Anyone Noticed That More Kids Seem to Have White Spots on Teeth (Fluorosis) in Last Few Years

Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 13:27

A few years back I took up the offer of a free dental checkup for my young kids (private dentist, NSW), during the checkup the dentist performed a fluoride treatment which I didn't realise would be done at the time. I questioned what the procedure was halfway through but was a bit too late to back out for one child at least.

Fast forward a couple of years and their adult teeth started to erupt, however some of the teeth had developed white spots on the enamel which I now understand may be a sign of dental fluorosis due to over exposure of fluoride during the development stage of the adult teeth. This cosmetic problem may likely be with them for life unless they choose to have it corrected.

I'm also noticing that a few of my kid's friends have similar signs of fluorosis on their teeth, some quite noticeable. These are kids with good diets as far as I'm aware.

I realise that this can be caused over time by swallowing fluoride toothpaste but I think this would have been something rarely done by my children and as such I am quite suspect that the more intense fluoride treatment they received may be the main cause.

So, my question is, have you noticed this issue with your own children's teeth or their friends?

Either way, did your children receive fluoride treatments at a dentist prior to their adult teeth erupting and if so have they erupted as yet?

Health & Beauty

Comments

87percent on 23/02/2022 - 13:38

+8

It’s not something I can say I’ve noticed
skid on 23/02/2022 - 13:39

+1

I googled images of "dental fluorosis" and it looks like I have a mild case and have had it for 30+ years. Never had flouride treatment before (unless it was done without my knowledge). Never heard of dental fluorosis until your post as I assumed it was tartar. Do you think it could be caused by drinking tap water?
- TimOfEastBNE on 23/02/2022 - 13:47
  
  +1
  
  Very unlikely to be due to tap water delivery of fluoride.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 13:49
  
  I'm not sure how long the fluoride treatment has been commonly done by dentists in Australia. It's quite possible that I'm only noticing it in children now due to having my own children with the issue (like buying a car and then seeing the same car everywhere) so it may be something that has been common practice for many years.
  
  If you had a treatment as a child you may not remember (my kids were probably around 4-7 when they had it done and if I hadn't asked what the dentist was doing then I wouldn't have known as they didnt ask me for permission or mention what they were doing until I prodded them.
  
  Tap water levels of fluoride are very low, more likely toothpaste or a fluoride treatment I suspect.
  
  I found this article from the 90's talking about fluoride treatment in dental surgeries and possible risks (I think it's an article from the USA) https://www.rdhmag.com/patient-care/rinses-pastes/article/16…
  - Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 14:04
    
    +1
    
    That article is about swallowing too much fluoride in one go, which is toxic, and could cause nausea and vomiting, and if enough to cause hyperkalemia, causing convulsions and coma. There is no concern that topical applications will cause fluorosis, which is from ingesting too much over a period of time. So it sounds like ingesting the treatment paste is possible and is a concern, but it won't cause the thing you're worried about, fluorosis.
    - Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 14:31
      
      +1
      
      With every topical application there is a risk of fluoride ingestion, which causes fluorosis. I guess the big question is how much might be needed to cause fluorosis and would one treatment be a possibility, perhaps in standalone or in conjunction with other factors (swallowing toothpaste etc).
      
      The article linked above starts out stating that:
      "Evidence proves that there has been an increase in dental fluorosis as a result of the increased exposure to fluoride during tooth development."
      
      then goes on further to state:
      
      "An area of concern includes professional fluoride applications. Added care needs to be taken in monitoring fluoride treatments in the dental office. This monitoring would hopefully decrease the amount of fluoride applied, thus preventing accidental swallowing by the patient during application. Children younger than 6-years-old, in particular, need to be watched carefully, since this age group has the greatest incidence of accidental ingestion of fluoride."
      
      It is only one article however, I havent looked into it much further.
      
