Tricky Speeding Ticket Question - Should I Go to Court?

vasya on 11/03/2022 - 11:03
Last edited 12/03/2022 - 14:31

All

I'm a bit puzzled about what to do with a speeding ticket and looking for the community's valuable opinion (not legal advice) what is reasonable in my situation.

I was driving to a NSW regional town along Castlereagh highway (NSW) right after Christmas (double demerit points period). At a certain point after driving around 2-3 hours I stopped on a side road (around 100meters from the highway) to have a rest. After around 5 minutes a police car approached to me and police officer advised that he registered my car speeding some time beforehand. He kindly offered me to look at a device inside the police car. When I looked inside I noticed that on a big screen within the police car there was a photo of some other car. I advised the officer that he has registered the speed of some other's car, but the officer said that the photo on the screen is not relevant and my car will be seen in a video footage (referring to in-car camera).

Later I received appropriate penalty notice, however I haven't found any link to a video/photo footage. So I requested review of my case and asked to share the video/photo footage of my car speeding as I believe there might be an error identifying the correct car. Unfortunately NSW Revenue responded to me that the police officer confirmed that he is confident that he identified my car correctly, but NSW Revenue does not have access to the In-Car Video (ICV) system in police vehicles. So no footage has been provided and they suggested to contact NSW Police. NSW police on their website do not have any form for such a request and if I understand correctly expect a court to request such a recording.

My issue is I'm not sure whether I was speeding or not. Normally I use cruise-control for such drives, but this time the road was quite busy with traffic jams at certain locations so I didn't use it. Most of the time I followed a car in front of me maintaining safe distance as the highway has only one lane in each direction, it is not straight really and there are a lot of hills. I don't know at what moment in time the police officer registered my speed, so I can't be 100% confident that I didn't speed (especially given that it was my first long trip in 2 years due to COVID).

If I have a footage confirming my speeding of course I would just pay the fine. Without the footage it looks to me that I'm in a tricky situation - on the one side I'd prefer not to waste anybody's (including my own) time, on the other side double demerit points and a wrong car photo demonstrated by the officer. So the next step for me is either suck it up and pay the fine or go to court.

I've never been in a court and not going to spend money on lawyers, so I'm wondering does it make sense to try and go to court without lawyers and just explain my concern? Or attending the court without a lawyer is just wasting time and not how is normally done (to be honest I'm not even sure if I should plead guilty or not given my doubts above)?

UPD:
I called NSW Police and they advised that if I would like to see the footage I should elect to go to court and the footage will be part of their brief. That is the only option for me to see the footage

UDP2

I decided to pay the fine.

After @chillybags mentioned that I will have to attend the local court where the fine was issued I did some more search and found this:
https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis…?

That means I will have to drive above 500 km (roundtrip) to go to court and given that the odds are quite high that I will not win (based on various responses), I don't think that it makes sense to go to court in my particular case.

Thank you all for your valuable inputs, they were very useful!

Automotive

Comments

  • iNeed2Pee on 11/03/2022 - 11:09
    +3

    What was the cost of the fine and the demerit points that were deducted?

    • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 14:56
      +1

      $288 and 6 points (double 3) for speeding over 10km/h

      • mikeb on 12/03/2022 - 09:06
        +8

        I don't think it's worth your time & trouble to contest unless those 6 points are going to sink you. Odds are that you actually were speeding but didn't realise it. If you were certain you weren't speeding then maybe but…..

    • ThithLord on 13/03/2022 - 13:06
      -1

      Demerit points are gained, not deducted, FYI

  • Sleeqb7 on 11/03/2022 - 11:13
    +11

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your post you've not actually contacted NSW Police?

    I'd call them.

    From the NSW Police website;
    For non-urgent police assistance, reporting minor crime and all general enquiries, please contact the Police Assistance Line on 131 444.
    For interstate callers: 1800 725 631

    • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 14:57

      Yea I checked only their website. Will call them as you are suggesting, thanks.

        • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:29
          +2

          Maybe I'm spoiled, but I somehow expect that such kind of requests are being delivered through a form on website (if they accept them at all). Actually NSW Police do have such forms for certain requests, but they have on their site something like video evidences are provided if requested by courts.

          Anyway thanks all for the suggestions.

