Around 75% of electricity generation in Australia is from Fossil fuels.
This means 75% of the electricity used by EV's is from Fossil fuels.
How is that justifable by any measure?
And it could be much more if EV owners are charging when the sun isn't shining.
This is wrong and EV owners should be taxed at the highest possible rate
spent $10.3 in fossil fuel SUBSIDIES last year?
Doesn't seem that much when you see it written down :)
hahah.. whoops.. yes.. missed out the BILLION
Of note those subsidies include tax write offs that any business can claim, but yes I agree we should tax fossil fuels instead. And stop investing in carbon capture, which is a huge waste of money and is basically free money for fossil fuel companies.
So if I get this right we are using polluting coal powered stations to charge electric motor vehicles, doesn't
seem a good idea to me. And why are these electric vehicles so expensive?
Read the thread - there is a lot less pollution mining then burning coal to create electricity than there is in the mining, processing, and transport of petroleum.
And once you consider that a greater and greater share of the grid is becoming sourced from renewable energy, it is a no-brainer.
Fair enough. We have solar so in our case could use that and we only do about 7,000kms a year, but many have good cars or new or near new, so going to be many years for us before we changeover, our car is 3 years old, cost $79k, is 3 years old and done 20,000 kms
Yeah it will take a long time for there to be a significant percentage of electric cars on the road considering how long they last. I wanted to buy an electric car when I bought mine a few years ago but hard to justify the extra $10-$20k or so
This is wrong and EV owners should be taxed at the highest possible rate
Perhaps … but then ICE owners should be taxed several times more at even the highest possible rate as they are the worst polluters of all.
Fair is fair.
Musk is in Ukraine….. why you would ask… bc he has a vested interest in the rear earths…. that is what all this is about
That a bit backwards.
??
This means 75% of the electricity used by EV's is from Fossil fuels.
perhaps not. I don't believe your logic is correct. Home solar is more likely to be used charging the car than smelting aluminium. I guess also wind or hydro power, because of it's variability, is also less likely to be used for heavy industry than for EV charging.
How is that justifable by any measure?
Even if your first premise was true its a 25% reduction from the 100% of the past.
Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
Home solar is more likely to be used charging the car than smelting aluminium. I guess also wind or hydro power, because of it's variability, is also less likely to be used for heavy industry than for EV charging.
Electricity doesn’t go to specific locations. It all gets pumped into a big grid and distributed to everyone who uses it. When you purchase ‘green power’ you aren’t getting special enviro sparks delivered to you, you are just paging a little extra to allow them to find a windmill or some panels that pump into the same lines as the coal fired plant
Home solar may be the exception but it will only be ‘directed’ to charging a car if the car is connected when the sun is shining and the array is producing excess for the household needs.
What do you drive OP?
Probably steampunk from all the hot air they put out :P
energy generated from coal fire plants are still more efficient than ICE
This is obviously Daniel Andrews speaking since he is the one who introduces the ZLEV tax. GTFO DA.
Nice troll post
Lol
Good troll post. I liked it.
I charge EV during weekend using Solar, and when I WFH Wednesday. Travel 86km per day, 4 days a week and I bit on weekend.
6.6kw/SMA5kw inverter
PV yield (kWh)
39.468
39.903
32.875
40.365
42.597
37.608
Rather than tax EVs , why not encourage renewable energy? Or is it an excuse to justify the current use of ICE vehicles and your love of your current vehicle?
Those are summer figures and you live in Perth that has less cloud cover than east coast.
screw the environment
i just dont want to pat $2,00+ for fuel
pretty simple
you will find that people like the OP argue in bad faith really dont care about the environment either, they just want a contrarian talking point… ultimately useless idiots, not even a useful idiot
They already are taxed at the highest rate in Victoria.
- Early adopter tax buying the EV
- Income Tax
- GST on their fossil fuel via power grid
- 2.5c / KM driving with that new EV tax
Only the 2.5c per km is a new tax by the state.
We have a Outlander PHEV and 100% is from our 12Kw Growatt batteries ($6000 RRP)
Getting 40KM free everyday is great, instead of selling that 10Kw to Origin for $1.80.
Australia has abundant sunshine throughout the year. The sun is free and clean except initial setup cost. Fossil fuel is the main revenue so it has to be consumed and sold.
Endgame?
Brits told work from home three days a week and ban cars on Sundays to beat Putin energy crisis
Subscribe to the GB News YouTube channel https://t.co/Wa58gYYAod
Dumbest post ever
When an illogical person TRIES.to use logic, the result is usually illogical; as in this case. The small percentage of people who own EVs are likely to be using their own solar power to charge their cars and NOT be using much fossil fuel generated power. The REAL issue, that he has ignored, is that Australia is still obtaining 75% of their electricity from fossil fuels (HIS figure). When this is honestly addressed by a federal government (which the current one is incapable of doing), then this percentage of fossil fuel generation will decrease and OP will have less illogic to abuse.