      I did also find this interesting article about fluoride in water and the levels at which fluorosis may occur https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3433161/#:~:tex….
- Jimothy Wongingtons on 23/02/2022 - 14:05
  
  TIL i might also have dental fluorosis … I'd say wow my dentist never mentioned that but it's been a solid…5 years+ since my last visit .
Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 13:43

+4

You have to ingest too much fluoride to get fluorosis. The fluoride treatment would not have involved swallowing any fluoride, it is painted on the teeth then removed. It can't have affected their adult teeth which were inside their skulls at the time.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 13:55
  
  -3
  
  Given that the kids were very young and I think the dentist used some form of fluoride tray/bath to there is every chance the children may have swallowed some in the process. As far as I am aware it is the ingestion of the fluoride which causes unerupted teeth to suffer fluorosis.
  - Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 13:57
    
    +5
    
    The dentist is fully trained and using medically tested equipment so I doubt that would be likely to happen. The paste also tastes bad and is thick so swallowing is unlikely. Thank your dentist as they may have prevented a few cavities with this treatment.
    - Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 14:03
      
      -1
      
      Dentists vary in skill level as do dental assistants. Anything that is in a child's mouth is likely to be swallowed either intentionally or accidentally/inadvertently. I know of kids who have swallowed chemicals that burn, then kept drinking more of the chemical to try to stop the burning sensation.
      
      You are right that cavities may have been prevented but that's not the issue.
      - Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 14:05
        
        +3
        
        @Gravy: Read my reply above, reading the article you posted it sounds like ingesting the paste is a concern with young children but it would be toxic at the time, not cause fluorosis
        
        Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 14:13
        
        @Quantumcat: There's really only 4 ways that I can think of that has caused this.
        
        1) Fluoride in water supply (probably unlikely)
        
        2) Fluoride in toothpaste. Our kids used children's toothpaste and I don't think it was commonly swallowed.
        
        3) Fluoride treatment at dentist. Higher dosage but unknown if any ingested. This article suggests an area of concern. https://www.rdhmag.com/patient-care/rinses-pastes/article/16…
        
        4) Diet, the article I mentioned above talks about carbonated drinks being an issue. Our children rarely drink carbonated drinks.
        
        Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 14:54
        
        +6
        
        @Gravy: Children's toothpaste is very commonly swallowed, that's why they have children's toothpaste in the first place which has much less fluoride in it.
        
        To get fluorosis you have to ingest it regularly over a long period of time - over the period while the teeth are forming. One dose can't cause fluorosis. It is not the treatment at the dentist which caused it.
        
        Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 15:47
        
        -1
        
        @Quantumcat: Our kids were taught how to brush their teeth and spit out the toothpaste from an early age, hence why I said I don't think it was commonly swallowed (by my own kids). I'm sure on occasion it may have occurred though, kids being kids and all.
        
        What is your medical / dentistry expertise with regards to definitive statements on what the cause is?
        
        It's entirely possible that the one dose at the dentist did not cause the problem, however it may have been a contributing factor if we look at accumulation over time. I'm not able to find data on single larger doses = and their effect on fluorosis so I would be interested if you have a link to info that would discount this.
        
        I did find a Wikipedia article that mentions that Fluoride levels of just 1mg/L can cause the issue at a rate much higher than I would have expected and quite worrying if correct:
        
        "Compared to unfluoridated water, fluoridation to 1 mg/L is estimated to cause fluorosis in one of every 6 people (range 4–21), and to cause fluorosis of aesthetic concern in one of every 22 people (range 13.6–∞)."
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity
        
        I also found this US article with recommendations of lower levels than what our local water supply has. (recommended reduction to 0.7ppm.)
        
        https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2020/februa…
        
        Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 16:58
        
        +2
        
        @Gravy: If you read about how fluorosis actually happens you will see it is a gradual process while the teeth are forming and the enamel is being deposited. With one single exposure there would only be any effect on the bit of enamel being laid that day. The effect would be microscopic at best. Children's adult teeth are formed over 8 years. How much tooth is formed in a few hours (the time between it getting ingested then excreted by the kidneys) do you think?
        
        Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 20:38
        
        @Quantumcat: But it turns out that at best only 50% is excreted in adults, and in children it is even less.
        
