Toyota Hiace Camper - Electrical Fitout & Power Supply

themadman on 12/03/2022 - 00:35
Last edited 12/03/2022 - 00:35

My partner and I recently purchased a 2002 Toyota Hiace SLWB, and we've been planning out how we're going to fit it out. We're both doing Uni full time with the plan to become school teachers down the line, so hopefully we'll have decent holiday periods to take advantage of van life and explore the east coast. My partner is busting to get started on installing everything but I want to make sure I've thought got everything electrical covered before we get too far in. I don't really have a strong electrical background so I'm looking for feedback & advice!

Power Setup
We've currently got a brand new dedicated 100ah lithium battery + an old solar panel (pre-existing & assumed to be fairly ineffective). I'm considering investing in a setup with 2+ batteries instead of upgrading the solar panel, with the plan being to recharge the batteries by AC power whenever possible (ideally no more than once a week?). I don't know how easy it is to recharge lithium batteries from AC power though? I assume an inverter is required, but I don't know logistically what I'd need to make this work. The other option is to invest in a new solar setup to power everything on the go, but that seems fairly unreliable (if the weather is bad) and potentially more expensive?

Planned Devices
- 12V fridge
- 12V TV (24-32", 1080p or greater) - haven't done much research on this yet
- 12V fan
- 2x 12V LED downlights (+ maybe some fairy lights)
- 2x USB ports (might upgrade this to 4) - we have 2x phones, Garmin + Apple watch, 2x kindles, an ipad and a Nintendo Switch that we'll want to keep charged
- Nintendo Switch (docked to TV) - I assume this will require an inverter? Might just have to do handheld only if this is the only thing that needs an inverter.
- Raspberry Pi + 4G cellular attachment, acting as WiFi modem/router for everyday use and media server connected to the TV (using USB portable HDD preloaded with files synced from home server setup)
- Extra stereo speakers? I'm not sure if I want to bother, but I'm considering putting a few vehicle speakers somewhere up the back and connecting them to the TV/RPi if possible. I am under the impression this won't affect power usage much either way though.

At this stage these are the only electrical features that I can think of - we aren't pumping or heating water and will probably just keep a big water container on hand and gravity feed from it.

If anyone has any advice or recommendations on electrical things we might have missed or suggestions on how best to keep everything powered it would be appreciated! :)

tl;dr
1. Do I need an inverter?
2. What battery capacity should I go with for a weeks usage on the road?
3. Should we upgrade solar panels, or can we rely on AC charging dedicated batteries weekly + trickle from existing solar?

Automotive Toyota Van

Comments

  • mothatt on 12/03/2022 - 00:47
    +1

    any 12v usb pd charger with the right wattage (volts and amps) will get your switch going

    something like this
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/684959

    just compare the switch ac charger volt/amp rating with whatever usb car charger you're looking at

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 00:51

      So basically a high enough wattage USB-A / C port is enough to power the dock? Sweet! A quick google search suggested 45-60W is required (15V/2.6A for the dock). Will a lithium battery be up to the job with this? Wasn't sure if I'd need a proper AC adapter but it would be great if the existing battery can handle it.

  • raytriplej on 12/03/2022 - 01:29
    +1

    Try FB groups "4wd camping custom 12volt ideas" and "12/24v Touring, Camping, 4wd Ideas and Solutions".

    I just bought this for 240V AC to 12V DC (Lithium compatible)
    https://www.australiandirect.com.au/buy/kickass-12v-22-amp-9…

    but if you are travelling each day a better option might be a DC/DC charger like these:

    https://au.renogy.com/12v-40a-dc-to-dc-battery-charger-w-o-s…

    https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/victron-orion-tr-smart-12-1…

    https://www.australiandirect.com.au/buy/kickass-dcdc-mppt-so…

    And maybe throw in one of these for good measure.
    https://www.bcf.com.au/p/xtm-12v-control-box/606607.html?gcl…

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 09:42

      Thanks so much for all the links! That AC-DC charger is exactly what I was imagining.

      I imagine getting a decent control unit is essential for keeping the batteries in good health if I go this path? Can you hook an AC-DC charger up to the control unit and let that manage the flow (eg. while AC power is connected, use it for all devices + charge the batteries until they're full - once batteries are full, stop charging them and simply power everything from AC until the charger is disconnected).

      The DC-DC charger sounds interesting - is there a rough figure you can put on how long it takes to charge a battery using this? ie. Can we keep a battery topped up with ~1hr of driving per day?

      • outlander on 12/03/2022 - 15:23
        +1

        The DC-DC charger sounds interesting - is there a rough figure you can put on how long it takes to charge a battery using this? ie. Can we keep a battery topped up with ~1hr of driving per day?

        That will be determined by the specs of your lithium battery.