        • GrueHunter on 11/03/2022 - 18:03
          +10

          Says the bloke who lives here

        • ensanguined on 12/03/2022 - 10:17
          +1

          Alright champ, calm down and take your meds. The paragon of wasting people's time is passing on advice like this, please.

        • smartazz104 on 12/03/2022 - 10:35
          +2

          You counted the words?

        • spiff on 12/03/2022 - 19:56
          +1

          Did you know that posting any comment would be much quicker if you didn't post any comment at all?

        • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 20:55
          +3

          I'd rather read a 500 word essay than your daily cringeworthy attempts at humour and bastardisation of markdown formatting spammed throughout this site, which collectively, probably rivals the word count of a small library.

          • jv on 13/03/2022 - 22:41

            @[Deactivated]: I don’t really care what you think

            • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 22:43
              +1

              @jv: Bold of you to assume I care if you care what I think.

    • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 18:26
      +8

      So I called NSW Police and after 55 minutes of waiting in queue they advised that if I would like to see the footage I should elect to go to court and the footage will be part of their brief. That is the only option for me to see the footage. Not very fair to be honest.

      • Vote for Pedro on 12/03/2022 - 15:26
        +1

        Dont you get access to the brief of evidence before court date?

      • Euphemistic on 12/03/2022 - 17:57

        Fair enough. It’s a speeding fine, fairly straight forward for the police. You want to challenge it because you didn’t have enough situational awareness to know if you were speeding or not. It’s a risk you are going to have to take - kinda like driving without enough awareness to know how fast you were going.

        Only take it to court if you are adamant you weren’t speeding. Otherwise you are wasting everyone’s time.

  • cypher67 on 11/03/2022 - 11:15
    +41

    I am stubborn - I would represent myself and argue no evidence has been provided.
    It is a matter of principle for me, if I was speeding, I'll happily pay, my bad. But they haven't met that burden of proof.

    • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 11:25
      +11

      This is government we're talking about, doesn't matter if you are right or if you are innocent. If it comes down to one of their agents word against yours you will lose every time. Seems they don't need evidence any more either.

      • dogboy on 11/03/2022 - 13:04
        +16

        That is such BS. Without evidence, believing one person over another is just .. wrong.

        • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 13:43
          +1

          Except being a police officer, they are sworn to blah blah blah law blah blah. The are given more sway as they are in a position which requires them to uphold the law and be a reliable witness in court etc.

          • orangetrain on 11/03/2022 - 15:12
            +1

            @Euphemistic: If a police officer speeds the same as OP, they get a civilian punishment instead of more severe punishment for violating the oath/etc.

            If a person punches the police. Heavy penalties apply. If the police punches a person, civilian punishment.

            Police are literally a higher class that looks down on others.

            • mrvaluepack on 11/03/2022 - 18:16
              +2

              @orangetrain: Errr no, its actually the other way around. If anyone in the law industry commits a crime, their sentences are usually harsher because they are supposedly representing the law and should know better.

              • orangetrain on 11/03/2022 - 18:32
                -2

                @mrvaluepack: By your logic, the judge can impose a harsher sentence because people should know better. Ie hurt police.

                But then why are there laws specifically to protect police from and none for people from police ?

            • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 19:16

              @orangetrain: My point was around police being trained to observe and record activities. They do have a higher threshold of trust when it comes to being a witness. It’s got nothing to do with what punishment they get if the commit a crime.

    • Ocker on 11/03/2022 - 11:42
      +7

      I don't think they have the burden of providing physical proof.
      In the end it would be the officer's word against yours and you would not win.

      • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:44
        +1

        So basically there are 3 options:
        1) if there is no footage available, then officer's word against mine's and I would not win
        2) If the footage is available and my car is clearly seen, then I would not win.
        3) If the footage is available (to police) and my car is not in the footage, then police may say no footage available and we go to item 1?

        • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 14:41

          This not correct, if the PO lost sight of the vehicle then there is a reasonable chance that the subsequent vehicle driven by OP was NOT the same vehicle observed by the PO.

          No reference however I have read of similar cases where the the PO claim was insufficient ie could be another similar vehicle.

