What do you think of the new Lord of the Rings show that will be coming onto Prime Video in September?
Will apparently be the most expensive tv series ever made, costing upwards of $1 billion.
Seems like there is some controversy regarding the casting choices and diversity mandates. The movies did not have any of that and were mostly true to the source material.
Here is the recent trailer.
Think of it as yes, no, and don't care.
what was the controversy? not enough transgender giants?
tbh i hope they've addressed this. sickens me the lack of representation for his group
- edit i mean this group, not his group, i did not mean to open that can of worms, or the puns either.
The bastardisation of the historical work in order to mutate the story and characters to fit 'the agenda'. I'll probably not bother.
As a fan of the books and the movies, not digging the new trailer for this series…. I mean I'll give it a shot but i'm afraid that these Wokesters are seeking to re-make Middle Earth. Can't we just enjoy Tolkien's works and any inspiration from the source material instead of pushing an agenda in the name of diversity.
Not in current year. Those are unacceptable views for peoplekind.
Okay prime really surprised me with Reached series so I'm looking forward but Jacksons LOTR is the best and no one can equal
Yeah the Reacher series was really good and the main actor actually fit the mould of Jack Reacher (unlike those Tom Cruise movies).
The story actually followed the first book pretty well. Hope it continues.
I think the new LOTR series can have a lot of free reign in terms of plot and characters as they aren't really based on a full complete novel so there is a lot of leeway. Be interested to see what it is like. Must be better than the Wheel of Time series blech.
haven't even watched the 3 hobbit movies yet. If its free on prime, then i might check out the first couple of eps.
Don't bother.
skip the first hour. they don't even get out of the kitchen.
did they get 2nd breakfast atleast?
nah that would have meant a 4th movie ;)
That was best hour of the whole trilogy!
Lord of The Rings
Rated R18+ ?
Shouldn't that be 'Person of The Rings'? /s
Why does this not come across as LOTR at all ? It could just be any generic fantasy series if you didn't tell me it was LOTR
all "controversies" aside, the trialer looks pretty ordindary, feels more like a generic fantasy show then LOTR, but I have only ever saw the Peter Jackson trilogies and never read the books, so who knows…………….
As a person of colour, the forced racial diversity in a lot of tv series (and movies) nowadays is awfully disingenuous.
It's jarring visually.
The Wheel of Time, the Witcher, Bridgerton etc. It personally irks me seeing these gender/sexual orientation/racial swaps and takes me away from the actual story. If I was an actor, I'd rather participate in a failed original production than be cast in one of these shows reinterpreted for modern audiences. Failure sucks but at least it'd happen on its own terms without pissing off an established fanbase.
The Witcher in particular annoys me. I just want to see Geralt kill monsters but he's continuously sidelined for racially diverse magician gatherings in Nilfgaard and Aretuza.
WAKE UP 😂
What is woke may never wake
Then why you complaining
@life is suffering: To be perfectly honest, I didn't understand the context or reason behind your words Wake Up.
So I thought I'd just repurpose the what is dead may never die quote from GOT instead for a cheap upvote or two.
GRABABRUSHANDPUTONALITTLEMAKEUP
I'm disappointed in the witcher as well, first season wasn't too bad but the second one is like 'wtf'?
really? i didn't really enjoy the first season but i found the second season more enjoyable. the actor choices were jarring after having played the game and trying to figure out who is who but if you go into it not expecting much (as you should with all netflix originals) then it's okay.
Yeah, meh. I went into it expecting the Witcher…I should have known better. She killed off a major character, all the Witchers were (profanity) with the same personality (or lack thereof), Kaer Morhen had a revolving door where anyone and anything could just walk right in. Too much time was put on characters that were not properly introduced so I didn't care about them. And that last episode with the stupid portal releasing the stupid dragons inside Kaer Morhen was just stupid. OK Cavill was doing his best to put on a brave face but it seems apparent to me that he was woke-scammed by the show runners. He should have known better as well.
Oh well, each to their own. If it doesn't get sorted by next season them I'm out.
Go woke, go broke.
As a person of colour I love seeing representation.
As a person of white colour, I appreciate it too. But I'd prefer new sources of inspiration for these characters rather than reskins (pardon the pun) of previously done characters.
For example; James Bond. Many people want Idris Elba to be the next Bond, but Bond is a stereotypical White Boy from Eton and many of his missions are where he's able to blend into the background and sneak into areas.
You know what would be awesome? Showing the role of a black spy from the same time period and region - show the struggles a person of colour would face, as well as their own ability to not be "seen" by those in power and using that to their advantage as a spy!
Hell, there are so many diverse Comic book characters that colour-swapoing any character is just plain unoriginal. There are so many amazing superheroes with amazingly written backstories and struggles that more honestly depict different races, classes, and issues that it's sad to see similar stories be rewritten time and time again.