Well first of all, it's better than an ICE car that uses 100% of fossil fuels. So that quashes your argument.
Then, we are slowly yet surely increasing usage of renewable resources for power generation. So again, that quashes your argument.
Further, as mentioned by others here, EV owners have higher proportion of having solar panels, compared to the average population. So yet again, that completely annihilates your argument.
p.s. have you guys realised that this OP hasn't posted a single reply to this thread? This OP is just flaming.
I don't think EV are the solution but they are at least a step in the right direction.
I honestly believe that most people would buy an EV if it was within their price range and there were more available within the used car market.
I drive an ICE a lot for my job and it's getting both expensive and depressing. My car is reasonably efficient but the fact that I am always driving let's me really get an impression of how much I am using. At this point it feels like filling up is the equivalent of drawing blood from a dying planet, and it is hard not to feel guilty.
I like cars and enjoy driving, but it's becoming harder and harder to consider these things to be an innocent hobby.
I like Tesla but I do think that people judge EV broadly because of their opposition to the company and the decisions they have made with their cars. I just want a regular car with an electric engine, I don't want all of the other shit.
Tesla owners are as polarising as Elon Musk.
Absolutely. I don't think it applies to all of them, but there are enough annoying people to tarnish public opinion. You get all of the luxury vehicle flex points with bonus points for being an eco-warrior.
It's the same deal with veganism. I think more people are opposed to vegans than they are the actual idea.
@thanatos350: IMO you get extra bonus points for getting a non Tesla ev. A leaf or a Kona takes some real commitment.
Well you need a couple of detail changes which would make it more convincing, but I agree with you to some degree. My lengthy post for this is in the reply to another poster above.
I do believe that they should taxed for road usage now that they are not required to contribute to the fuel excise (ready to be flamed here…)
32.4% electricity from renewables averaged over the past year over all states except WA.
32.3% electricity from renewables averaged over the past year in WA.
Internet troll / child. Why not try contributing a solution instead of just negging a potential option that could get us off fossil fuels? If we make electricity renewable it has 'less' (not 0) impact than purely using fossil fuels to power cars.
Cars whether electric or not are not the solution. Cars and roads, and other infrastructure (car parks, fuel stations) require regular maintenance, significant money and resources we are running out of.
The real solution is to improve public infrastructure which allows people to make a choice between different modes of transport.
Improve public transportation and alternative infrastructure such as bike paths.
Coal power plants are fairly far away from population centres. Cars are blowing pollution out right outside your house.
Tell that to the rabid greenies.
The States should charge per km every year when paying for registration.
Drive more, pay more.
OP thinks he's being smart but they're just the dumbest c * n t s on the planet
there is no perfect solution
life is often full of partial solutions that move you towards where you really should be
1stly, there are no car makers here
Elon doesnt sit there in Fremont thinking… ":oh Australia generates 75% of power from coal, so therefore we shouldnt sell there… OP is is S-M-A-T… smart"
by the same token he's not saying we should sell more in France who gets most of their power from nukes or the Scandinavians who get theirs from geothermal…
as much as i love fossil fuels the reality is that even stuff like moving 50% of people to EVs means a substantial improvement in air quality so that we should be seeing health benefits straight away
people should know Australia has some of the highest percentages of asthma in the world
we should be moving to more renewable energy sources… if we move to EVs as well at the same time this is good all round
or do we act like stupid assholes and wait until we're all renewable… or all dead
oh right this is Australia, probably the latter… should be allow LNP poor energy policy dictate every aspect of our lives???
OP thinks the grid will forever be fossil fueled.
Hasn't heard of solar panels, even if you're charging at night your daily export offsets your nightly use.
Hasn't taken into account EVs emit no fumes ( both bad to health and global warming) and produce no noise pollution.
Doesn't know oils from ICE vehicles break down asphalt and wear out our roads sooner.
and produce no noise pollution.
Not exactly true, there’s plenty of tyre noise. At least they don’t make extra noise at idle or acceleration.
there’s plenty of tyre noise
Tell that to the people who regularly step out in front of my electric car
Um most ev owners would have solar panels exporting 4x more than importing.
And have you heard of the future?
Around 100% of petrol is made from petrol.
This means 100% of the petrol used by ICE's is from Fossil fuels.
How is that justifable by any measure?
And it could be at least 25% less if ICE owners switched to EV's.
This would be good and EV ownership should be incentivised through tax breaks.
Around 100% of petrol is made from petrol.
Did you hear about E10? It contains 10% of ethanol produced from agricultural sources.
*Hydrocarbons?
