothole resulted in sidewall damage and now I'm out of pocket 430 bucks to replace the front pair of tyres (only 1 tyre damaged but apparently tyres should be changed in pairs at a minimum)

  • Council confirmed this section of the driveway is private land and I need to seek compensation from the private land owner
  • Spoke to property manager of this shopping complex and while he was initially receptive and I was half hopeful they will just admit liability and pay up, he has now changed his stance and told me he doesn't see how it's their fault when there are pot holes everywhere in Brisbane at the moment due to severe rain event.

The centre in question is Big Top Mt Gravatt in Brisbane.
Who is liable for this damage? I would have thought it's centre management's duty of care to maintain the driveway. If they are liable, are they liable for the other front tyre I have to change at the same time too or is that my bad luck?
At this stage the property manager is saying he will inspect the pothole tomorrow and call me tomorrow.

Aerial map of where the pot hole is: https://i.imgur.com/r2mbiqP.jpg
Some pics of the offending pothole:
https://i.imgur.com/jzVEGlG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L2ibBOG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fol8WV4.jpg

My S22 Ultra night shot did too good of a job with these pics. Actual lighting conditions were far worse.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • Crow K on 30/03/2022 - 19:11
    +1

    "At this stage the property manager is saying he will inspect the pothole tomorrow and call me tomorrow."

    Wait and see what he says tomorrow. If he offers to pay for the car damage [when you show he receipt], we can probably sidestep all the speculation. He'll likely pay for the damaged tire but not the undamaged one.

  • websterp on 30/03/2022 - 19:11
    +11

    Sheesh! How fast were you driving on that narrow entry lane if the porthole caused that much damage?

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:12
      -2

      And how did you come to the conclusion I was driving fast exactly?
      Have you driven through a pot hole this big and deep with a 35 profile tyre?

      • brendanm on 30/03/2022 - 20:02
        +8

        And how did you come to the conclusion I was driving fast exactly?

        You have damaged the sidewall of your tyre on a pothole. This doesn't happen if you are going slowly.

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:28

          Yes and it has never happened to me either even after hitting pot holes on main roads doing 60km/h

    • solidussnake on 30/03/2022 - 20:29

      Nah he was in a rush to get into JB at 5.29 to quote prices on TVs he intends on buying at the end of the year come on mate be reasonable 😉

  • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:15

    I had the unfortunate experience of hitting a pot hole when entering the driveway in my local shopping complex.

    Only skim-read after that…

    Are they also liable if you go over a speed-bump too quickly?

    No…

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:16

      Speed bumps are designed to slow down cars. This is not a speed bump lol omg…
      So why do TMR compensate motorists for damage caused by potholes then?

      • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:17
        -5

        zomg lol den use need c0mP3n5ashunz

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:18

          Sure… very mature and hence makes sense that you were using a completely irrelevant scenario in your original post

          • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:21
            +1

            @dji1111111:

            This is not a speed bump lol omg…

            very mature

            Yup…

      • jackary on 30/03/2022 - 19:26

        Since when do TMR compensate motorists for damage from potholes? Do you have any source for this?

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:27
          -3

          Seriously? People have zero idea about their rights these days…

          https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/conditions/report/claim

          • jackary on 30/03/2022 - 19:28

            @dji1111111: Thanks. No need to be rude

          • brendanm on 30/03/2022 - 20:05
            +1

            @dji1111111:

            If your vehicle or property has been damaged by the condition of infrastructure or works managed by the Department of Transport and Main Roads, you may be able to submit a compensation claim. This may include damage caused by the condition of:

            My highlighting.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:14

            @dji1111111:

            whether we knew or should have known about the hazard

            Yet you didn't report this pothole, that you knew about, to centre management ;)

      • brendanm on 30/03/2022 - 20:04

        So why do TMR compensate motorists for damage caused by potholes then?

        They don't.

  • rektrading on 30/03/2022 - 19:18
    +3

    https://i.imgur.com/jzVEGlG.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/L2ibBOG.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/fol8WV4.jpg

    The pothole looks properly lit.

    It's the driver's fault for not taking precautions when exiting the main road.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:19

      It's not. It's the night mode on my phone camera that made it look well lit. Not that it matters but I was entering, not exiting.

      Proper care? Not like I hit a wall that's meant to be there. This is a driveway designed for cars to drive on

      • rektrading on 30/03/2022 - 19:26
        +1

        Not that it matters but I was entering, not exiting g

        I said exiting the main road.

        Have you driven through a pot hole this big and deep with a 35 profile tyre?

        Low profile drivers should always take precautions when exiting the main road.

  • Hybroid on 30/03/2022 - 19:18
    +5

    I wouldn't say centre is liable for your repairs. I'm sure plenty of cars have passed over it just fine. You could and should have avoided it. Looks like plenty of light poles and you have headlights too.