        "Approximately 80% or more of orally ingested fluoride is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract [1]. In adults, about 50% of absorbed fluoride is retained, and bones and teeth store about 99% of fluoride in the body [1,3]. The other 50% is excreted in urine [1]. In young children, up to 80% of absorbed fluoride is retained because more is taken up by bones and teeth than in adults [1]."
        
        Source: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Fluoride-HealthProfessiona…
        
        To be honest, I'm not sure how much of a single dose would be required to start to form noticeable marks on the teeth, but I'm not sure that you are either.
        
        Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 09:24
        
        +1
        
        @Gravy: That is not a fixed percentage no matter the amount ingested. The bones take up what they can and the rest is excreted. It is just saying that children use more of what they tend to ingest because the bones need it. And based on average ingestion levels.
        
        Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 10:11
        
        -1
        
        @Quantumcat: Please provide a link/quote to backup this claim in regards to higher intake levels, you could well be correct but the article I linked does not read that way to me and does not mention average ingestion levels in relation to retention as far as I can see.
        
        Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 13:31
        
        +1
        
        @Gravy: The source for their numbers is not a link so I can't have a read unfortunately. However in that same article is this
        
        Long-term ingestion of excess fluoride in infancy and childhood, when the teeth are being formed, can lead to dental fluorosis [41].
        
        (My emphasis)
        
        Also
        
        High doses of fluoride (typically from rare accidents resulting in excessively high levels of fluoridation of water, unintentional ingestion of fluoride products intended for topical use in dentists’ offices, or fluoride supplements inappropriately given to children) can result in nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, periostitis, and even death in rare cases [3,19,44]. According to one estimate, the acute dose that could cause serious systemic toxicity for fluoride is 5 mg/kg (e.g., 375 mg for someone who weighs 75 kg [165 pounds]) [44]. This dose would be virtually impossible to achieve from water or toothpaste containing standard levels of added fluoride.
        
        Again, the concern with applications of fluoride polish in a dentist's office is of fluoride toxicity not fluorosis. The article already addressed what causes fluorosis in another section and it isn't a high dose in a single incident, it's long term high levels of ingestion.
        
        Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 21:49
        
        -1
        
        @Quantumcat: It doesn't sound like you are able to back up your assumption but if you do find something then please get back to me as I am very willing to listen.
        
        I am aware that long term ingestion of fluoride can cause fluorosis but yet to read of studies into higher dose ingestion and whether it may have any effects other than toxicity. This would perhaps be very difficult to study in humans as it would mean the test subjects (children) would need to be sheltered from possible long term ingestion, and the child intentionally exposed to short term high dose ingestion. Perhaps an animal study would be a possibility, maybe one has already been done?
        
        Maybe hair or nail samples could be monitored after high level exposure as they might show indicators after just a short time (a few weeks/months after exposure). I have read somewhere about nail clippings being used in some other fluoride study.
        
        Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 23:37
        
        @Gravy: If the two scientific articles you linked do not even consider it as a possibility what does that tell you?
        
        Gravy on 27/02/2022 - 09:56
        
        @Quantumcat: We have already established that exposure is a cause, it’s a question of whether short term high doses have much of an effect.l and this is neither discussed or discounted in the articles.
        
        So the absence of this data doesn’t tell me it’s not a possibility, more that a study has perhaps not been done due to either disinterest in the results or difficulty in testing the hypothesis.
        
        Quantumcat on 27/02/2022 - 10:33
        
        @Gravy: It hasn't been done because they know how fluorosis happens, to make a spot there has to be too much fluoride available over months as that's how long it takes to form that much tooth.
        
        Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 09:58
        
        @Quantumcat: Let me describe an analogy for research into fluorosis (perhaps other research has been done that discounts this?? Please link to it if so).
        
        Say we have a pot on a stove and into the pot we put some ice cubes. Let's then say that we will turn on the stove and put a lid on the pot and heat it at a constant temperature for 5 minutes (akin to constant exposure to fluoride). After that 5 minutes we take the lid off and discover that all the ice has melted (akin to fluorosis occurring).
        