/rant lol
Not every show with a minority lead has to be about racism. You seem to be falling into the trap that a non-white character somehow needs additional justification to exist.
Not every show with a minority lead has to be about racism
Yeah, that wasn't my point? My point was about shifting races in an established brand/universe. If it's going to happen (whether due to viewer demands, or attempts to be more 'diverse' etc) - then simply changing the actor is bad because it only serves that single purpose whilst breaking continuity.
Can you have a black James Bond? Of course, but you need to alter their background in some way because otherwise the story doesn't make sense. Maybe the Bond storytelling universe is now based in more modern-times, or in an area with a different demographic. Maybe this is an alternate universe where our history is different. Fine, no issues!
This isn't reality we're talking about remember; it's a character in a story, and regardless of their appearance their existence should be justified in some way or the other. If a specific character is all of a sudden a different race, there needs to be some form of justification for it and any stories set in 'our' reality need to take that into consideration.
a non-white character somehow needs additional justification to exist
But…they do in this case/the example I used? Not "additional" justification, definitely, but regardless of race they need to have a background which justifies their in-universe position in the world. James Bond was well-suited to be a spy because of his upbringing, locale, and skills acquired through those years = justification.
Different characters of different races/backgrounds can enable representation in our media (a good thing) because it allows a different story to be told rather than the (rather stale at this point) 'Hollywood White Guy'.
My point is; there are plenty of other stories that can be told through the inclusion of diverse casting, and to slap the same traditional format onto a diverse character is a missed opportunity.
Well, I'm definitely not against it but I'd rather see representation in a more practical and logical manner.
The Critical Drinker on Youtube uploaded a perfect video about this very recently.
I'd rather see representation in a more practical and logical manner.
Translation: non-white characters needs a reason for them being non-white.
@Autonomic: Corrected Translation:
Representation is often just 'diverse character/actor' slapped onto existing Hollywood narrative with no thought to other ways of storytelling.
Why, just why?
$$$$$$$
That's obvious LOL
Imagine being upset because an elf in your fantasy TV show is black
Imagine being upset because a great work of literature beloved by millions has been bastardised to accomodate a fringe and irrational agenda that actually flies in the face of the author's worldview.
Oh yeah, I get it now.
It's a black elf bro. Show me where Tolkien said elves are never black.
on the flip side, imagine being upset because an elf in your fantasy TV show ISN'T black/brown/yellow/red/blue/LGBTQ2AA+
It gets worse than that, imagine if the actor didn't have what ever victim points were required to play the character. Straight actor playing gay etc. Diversity just means less straight white males.
Then you have Peter Dinklage saying that Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is backwards even though he's a successful actor and can get roles on name recognition alone, while aspiring dwarf actors would be happy to take the role. He also got wrong that the dwarfs lived in a house, and only mined in the cave.
Literally every corner of the internet is up in arms over a minority being cast in a TV show. We're here on a bargain discussion website that's apparently full of people upset by this.
Can't remember the last time I saw anyone on here talking about the LACK of diversity in anything, ever.
Probably because it's a mostly American leftist thing. No one complains that Indian cinema has too many Indians. Also, good luck finding anything new that isn't full of intentional and immersion breaking diversity. Unless it's a movie made with black stars, that's fine if they're all black, but diversity doesn't mean diversity, it means less straight white males.
@Autonomic: I wasn't specifically talking about this series. If the show is good. No one is likely to care. Battlestar Galactica 2003 gender swapped existing characters, as well as threw in a handful of token diversity roles. The show was good though, and they even explained the changes by saying that it wasn't the first time this story had played out, and won't be the last. Implying multiple universes. The show was vaguely mystical, so it fit just fine.
Compare that to Ghostbusters. Not only was it bad, but they tried to make out that anyone that didn't like it only did so because it had female leads. Completely ignoring the fact it was terrible, and a spit in the face of the original.
I'm not expecting much from this. I'd vote meh. I'll consider giving it a go, but then I was never a die hard LOTR fan to begin with.
good luck finding anything new that isn't full of intentional and immersion breaking diversity
I wasn't specifically talking about this series.
Well guess what I just found you a show that isn't full of "intentional and immersion breaking diversity" (lol)
@Autonomic: No, you're wrong. It's 100% intentional. They weren't casting elves and found the greatest elf of all time. They were looking for blacks and they grabbed the first one that could passably do the physical work required.
As for immersion breaking it's hard to say. Like I said, I'm not a die hard LOTR fan, so don't have any specific idea of what LOTR elves are supposed to be, or even what this one specific character is supposed to be.
@[Deactivated]: You probably shouldn't refer to black people as "blacks"
They weren't casting elves and found the greatest elf of all time
And you know this how? Meanwhile white actors are hired over non-white actors all the time because studios are too scared of a non-white lead. But of course, I don't see you whinging about meritocracy there.
