Headphone (Open Back) and Headphone Amp Recommendations? - Budget $500- $600

huggsymersh on 30/12/2021 - 17:33
Last edited 31/12/2021 - 10:20 by 1 other user

Anyone care to suggest an open backed headphone + amp combo?

This is a longish read, so thank you in advance if you do read it!

By way of background, I am into audio and I also play a bit of guitar and record it, but not seriously. I've recently gotten into gaming and am spending a bit more time with the headphones on, but also want something to better appreciate hi res music files.

However, I'm finding the options on headphones and amps a little overwhelming. So many options! Would love what other headphone/hifi enthusiasts would recommend.

Note, I'm not too susceptible to gear acquisition syndrome. Once I've reached a decent quality floor I'm generally happy to stay there.

SET UP - This is my current set up to give you an idea of what I like.

  • Stereo - Marantz PM7200 (Class A mode) with Yamaha NS-690III Floorstanders
  • Source - PC, HiRes FLAC files.
  • DAC - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd gen)
  • Headphones - ATSQ5 (Closed backs)
  • Mic - ZOOM H2 Recorder, set up as a USB mic.

USAGE - Gaming/Music, 50/50

Gaming - Mainly FPS (Hell Let Loose), but not particularly competitive. Don't need to hear every single footstep before I die!

Music - Classic Rock + Funk. Music that was recorded at the time my speakers were made (1979) and recorded well, ie. Fleetwood Mac, Dire Straits, Stevie Wonder, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Neil Young. But recent stuff too, particularly when recorded well, i.e. AIR, Daft Punk. Also some jazz, Diana Krall. I'm very much into 90s indie I grew up with (Pavement, My Bloody Valentine), but tend not to bother too much with listening to that stuff seriously as the recordings weren't great.

At the moment, I've not had too many reasons to feel unhappy with my headphones. They were bought mainly for listening on the move, but they've been repurposed as my gaming pair. They broke relatively recently but I managed to solder a bad wire back and fixed them. However, It did get me thinking of other possibilities so I managed to borrow a friend's Beyerdynamic DT770s. The sound isolation of the closed back made gaming impossible, couldn't hear my own voice which was disorientating. However, I was impressed by the greater detail and sound stage of the DT770, although I felt it lacked a bit of bass and I found the treble might be a bit harsh over the long term. I was pleased to find that my response seems fairly consistent with the consensus on these headphones.

Anyway, this got me thinking I would like to explore an upgrade and I went down a circular rabbit hole of research!

Option 1 -

Apparently the headphone output on the Scarlett 2i2 isn't terrible (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLShpyzwvJs&t=1253s)
so I'm thinking perhaps getting a pair of Sennheiser HD 560s…..or possibly a Philips Fidelio XR2 for cheaper more fun option?

Option 2 -

Or up the ante, and get a pair that improve with some amping?

Sennheiser HD 6xx or ATH r70x. Use the Scarlett 2i2 as a DAC, and team with an entryish level headphone amp - one of Drop THX AAA 789, Drop AAA One, Topping L30, or Schitt Magni.

The Drop THX AAA 789 has a RCA passthrough which would be pretty handy, as I could then run my Marantz - Yamaha 690IIIs on the same signal form the PC via the focusrite.

Alternatively, I could keep the focusrite->Marantz->yammy chain for speakers, and get an all-in-one DAC for the headphone set up. I've seen the IFI ZENv2 recommended.

Doubling up on DACs might be a bit unnecessary, but unplugging stuff is a pain and seems like the Zen is the same price as an amp without the DAC.

I also like the sound descriptions of the Hifiman headphones….but the build quality and quality control issues and online buying put me off.

Do any of these options make much sense? Am I missing out on other options? At the price level I'm looking at is it all a much of a muchness?

Also, the reviewers on youtube seem to favour analytic / neutral headphones and just wondering if I'm being swayed into thinking that's the yardstick by which all headphones should be measured? I don't know how my amp/speaker set up would be described, but I doubt it would be considered a neutral monitoring set up.

Therefore, should there be an Option 3 -

Option 3 -

Go into a store and audition them there and buy from the store that let you audition them?

I'm on ozbargain so I guess I want to save money. I'm also quite trustful of the opinions of strangers on the internet I haven't met before….!!! But maybe it's better to spend a little more and get something you're happy with, than taking a gamble on online purchases you haven't managed to listen to.

Thanks if you got this far and have any thoughts you wish to share.

Electrical & Electronics Headphone Amplifier Headphones

Comments

  • S2200 on 30/12/2021 - 18:14
    +1

    When it comes to which headphone to buy, one of the best pieces of advice I've come across online is to try them out yourself at the store. They are a bit like food. People may have different tastes and preferences. Same is the case with audio. Going to the store is the only way to truly find out what sounds best to your ears.

    • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:21

      Yes I think you have a good point. And as I was writing my long post, I felt like I was drifting towards that conclusion as well!

      I'm not too far from an Addicted to Audio actually. I just realised I could take my focusrite along with me so I can hear what a set up would sound like through the interface v headphone amp. I hope they have patience for the entry level people out there. I noticed some of the wooden headphone stands for the high end headphones they sell approach the price of entry level headphones (when on special)!

  • Gnostikos on 30/12/2021 - 19:00
    +1

    Philips Fidelio X2HR.

    Great bang-for-your-buck, entry-level audiophile headphones with a very colourful, warm, bassy, V-shaped sound signature that will go well with most genres and tastes and they're very easy to drive. On top of that, the comfort is unbeatable in any price range; they may very well be some of the most comfortable headphones ever. Even with my extra large head, I can wear them literally all day (and I do when WFH) and pretty much forget that they're there.

    Their successor, the X3s are less well-reviewed and seem to be inferior in many aspects, so I would stay clear of them.

    • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:23

      Yes I hear a lot of praise for the X2HR, as well as a lot of condescension from the more refined audiophile reviewers. I guess without hearing them I don't know which camp I would fall into!

      I actually almost pulled the trigger when they were last on sale for approx $180….seems like they go on special reasonable regularly although if the success is out I wonder if they are still producing them or it's all old stock?

  • garetz on 30/12/2021 - 19:19
    +2

    For your budget i would recommend a Hd6xx and a schiit stack, there is no better value than that out there. If you want more bass then get the x2hr instead of the 6xx.

    • plmko on 30/12/2021 - 19:59
      +1

      I prefer Topping gear instead, similar prices but much more up to date in hardware.

      • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:28

        I do have a tiny Topping d-amp I bought many years ago for an office desktop setup. Quite impressive performance at low volumes and I think it was just when they were getting good reviews. Again, hard to know which one to go for at the moment cos all brands seem to have their admirers and the pricing is relatively similar.

        I still like the Drop THX 789, but mainly for the RCA passthrough. A stupid reason to like an amp but very useful for my set up!

    • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:26

      Thanks. I was thinking that the combo of HD6xx and schitt stack seems to hit a sweet spot of refined audio enthusiast consensus opinion. It's just hard pulling the trigger on buying without having heard. Based on reviews I've read, that combo does seem to offer a good balanced mid-fi level of performance without too many issues. Any reason why you go the schitt over the topping or drop amps, or is just that you're more familiar with them?

  • plmko on 30/12/2021 - 19:55

    Scale down to earphones. Not only will the quality be immensely improved in your small budget but in games they are much better.

    Not sure why more people don't consider earphones for games. So many people ask why I can hear things so quickly but really there's no trick I just use a good pair of earphones.

    • klyvenator on 30/12/2021 - 20:34

      Which earphones you use?

      • plmko on 30/12/2021 - 23:21

        I have a big collection but my favourite is the Sony XBA-Z5 but also enjoy cheap ones like Moondrop SSP.

    • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:32

      Thanks pimko. I've had a pair of earphones in the past (UE IEMS) which were great but sadly I lost, along with the sansa clip I had :(

      I seem to recall they offer great isolation from external sounds. Which is something I've wanted to avoid because I need to hear myself speak during gaming, as well as wanting a open back design for better sound stage and what not. But it never occurred to me that open back IEMs may exist. Seems they do.

      Care to recommend a pair or are you sending me down another rabbit hole!

  • UnknownUser74 on 30/12/2021 - 21:44
    +1

    What about the Philips x2 fidelio.

    • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 10:18

      Yep thanks, it's one of the pairs I mentioned considering on my thread. Just not having heard them it's all a bit unknown.

  • jasswolf on 31/12/2021 - 15:07
    +1

    You're safe to blind buy the 6XX, it's a great addition to any headphone collection, but imaging and stage width will be the drawbacks. It's still highly usable, especially with a good DAC chip.

    Amp wise you've got the option of the SP200 via Drop for the same price you'd be paying for a Magni 3+ ($210ish). They're two different types of amp (effective op-amp vs discrete amp), but the SP200 is a higher grade of quality overall, just not ideal for IEMs due to some minor noise floor issues.

    Next option to further scale up on the amp side would be the Schiit Asgard 3 (maybe $400 import, $430 local if they have stock, was originally $330 import though), while scaling down is possible with the Tempotec Sonata E44 off AliExpress ($80ish after coupons and cashbacks during a sale), which will warm the sound up further and diminish the stage width on any given headphone (due to its double DAC combo within a compact DAC/amp dongle), but offers a very clean, precise image otherwise. The only issues with dongles as dedicated devices is longevity issues, and Tempotec seem to have some mild QC issues as they drive for low prices.