        Now… lets say we do a similar experiment but after 1 minute we double the temperature , but only for a few seconds (akin to a large exposure to fluoride over short period). We then take the lid off after the total 5 minutes and discover that all the ice has once again melted.
        
        For both experiments we have been able to deduce that heat caused the ice to melt, but without being able to see what is happening during the increased heating period we wont know if this had any effect on the melting of the ice.
        
        In other words, we don't know if we don't look.
        
        Whilst you say that excess fluoride is expelled from the body, you also have not provided any evidence to back this up.
        
        Quantumcat on 01/03/2022 - 10:08
        
        @Gravy: That's not how it works - ice can absorb lots of heat but teeth are built gradually. It is more like if ice can only take in a small amount of heat at a time so a flash of heat will have little to no effect.
        
        It is more like you are building a tower with Lego blocks
        
        The bag of Lego blocks is all red and you put one block on the tower per second.
        
        If you mix in loads of blue blocks so they are half red half blue, now after a minute you have a tower of around 30 red 30 blue on average
        
        Instead of that say you have a perfect bag of red blocks. For one second, you replace the bag of red blocks with a bag of just blue blocks so the tower definitely gets a blue block on it. But then you put the red bag back and the rest of the tower is completed with red blocks.
        
        Do you see your ice analogy does not work, otherwise that means the whole tooth has to be completed in that couple of hours that there is extra fluoride in the bloodstream. But it isn't completed that fast, it takes years. By the time the next bit of tooth is made the fluoride is long since peed out.
        
        Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 10:20
        
        @Quantumcat: But you see, you haven't provided any evidence that larger quantities of ingested fluoride are excreted. I'd be much more inclined to agree with you if you could just show where you are getting your information, I really would. It's a good chat though, I appreciate your feedback.
        
        Quantumcat on 01/03/2022 - 10:29
        
        @Gravy: If ingested fluoride was not excreted we would all be dead long ago from fluoride toxicity.
        
        It is a basic function of the body to excrete everything that isn't used. That's what the kidneys' job is.
        
        Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 10:48
        
        @Quantumcat: As I have already posted, we know that a percentage of ingested fluoride is excreted whilst the remainder is retained in the body (teeth, bones etc). So what I am saying is perhaps the body is indeed using the excess amounts from an ingested overload in bone and teeth formation.
        
        Your statement earlier was that the percentage changes depending on the quantity ingested, however you did not provide any evidence for this so from my position I have no idea if what you are saying is correct or not (I also have no idea as to whether you are a dentist, other medical professional, scientist or a cat) :)
        
        So again, what I am going on at present is the information from the link at https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Fluoride-HealthProfessiona…
        
        "Approximately 80% or more of orally ingested fluoride is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract [1]. In adults, about 50% of absorbed fluoride is retained, and bones and teeth store about 99% of fluoride in the body [1,3]. The other 50% is excreted in urine [1]. In young children, up to 80% of absorbed fluoride is retained because more is taken up by bones and teeth than in adults [1]."
        
        You have not presented any evidence that contradicts this.
        
        Quantumcat on 01/03/2022 - 12:21
        
        @Gravy: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2156587211428076
        
        As soon as fluoride is absorbed, plasma fluoride levels increase (at 10 minutes), reaching peak levels at 60 minutes. A return to basal levels is achieved within 11 to 15 hours.
        
        i.e. the extra is gone from the blood after 11-15 hours (not available to bone being deposited)
        
        Once fluoride reaches plasma, it is rapidly deposited in the skeleton or excreted via the kidneys.
        
        It is deposited in the small amounts of teeth that are growing at that time, then excreted by the kidneys
        
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5651468/#!po=1.…
        
        Dental fluorosis is the most sensitive and the earliest indicator of chronic fluoride toxicity (1). Although fluoride is an important element for caries prevention, the chronic intake of fluoride greater than 1 mg/l or 0.1 mg/kg daily during the period of tooth development interferes with the process of enamel and dentin formation and leads to dental fluorosis.
        
        Chronic means long-lasting.
        
        The severity of dental fluorosis not only depends on excessive consumption of fluoride but also on the timing and duration of excessive fluoride consumption, the plasma concentration of fluoride, type of fluoride consumed, renal function, and genetic factors (36).
        
        Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 15:56
        
        @Quantumcat: A great first article thankyou, now the conversation is able to move forward. I have only had a quick read at this stage but will digest it a little more later on.
        
        From my initial browse of the first article I did have a query as to what constitutes the "saturation level" which would determine how much is able to be absorbed by bone tissue rather than excreted.
        
        "Once fluoride reaches plasma, it is rapidly deposited in the skeleton or excreted via the kidneys. Fluoride skeletal uptake is also modified by factors such as the activity of bone modeling and remodeling and age.8 The degree of fluoride retained in the skeleton is inversely proportional to the age of the individual. In subjects with no previous exposure to fluoride, the amount of fluoride absorbed increases until saturation is reached.9 In bone, fluoride can be deposited in the adsorbed layers, the crystal structures, or the bone matrix. Once fluoride is incorporated and when bone saturation is approached, the fluoride can be slowly removed. Previous observations after removal of fluoride from community waters have shown that the half-life for loss of fluoride for adults is 120 weeks, whereas it is 70 weeks for children.10"
        
        So after a quick read, I'm still not 100% convinced that a single high dose would be unnoticable in teeth, however I do understand that it is generally prolonged exposure to fluoride which is the usual culprit and the likelyhood of a high single dose causing the issue is far less.
        
        This leads me to think that the fluoridation of water supplies, when used in conjunction with fluoride toothpaste AND regular dental fluoride treatments, is perhaps too excessive and needs more investigation and a better balance. Will read more.
        
        Edit: After reading the dentist's response towards the end of the thread (shtgnjns) regarding teeth formation time periods and my daughter's issue, I understand that the fluoride treatment is unlikely to be the cause (at least for my daughter, unsure about my son).
TimOfEastBNE on 23/02/2022 - 13:45

+4

Unlikely to be due to a single treatment, usually occurs with excessive exposure over a prolonged period.

Neither of my children experienced this, and they had fluoride treatment all through their regular childhood dental plus additional fluoride as the area we lived when they were young didn't have fluoride in the mains water.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 14:40
  
  I've just had a look at our local water supply and the Fluoride is at 1ppm . Apparently around 1.5ppm becomes a risk for fluorosis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3433161/#:~:tex….
Edeena on 23/02/2022 - 13:45

+1

I doubt that one treatment caused it.
FujiFruit on 23/02/2022 - 13:46

Yes my kids had the spots on their teeth too.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 13:56
  
  Can you recall a fluoride treatment being performed prior to their adult teeth erupting?
FujiFruit on 23/02/2022 - 14:09

They visited dentist twice a year for cleaning in the last 8 years since they were 5 years old. I did mention to dentist a few times. Their teeth is better now.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 16:54
  
  Did the fluorisis of their adult teeth clear up over time or did you mean their baby teeth?
mrkorrupt on 23/02/2022 - 15:13

+14

Another arm chair expert that hasnt studied the area of concern he is bringing up,

If you know better then the dentist, then why did you take them to a dentist, surely you can do a better job then this dentist
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 15:56
  
  -2
  
  I'm researching it right now and finding some interesting articles if you have a look at some of the links I've posted.
  
  Basically I'm reading that fluorosis is on the rise, and it's caused by fluoride ingestion via several means. I'm also seeing that the balancing act between what is too much and too little is something that is being tweaked as new research comes to light.
  
  I took my kids to the dentist for a checkup, and probably would have been more wary of how the fluoride treatment was administered if I had known prior about methods to decrease the likelihood of ingestion.
  
  I said it earlier, but not all dentists and assistants have the same level of skill and knowledge.
  - Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 17:00
    
    +3
    
    Yes it is caused by fluoride ingestion, but regular fluoride ingestion over the 8 years the tooth is forming. Not one incident.
- Forkinhell on 24/02/2022 - 10:40
  
  +1
  
  "If you know better then the dentist, then why did you take them to a dentist, surely you can do a better job then this dentist"
  
  You, obviously, do not proof-read your postings, or you do not understand the diffference between 'then' and 'than'.
  
