Back down to US$199, great option for those who don’t mind waiting for the shipping from the US.
Plenty of review on the internet for this particular HP Amp, hopefully the usual peeps here can chime in too ;)
SMSL SP200 is also down to US$140 from Drop, although I’d still get the THX789 due to better physical design and finish for a bit of extra $.
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$1695
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Product Code RME-ADI2DACFS
RME ADI2 DAC FS Ultra-Fidelity PCM/DSD 768kHz DA Converter
good lord
i knew it was going to be expensive but i was blown away by that
i do get that its made in germany and pretty much top top end
Great combo, already have the RME, they're USD $1200 thought used to go on special a bit more but wasn't this year.
would really only be using SE output (anagloge non-balanced rca) to the 789 if wanted to use in the same setup as monitors..
Hmm.. My current hp amp has plenty of grunt, may be a little cleaner i guess.
It's really cute, but the features on it can be done in your computer, and you can get equally good/better measuring gear for less than $200. I don't believe there's a reason to spend $1200 on a DAC in this day and age.
Some well measuring balanced DACs include:
etc.
If you were able to forgo balanced, you could even get a $50 usb dongle (Tempotec Sonata HD) that measures and performs within the ballpark of the RME.
True, not the cheapest but good quality and no oddities, got it from a mate so for <$1000 was pretty good.
Just wanted something for my active monitors with a proper volume control + remote, balanced XLR outputs. Once you combine those needs, and note I don't have a pc connected in that setup then it's a great proposition. Also sold my original DAC magic for $230 so it pays to buy decent equipment, and lasts a long time.
My pc setup I got an iFi Zen DAC which has been great for $199 and does MQA etc, would most likely feed the 789 with RCA from that.
@piupiupiu that's another option to look at too. once you spend ~$600-800 there are more options like those Gustard X16, SMSL SU-9 and Topping D30 etc.
Depends on your needs and equipment you're pairing.
edit: can the $10 signup be used in conjunction with 1.5% cashback and a 5$ amazon gift card?
@G-rig: When it was released it was quite groundbreaking, I do admit. It also has lots of convenience features that - while I wouldn't use it - are pretty heckin neat.
I unfortunately cannot recommend the Zen DAC because it measures terribly with anemic power for how much it costs. Consider that the Hidizs S9 (a lil $140 dongle) measures an order of magnitude better (lower SINAD, distortion, jitter… etc), while also providing the same amount of power.
MQA is also snakeoil, so don't pay it too much mind. Goldensound also has a great exposé on his channel concerning MQA. I'd stay away from his reviews though as they're incredibly pseudoscientific and marred with observer bias.
@notmaroun: Agree I'll prob not use many of the features but my mate let me have it cheap ~800-1000 so was a no brainer. The overall quality and detail is something else.
Zen DAC has done the job alright with Tidal and FLAC collection on the PC based setup, could be time to upgrade that and the m-stage anyway so would be able to get something back. Far superior to most pc sound anyway.
I used to think MQA was pretty good and still like the sound, you can hear 'extra' detail, but fairly controversial and wouldn't pay extra just for that feature (which is why I still chose the ADI-2). I still don't believe the sound is any worse per-se, they just play with it and add layers. Not wrong about forums, can waste a lot of time on there for nothing with anecdotal and people that own x brand/unit. AVS Forums seem good with the initial reviews and posted data at least, then make up your own mind. Some people just hate MQA but it's not that bad or good, particularly with Tidal for $3 a month from Argentina.
@G-rig: MQA does not add extra detail - it actually removes it. There is no layering or tinkering. You can see Goldensound's well documented experience to explore how deep of a scam MQA actually can be.
If you want to emphasise certain details in your music, just apply a good ol' parametric EQ.
There are rarely bad products on the market, just bad prices. The Zen Dac performs worse than a $50 dongle, and MUCH worse than a $100 balanced dongle… At a $200 pricepoint.
@notmaroun: Ok may try a dongle style to pair with the 789, no need to have a physical box with standard I/Os if connected to a PC. Although you have to factor in the balanced to RCA adaptor to XLR cost.
As long as the products are well built and reviewed, but most importantly works well for your gear and ears.
Not worth getting into mqa discussions, don't think anyone can actually hear if it sounds better or worse vs cd 44.1, just depends if your equipment supports it. The annoying thing with Mqa is it seems to fall back to 44.1 not 96kHz etc on non mqa dacs.
As for EQ I always leave it flat, unless your headphones had spikes.. must be the 1990 pros that sound good on everything then.