      • mikekiwimike on 12/03/2022 - 09:27

        This is not correct (or it may be correct but it is more nuanced than this)….. Firstly the court does not necessarily agree with the Police opinion over yours, they are considered an "Expert witness" meaning their word means a lot, but, if you are adamant that you did not do something and you have equal evidence to say you didn't - things like you have never had a speeding ticket, that you are an upstanding member of society etc etc you have a case to get a not-guilty or a guilty with no penalty. But to compound matters, it is very possible that the police officer who was on scene that day is not at court when you go, meaning the duty officer can only read out a statement and any further details would need to go to the original officer (though they have video).

        The problem with the OP is that they can not be sure that they did not speed, in this case I would assume that you did speed - because it is very easy to know the difference. I drive an 11 hour round trip every month and I know the speed I am doing, I know when I am going over the speed limit (and I slow immediately) if I was momentarily in the 'zone'…… to me it is not possible that I do not know - and I think the same for you as you say you can not be sure that you were or were not speeding, this means to me that you did speed from time to time but you did not see police.

        If you can be confident that you did not speed then go to court, if you are of good character, you do not have prior speeding tickets and you have a good weight of evidence that speeding is not in your nature, like "I am always driving to the road conditions, I am constantly aware of my speed blah blah blah", and dress well infront of the Judge. Otherwise pay the fine, my suggestion is to pay the fine as I think you know you were speeding.

        Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer just someone who did get out of a speeding case infront of the courts through being accurate and honest about the scenario. In fact the local police officer who came and spoke with me prior to the case being heard said I would get out of the fine with what I had told him….. strange situation lol

    • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 12:05
      +2

      OP can not confirm he wasn’t speeding.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2022 - 12:35

        He could have if he didn't just miss this deal. :D

      • skid on 11/03/2022 - 13:40

        Yes, and added to that, the police cbf chasing up someone unless the police were reasonably sure that that was the right car.

        I'd be more inclined to trust the police in this case because they were motivated enough to get up out of their comfy position.

        • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2022 - 18:29
          +1

          maybe he hadn't met his KPI for the month and was starting to get worried.

  • onetwothreefour on 11/03/2022 - 11:31
    +5

    I'd go to court if I were you if only for them to produce the proof that you were speeding. If you pay the fine without proof you'll probably end up regretting it.

    Surely judges are more reasonable than some GOV Dept who want you to just pay the fine and stop hassling them.

    • pharkurnell on 11/03/2022 - 12:52
      -1

      I love your sarcasm!

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/03/2022 - 11:34
    +1

    My issue is I'm not sure whether I was speeding or not. Normally I use cruise-control for such drives, but this time the road was quite busy with traffic jams at certain locations so I didn't use it. Most of the time I followed a car in front of me maintaining safe distance as the highway has only one lane in each direction, it is not straight really and there are a lot of hills.

    I guess if you're leaning towards being sure you didnt speed, go contest it…but based on your admission above jeez idk..

  • MS Paint on 11/03/2022 - 11:35
    +1

    Interesting.

    It is very likely that the ICV footage would be presented in court and the highway patrol officer will defend his decision.

    a police car approached

    HWP vehicles have some pretty high tech and proof of speed detection devices. Was it a HWP vehicle or just a run of the mill patrol vehicle?

    Are you up for a challenge, because the first time you get to see this footage will be in front of the magistrate and 100 other randoms?

    • JimmyF on 11/03/2022 - 11:58
      +1

      It is very likely that the ICV footage would be presented in court

      Assuming they even have it. Unless they downloaded the footage, I believe it is overwritten in due course.

      • MS Paint on 11/03/2022 - 12:50
        +2

        Nope. NSW HWP vehicles have dedicated parking bays at their home station to download the data at least every 24 hours.

        • JimmyF on 11/03/2022 - 13:58

          and how long do they keep it?

          • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2022 - 14:58
            +2

            @JimmyF: (NSW) Indefinitely, all audio/video footages. In case of future cases where footages may be required for evidence not with direct relation to the offence being recorded.

            • JimmyF on 11/03/2022 - 16:26
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: How do they know what might be a 'future' case then? Is every speeding fine a future case? So they keep all the footage?

              • Blitz001 on 12/03/2022 - 13:40

                @JimmyF: HDD aren’t expensive and it’s not like it’s 4k HDR footage.