  The sentence should be:
  
  "If you know better THAN the dentist, then why did you take them to a dentist, surely you can do a better job THAN this dentist"
  
  If you're going to comment on someone's posting, then, please, put some effort into it and get it right.
  
  Maybe, you were using some form of American spell-check - that would account for it.
  
  Footnote:
  Neither our daughter (38yrs) nor son (35yrs) have any cavities or fillings because they never drank 'lolly-water' - plain or fizzy.
  We also have a reverse-osmosis filter on our drinking-water tap, to effectively remove fluoride.
Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 16:00

Out of curiosity, are there any dentists in this thread that can weigh in?
- elgrande on 23/02/2022 - 19:20
  
  Yes.
  - Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 20:52
    
    Can you tell me what the protocols are for fluoride treatment in Australia, is the patient sitting upright or layed back , is the head meant to be tilted forward to stop saliva draining to throat etc?
    
    What is the recommended dosage for a child undergoing the treatment, are these closely monitored or just suggestions? Does it vary based on age etc? What length of time does the child need to hold the tray in their mouth?
  - Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 23:39
    
    @elgrande can you please put the OP's mind at rest?
    - elgrande on 25/02/2022 - 17:38
      
      +1
      
      I was just advising that there were dentists within this thread, not that I'm a dentist.
BoredGhost on 23/02/2022 - 16:26

I wouldn't worry about it. Your child might be bullied in school though.

It's wicked what the kids at Fort Street put me through but all the science teachers knew secretly what happened. I didn't even know about it until I started looking into conspiracy theories. As a result I still have no cavities if that is something that is a benefit. The ironic thing my mouth didn't smell but the mere look was bleh. It was worse because it looked like it was freaking yellow, my teeth still look yellow to today…

I'm literally living proof that even if you don't swallow flouride, it can affect your teeth.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 16:40
  
  That really sucks for you, sorry to hear that. My kids have only limited white/yellow spotting so it's not a major issue and unlikely to cause any issues at school. I have a few friends locally whose kid's teeth are quite mottled by it though.
  
  Did you have fluoride treatments prior to your adult teeth erupting or was it caused by another fluoride issue? I have read that the fluorosis can end up really damaging the teeth if it is extreme.
freefall101 on 23/02/2022 - 16:36

+1

I'm more concerned about why you're taking a close look at the teeth of your children's friends…

I have it and I'm 38, going to be pretty hard to prove how it happened. You can gut feel that your children are bright enough to have never swallowed toothpaste but decided fluoride treatments are delicious, but ultimately you'll never actually know.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 16:52
  
  Ok I get the joke…. in answer to your question though, it goes without saying that teeth are on display whenever someone smiles or talks to you, and fluorosis is very obvious in some children I know.
  
  There is a difference between brushing teeth and having a fluoride treatment in that the child is required to keep the tray in their mouth for a period of time whilst sitting back in a chair. Saliva can easily be swallowed in this case. The recommendation in one of the links I posted above was to mitigate this by sitting upright and positioning the head downwards whilst using a saliva ejector to prevent this. I don't recall this being done during the process for my kids. It may not be recommended to do so in Australia, but it makes sense.
  - Quantumcat on 23/02/2022 - 17:02
    
    +1
    
    Why don't you try having a fluoride treatment, and see if you think it is easy to swallow some? It isn't
    - Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 20:46
      
      To be fair, I haven't had a treatment as far as I recall so you could be right, however the article I linked to earlier makes note that ingestion is certainly possible and a potential issue. It is not a hard stretch to imagine that a child could swallow some.
      