@G-rig: I use the DT1990 Pros with Dekoni and Brainwavz pads… Sometimes I EQ down the treble peak and bump the 1khz region a bit, otherwise I mostly use it stock.
Although you have to factor in the balanced to RCA adaptor to XLR cost.
The 789 has SE input, so just 3.5mm to RCA, right?
@G-rig: I linked it above, but here it is again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc
Of course MQA responded like absolute twats, which you can watch here:
@G-rig: The problem w/ hearing a difference is that you need to be double blinded. The scientific consensus is generally that our ears suck and have tons of observer/confirmation bias.
I can't tell the difference between my motheboard's ALC1200 and Schiit Modius. I know trained listeners who can when double blinded, but I can't.
The problem with listening for differences is that you are rapidly A/Bing between short snippets of sound to try and spot minutae in certain details. The notion that you really "settle into details" when you listen for long periods of time is a myth. I stop hearing my crappy subwoofer hum after like a minute of "critical listening". Our short term memory doesn't work in the order of minutes, but the order of seconds.
I can tell you that I hear no difference, but you need to take that with a grain of salt. What you shouldn't take with a grain of salt is the measurements, and the understanding that our hearing suckkkkks. I challenge you to consistently A/B yourself with 192kbps OPUS and FLAC. I certainly failed.
@notmaroun: Yeah ok, people always say that. What was your test gear/music for context? With better equipment the floors in the sound are more evident.
With the price of storage and substituting digital floor physical CDs who wouldn't rip to FLAC/lossless? It's nice to know you have the best media source at least. I can hear the difference and ripped to MP3 cbr256 the first time. Ofc the quality of recording and mastering makes the most difference. If people are obsessive compulsive about the rest of their equipment then it's fair to say why not FLAC?
Have you got the qobuz trial? 96kHz and above sounds pretty clean..
Cheers
PS wondering if you've heard a) iFi Zen Dac or b) mqa?
With better equipment the floors in the sound are more evident.
To an extent. This doesn't mean that most people will be able to tell you the difference between lossy and lossless audio however. What are these "floors" in the sound made of? If you refer to dynamic range, then that is the domain of bit-depth.
I can hear the difference and ripped to MP3 cbr256 the first time.
Can you really? Were you double blinded? Or did you simply play two known files, and come to a conclusion based on which file you played? Again, I'm not saying that it is not possible to tell the difference, only that most people do not know how to. A trained listener will almost certainly know which pieces of a song to skip to to identify known limitations of compression algorithms.
What was your test gear/music for context?
I've demoed lots of other gear, but I own and frequently use:
- Tempotec Sonata HD Pro
- Schiit Modius
- Schiit Magni Heresy
- DT1990 Pro (with various Dekoni and Brainwavz pads)
- Hifiman HE400SE (the double sided magnet one)
PS wondering if you've heard a) iFi Zen Dac or b) mqa?
Have not heard the Zen Dac, but I expect it to sound audibly transparent based on my experiences A/B testing my Modius with my onboard ALC1220VB.
Have heard MQA on a Topping D90. It sounded… The same.
I again caution you against the value of any of my anecdotes, because again, confirmation bias yadda yadda. I can however can attest to the videoslink I sent above talking about MQA and explaining why it is nonsense on a more technical level.
I also want to mention that I store all my music in FLAC because preservation. I'm not trying to make any case against the importance of lossless storage (for pictures or for music), I'm only saying that lossy compression algorithms are incredibly sophisticated and our ears can't really do a good job of telling the difference.
Give this a try though, do the "Spotify HQ Test". It's encoded at AAC VBR 256, and goes through a few songs. I'm just outside margin of error for the Spotify standard test, and I cannot pass the Spotify HQ test. If you're curious I also failed the OPUS test, which I think speaks more for OPUS' quality than it does my hearing.
@notmaroun: All good points, agree most may not be able to hear great differences once MP3s are over 192kbps but anything less is Fairlane nasty.. dynamic range, crystallisation and background hiss.
Up to the individual, but if ripping hundreds of CDs why wouldn't you do lossless. You can easily batch convert to MP3 albums for portable (and I have done so) but you can stream most stuff anyway (and download for offline playback).
If you're chasing marginal gains then it makes sense to have the best source files you can, then don't have to worry about that at least.
Not that fussed for a/b testing and don't use Spotify but will take a look, sounds interesting. Home theatre and hi-fi bunch are a funny lot, I try not to hang out on those forums or you'd never be happy and find problems that aren't problems, plus everyone has their own options as you say. Try not to parrot all that crap as well
Point is, as long as people are happy with the sound and explore/test difference equipment - that's part of the journey. It's impossible to ever have 'the best', although good to find the sweet spot and bang for buck.