              • [Deactivated] on 12/03/2022 - 14:54
                +2

                @JimmyF: They don't know, it's a matter of having as much 3rd party evidence as possible in case of something, it's all time stamped and locationally tagged, so IF, something happens, on a more grand scale than a speeding fine, they're able to view footage and see what was recorded. There's not an expiry date on the collected footages. This may or not may not be indefinitely feasible as you can imagine for the limitless future, but for the moment, it's indefinitely.

                • JimmyF on 12/03/2022 - 17:53
                  +1

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  They don't know,
                  There's not an expiry date on the collected footages.

                  I'm not too sure about that last point. It will 'expire' at some point in time.

                  For example, Body-Worn Video Footage in NSW is only stored for 6 months locally at the station, unless the footage has been 'tagged' for evidentiary value, at that point its transferred elsewhere for a longer period.

                  Can't see why cars are any longer than this.

              • tonsta on 12/03/2022 - 16:33

                @JimmyF: Its not confirmed, but civil liberatians believe all car locations and times are recorded as they pass police highway patrol camera. They could possibly use this for future non related road cases.

                The tech involved is simple to collect this data, from the police point of view no reason to delete the data.

                • JimmyF on 12/03/2022 - 17:54

                  @tonsta:

                  The tech involved is simple to collect this data, from the police point of view no reason to delete the data.

                  Recording and store licence plate/date/time data is tiny compared to storing video footage.

    • RandomNinja on 11/03/2022 - 12:28
      +4

      I would argue that the HWP would be wasting the court's time if they had footage and waited until the hearing date to present it, especially as OP seems prepared to accept the fine with evidence showing fault.

    • Xistn on 11/03/2022 - 12:49
      +2

      You can request the evidence before the court appearance.

      • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:04
        +1

        Do you mean go to court and then request the evidence before the court appearance?

        • orangetrain on 11/03/2022 - 15:14
          +1

          No, ask the other party for evidence before appearing in court. Outside of court.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 14:49
            +1

            @orangetrain: This is the logical first step - can't plead at mention unless adequately informed of grounds for claim.

            Whilst this is relating to federal criminal matters I would adjuce the general principles apply

            8.84 A person’s right to defend themself against a criminal charge includes the right to cross-examine the prosecution’s witnesses and to obtain and adduce other evidence in support of their defence. Disclosure of evidence also serves the proper administration of justice. The High Court has spoken of ‘the desirability, in the interests of justice, of obtaining the fullest possible access to the facts relevant to the issues in a case’.[105]

            8.85 At common law, the prosecution has a duty to disclose all relevant evidence in its possession to an accused.[106] This is said to be an incident of an accused’s right to a fair trial[107] and full disclosure has been called a ‘golden rule’.[108] An accused also has a right to adduce other evidence in support of their defence.
            https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/traditional-rights-and-f…

    • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:01

      I think it was HWP - a lot of devices inside.

      Exactly my doubts - just don't understand why they don't provide footage together with the penalty notice, like they do for fixed or mobile speed cameras.

      • MS Paint on 11/03/2022 - 15:03

        Was it a BMW or Stinger?

        (I think that's what they have these days)

        • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:06
          +1

          Overall the whole situation was very surprising for me, so didn't pay attention to such details.

        • Bob Svargis on 12/03/2022 - 09:57

          NSWPF don’t have Stingers. For Highway Patrol they use BMWs and the now obsolescent Chrysler 300’s

          • MS Paint on 12/03/2022 - 10:12

            @Bob Svargis: I'm in Vic so was taking a punt. Thanks for the info.

            • Bob Svargis on 12/03/2022 - 10:37
              +1

              @MS Paint: Sorry, didn’t mean to be nit picky. And in a few months time, they could end up with Stingers now that Chrysler have announced the end of support for the 300’s. So your answer was just ahead of its time :-)

  • emblurr on 11/03/2022 - 11:43
    +3

    Is a bit wishy washy whether this footage actually exists. Keep pushing the police for the footage. If it exists and you can see it will save time from court, police and yours.

  • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 12:07
    -7

    If you do go to court, dont say that you arent sure if you were speeding or not. I once got a red light camera ticket, elected to go to court, and they called me up and said they were dropping it.

    • MS Paint on 11/03/2022 - 12:51
      +11

      I'm calling BS on this Pam.

      I could not find a matching thread to this story in your post history.

      • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 13:46

        because it was years ago.