      I'll link it again https://www.rdhmag.com/patient-care/rinses-pastes/article/16…
      - Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 09:25
        
        @Gravy: Again, that article says that the concern about swallowing it is fluoride toxicity not fluorosis
        
        Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 09:49
        
        @Quantumcat: Again, I'll copy what I responded above, perhaps you didn't read it? The article talks about both fluoride toxicity AND fluorosis:
        
        The article linked above starts out stating that:
        "Evidence proves that there has been an increase in dental fluorosis as a result of the increased exposure to fluoride during tooth development."
        
        then goes on further to state:
        
        "An area of concern includes professional fluoride applications. Added care needs to be taken in monitoring fluoride treatments in the dental office. This monitoring would hopefully decrease the amount of fluoride applied, thus preventing accidental swallowing by the patient during application. Children younger than 6-years-old, in particular, need to be watched carefully, since this age group has the greatest incidence of accidental ingestion of fluoride."
        
        Quantumcat on 24/02/2022 - 23:39
        
        @Gravy: An area of concern, for fluoride toxicity. Keep reading the article after the part you quoted.
[Deactivated] on 23/02/2022 - 19:29

My older siblings have mild fluorosis. When it was first noticed, my parents were advised by a dentist that it was due to their teeth being more porous and to supplement with calcium and increase vit C via diet to prevent further damage.

You may want to seek out a biological/holistic dentist to obtain further information.
- Gravy on 23/02/2022 - 20:39
  
  Did your parents take the advice and did it help?
  - [Deactivated] on 23/02/2022 - 21:09
    
    Yes, my parents followed the advice. In terms of if it helped, it is quite mild compared to what I have seen with other people/family members. My understanding is that any damage from fluorosis to the tooth enamel of adult teeth cannot be reversed naturally rather treatment may prevent it from getting worse.
    
    Interestingly, my younger brother and I do not have it. We were given calcium supplements from a young age as a preventative and had the same diet as the rest of the family with alot of fruit/veg high in vit C.
    
    From what I've seen with people who have fluorosis, it tends to occur to more than one person within a family/extended family.
zzzz99 on 23/02/2022 - 22:31

+10

I am a dentist.

How do you even know that it is fluorosis that is affecting your child's teeth and not a form of mild hypomineralisation? Or it could be a white spot lesion signifying early enamel caries.

Hard to tell when you're not a dentist isn't it… ;)
- OGGazelle on 24/02/2022 - 08:19
  
  +2
  
  Came here hoping someone would bring this up!
  Does OP have any confirmation of the Dr Google findings?
  Sounds like a bunch of ‘Do YouR oWN reSeARCh’
  - Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 09:34
    
    Yeah I can see how it might seem like a bit of a conspiracy thread but I'm very open to people providing links to research which contradicts info that I've found and posted here. At the moment all I'm hearing is "Nope, that wouldn't cause it… unlikely" etc without much actual evidence to back up why this is. I've then got someone telling me that fluoride is flushed from the system within a few hours and when I did some fact checking on that it seems totally off the mark as only 20-50% is flushed depending on age and the rest is deposited in the body.
    
    In direct answer to your question though, I have no confirmation from a dentist that this is fluorosis and I am only assuming this through visual inspection and comparison with online images. I could very well be wrong in my assumption.
- Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 09:23
  
  Good to have a dentist responding thankyou.
  
  Unless I am mistaken, one of the main symptoms of dental fluorosis is hypomineralisation?
  
  I am therefore assuming that you mean hypomineralisation through some other issue during tooth formation unrelated to fluoride? If that is the case then yes this is certainly a possibility to consider.
  
  Can I ask how is fluorosis diagnosed as opposed to hypomineralisation through some other cause? Is there much of a push to even differentiate or are the symptoms simply treated?
  
  I do recall asking another dentist about the issue in my children's teeth but cant recall the exact answer and I think it was only considered a minor cosmetic issue, it's possible that tooth mousse was recommended at the time although thinking back now I don't think we opted for this. I am aware of another friend's child using this product and visually I don't think it has had much of an effect, I'll ask her and get some feedback from her.
- Quantumcat on 01/03/2022 - 10:35
  
  @zlzl99
  Could you possibly say categorically to the OP that one instance of swallowing fluoride treatment can't cause fluorosis? He's still not sure
  - Gravy on 06/03/2022 - 11:34
    
    @Quantumcat
    
    I doubt that even a dentist may be able to say with 100% authority that this is the case given that any fluoride intake may be a contributor in conjunction with longer term intake. If something contributes, then it is part of the cause. Whether one treatment could create visible signs of fluorosis is the question and perhaps this is very difficult to ascertain.
    
