Sources for Deals on Espresso Machines

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  contrafibularities on 20/03/2022 - 12:09

  +4

  Join coffeesnobs they have deals posted there all the time; both new and second hand.

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  Banj0 on 20/03/2022 - 12:35

  +1

  I have the Silvia. Good machine. Personally I don't like the E version though (it cuts out after half an hour idle). Need to learn to temperature surf, but there is power in knowing how to do this. Most days I pull two or three shots on it for myself and family.

  The Casa is close to the Silvia. Slightly bigger boiler. I read it has a pressurestat, presumably as opposed to a thermostat as the Silvia has. Either way, it probably doesn't have the temperature stability of a PID machine, and you'll still be surfing.

  The Silvano is in interesting machine. Similar boiler size to Casa, but uses a seperate pump and a thermoblock for steam. If you like milk coffees, I would have a read up on this and see if the steam from the Silvano is as good as boiler steam.

  On milk drinks, none of these are going to have the steaming power of a cafe machine. The boilers are simply too small. However, if you 'surf' the steam you can have a very high pressure dry steam and produce an excellent milk texture.

  Temperature surfing, if you're not aware, is the practice of becoming familiar with the heating cycle of the boiler. A thermostat controlled boiler like the Silvia can swing 10 degrees. Mine will flash boil from the group head at the top of the cycle, and at the bottom of the cycle it doesn't really produce a very nice coffee. So, I end up doing flushes and counting in order to catch the temperature at (what I think) is the right point. On the plus side, it's an excellent learning experience, and you can adjust your routine for different roasts of coffee (some might be better with a slightly hotter water, and others slightly cooler).

  If you REALLY want the best machine for milk based espresso, then you want a dual boiler. Something with a really good size of steam boiler.

  • 

    kiitos on 20/03/2022 - 13:48

    +1

    Would a dual boiler produce better milk based coffee than a single boiler with a PID? I thought dual boilers are good for making many milk based coffee at the one time.

    • 

      Banj0 on 20/03/2022 - 14:56

      +2

      Hmmm…interesting point. Obviously with a single boiler you're probably only going to steam milk for two coffees max, and then you'll be running the boiler back down to espresso temp, and pulling shots, then bringing it back up to steam temp again for the next ones (depending whether you steam milk first or pull shots first). Obviously a dual boiler has a big advantage here, and so would a HX machine. PID machine should give a better steam, but I wouldn't expect the Silvano mentioned above to keep up the steam for too long given that it has a 400ml boiler.

      A dual boiler will often have a much larger steam boiler (even a HX machine would usually have a larger boiler). The Silvia, for example, has a pretty small boiler really (under 400ml I think?). Take a look at the Silvia pro (DB) though, and the steam boiler in that is 1 litre. Bound to have better steam. Silvia Pro also uses PID (on the steam boiler too though? I'm not sure).

      Let's pick an excellent little HX machine - the MaraX. This thing is PID controlled, and I believe it's doing so at the head. So the HX boiler is being run to keep the brew temperature consistent (which, by all accounts, it does an excellent job of). It packs a 1.8l boiler! Should produce excellent steam then, but I've read that the steam pressure/temp can vary a bit, since it's heating the boiler to suit the temp in the head fed by the HX.

      At least…that's what I think. Happy to be corrected.

      Complicated stuff….but I come down on the side of saying, a big steam boiler is better than a small one (or a HX machine with a big boiler, which may be compromising on steam pressure/temp to suit the brew), regardless of PID or not. Dual boiler usually has a big steam boiler - just for steam - and so I expect it to perform better.

      I think I'd get better steam out of my Silvia for sure with a PID, but the element simply doesn't have the grunt to keep that steam coming out at full pressure for much more than a largeish pitcher of milk (perhaps with 300ml cold milk). I work mine (without PID) by catching it just before I expect the steam thermostat to cut off - if I do this just right I get excellent steam. I wouldn't expect a PID machine to do noticeably better, since I'm essentially forcing the thermostat to remain on throughout the entire steaming process.

      One dy I may get the finance minister to approve a nice DB machine. Probably a used one. No compromise on steam then.

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  Calcifer on 21/03/2022 - 00:59

  Thank you for the detailed input! Great stuff. And will definitely check out coffeesnobs

  I'm not in a massive rush. It's only my enthusiasm pushing me hard to pick something