Or dragonfly red is meant to be good, for laptop or phone
https://www.minidisc.com.au/audioquest-dragonfly-red-usb-dac…
Dfly red is garbage for the money, measure an order of magnitude worse than the Tempotec Sonata HD pro costing only $50.
Thoughts on entry level balanced DAC to pair the 789 with? Was thinking of Soncoz LA QXD1 or Schiit Modius, still not sure which one to try..
Ask yourself if you really need balanced (and a 789) to start with…
If balanced is neccessary, the Hidizs S9 Pro for $140 provides 4V balanced output and measures the same as competitors more than double its price.
The Khadas Tone2 Pro and Topping D10 balanced also measure great, but cost a bit more.
I'm a Modius owner, but IMO its overpriced and audibly transparent from my Hidizs S9 Pro for less than half its price.
Tone2 Pro jumped in price, and making the case for Hidizs S9 Pro makes an even better case for the Tempotec Sonata E44.
@jasswolf: The E44 looks great and has been on my radar for a while… I just hate that they stuck the cables out instead of giving me jacks to plug into. I feel like I'll break it with even a minor oopsie.
Thanks for the insight! Yeah I really like the 789 due to the versatility, able to have very clean sound on IEMs and decent power for bigger cans, and having plenty of head room for future proofing. But you know, mostly looking to get new toys LOL.
Honestly I just want the cheapest balanced DAC that doesn’t look too bad design wise to try to complete the full balanced chain, even though I know balanced is not king anyway (I can’t differentiate the sound from my 11 year old Schiit Modi from a brand new mid tier measurement beast SMSL). I guess I’lljust stick with my old DAC for now and find second hand Modius or something..
Just note that the pass through is only for SE input. Balanced input can't be pass through in this amp.
Balanced xlr input to analogue headphone out is fine I assume (i.e last in the chain before headphones). I assume you are talking about passing to a receiver or something?
Bit hard to compare specs, not sure if its worth upgrading an older matrix m-stage? It would be worth it for a regular/standard amp size (instead of long-narrow).
ps. Would prefer THX (and Drop enhance the quality), but good to compare both on AVS forums etc. There is a big following for brands like Topping and other chifi but the price has crept up a lot, even though generally good and feature rich. Can be a bit querky and look like cheap crap.
Yeah agreed. I wanted a capable headphone amp with a passthrough to use as a preamp for my passive speakers. I think its a great headphone amp, but I think not having that passthrough capability is a little downfall, but its not a big deal for most. Priced at $296 and if it works for your scenario, you would be hard pressed to do better.
That's fair enough, has to suit your requirements as you say. I've got some active monitors so still not sure if i'd be able to hook up balanced from rme-2 to both the speakers and hp amp (without an xlr splitter), unless there's a single balanced connection. it wouldn't be in the same room anyway but like the flexibility. May still get something back for the m-stage if i sold hopefully, but nothing wrong with it, just that and the ifi zen dac are irregular shaped devices :P
Hey Mate,
Any idea if the SP200 is capable of passthrough? I have powered/active PC Speakers I'd like to connect via XLR and then control the source between headphones/speakers on the amp itself using it's toggle switch.
I don’t think so, no. No Pre Output, no passthrough, fairly barebones THX headphone amp..
Yeah nah SP200 doesn't have that capability. Off the top of my head, I think the IFI Zen Can is a good candidate, as it takes in 4.4mm input and output, meaning you could get a simple 4.4mm bal to XLR dual I believe, and that should work in your system.
Thanks guys.
I've got a Topping E30 on the way, I'll just run it through that.
topping dx3 pro plus is the same price
Modern Topping offerings measure better for the same price/cheaper. They also have the A30 pro for a bit more, which provides more power than you'll ever need, and measures like a champ too.
Get the SMSL SP200 THX AAA-888 for $140, THX AAA 888 has theretical higher spec than THX AAA 789
What about real world?
returned an SMSL SU-9 from Amazon after researching and finding out it was the old version with the 3rd Harmonic distortion problem. Had a turn on-off and input selector pop, could never get it working with windows after trying various drivers etc. Chi-fi is a bit wild, but ymmv. An amp would be a lot less trouble you'd think.
Nice if they standardised the width of all these devices, as they are a lot smaller now than your old school hi-fi components.
Theoretically yes you are correct, but I much prefer the build quality of the THX789, e.g. better volume knob, better metal construction, etc.
