I am vacating the rental house soon after living in this house for nearly 5 years. Two owners and 3 real estate agents have changed the hands since I moved. I am curious to hear what kind of problems real estate agents (I don't have good opinion about real estate agents) can create while vacate cleaning? What should I take care while vacate cleaning? My real estate agent has emailed me to get professional cleaning done and I need to submit the receipt.
Vacate cleaning possible ways Real estate agents create trouble
chrismatt on 07/01/2022 - 12:08
Comments
Thanks. How does the normal wear and tear defined?
They do not need receipt and cannot legally force you to give them one.
They can if it is a term of the lease. It often is.
Incorrect.
Cleaning
Agreements before 29 March 2021
When you move out, you are expected to leave the property in a reasonably clean condition [section 63]. Rental providers and agents often try to insist that renters must steam clean carpets or professionally clean the property. If the property is already ‘reasonably clean’ you do not need to do this, even if there is a clause in your lease that says you have to.That is from Tenants Victoria.
Fair enough, didn't check the state.
@brendanm: Incorrect
In WA you must return the property in the same state of cleanliness as you entered the property with an allowance for fair wear and tear. In W.A. a landlord can legally require a tenant to have their carpet professionally cleaned on vacating if this is a requirement of the lease.
That is from electrodry.
@happydude: Well, I'm sure electodry would know the law 😂
Would like to see where it states this in tenancy law? Generally, the only way this is remotely possible, is if the landlord had the carpets professionally cleaned prior to you moving in. Even then, it would likely be a hard sell at tribunal, provided that the carpets were in the the same condition as when you moved in, minus "fair wear and tear".
I can't find anything in WA tenancy documentation that states that professional carpet cleaning is enforceable if in the contract, though perhaps you can do a better job than I did.
@brendanm: It doesn't. At common law there is a freedom to contact. This freedom can be restricted by statute but it doesn't need a positive wording on what you can contact.
REWIA (who provide the template for every lease I have ever signed) has it as a standard clause. See Part C 4.4 (pg 12)
https://reiwa.com.au/uploadedfiles/public/content/informatio…Also tenancy law in WA is in the exclusive jurisdiction of the Magistrate Court, not a tribuneral.
From the regulations:
PART C
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Additional terms may be included in this agreement if:
(a) both the lessor and tenant agree to the terms; and
(b) they do not conflict with the Residential Tenancies Act 1987, the
Residential Tenancies Regulations 1989, or any other law; and
(c) they do not breach the provisions about unfair contract terms in the
Fair Trading Act 2010; and
(d) they do not conflict with the standard terms of this agreement.The rules for the non-standard contract are above. Nothing says they cannot bake you professionally clean, so it's valid.
@happydude: Reiwa is not a government organisation. In fact, it is there for real estate agents, not for renters.
they do not conflict with the standard terms of this agreement.
One could possibly argue that demanding carpet cleaning to be paid for, does conflict with the standard terms of agreement, as they simply state that the premises must be returned in the same condition, minus fair wear and tear.
It is very unfortunate that wa doesn't have strong wording on this as the other states do.
That's for NSW, rules are different down here mate.
As above, you are incorrect.
Lol, love the negs, I've literally posted the proof above 😂
After you have cleaned it, take photos and video.
Don't forget things like window sills, sliding door tracks, and windows.
It is better to hire someone who knows what they're doing with end of lease cleans so you don't miss things, but you don't have to.
Make sure to stick around after the final inspection in case they want you to go back and fix anything.
For what it's worth, we've found (based on a PM friends advice) - If you're hiring a cleaner, ask the PM who they recommend / work with - Both times we've done this, they've been pretty affordable, and we've never had issues with bond - In one case, the clean was below what we'd expect to be ok, but they knew what the PM expected - and as a bonus, can typically coordinate directly with the PM if there are issues.
Ok. Sorry for this question, what is "PM" ? I thought of delegating the cleaning to the real estate agent, he came back with a quote double than the quotes I received from other service providers.
Property manager
Got it thanks.
Just hire the same people the realestate agent use. That way there shouldn’t be any issue.
I did reach out to them. The lady they sent didn't speak english. Her quote was double than what others have quoted. I asked for explanation, and she said, since she can't speak english(she speaks only mandarin), she would discuss this with Real estate agent, and then real estate agent would inform me.
The real estate agent is unable to explain why the quote is high as compared to other quotes.REA is probably getting a commission for recommending.
Hire someone who says they have bond back guarantee, should be OK. But stay around to make sure the job is done properly before the final inspection if you can
Some real estate agents behave extremely badly. My own experiences included withholding my bond for what became 9 months, the time it took me to arrange taking them to court. At the hearing, the agent denied all wrong doings, including their ongoing refusal to fix the ducted air-conditioning for the entire home…this in far north Queensland in the heat of summer…bare faced lied to the magistrate in court. I had proof, which the agent did not expect, and my bond was ordered to be released back to me, plus compensation for the a/c issue. I had tried several times to reason with them before taking them to court, but they were stubborn and totally unreasonable. It took a full year to get the monies back, and of course, during that time, it became very hard to rent another property with the disputed bond on record for us.
I now view estate agents entirely the same as I view car salespeople, without trust of any kind. Be very careful and document everything, including lots of photos that back up your side of things, and good luck.I am with you. It is not some real estate agents, I would say 90% of them. I wish we have some Royal commission into real estate business and bring some sanity.