      • Hithere on 11/03/2022 - 14:32

        Let Pam have their bit of fun MS Paint. They haven't had their day in the sun for a while and might be feeling down. :D

        • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 15:21
          +1

          I stated what happened to me over a ticket, it was dropped before court. This is a fact. I elected to go to court and they then called me on the telephone and said it was being dropped. I had already viewed the photograph. There were 2 cars, so I was going to argue it was the other car

          • Crow K on 11/03/2022 - 16:41
            +1

            @screensaver: When you elected to go to court did you provide them with your screenname on here? They might have done some research before deciding not to pursue it any further.

      • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 15:58

        eek a stalker

        • gimli on 12/03/2022 - 17:58

          did you go to court about the cat?

    • GrueHunter on 11/03/2022 - 18:05
      +1

      Did everybody clap, or was that just the time the prosecutor personally congratulated you

      • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 18:06
        -1

        It was a phone call by one person

  • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 12:08
    +2

    If you were not sure if you were speeding, then you may well have been. It may have taken some time for him to catch up to you due to booking another driver at the time, although they’d usually have lights on while doing so. In that case you should have seen the patrol car and checked your speed. Also, your 5min waiting on the side of the road may have been a lot shorter - humans are generally quite bad at estimating tones unless they are actively counting seconds.

    How fast were you (accused of) going? Did the officer identify when/where you were speeding? In my experience they usually say you were speeding at xxxkm/h in yyykm/h zone when I clocked you zz km ago.

    • bobbified on 11/03/2022 - 13:58

      How fast were you (accused of) going?

      The story is a bit weird. OP doesn't even say how fast he was accused of travelling. I can't see a HWP officer going out to specifically look for someone, especially on the highway, for just being over 5-10km/h. I've driven straight past highway patrol cars at least 10km/h over on many occasions on the highway and they haven't bothered to move.

      Anything more than that, OP would surely know.

    • vasya on 11/03/2022 - 15:13

      I'm not insisting on 5 mins, I definitely didn't check time when I stopped as didn't expect the situation.
      According to the officer I was speeding above 10km/h. He might have said the phrase you mentioned.

      • MS Paint on 11/03/2022 - 15:23

        The whole situation seems very vague to you (which is normal and fine) so I would probably avoid being questioned by a magistrate and just cop the fine on the chin.

      • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 15:59

        You should definitely take it to court. Let us know how you get on.

  • Hithere on 11/03/2022 - 12:59

    My issue is I'm not sure whether I was speeding or not.

    That's the thing. Are you prepared to go to court and argue your case and tell the Magistrate that "I'm not sure whether I was speeding or not"?

    Right or wrong the Police will be believed over you. Unless you can dig up photo evidence you might have to wear it.

    It may be worth having a chat with a Lawyer who specialises in road law, usually the first 1/2 hour or so is free.

  • dogboy on 11/03/2022 - 13:10
    +9

    I would try eveything I could to get the footage from the police. If they are unable to provide it, then I would go to court and provide an explanation of the situation (I.e. Stopped on roadside, officer approached, told speeding, shown wrong car, etc.) Provide evidence that you tried every way possible to get the footage but because they refused to provide it, you are now contesting. If they then show the footage and you are proven to be speeding, put it back on them for wasting everyone's time. How can someone be convicted of a crime without evidence ffs?!!!

  • bongom on 11/03/2022 - 14:02
    +1

    Too late now but I would've asked to view the video footage at the time of the alleged incident and recorded the response.

  • chillybags on 11/03/2022 - 16:17
    +1

    I think its worth taking to court. Not exactly same circumstances but this was my experience with court for a speeding ticket - was going to be $350 and 3 demerit points.

    About 3 years ago I was driving through Sydney (and living in a regional town 3 hours up the Castlereigh highway), and got caught in a very poorly signed roadworks area doing 80 in an alleged 60 zone. I got the case moved to local court (3 hours up the Castlereigh). Court date came, I prepared all my evidence (photos of the roadworks areas and lack of signs, the RMS roadworks guidelines for signage etc) got called up "I said it was poorly signed" and was ready to show all my evidence and the judge said "So you were caught driving over the speed limit in Sydney and got the case moved to here. Yeh the signs are confusing down there, dismissed". I got a 3 year good behaviour bond and just had to pay court fees (around $150).