In my opinion, I doubt that I can hear the difference between 789 and 888, they’re all fantastic.
What is this and will it give me better sound quality then my Apple Wireless Ear Buds? Do I need better quality listening to music streamed over the internet and watching youtube video's? Or is this all just unnecessary now in 2021?
As a general rule of thumb, an amp on its own will not give you better sound quality. An amp as such, will allow you to power harder to drive headphones. With the right stack or pipeline (DAC, Amp, Headphones/Speaker etc), yes it will sound a lot better than your Apple Wireless Ear Buds (that's subjective). Music only sounds different, whether its better or not, well you gotta decide that.
Yes, it will make music streamed over the internet, even Youtube, sound pretty good (imo). Once again, not the Amp on its own. But with the right pairing of the stack, they can sound like you're listening your fav song for the first time.
Just my 2 cents :)
What is a cheap Ozbargain go to with everything built together in 1 box? DAC, amp, to drive a $300 100-250 ohm headphone?
The audio community is a bit suss with this question tbh. I personally would recommend you look into a IFI Zen Dac - its around $250ish, and its a fairly solid performer across the board or even the Topping DX3 pro.
Maybe look in to the L30/E30 (or L30/D30s) or the Schiit stack with the Modi and Magni. Both are a bit pricier, but measure better. I think the biggest benefit there is you can always upgrade the DAC or Amp separately.
But I feel that the Zen Dac is a fairly solid starting point. Specially if you go and use a balanced cable with that. I know it doesn't measure as well as some of the Topping or SMSL offerings. But I've owned and used it before, and its sounded great with my setup.
Agreed, then it's a matter of the weakest link in the chain. Good not to get sucked into the world of interconnects and improvements you can't hear, which is why I like usb from PC to DAC usually, also nice and simple. I'm running volumio on a raspberry pi 4 setup with USB out and it's a great sounding source. No need for expensive complicated hats and analogue add-ons.
Anyway as far as amps go the 789 is meant to be a very good one, it's not all just power but clean power.
Ordered using a 10$ off first signup, and through drop via shopback app. No idea if I'll get the 1.5% but used the CRO VDC for 3% cashback too ($8.48 AUD)
I can recommend the iFi Zen DAC too, solid construction, volume control, headphone amp is good enough until you want better, windows drivers and pre-amp mode with tidal just works.
Too many settings on the rme to even get it going as easily as a pre out, as the volume still seemed to take affect.
I think topping E50 will be a good dac
How big of a step from the d10 balanced would the E50 be?
except for blue tooth connection, you can't go wrong with e50
It is among the top of the top.
D10 is very good as well and slightly rank lower than e50
THX 789 is not better built than SP200 888.
I have the 789 from way back and there is nothing about it that is built better than my dad's 888. Tbh I'm a bit bitter about it since I also paid full price.
The only reason I got the 789 was because the 888 wasn't available at the time. For 60 USD less on a supposedly better amp, I would definitely go with 888.
Looks cheap, is there a thx version?
Don't know why a lot of chi-fi look like old set top boxes from the 90s. Agree sound is the main thing but still..
I agree that it’s not better built, similar thin plate of metals, it’s just how they deal with the industrial design that’s different. Different approach on materials and finish does make the difference in my opinion. Also, SMSL’s volume knob feels cheap, returned mine for that reason.
Yeah and that 99 on the screen is dumb when using the pre out option (full vol). Just quirky and a lot of those devices have DIY looking displays and other quirks that don't feel premium like the good brands. Get what you pay for.
What do people here think of the TOPPING DX3PRO+ that was released past 3 months? Dac + Amp in one for around $265 AUD.
Measure exceptionally clean with plenty of power to boot.
I haven't been keeping up with Topping's stream of releases, but this one really seems like a homerun!
I wouldn't using it with inefficient, low-impedance cans (some planars come to mind), but otherwise it seems like a very strong offering for the money.
I have an elcheapo 5 year old $250 HD598 Sennheiser, I think they are 50 ohms. Currently running off a 'cough' built in soundcard on the motherboard. Is 50 Ohms too low for the DX3Pro+ you reckon? I need to get those 250 ohm headphones? Or stick to something elcheapo like the Fosi $60 Q4 for the HD598's.
Oh no the 589s are fine. You'd have to be driving something very dumb and very inefficient and very loud to trip the DX3 up.
Pretty good value for great measuring DAC Amp combo! More option to compare against the Zen DAC I suppose.
Without looking into it again, I think there was an issue with them not providing an AU plug for this and it being a weird voltage/amp requirement for the power supply to easily find a compatible one in AU. It was a while ago when I was looking into it so it may have changed, but I ended up getting a Schiit Modius/Asgard 3 instead to save the hassle.