I was in a similar situation, and told the PM that I would take him to tribunal, and he immidately threatened that, he would ensure I would have negative feedback if I take them to VCAT. He also mentioned that the real estate agents have their own community, and he would circulate the details with them so that I won't get the rental again. This is how wretched the real estate agents are in Australia.I really should have added that the property concerned belonged directly to the husband/wife real estate agents, this completely unbeknownst to us. This was the final nail in their coffin in court, electing not to fix a large homes ducted air-conditioning unit over the 6 hottest months in the Tropics - it would have cost over 2k to repair, and they simply didn't want to incur such an expense. We had discovered through talking with others who had also had issues with the agency, that the home they had leased to us actually belonged to them.
As a fitting end to things, the agency, which was in Port Douglas, Qld, went out of business a year or so after the mess they caused me.
Again, be super careful, and as many have said, document & date everything, photos, yes, video even better - most agents have no moral or ethical values at heart.
Never let them do the final inspection alone - always be there with them. Make sure you have photos (detailed ones) and the original condition report with you to discuss
Bring cleaning materials to the final inspection in case something is pointed out - eg "there's a dirt mark then" "ok let me clean that right now"
If you let the REA go alone minor issues suddenly blow up - eg "grease smudge on the oven door" turns into "entire kitchen is filthy".
Getting some pro's in isn't a bad idea if you aren't good at cleaning or are time poor. Alternatively, do it yourself and then get someone to be "mum" (or dad) to critique it.
Often they will try and claim for things which should be considered fair wear and tear. Here's a link to the guideline for what is considered fair wear and tear in VIC.
https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/library/publications/housing…
Thank you. This helps.
I just did my own cleaning, and the best they were able to hit me with was "dirty shower screen" + "dirty oven". I think it took around 4hrs, which wasn't too bad. Cost $200 to finish the job, I'm reasonably happy with that outcome. Screw cleaning the oven, it was bad enough cleaning the one i actually own
I figure just clean the stuff that's really obvious (kitchen cupboard doors, mirror wardrobe doors) and it will at least make it seem like you tried hard
Helps if the place was a bit dirty to begin with haha
You do NOT have the have professional cleaning done.
Property managers are the lowest of the low.
The property has to be in roughly the same condition it was, as when you moved in. Normal wear and tear is acceptable, especially after 5 years.
If the property manager complains, tell them you will happily take it to the tribunal. Take a tonne of pictures before the hand over the keys.
Absolutely. No doubt. I haven't come across a respectable PM so far. I think it is a good tip to take a lot of pics
I have done what I stated above in a number of rentals, never paid a cent from bond, never had to redo anything, always did the clean myself. Had a couple of PMs try things on, told them I'd see them at the tribunal, suddenly everything was ok.
Just have to know your rights.
I made a massive mistake of letting them know I was moving away once (about 300km) when I ended my lease. They then refused to release the bond because the lawn wasn't mowed (it was, it just took them so long to do the inspection that it had grown back) so I had to pay for that to be done and that I had to pay for a cleaner because I had left a plastic water bottle in the premises.
Wound up driving back 300km, mowing the lawn, throwing out the bottle then sat in their offices until they processed the bond release. They were definitely relying on me to just give up.
They are scumbags.
Two owners and 3 real estate agents have changed the hands since I moved
I doubt the REA/PM even has the "before" pictures so no doubt they will assume it was perfect to screw you over. Use this to your advantage with the old "it was like that when i got here line".
Yeah, this. Tell them you will be returning it in the condition it was received minus wear and tear. Advise them that you have the condition report and photos and that will be your reference. If they ask for a copy you know they don't have one, don't give them this obviously
Rule 1. Take a shitload of photos when you move in
Rule 2. Take a shitload of photos when you move out.You don't need to hire a pro cleaner. You don't need pro carpeting cleaning.
Don't take any crap from the property manager!
Thank you. This is helpful
In my experience they are going to find something, anything, and hope you just pay instead of come back to rectify it, so build that into your plan.
That aside, it depends on what you have to show condition of the property when you moved in, the reason multiple people have said take shit loads of photos when moving in (and send them to the rea) is because that's the proof, if you can't show that something was the way it is now when you moved in, then it's on you to rectify, even if the condition report says stain on carpet if you can't prove the stains size you can bet the rea will claim it's worse now and you'll be on the hook.
For a more straight forward answer, based on my experience again, the oven is never clean enough
Hint for cleaning ovens: soak the stainless steel parts like the shelves in napisan (or similar laundry soaker powder) overnight (eg, laundry sink, enough hot-tap water and the powder). Also good for steel cooktop trivets and similar.
From firsthand experience: do not clean aluminium things this way (they go black)!
In regards to "Fair wear and tear" the ATO guidance for depreciation is the best guide.
If the landlord has fully depreciated the value of something (i.e. air conditioner, oven, carpets, drapery, etc) then they no longer have any inherent value, and hence if they try to come after you for repair / replacement costs they are pretty much out of luck.Most of the bond systems allow you to initiate the bond return process yourself (directly with the state). I'd very much recommend doing this as soon as possible (i.e. the agreed date of departure). REA/PM have no incentive to do this promptly, and will often inadvertantly forget until they are processing the new tenants bond at which time they have to have discharged the first.
If you do it first, it puts onus on the REA to do a prompt inspection, if they don't have time to inspect, they have no choice but to accept the full return (since they'd have no evidence to lodge as valid reason to withhold).Good suggestion. Thank you
They do not need receipt and cannot legally force you to give them one. Respond by saying that you will vacate it better than when you moved in, except for 5 years of normal wear.
As for what they can cause search OZbargain for "real estate vacate cleaning" and have a good read.