My anti vax / conservative friend was also going in man unprompted rant against Tesla the other day. Maybe these guys are all listening to the same channel.
Your maths doesn't add up.
Should OP take the advice of his own user name?
/r/im14andthisisdeep
Firstly, even If your statement of 75% use of fossil fuels is accurate, at worst it's 25% less than ICE cars
Secondly, there is the option of using renewable energy to generate electricity, which is only becoming more and more available and will be even more in future, especially when everyone has an EV.
Then your conclusion that EV's should be taxed at the highest rate is stupid, ignorant and just plain ridiculous!
Electric cars are still using less than 100% fossil fuel, even if it's not totally clean energy coming from the electric grid. So they beat ICE vehicles right out of the gate.
Now factor in the life of the car. Where will the electricity grid be in 20 years?
Hopefully we have a bunch of new nuclear plants and the entire grid is carbon free.
Hopefully we have a bunch of new nuclear plants and the entire grid is carbon free.
I’d rather we didn’t go down the nuclear road. Yes, it’s efficient, doesn’t create carbon emissions and doesn’t depend on the wind or sunshine but unless we work out some new technology it will still have a legacy of radioactive waste to deal with.
I’d rather the entire grid is powered by sustainable renewable energy. Ie think outside the box of big power stations providing base load and move to storage, micro generation and smart usage.
Radioactive waste is not really a major problem to deal with.
If we don't build new nuclear plants then we will still be using large amounts of fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.
It is just not possible to power the country with only wind and solar.
Radioactive waste is not really a major problem to deal with
That’s been said quite a few times in the past about things that are now a problem. Something that has a half life measured in thousands of years and causes significant environmental and health problems could quite easily be a major problem.
@Euphemistic: The volume is very small though, vastly less than all the other toxic wastes that we already deal with.
@Euphemistic: Think of it this way.
An average person uses around 562,500 kWh of electricity over a lifetime. (Randomly googled this, but the exact number doesn't matter)
To produce that energy with coal takes 562,500 / 8 kWh/kg = 70 tonnes of coal.
To produce with uranium-235 takes 562,500 / 24,000,000 kWh/kg = 23 grams. Which is only just over one cubic centimetre…
Your entire lifetime of electricity from a piece of fuel the size of a small dice.
@trapper: It’s not how much of it you use, but the amount of damage it could cause that’s the issue. There’s what. 8 billion of us on the planet? That’s a lot of dice.
There’s also the cost of building and operating these nuclear plants which is not insignificant.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/environment/c…
Let’s see if we can get a Mr Fusion working instead because fossil fuel base load isn’t the answer either.
@Euphemistic: Mr Fusion isn't going to help us in the next 20+ years - if they actually succeed in getting it to work at all.
It's either nuclear power, or just continue to pump out the CO2 forever.
Those are our choices.
It’s not how much of it you use, but the amount of damage it could cause that’s the issue. There’s what. 8 billion of us on the planet? That’s a lot of dice.
How much of it you use matters, a lot.
Burning 70 tonnes of coal multiplied by eight billion people would for example create two trillion tonnes of CO2.
That would double the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Just think about that for a second.
@Euphemistic: its irrelevant anyway as we're never going nuclear
unfortunately coal is here to stay
but its an old argument, even an oil coal plant is more efficient than millions of privately ICE units
unfortunately coal is here to stay
Exactly. People seem to think we can magic this away somehow.
@trapper: Coal will stay in the short term until we get enough power from an alternative. Coal won’t be here forever. Having a mining lobby influenced, head in the sand government isn’t helping.
@Euphemistic: There is no (non-nuclear) alternative that can replace fossil fuels.
No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.
THis country is so backwards. We have how many EVs available? Maybe 10? Just watched a UK based ‘top 30 EVs to buy’, meaning they have so many to choose from there is some that didn’t make that list. And they come in a range of prices, sizes etc.
This is wrong and EV owners should be taxed at the highest possible rate
What, even more than people who own petrol/diesel cars? Would you suggest Flintstones style propulsion or would that be an issue depending on owners diet?
Did you know that Australia spent $10.3 in fossil fuel SUBSIDIES last year?
That's money spent propping up oil and gas companies because they clearly don't make enough money already.
Ref: https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australian-fossil-fue…
So yeah.. fossil fuels are bad - sure.. lets tax them instead. Start shifting all that money towards renewables - solar, wind, hydro, and storage mechanisms to manage it all.
And lets phase out ICE cars, because they chew up fossil fuels AND spit out emissions - and lets face it.. no-one's going to want one if the fuel price isn't subsidized and you're paying $10+ a litre anyway.
The shift to EV's is inevitable.. we need to find ways to move off fossil fuels as a whole. Taxing the early adopters of EVs for making that logical step early would just slow down this process