        Lets say that it accepts a max of 20amps (which is an awful lot. Needs thick wires).
        Charging voltage from the car alternator is 13.8v.
        Mutliply them together, and you get 276w of energy

        Now your battery is rated at 100ah, and that's usually at 12v. Multiplying those together, and you get 1200w max capacity.

        So under pretty good (but not ideal conditions), an hours drive will refill your battery ~20%. That's not too bad.

        • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 16:28

          That seems like a decent investment. Thanks for the calcs. I guess if we settle down somewhere for a few days and only do local trips we're unlikely to get much out of the DC-DC charger. It also has diminishing/non-existent returns if I grow the number of batteries in the future which is sad.

          So based on those numbers, the DC-DC charger is the equivalent of ~250W solar panel for the period of time that I'm driving. :) It sounds like solar is the better option here, if a bit more expensive. Thanks for the help!

          • kizzy on 12/03/2022 - 17:13
            +1

            @themadman: If you're serious about putting together a decent system you'll 100% want a DCDC charger. Most if not all DCDC chargers have a solar input as well, and a cheap panel fixed to the roof is a good addition. Your battery will benefit from having ongoing charging during driving, and the convenience of having it constantly topped up will outweigh the expense. For your set up I would think a single 100ah lithium will suffice.

          • outlander on 14/03/2022 - 21:43
            +1

            @themadman: No problem. Those were just some back-of-the-envelope calculations to give you an idea. I still think it's worth the investment for the reasons kizzy (above) said. You can get 40amp ones, but 20amp seems to be the sweet spot for price.

            Looks like as long as you can be stationary for a couple of hours in the middle of the day with a solar panel out, you'll have enough to get by. The real decider will be the fridge you're using. If it's an esky-type compressor model, power consumption is going to be like 40% of your battery each day.

            If its one of the cheaper peltier based devices, the ones just big enough for some milk and some butter, well they use about the same but do jack all.

  • apsilon on 12/03/2022 - 08:25
    +1

    You need an AC charger to charge the battery from mains power not an inverter. An inverter allows you to run AC appliances from the battery. For charging while driving a DC - DC charger is most efficient method but if you want to cheap out you can use an old school isolator. Battery capacity really depends on load and how long you want to remain independent plus what your solar can pump in. 100ah is likely the minimum. Should you upgrade the solar panel, can't say without knowing the spec of the current one but if it's really old then probably yes as the tech has improved. You'll only fit so much on the roof and the angle will never be optimal so I'd likely look at a portable set up that could be moved around camp to get the best sun. Don't take this the wrong way but the fact you can't answer these basics means you probably also don't know about selecting the right wiring and how to protect the system so I'd suggest engaging a good auto sparky.

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 09:49

      Thanks for clarifying. I did know that an inverter was primarily for DC-AC conversion, but I wasn't sure if you could get two-directional ones. :D

      The lithium battery is a decent one so I don't really want to cheap out on a charger. A DC-DC charger does sound like a good option. I imagine that coupled with a basic solar setup should keep a battery setup charged. Although I imagine the more batteries you have, the less effective a DC-DC charger becomes, as it would struggle to keep up with the charging required?

      Heh, I definitely don't intend to install everything on my own, don't worry. I would love to learn all this stuff, but I'm totally not game to try and muddle my way through it alone…!

  • Euphemistic on 12/03/2022 - 10:18

    Our caravan has 160w solar and 120ah battery. It runs similar load to yours. Mostly this is sufficient unless in a shady spot and don’t get a good amount of sun during the day. We have a portable solar panel to add in when in the shade.

    Our last caravan didn’t have any 240 or dc-dc charger. Just solar. Only a problem on one trip where it was cloudy for most of the time.

    Don’t learn to rely on 240v charging, rules out camping off grid. A 100ah battery probably isn’t enough for a week without charging, so go with solar. Panels are pretty cheap, especially second hand.

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 11:04

      So you were able to run everything with only a solar panel for recharging? I've done some rough calcs and set our max possible daily power draw at around 60 Ah/day (assuming everything gets used for a couple of hours). I'd be curious to hear what your average power draw per day is if your setup is similar to ours? We currently have a 100Ah LifeP04 lithium deep cycle battery installed.

      • apsilon on 12/03/2022 - 11:09

        Just in case you're not aware, the max safe discharge level is 70 - 80% for lithium so if you're taking 60% in a day you're almost fully discharging that 100ah battery daily so you need to be able to put the same in for it to be sustainable. Remember with solar you're going to encounter over cast days and as I said above, if you're only panels are on the roof they're not going to be working at peak efficiency.

        • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 11:15

          Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm thinking a second battery in parallel might not be a bad idea. I hear it's a good way to keep the voltage steady while preventing us from burning through a full charge too fast as well.