@Autonomic: I will refer to the plural of black as blacks. Just as I would do the same with the word white(s). The only time recently a colored actor has been replaced with a white one was The Ancient One, and that was so as not to offend China. Sure, not offending wokists is the in thing in current year, but they know where their money is coming from. Offending China would be much worse.
As for white actors being hired over blacks as leads, in a new IP it wouldn't matter. People are only complaining because they do it in historical movies, or in established IPs where they insist on gender and race swapping, often making it absolutely ridiculous by destroying established lore. No one insists black only movies need more whites.
If this was a new IP, with just black elves, often known as dark elves, then no one would have a problem with it at all. Instead, they insist on taking an existing IP and diversifying it.
@[Deactivated]: This isn't about whitewashing. This is about non-white characters not being cast as leads, period.
@Autonomic: Getting off topic, but I would say that there are black leads, especially where it makes sense for them to be there. However where there is a reluctance to do so, I imagine it would be due to fear of casting an unknown, and losing money. I doubt there's any other motivation behind it.
@Autonomic: That's not what I said, but don't let that stop you. All movie choices are made primarily with money in mind. There's some consideration given to the agenda, whether that was American patriotism in the past, or wokism today, but money was and is the main goal.
@Autonomic: They're going to remake Bel Air for some reason. While I'm sure it will be terrible, what they're not going to do is diversify the cast. It would be ridiculous if they did, and it's no less ridiculous when they do it with established white characters, either fictional or historic.
@Autonomic: No, the difference is you're happy to ignore, and even welcome ridiculous choices if they're made against white characters, but wouldn't do the same for black ones. There are plenty of black lead movies, both successful and not, and where success appears, it will follow. Success being money, not critical acclaim or public opinion.
I can tell by the fact you welcome "representation" despite the fact that they do not represent you, and that you somehow think people shouldn't use the plural of the word black that any further discussion would be a waste of time. So Let's leave it there. I won't waste any more time on you or this topic.
@[Deactivated]: Dude they added a black elf. That's not a ridiculous choice and it's not even against a white character lmao.
@Autonomic: They also added a black dwarf, and changed a female character into a warrior so she could be a strong independent fish that don't need no bicycle. It's obvious what they're doing and why.
If you want something to represent you, consider a character with a similar personality, or perhaps one that is aspirationally what you'd like to be, rather than one that has a vaguely similar skin tone, or has some genetic origins that might barely reflect parts of your own geographic origin.
I also thought of a couple recent examples of white characters requiring justification. Matt Damon in The Great Wall, supposedly a traveler. Vaguely plausible, so sure. There was also Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell, where wokists like you complained. Forgetting that she was the shell, not the ghost. The ghost was indeed played by a Japanese actor. Entirely justified considering a real life Hong Konger made his own Scarlett Johansson bot.
They also added a black dwarf, and changed a female character into a warrior
I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. Who cares even one iota that a dwarf in a fantasy TV series is black.
@Autonomic: Who cares if Biden chose a black woman for Supreme Court Justice? No one, if he chose her because she's a qualified candidate. Again, that's not why he chose her. He was looking for female blacks, so he can say he nominated the first black female. Diversity points. I know that because he announced it ahead of time.
Anyway, I will leave it there. I only bothered to comment again because new information had come to light. It's not just one black elf, or dwarf, they're ignoring established lore, and the show will be a complete waste of time, just like everything else wokists touch. I change my vote from meh, to not going to watch.
. He was looking for female blacks, so he can say he nominated the first black female. Diversity points. I know that because he announced it ahead of time.
You do realise there are hundreds of people who are qualified to be on the supreme court. There is not a single person who is objectively best. The choice was always, always going to be subjective.
only bothered to comment again because new information had come to light.
What exactly was your logic here? A black elf is acceptable but somehow a black dwarf AND a black elf crosses a line? lol
What exactly was your logic here? A black elf is acceptable but somehow a black dwarf AND a black elf crosses a line?
We didn't know anything about the character, so commenting on it would be pointless. Now that we know for sure that it's simply another wokefest, there is no room for doubt.
I understand that you somehow think this is great because it appeals to your sense of your side winning, but really, no one wins when this kind of trash is made.
It would be like remaking Shaft, Black Panther, or Bel Air with an all white cast. It would be ridiculous, and this is no less ridiculous.
Just make something new. There's a reason people keep quoting Tolkien on evil being unable to make anything new, only corrupt what ever exists. The irony.
There's plenty of room for new stories out there. Establish new lore. Create new things. Stop trying to current year existing works. If all that is too difficult for you to understand, then there is no hope for you.
lol
Done.
Some people had better not see some Shakespeare performances.
Does not seem very enticing.
Sometimes I think that great movies should just be left alone.
For instance the new Matrix was pretty flop.
Do the books ever say the elves are actually white?