    To give a quick summary of differences: DACs are more capable of altering the tonality and sharpening notes (aliasing), while amps tend to help with other aspects of technical performance (control of the driver through more appropriately controlled current and voltage), but both can aid or mess with the signal in a variety of ways (signal noise, harmonics, intermodulation distortion). Don't just go for the 'cleanest' measuring DAC and amp, particularly the DAC.

    Headphone wise your other options worth looking in or near to your price range are:

    • HIFIMAN HE400SE ($209 Amazon), slightly treble forward of neutral, high value for price but not at 6XX level, diffuse imaging and not super dynamic in its execution

    • HIFIMAN Edition XS ($600 on AliE as it's jumped in price, probably going to be $700+ local when it reaches our shores), a good mashup of the HIFIMAN Edition X and their Ananda, with the width and dryness of the Ananda slightly diminished, and instead replaced with more bass extension, better timbre and surprisingly precise imaging in all directions (at least for a HIFIMAN planar in this price range)

    • Anan's Nan-6 ($650 from Taobao) a DIY enclosure and driver that strongly resembles the HIFIMAN HE-6 with a Susvara-esque tonality… not a super wide sounding headphone, but unlikely to get a better combo of detail, imaging and tonality for under $2000 unless you buy a used/heavily-discounted HE-6 variant and mod it

    • AKG K612 Pro ($200 Amazon) if you want to hunt imaging and soundstage more than anything else

    Going back to your original choices, the 6XX will scale more on good gear than the R70X, but the R70X offers better imaging and a wider stage, just at the expense of vocal timbre (in part due to a slight grain the mids, the presence of which can be cleaned up by a DAC that isn't too aliased in its output signal).

    I think the Nan-6 presents a really intriguing prospect given the change in price on the Edition XS, but the amp requirements for both of those they probably blow your budget either way.

    Delving into your queries in the comments, IEM wise - for an elevated sonic experience for the price - you're looking at the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk ($430-$450 direct from Shenzhen Audio only) for something that offers great detail, though at a cost of timbre compared to say the 6XX, with the multi-driver arrangement becoming a factor there (BA timbre). That being said, you'd be losing on soundstage against most options I've listed. A more timbre-focused option might be the Moondrop Kato, or you can step down again to the Moondrop Aria (yes, Moondrop are hitting it out of the park at the moment).

    TLDR: SP200 + 6XX from drop would be super high value, but look into the Nan-6 (audition a HE-6 model and the Susvara locally) and Edition XS (audition locally) longer term, and upgrade your DAC, probably to a non-Sabre (ESS) based solution.

  • huggsymersh on 31/12/2021 - 17:33
    +2

    Hey jazzwolf, amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Hopefully someone else who has similar needs will see this thread as well and benefit from it.

    The SP200 + 6XX combo from drop comes to around approx $440AUD which sounds pretty compelling to me.

    Thanks for the other options you've listed as well. Price and practicality is a key consideration here, only because I am relatively easy to please and my experience of hifi is that once I reach a certain level I don't tend to tinker too much. I've had a couple of amps driving my speakers over the years, including a tube amp. I've had a Technics SL 10 turntable but nixed my vinyl collection once I realised I was spending more time hunting vinyl than listening! Several sets of speakers but have consolidated it down quite a bit and am happy with my current set up, except for headphones. Sounds like the SP200 + 6XX hits a nice entry level sweetspot.

    One thing on DACs, seems like the focusrite doesn't get rated too highly so perhaps it's a bit pointless to find a headphone amp to passthrough the signal to my Integrated Amp - > Speakers. The focusrite will always be useful for my audio recording, actually not trying to do anything too special with this, so that's a keeper. But wonder if it's a good opportunity to get a dedicated DAC that can output into the existing integrated amp -> speakers, and headphone amp-> headphone?

    I have a friend who has been an audio mentor to me over the years and I had a philips CD player with the a somewhat well regarded DAC in the past, before the CD player died (https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/history_of_the_Philips_tda…). It did sound a little sweeter and smoother than a cheaper CD player I had but I would be lying if I could guarantee that I could tell the difference. Compared to say, comparing the Focusrite to the onboard Realtek mobo soundcard where the difference is really noticeable.

    The Tempotec sounds great for the $ but I'd be happy to spend a little more for something with longevity and build quality. Although I do have the $29 behringer DAC from when I first started out. Sometimes cheap doesn't skip a beat.

    Having something to manage signals without having to unplug when switching between integrated amp and headphone amp would make life easier. I prioritise practicalities and I actually use Creative Pebbles as my desktop speaker because a lovely set of bookshelves I have won't fit on the desk. They are pretty terrible but you get used to it…..and surprisingly, they weren't a whole lot worse (at low volumes) than those cute little audio engine A2 speakers the PC desk set-up people live to have

    Do you have Drop referral code? Please send it my way if you do and I'll make sure to include it if I go ahead with the drop purchase.

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