    You also don't necessarily need to replace both tyres unless they are significantly different condition.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:20
      -2

      Not all cars go over pot holes on the road either. That alone does not mean anything.

      • Hybroid on 30/03/2022 - 19:20
        +5

        It appears you're looking for confirmation bias for what you want to hear, rather than actually care what people have to think, so, good luck.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:23

      The driveway is on a slight incline as you enter and the headlights don't lit that section until very late.
      Light poles in the picture are long way off and do not lit this section of the driveway. My phone is just too good with night shot I suppose?

  • 7ekn00 on 30/03/2022 - 19:27
    +4

    Hit any pothole at 100km/h and your tyre will go flat … says a lot that your first instinct is a blame shift ;)

    Plenty of dough with 35 profile tyres and a s22u flex, may as well buy an SUV for going over pot holes :P

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:55

      100km/h? lol Logan road speeed limit is 60km/h dude.

      Here's tall poppy syndrome. Yes, $430 bucks won't even leave a dent in my account. happy now?

      how is someone's wealth relevant?

      How is a mobile phone a flex anyway lol Even school kids carry flagship phones these days

      Maybe it's a flex for you only. I would never even think to flex with merely a phone

  • Drakesy on 30/03/2022 - 19:28
    +3

    For you to claim compensation you'd have to prove negligence by the shopping centre.

    It's a tough one with regard to who owns the road there, it looks to be in the road reserve if it lines up with the aerial, this would more than likely fall under council.
    Additionally they have previously filled the pothole so they know of it, now negligence would be if they've left it there for a long period of time (this would be where your proof lies).

    If you have access to Nearmaps which take monthly satellite pictures you make then be able to find evidence of the failure of the pothole. If it's been there in that state for more than say 2 weeks (given it's a high traffic area) then you may have a case as potholes are a serious safety hazard for motorbikes and cars alike.

    Admittedly though, driving over this at speed enough to puncture your tyre and cause the sidewall to fail, with the lighting the way it is, the council/shopping centre may have a counter argument.

    Just had a look at nearmap
    The pothole failed somewhere between Nov 20 and Jan 24th and if it's still failed then it's been like that for a couple of months
    Our state Mainroads have a policy where they are exempt from claims if the tyre profile is 40 percent or less (which would include your tyre) Here so you may be SOOL

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 19:58

      yes, I know this pothole was there for quite a while. I have previously dodged it during day time but completely forgot it's there this time and the armchair critics are busy accusing me of doing 100km/h but I would have been doing 20kmh max. there is a speed bump soon after that section so I was slowing down anyway.
      The pot hole is right where the driveway changes to darker coloured bitumen and is very hard to see.

      • Drakesy on 30/03/2022 - 20:00
        +4

        Just FWIW, you've acknowledged it's existence and therefore admitted you new it was there. This wouldn't go very far in court as it could be construed as you knowingly hit a pothole.

        Fingers crossed centre management doesn't have an OZB account.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:06
          +1

          aaand even worse, doubt OP ever reported it to centre management - so they could fix it.

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:08
          +1

          I disagree. It's not my responsibility to remember this every time I enter the complex. It's their duty of care to monitor and fix it.
          Unless I drove over it intentionally to claim damage but why the heck would I purposely get stranded at carpark with flat tyre just to claim reimbursement of tyre cost

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:09

            @dji1111111: I take that as a no, you didn't report it.

            • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:17

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: no I didn't

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:24

                @dji1111111: Well, since you've publicly called out the property management of the land this incident occurred, you better hope no one sends them a link to this thread….

                • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:31

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: That's fine. I have nothing to hide. It only proves that their claim that this was from the recent rain event is BS and they have been slack with managing the driveway for months now.
                  I'm not their tenant. I have no obligation to report issues with their property to them

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:35
                    +1

                    @dji1111111: IANAL

                    The tort of damages - you are claiming they are responsible for your damage and loss - also requires you to act reasonably to avoid or mitigate your damage and loss ;)

  • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:28
    +5

    Found the spot

    And your picture shows it as being right where the road colour changes… which is right next to a light pole

    With light pole in frame looking from same angle

    • rektrading on 30/03/2022 - 19:34
      +3

      The road looks flat.

      How can drivers driving 10 km/h not see the pothole?

      The pothole is closer to the middle of the road than on the side where wheels would normally dip.

      • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:39
        +1

        The road looks flat.

        Not far off

      • brendanm on 30/03/2022 - 20:35
        +1

        but I would have been doing 20kmh max

        According to op.

    • Drakesy on 30/03/2022 - 19:36
      +2

      Geez the red circle is way off in the OP's post

      and that light can't be any closer.