          What I'm trying to figure out is whether I:
          1. Put a bunch of money in to solar, which is still only useful when the weather is good (so 80% of the time)
          2. Invest in enough battery power to last a fully trip (~1 week)
          3. Find a way to recharge the batteries regularly (from AC or alternator)

          I assume the standard way to handle this is a bit of everything I've listed above - 1-2 solar panels + 1-2 batteries + alternator recharge would cover all of our usage?

          • apsilon on 12/03/2022 - 11:21
            +1

            @themadman: I've done it before with just alternator charging but with that setup I typically wasn't doing more than 2 days stationary. I was planning on doing a lap before covid kicked off and definitely would've been looking at solar and alternator (DC-DC) as the primary charging methods and a portable AC charger that could be hooked up if I was somewhere with AC.

            A second battery wouldn't hurt (other than the wallet) assuming you have the space. Another option could be to sell the 100ah and replace with a single 150ah etc.

      • Euphemistic on 12/03/2022 - 11:47
        +1

        I don’t know what our power draw was. However, used a 12v car fridge, lights (led), TV for 1-2hrs, radio, a bit of water pump (5min?) and charge a phone or 3. Had a 180w panel in the roof of the van and we survived for an Easter break with good sunshine. Fridge was kept in the shade.

        Newer van has 160w solar and we were looking to conserve battery after about 3 days of similar usage but the panel was shaded about half the day. Conserving the battery meant raising the fridge temp (was only drinks by that stage) and not using the TV as much. This Easter I’m taking an 80w portable to supplement and will move it around during the day.

        Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of experience with the new van because of covid.

        • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 13:09

          Adjusting your usage to suit the charge is definitely a good way to be more efficient, but it's good to hear you could power everything with under 200w of solar. :)

  • raytriplej on 12/03/2022 - 10:21
    +1

    Be sceptical with the ratings advertised by ebay sellers. They over rate their panels. I use Renogy panels and they seem to work well but the BCF ones and some versions of kings ones seem to work ok. Try not to use the budget solar controller that comes with these panels though, look for MPPT controllers to maximise your solar harvest.

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 11:00

      Thanks for the tip. I will do a tonne of research before I buy anything solar most likely. I just want to decide if I even bother going down that path at this stage.

      The previous owner had a CTEK D250SE installed & hooked up to a LifeP04 100ah lithium battery, which I assume is a decent harvesting setup…?

      • antojamo on 15/03/2022 - 14:49

        The CTEK D250SE is an 20Amp MPPT controller which will allow you to charge your battery while your driving and then from your solar panel when parked.

      • Euphemistic on 15/03/2022 - 15:22

        I just want to decide if I even bother going down that path at this stage.

        You’d be mad not to put at least some form of solar on the roof.

  • payless69 on 12/03/2022 - 13:41
    +2

    Why watch TV if there is so much scenery?
    As long as the charge controller matches the battery you are fine. Wikicamps leaves you enough money to do a PHD. The coast has enought shops to fatten up. A 30m speaker cable dipped in green paint and cheapest induction cooker saves you the very dangerous gas bottles. LED lights use next to no power.

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 14:03
      +1

      I like my tech too much. :) Will probably use it to play switch and watch movies in the evening or if it's a rainy day.

      Are you referring to a University PHD, or is this some sort of van lingo I'm missing haha.

      I have actually been trying to figure out what to do about the gas cooker without spending $1k+ on a secure gas box + install. Are there some good electrical options that won't chew through the power? It sounds like a good idea tbh. Not sure what the speaker cable + paint means for the cooker though.

      • apsilon on 12/03/2022 - 15:29

        You can get portable induction cooktops but they use 1800 - 2000w so depends on if that can be worked into your battery set up. Advantage is they can be used inside with the van closed up in bad weather where gas needs ventilation. Gas however also has other usages like portable gas hot water systems which are useful for washing dishes, clothes and yourself.

        • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 16:15

          Yeah, we'd probably need a dedicated battery + panel to power cooking appliances if we went that route. Still might be cheaper than investing in gas given the storage & refill costs? Thanks for bringing up the usage though - I was imagining the only use of gas was the cooking, but you raise a good point. Mind you, I imagine you can do electric hot water too if it comes down to it aha.

          • apsilon on 12/03/2022 - 16:31

            @themadman: There are tankless electric hot water systems but I've no experience with them. I imagine the power useage is significant. If you want electric hot water and cooktop on top of everything else I think you're going to need to look at a few hundred ah worth of battery and a lot of solar to smash power back in in a short period of time. I hope you've got really deep pockets.

            • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 16:45

              @apsilon: Yeah, I get it's expensive. I'm just wondering if it will be any more expensive than doing a proper gas setup with a safety box and professional install. 300 aH of batteries is $1k+ so I imagine you're right about the cost being more for electrical. The one perk of going electrical is that there's more power available if I need it for other things. Might chat to my partner and weigh up the pros and cons.

        • payless69 on 13/03/2022 - 08:54

          They are also perfect in high winds. No flame to blow sideways. The $39 Kmart one is as good as you ever need. Combined with the $20 gas sigle one with the cans it is by far the safest and lightest option.

        • lgacb08 on 15/03/2022 - 22:45

          Induction cooktop? No, no, no. In fact you should try to limit any device that draw anything above 100a for such battery because it'll require a lot more extra cost (inverter, wiring, sufficient AH). Just get gas bottle.

      • outlander on 14/03/2022 - 20:52
        +1

        No. You definitely don't want to go electric for cooking, as it uses wayyy too much power.

        A basic gas stove with those mini gas bottles is much better. Something with just enough power to boil water for tea, or heat up a tin of beans.
        Frankly imo the idea of van living + cooking is too ambitious. You really need an RV for that kind of thing

  • outlander on 12/03/2022 - 15:13
    +1

    Sounds like you've thought this through, so you're covered pretty well.

    Realistically you're not going to be camping in a single spot for a week in a van. You'll want to go to a gym for a shower (assuming thats the plan?) and go places to get things to eat, so as long as you have a dc-dc charger (or have it connected in parallel if you want to save the cost and handle it manually) you can always go for a drive to top the battery up on the dark days.

    Also you can skip the TV and just go with a tablet mount. If you can get one that swings across, you could bring it up real close so that it looks bigger.
    With van living space is at a premium, so there's no point in wasting time on anything that is 90% covered by another object.

    Or, if you must go that way, get a projector and a screen, and set up a full on outdoor movie theatre. I've always loved the idea of getting a couple of friends together deep in the bush, stringing up a large sheet across two trees and having a horror movie night.
    You'd have to trek quite a bit away from the camp sites to ensure you're not bothering anyone else, but it would be totally worth it.

    • themadman on 12/03/2022 - 16:09

      Yeah, we probably won't stay in 1 spot for more than a couple of days at a time. I'm not too stressed about shower functionality, it always seemed a bit clunky in the van builds I've seen. We'll probably just find nearby showers on wikicamps every few days. Gym is also an option I guess!

      I am actually starting to wonder if the TV is worth it. We have 13" Apple laptop & tablet, and I've just discovered the possibility of screen capture with the Genkin Shadowcast so maybe I'll go that route. :)

      I have a friend with a battery powered projector, but I'm not entirely convinced. Maybe for occasional use it works, but I'm probably going to use it everyday. Projector would be more power hungry too I would think? Your idea does sound fun though :D

      • payless69 on 13/03/2022 - 08:59
        +1

        I love to watch stuff on my 13" Air book. A $99 projector is light and they go on 12V perhaps for weeks on your existing battery. Best is to have razor sharp eyes for the still existing and working power points. We found one on a Stanthorpe public park BBQ. Put the induction on top and fried a steak in 50 km/h gusts with zero issues. Bystanders thought that we came from the moon.

      • outlander on 14/03/2022 - 20:46
        +1

        Genkin Shadowcast looks good! I was wondering if something like that existed.

        Lot more power, yeah. I have a regular style projector and it uses 300w, so you'd use half a battery charge for one movie night. Newer LED ones use much less.
        But man, would it be worth it!

        That would only be if you really cared about the 'movie experience' to make it a priority. Some people are fine watching movies on phones, which I just cant do.

  • WreckTangle on 13/03/2022 - 09:11

    Teachers? TBH you won’t have as many holidays as you think… many of them are spent marking, setting work or professional development and you are doing the profession a disservice saying otherwise.

    • themadman on 13/03/2022 - 10:09

      Sorry I guess? You don't take any time off between terms or over the end of the year?

      • Euphemistic on 14/03/2022 - 21:16
        +1

        While somewhat true, the teachers I know work about a week per holiday period. Some of that could easily be done remotely too.

        • themadman on 14/03/2022 - 21:54
          +1

          That's the plan. :) I may be somewhat naive, having never actually worked as a teacher, but I like to think it'll be possible haha

  • lgacb08 on 15/03/2022 - 22:52
    +1

    The basic set up would be battery, a cheap second hand panel next to nothing and a victron solar charge controller (about $100 depending on model). Then for anything AC you just get an inverter but i'd recommend going with 1000w draw max for such battery spec. Plus get a battery case, fit out a couple of usb-c, usb-pd cigi type outlet and you'll have enough power output for most electronics. Just remember anything that heating up water (hair dryer included) to be ruled out then you'll have enough juice for a week easy on such config. Don't go the dc-dc converting route because such charger is expensive.

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