Hmm forgot to consider that, the pic shows 24V.
Edit: will be fine.
Power supply: 24 VDC inline brick, universal input 100–240 VAC.
May look at upgrading the iFi Zen Dac for something next, perhaps with a balanced output to the balanced XLR inputs on the 789. Good quality RCA still sounds pretty good otherwise.
Wondering how much better replacing some thick (decent quality directional) RCA with a 4.4mm Pentaconn (balanced) to XLR cable from the back of the Zen Dac would be? Balanced is always better, but not paying $150 for the iFi cable. Found some nice short cables from Amazon for about $30 USD plus shipping..
Alternatively, sell iFi and get something like the Hidizs S9 PRO (would still need proprietary 2.5mm balanced cable), for a topping D50/s etc. Standard balanced connectors are most versatile, would still get a short pair anyway but have some 2m ones lying around.
Cheers
I'm never a believer in fancy cables to be honest, anything that's not too thin should do the job (too thick means more copper and more exxy, not necessarily mean better quality for the x amount of money you pay extra. not to mention it tends to be harder to bend too most of the time).
Regarding DAC, I'd probably stick with the iFi if I were you.. only get the Hidizs if you have more than one use for it, say, listening on the go? Just my 2 cents..
Agree mate, you can spend a crapload on fancy interconnects chasing extremely marginal gains, that you can or can't hear. Was more taking about the 4.4mm proprietary cable in order to unlock balanced output to the amp. I think that given I have already got the Zen DAC then spending USD$30 or something on a cable is alright. Balanced usually lowers noise and interference etc but the RCA's still sound good.
Those USB dongle DACs still aren't that cheap and look a bit flimsy/finachy and aimed at phones/laptops, not really interested in them.
It's always fun to try new stuff but agree that once you hit a certain minimum level of gear, upgrades often result in changes to sound as opposed to major sonic improvements. Personally I prefer warm over clinical sound so should pair up well with the 789.
Cheers
Amp turned up today, pretty fast via UPS from the states. I've usually got some of those Aussie power leads you plug into the power bricks, but got one from Jaycar $8. Bunnings have them a bit cheaper i found out later. I think you can even bend the pins with pliers (which would be the ozbargain way), which I may do for a cheap battery charger.
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2pin-fig-8-mains-plug-to-iec-c7-fe…
https://www.bunnings.com.au/jackson-1-2m-replacement-iec-lea…
P.s. the power button seems a bit dodgy, like it's loose or something. I expected it is meant to function like the input one (spring loaded push toggle) or do you hold it on?
ta.
Sound is pretty good, don't want to start scouring the next for x pairs with x headphones (I got the 1990 pros), as it's versatile with balanced outputs for the future and would drive a range of headphones. My old amp may have been smoother match of maybe muffled things slightly but the clarity is pretty good. Just hoping not too bright with the ifi and 1990s. The balanced cable should be alright (ebay $50)
hey thanks for posting this, glad it arrived fast! UPS is usually fast, it's the massdrop DHL that is super slow, slower than USPS even..
Power button is not dodgy, it's just a simple single press button, more like soft power button because normally it'd go into standby mode. But I agree with your sentiment, feels loose indeed, almost like cheaply made. I always have it on all the time anyway so it doesn't matter much to me.
Since this amp is supposed to be very linear and neutral, you should think more of how your source sounds since this amp's job is to amplify it. Go explore different DACs (can get really expensive really quickly), or play with EQ (is not a sin..) I reckon your ifi should do fine unless you're after something very different like R2R DAC or something like that..
Cheers mate, no worries at all. That's a relief, I gathered it worked that way but wasn't sure. I've flicked the rear switch from passthrough to Auto-Off 'on'.
Just going through some music atm. The sounds is a cleaner i think, and pairs up pretty well with my other gear :D. The Matrix M-Stage packs a good punch, smooth and did me since 2009, still going like a champ.
I'm pretty sure the linear 789 amp should be good for most/all headphones, and as good as you'd ever need in practical terms.
The rest is down to personal preference and could spend a lot of money and time testing different combinations of gear. Top end stuff may be 10% better sound for 10X the price. Helps not getting too obsessive with it all, and the forums, searching for the ultimate utopia.
Anyway my mate had this one ages ago with the ADI-2 combo and it's really a good combo (haven't tested together)
Pretty happy :D
Pretty good price, these are great. Would pair up perfectly with an RME adi-2, although using it in another room with monitors.