      • spackbace on 30/03/2022 - 19:38
        +2

        Geez the red circle is way off in the OP's post

        Yeah they've definitely marked the wrong spot on the aerial view

      • rektrading on 30/03/2022 - 19:43

        The red mark is about 76m away from the pothole.

      • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:00

        Honest mistake. I thought that's the section where the bitumen colour changes.
        Light is there but the pot hole is right on the section where the bitumen colour changes to black and is very hard to see at night

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:32

      thanks for pointing out that it's where the road colour changes. a dark hole over dark bitumen at night is not easily seen.

  • SBOB on 30/03/2022 - 19:32
    +3

    It's only negligent if you can show they were aware of it at the time and did nothing to resolve it
    Heavy rains recently, doesnt take long for pot holes to increase in size

    Sometimes, sh&t happens….try it on with them, but if they respond no I'd just move on and probably reasses my wheel choices (or driving cautiousness) if such a pot hole is going to cost you 400 bucks every time.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:04

      Well, the pothole has been there for a while. I've seen it before but on this occasion I forgot it's there and it's not easily seen as it's right where it transitions to darker bitumen.

      Wheel choice? The wheels are stock wheels.

  • pharkurnell on 30/03/2022 - 19:43
    +6

    No they arent.
    Go buy your tyre and live happily ever after.

    The End.

  • Peter Enis on 30/03/2022 - 19:47

    Well, I never knew that place was called Big Top. I just call it Little Bunnings.
    Anyway thanks for the heads up.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:23

      Not what I knew it by also. I just tell people where Logan Rd Bunnings is.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 19:47

    Make and model of car?
    Brand of rim and tyre?
    Speed you were doing?

  • Leanne59 on 30/03/2022 - 19:51
    +1

    Not sure where you took the car for a new tyre but think you might have been ripped off. I got a flat in my front left front tyre and took it to Bob Janes and they only charged and changed one tyre.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:02

      I didn't get ripped off. I looked up whether it's ok to change just one tyre and the consensus is it could cause issues with uneven wear and wheel alignment. My current tyres already have 20,000-30,000km on them with maybe another 15000-20000km life remaining

  • JimmyF on 30/03/2022 - 19:54
    +1

    Actual lighting conditions were far worse

    That's why your car has headlights……

    I had the unfortunate experience of hitting a pot hole when entering the driveway in my local shopping complex.
    It was after dark and light conditions were not ideal. By the time I saw the pothole it was too late and I went over it.

    So driving without your lights on, and/or two fast for the driving conditions to see the road ahead?

    You must have hit that pothole with some speed, as it looks like like a pretty easy pothole to get through that wouldn't cause sidewall damage to me!

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:06

      A lot of assumptions. Yes, I wasn't doing walking pace but wasn't doing crazy speed like many are suggesting.
      i did have headlights on. with the combination of slight incline and the location of the pothole, it's very hard to see

      • JimmyF on 30/03/2022 - 20:08
        +2

        If you had your headlights on, driving at a 'safe' speed for the conditions then how did you miss seeing a pot hole under the street light right next to it?

        There had been hundreds of cars using that ramp a day, how many had tyre issues? Surely there must have been a pile of cars with flat tyres?

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:10

          During the day it's visible. After dark it's hard to see. Well, how do you know how many had tyre issues anyway? some may not even think to make a claim also

          • JimmyF on 30/03/2022 - 21:41

            @dji1111111:

            After dark it's hard to see.

            You should get your headlights looked at as well to the sounds of it.

            Well, how do you know how many had tyre issues anyway?

            Well the way you're talking there should have been a pile of cars with busted tyres from hitting that pothole.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 30/03/2022 - 20:06

    Any photo from your tyre?

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:16

      Not much visible damage. I could only locate the point of damage when I pumped some air in it and traced back to where it's leaking from.
      It's the dirty patch of the sidewall above the letter K.

      https://i.imgur.com/lwinf9z.jpg

  • WreckTangle on 30/03/2022 - 20:16
    +3

    Aren’t carparks like 5-10 km per hour?

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:22

      This was not in the carpark. this is a long driveway that runs parallel to main road. Yes it is 10km/h right from where the pot hole is.
      I was slowing down anyway as there is a speed bump soon after this section.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 20:31
        +3

        OP, just imagine for a second it was a small child crossing the road instead of a pothole.

        You aren't fooling us. You were likely decelerating on the skinny little ramp doing a very fast speed. Your tyre choice indicates your car is not a boring old family minivan.

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:33

          I happily admit I wasn't doing 10km/h but not crazy dangerous speed as you are suggesting lol

          the ramp is not skinny. it's pretty wide.