    • Elppa8 on 11/03/2022 - 16:57
      +2

      ??
      If the case was dismissed how come that you ended up with a 3 year good behaviour bond. I thought that only applied on a conviction. Paying an extra $200 and continuing with good driving habits would seem to be a better option.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2022 - 18:33
        +2

        the judge didn't even look at his evidence, probably wouldn't have cared either, he just wanted the case moved along by the sounds of it.

    • bobbified on 11/03/2022 - 16:58
      +1

      "So you were caught driving over the speed limit in Sydney and got the case moved to here. Yeh the signs are confusing down there, dismissed". I got a 3 year good behaviour bond and just had to pay court fees (around $150).

      A 3 year good behaviour bond plus court fees isn't a 'dismissal', is it? I thought a 'dismissal' would mean you get nothing?

      • chillybags on 11/03/2022 - 21:11
        +1

        Sorry, yes you are right. I had to plead guilty to get the case moved from Sydney. I was not convicted though and given a section 10.

        Something for OP to consider, they will have to attend local court in the area of the fine or plead guilty to get the case hearing location moved to wherever they live.

        • vasya on 12/03/2022 - 13:35

          Yes that is an important point as if I have to drive to local court (I guess in Mudgee) that would be more than 250 km one way.

          • chillybags on 12/03/2022 - 15:26

            @vasya: At current fuel prices and the time off work it may not be worth it at all.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 10:03
          +1

          They say you're not convicted. Guess what turns up for the next 10 years+ on any government national police check, emergency services check, driving records check?

  • Downvoter on 11/03/2022 - 17:39

    HWP can easily get punters exceeding the speed limit with tru cam, pro laser or mobile radar.

    They’re not going to waste time catching up and giving a ticket to old mate if he’s not good for it.

  • try2bhelpful on 11/03/2022 - 18:09

    It does, all, sound a bit odd. If you had been caught speeding, by the cop, why would he pull up where you are parked and tell you so? Why would he offer to show you the device and then show you someone else’s car? I would talk to the cops, anyway, because this sounds a tad fishy. I wonder if the cop was angling for a bribe to let you off? When you didn’t bite he put it through the system. Maybe not but this sort of behaviour would make me uneasy.

  • screensaver on 11/03/2022 - 18:53
    -3

    look up the ticket and see what act you were fined under, and then see what the act says in regards to what proof he needs, what devices etc. This cop could be bluffing

  • Desmond out on 11/03/2022 - 20:55
    -2

    If u decide to contest they will withdraw the infringement

  • MontyMacaw on 12/03/2022 - 08:26
    +15

    Stretch it out as long as you can with delays or medical emergencies etc etc. Bring into question the memory of the cop as he would have done hundreds if not thousands of these in the mean time and his memory must be challenged. Ask about the weather that day, can he remember how many hours he had been working that week what he had for breakfast even. They claim to have infallible memories so put that to the test. If and when the footage is presented request an adjournment to consider the evidence and ask for a dismissal because this was withheld from you after requesting it under disclosure. All you need is to prove reasonable doubt. Pro Tip: NEVER admit that you broke the law or even hint that you might have or the house of cards all comes crashing down. The onus of proof is not on you.

    NB I once made a sport of this and had 5 tickets thrown out. It’s a long process but if you have the time you are entitled to your day in court.

    • John Kimble on 12/03/2022 - 08:28
      +1

      Aren't they meant to take Contemporaneous Notes?

      • MontyMacaw on 12/03/2022 - 08:30
        +2

        Good point. One of mine had the cop drive off before I did so I brought that very fact up.

    • vasya on 12/03/2022 - 13:56
      +1

      Thanks for the info.

      chillybags mentioned above that I "will have to attend local court in the area of the fine or plead guilty to get the case hearing location moved to wherever they live." That's a game changer for me as that means more than 500 km roundtrip. On the https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis… they say: "Your fine will usually be heard at the court closest to where the offence happened."
      Did you have an experience of getting your case hearing moved ?

      • MontyMacaw on 12/03/2022 - 14:29

        I can’t help on that one. It is the era of Zoom. Maybe that is a possibility?

  • Waltervp on 12/03/2022 - 09:27

    I drove 47 on 4 lane northbourne Avenue in Canberra on January 1, and got a $300 fine and no image was available. They're the criminals!

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