    The article you linked to further up above mentions that the mechanism is still not known with certainty.
    
    The mechanism of dental fluorosis is very complex and not fully understood.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5651468/#!po=1.…
    
    The comment by the other dentist "shtgnjns" in this thread regarding timing of my daughters fluoride treatment does seem to rule out that particular treatment as the cause in her case if I have my approx dates right. Unsure about my son's issue though, to be honest I'm probably now leaning towards some other environmental cause after reading some of the feedback in this thread but I still don't think a fluoride treatment can be completely ruled out as at least a contributing factor.
    
    Thanks for all your feedback by the way.
saltypete on 24/02/2022 - 08:45

Children? Brought mine up and now keep well clear of the nasty little things. Let alone stare at their slimy fangs…..
And yes the ‘fruit of my loins’ all had normal dental care including fluoride treatments. No marks that I’m aware of.
Are you sure you actually know any of this for a fact? Maybe ask a dentist, they probably know stuff that didn’t just come from some Faeces-book group….
- Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 09:44
  
  No I'm not 100% sure on either the issue or the cause. I have mentioned it to another dentist during a subsequent check-up but didn't really get a definitive answer as to the cause as far as I remember, not sure how easy it is to diagnose fluorosis compared to other similar cosmetic issues involving hypomineralisation (have asked the dentist a few posts up). The condition is mild in my children, far more pronounced in some of my friend's kids though.
jv on 24/02/2022 - 09:50

Anyone noticed that more kids seem to have white spots on teeth (fluorosis) in last few years.

No.

It could be mild hypomineralisation.
- Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 10:13
  
  Yes it could be as the dentist above mentioned, although hypomineralisation is also a symptom of fluorosis.
OzHunterNSW on 24/02/2022 - 14:25

Oh don't be so …. you are tell us that an application has suddenly manifested itself 10 years later as white spots.

Teeth change over time. They get impacted, and crack. The white spots are impact damage. What do you expect from anything that is "free".
- Gravy on 24/02/2022 - 17:51
  
  The white spots were evident as soon as the adult teeth erupted, it was several years ago now and perhaps 1-2 years after the treatment. I don't personally think this has anything to do with impact damage although I guess it is possible during the formation stage.
downbythecreek on 27/02/2022 - 15:15

How old were your kids at the appointment where the fluoride was applied and what teeth are the white spots on?
- Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 10:10
  
  They both had the treatment on the same day. I cant remember exactly but for my daughter it was perhaps not too long before her upper adult central incisors came through so perhaps 7 or 8 years old for her when treatment occurred (white spots appeared on those teeth). My son was perhaps 4-5 and his white/yellowish spot appeared on one lower central incisor when they erupted, this would have been a year or two later.
  - downbythecreek on 01/03/2022 - 15:53
    
    Ok, thanks.
    The crown of the adult upper central incisor finishes calcification at around 5yo, so if the application was around 6-7, it can be ruled out as the chief cause of the fluorosis in your daughter.
    
    Given both children have what you suspect to be fluorosis on teeth that wouldn't have been at the same level of development during application, its more likely to be environmental exposure.
    
    I'm a dentist.
    - Gravy on 01/03/2022 - 16:01
      
      Excellent, thankyou for that feedback. I had the feeling that this was going to be your reasoning for the question so it is good to have some clarification on that.
mrdean on 26/09/2024 - 13:32

-1

After a roughly 7 year legal battle, court rules in favor of plaintiffs, in relation to the risk of reduced iq in children. This may result in the banning of adding fluoride (industrial toxic byproduct/waste) to water supplies, although that is a best case scenario. I suspect industry will try their best to find some other way of adding it to water or food or elsewhere, as historically disposing of it properly was very expensive.

https://fluoridealert.org/content/federal-court-rules-that-w…

https://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Court-R…

Anyone Noticed That More Kids Seem to Have White Spots on Teeth (Fluorosis) in Last Few Years

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