I've read The Lord of the Rings at least 45 times and I have no memory of Tolkien mentioning the skin color of any race .. Tolkien frequently used the word “fair” but I think he intended it to mean “pretty” or “handsome.” His reference to the Elves as “The Fair Folk” referred to their beauty and grace and not their skin color.
That settles that then.
Yes, about as settled as Balrogs wings.
This Reddit post has a pretty in-depth breakdown of references to skin colour in the books. TL;DR, not really.
"I'm sure we've all seen many critiques of Amazon's choice to cast a more diverse group of people in 'The Rings of Power'. Many of the people who critique this choice genuinely believe that they are simply trying to remain true to Tolkien's world in doing so. However, I think what they are in fact doing is unwittingly “defending Peter Jackson’s monopoly on any aesthetic interpretation of these books”, to quote a pithy tweet I read yesterday."
Also how about they plump up a billion dollars to film their own version of it if they hate seeing black elves so bad, the Tolkien estate probably won't say no if you give them enough money. Make all the characters white, give them all klan hoods even.
I saw the preview and to me it doesn’t look very “Lord of The Rings” but then again I’m a huge fan of the Jackson aesthetic. The preview felt like it was Chronicles of Narnia or something.
Will probably check it out, but not eagerly awaiting release.
Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made. - J.R.R. Tolkien
sums up all the recently reboots and sequels from Hollywood, doesn't it? :)
I do wonder if the failure of this very expensive series will put the final nail in the woke coffin. Ladling on dollups of woke politics just cuts the audience and makes less money - and eventually that has to work its way through the dense heads of the execs.
Given that they could have done virtually anything with the second age, including having characters from the east and south, doing race and gender swaps was just crass stupidity. And given this level of screw up in just the looks, how bad a mess did they make of the storyline?
Someone is going to have to do some serious reshoots over the next 6 months.
i like LOTR but lets be honest the need for diversity and representation of every single minority every that ever existed or will exist will probably make it rubbish - as they try and shoe horn crap in sacrifice of good story writing.
LOL at the comments on that video. This is going to get review bombed hard.
I will probably give it a go - but not exactly excited about it.
It kinda feels like Star Trek: Discovery - a new interpretation of the original universe, but constantly trying to preach wokeness to its audience and not just getting on with an enjoyable storyline.
Ive read the books twice. Watched the original triilogy more times than i can count. Even lowered myself to watch the hobbit twice, actually kind of enjoyed the second viewing. But thats my last look at anything LOTR. This new "zir of the rings", or whatever they are going to call it, is an abomination and i categorically reject it as as a pure corrupted fan fiction.
They could have many forgivable mistakes, to be fair they will never reach the trilogy status, thats untouchable. But to inject woke activism and childish racist ideologies into the mix. No thanks. When they recast the black panther as a white guy with a race of aryan wokanda people, ill reconsider my stance.
It's not diversity that puts me off a show totally - it's when every actor feels the need to talk in a forced whisper.
Every actor then sounds the same with no individuality to their voice. The voices sound really 'thin' with no character.
When you hear an actor with any type of distinctive voice it really stands out.
Found this that pretty much explains what I mean -
https://slate.com/culture/2017/01/why-actors-speak-in-soft-w…
That article ends with "Here’s hoping Hollywood rediscovers the fact that we all use a variety of voices, registers, and pitches throughout our day—and there’s nothing particularly natural or real about whispering in a monotone to begin with."
If only they developed the series around the human races that allied with Sauron during the War of the Ring, such as the Southrons and the Haradrim with their giant oliphaunts. They could have met their minority quota AND still have been true to the books. Amateurs!
I think having diversity on screen is good and important. We've come along way from Tolkein. Even more than that, it is just in keeping with what I expect in an epic fantasy with multiple different races, creatures, genders etc. I thought the casting in Wheel of Time was great for example. Not perfect, but way better than it might have been. On the other hand, I find it incredibly forced and jarring to see it in a period drama. It is a simple fact that the Queen of whatever did not have black handmaids and, to me, it glosses over all the adversities a black person may have had back then.
As for Lord of the Rings, the problem is not going to be seeing a gay, asian woman but that they have no source material to work with. Epic fantasy (and Sci-Fi) is incredibly hard to write well and only a very few masters have done this in my opinion. Many try and many fail and unless they have stumbled across someone of huge talent then it will just be a hum drum, CGI driven flop.
Watch We Are All Dead instead on Netflix. Can't beat Korean zombie flicks 😁
bulgasal is pretty good too, no zombies though
won't be watching. i'm tired of all the forced diversity crap, if you want to make something like that, make your own thing and don't just modify the work of someone else to fit your agenda.
i don't trust amazon not to (profanity) it up, i grew up with LOTR and they are still my favourite movies to this day.
Aren’t options 2 & 3 in the poll too similar?