          If I was doing such a high speed, I don't think my tyres would look like there is no damage to naked eyes

            • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:41

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I did 18km/h it appears. Is that such a highly dangerous speed? lol
              Wow.. slower than someone running.
              And this is for the section preceding the pot hole. I would have been slower at the point of impact

              • Screamingeagle on 30/03/2022 - 21:44
                +1

                @dji1111111:

                Yes it is 10km/h right from where the pot hole is.

                I did 18km/h it appears. Is that such a highly dangerous speed? lol

                I probably wouldn't share with the company that you were doing 80% over the posted speed limit, particularly if you are trying to get them to payout for damages.

  • MS Paint on 30/03/2022 - 20:38
    +1

    Lol

  • pegaxs on 30/03/2022 - 20:44
    +6

    LOL. That pothole didn't cause the damage, 35 series profile or not. It's not that deep and the edges are not that sharp. And even if it did, you were not doing "10km/h" when you hit it. I am going to hazard a guess that to compress a tyre in a pot hole that size enough for it to collapse it onto the rim enough to cut the sidewall, either you were going rooly rooly fast or the tyre was already damaged and/or was nearly flat and had no pressure in it to keep it's structural integrity.

    And if they are liable, they are not liable for both tyres because you thought it was a good idea to replace them as a "pair".

    It sounds more like to me that you (fropanity) the tyres elsewhere and this pothole just seemed like it was in a convenient location and you went clutching at the correlation straws and not so much the causation.

    Either way, bung it on, see what they say and let us know. Maybe if you get them to pay for the damage, you can post it as a deal.

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:47
      -3

      Wow this community is really toxic lol
      You certainly can deduce a lot (or should I say make wild guesses?) Sitting at your computer screen.
      Is 18kmh average speed along that section fast? I would have slowed further at the point of impact

      • jv on 30/03/2022 - 20:49
        +6

        Wow this community is really toxic

        Some people can't handle the truth…

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:50

          Oh no… not the resident "got nothign better to do than post pointless jokes and remarks on every post" guy…

          • jv on 30/03/2022 - 20:50
            +3

            @dji1111111: You just proved my point… LOL

            • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 20:51
              -1

              @jv: Whatever Mr not funny.

              • jv on 30/03/2022 - 20:52
                +2

                @dji1111111:

                Mr not funny.

                Oh… I am so hurt by that comment…. 😂

      • MS Paint on 30/03/2022 - 20:51
        +4

        Not toxic just devils advocate. We challenge what doesn't seem quite right based on collective experience.

      • Dan_ on 30/03/2022 - 20:58
        +3

        Show us the dashcam footage so we can put the speed question to rest.

        • jv on 30/03/2022 - 21:00
          +2

          That would be considered self-incrimination…

          They should seek legal advise first…

        • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 21:11

          haha some idiot went as far as accusing me of damaging my tyre elsewhere and then trying to blame the pothole for the puncture all from the comfort of his computer. What's next?
          I think I'm done with this waste of time.
          Been there done that. Reminds me of the time someone asked about claiming warranty on a TV that's past warranty period. Every idiot here blasted him for expecting warranty. Very few people supported him with actual knowledge of consumer rights, including me and he eventually came back to say he did succeed in claiming warranty under ACL.
          It's a frequent occurrence here not to mention tall poppy syndrome.

          First time learning that using the latest smart phone is something to brag about lol
          WOW if that's something to brag about, holy hell you have no idea how much I have to brag about .

          • pegaxs on 30/03/2022 - 21:27
            +2

            @dji1111111: Sorry, all I read was “I came for confirmation bias and I’m not happy I didn’t get any. And to all the people that won’t coddle me with that bias, youse are all toxic…”

            Anyway, good luck with you damage claim, champ.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 21:45

            @dji1111111: Yet you didn't respond to this post lmao

            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/11946268/redir

            also you won't say what car and rims you are driving ;) I wonder why?

    • dji1111111 on 30/03/2022 - 21:13

      The hole is at least 8cm deep. you don't think that's deep? lol
      you must go offroad driving all the time.
      My car doesn't even fare well over speed bumps

      • pegaxs on 30/03/2022 - 21:37

        8cm is about 3 inches (or about as long as your middle finger). That isn’t deep by any stretch of the imagination.

        The opposite side of the hole that you are claiming would do the damage is not a sharp edge and has a ramp up angle. Dropping off a 3 inch lipped edge is not going to cause a tyre to compress enough to cut the sidewalls and running up a ramped edge is also not going to cause the type of damage you are “claiming”.

        The evidence that you have that the pothole did the damage is correlation. Or a strong basis for “proof”.

      • JimmyF on 30/03/2022 - 21:44

        My car doesn't even fare well over speed bumps

        So the issue is the car, not the pothole then….

  • Moderatorscrimshaw on 30/03/2022 - 21:53

    Thread closed by request.

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