Student Laptop - Touchscreen - Yes/No?

Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 09:38

Good morning all.

I have a child starting high school next year and I figured I'd get in early to avoid the last-minute rush. Her school has indicated that touchscreens are not a requirement but are beneficial and are recommended. While I can see some benefits, I figure it wouldn't be used that much. But what do I know, I'm old and things change I guess.

I've actually ordered a Lenovo IdeaPad 5 14" for her (just last night) but I've now discovered I can get the Lenovo IdeaPad Flex 5 14" with the almost identical specs (apart from touchscreen of course) for the same price.

Specs:
R5 5500U
16gb RAM
512 SSD
52/56Wh batteries

What concerns me is the display on the Flex 5, which is a 250nit gloss display versus the 300nit matte display on the regular IdeaPad. I get that neither are exceptional but for student use I figured the 300nit would be more than sufficient.

Just how awful would the 250nit glossy display be? I've read plenty of reviews online and they all indicate the display is dull and reflective but for real-world use would it be a deal-breaker? Am I best to stick with the non-touch IdeaPad or opt for the Flex?

I'm torn as I figured for the same price I might as well add the touchscreen capabilities but not at the expense of usability if the display is unreadable in a bright classroom.

Thanks in advance.

Computing Computer Laptop

Comments

  • Orico on 02/10/2021 - 10:45

    Buy a Lenovo thinkpad, elitebook or dell latitude or Surface.

    Forget all other laptops.

    Dell outlet:
    https://www.dell.com/en-au/outlet/work/shop/laptops-tablets?…

    1.

    Buy her a 13". 13 year old girls don't need to be lugging around a laptop all day let alone a 14".
    https://www.dell.com/en-au/outlet/refurbished-latitude-13-73…

    2.

    Buy this and you'll not have to worry about getting her a new laptop for 7 years.
    https://www.dell.com/en-au/outlet/refurbished-latitude-14-74…
    14" screen but massive battery and long battery life!

    -

    Just how awful would the 250nit glossy display be?

    None of this matters. We use to use a 12" CRT monitor back in the day and graduated with honours no problem.

    • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:06

      Thanks, but the Dells and HP Elitebooks are a bit outside our price range. I'm looking at about $1100.

      I did look closely at the ThinkPad but they seemed a bit bulkier and heavier (more durable though).

  • Mechz on 02/10/2021 - 10:53
    +2

    Get the touch screen because what works for you might not work for your kid.

    • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:06

      Yeah I'm leaning towards the touchscreen but the screen worries me a bit.

      • savemore on 02/10/2021 - 11:10
        +1

        Not sure how good your kid is with looking after their technology, but working in Education, I have seen a number of laptops get damaged and unless you have good insurance for accidental damage, replacing touch screens can be very costly (i.e. more than 25% of cost of laptop). I know of at least 1 kid that is on their 3rd laptop in 2 years.

        • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:23
          +1

          She's been pretty good so far but it's definitely one of my fears that'll I'll spend all this time figuring out the best laptop for her only for it to be mangled in the first week…

  • trex on 02/10/2021 - 11:03
    +1

    I bought the Flex 5 for my son’s high school. He’s been using for nearly a year now. works great and I love it! The Fingerprint reader on the Flex 5 is very convenient.

    No issues at all with 250 nits since it’s used only indoors. Brighter screens shorten battery life anyway. His school requires laptop to be touch screen but he told me they have not used it.

    • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:11

      Thanks for that.

      How's the glossy screen? Are the reflections annoying at all?

      • trex on 02/10/2021 - 11:58

        Hardly notice the reflections.

  • websterp on 02/10/2021 - 11:10

    While touchscreen enabled PCs and laptops are great for some (POS, stock management, etc.) applications and tasks that are repetitive I'd suggest you encourage your child to use the keyboard and mouse if this laptop is going to be her primary use PC. I have seen kids picking up a habit of using the touchscreen to do everything even when it could be done much more effectively using a keyboard and mouse and this ultimately affects their ability to use the keyboard productively and type quickly which is a skill that is quite important during school/uni and in most careers they will take up in the future.

  • deme on 02/10/2021 - 11:14

    I come across all sorts of devices in my line of work, personally I've found the touchscreen a bit of a gimmic but I spend most of my time writing code/docs/meetings/testing.

    Oh it's for your kid, get whatever they need and relax it's not worth worrying about.

  • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 11:23
    +1

    At uni at least, the only time I used the touch function of a Surface Pro 3 was when I had to use the digitiser to jot things down on PDFs during lectures.
    I probably would have been better with a proper laptop and a tablet that has a stylus support, but that was when there weren't that many great options for something with a digitiser so meh.

    Even now, I just use my tablet (Galaxy Tab S7) for notetaking during webinars, and most of the typing up gets done on PC.

    That said, I am kinda bordering that generation where touchscreens were not really a thing (Blackberries were still a thing when I was in high school, that kind of thing).

    • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:33

      Apart from PCM classes, I never used computers in school so I can't really appreciate how dependent kids are on laptops in relation to education.

      In terms of touchscreens, the only use I could come with is as you described, noting documents and so forth but I'm probably out of touch (no pun intended).

      • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 11:49

        Barum tish.

        Frankly speaking, I always preferred physically writing things with pen and paper more, less distraction and more focus on the lecturer.
        It's just that:

        1. it was getting to a point where I was trying to write down important graph or stats and had to catch up to where the lecturer is afterwards, because reading off the slides is much faster than copying the graph down.
        2. printing the slides was wasteful in terms of money and paper. Digitally doing it was less wasteful, but I found it slightly less effective in terms of learning because I get distracted.

        That said, my university is very old schooled with researchers, who never wanted to teach, teaching because of the obligations. I think the technology could be used effectively to teach, my university just wasn't interested. But I think I am digressing now :P

  • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 11:47
    +1

    So it's been half a decade that we've had touchscreens on laptops… and they still aren't a great option.
    For your standard workload of Browsing, Word, Excel, etc etc it doesn't add anything (in fact, could make the experience worse). And for these sorts of workloads, you will usually need a 12in-15in screen, which means it starts to get cumbersome to use it as a tablet.

    The MS SurfaceBook seems the "least offensive" because it supports Pen Input, is powerful laptop in itself, which can get its full-keyboard deattached.

    The best implementation I've seen is on the iPad. Those are great as tablets at the 10in-12in size. Have Pen Input. And can have a (third-party ?) keyboard accessory attached that isn't a thin floppy thing, but a thicker hard base which sits much more securely and comfortably on your lap. It's only a shame, that the Operating System does not transition to macOS to better serve that experience. But this could be coming in the next few years.

    • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 12:02

      Okay, so just to be clear: I am not against touchscreens on laptops.
      If its a free/cheap upgrade with no downsides, fine.

      But if this upgrade is Expensive, downgrades other components, or causes the Screen to be dimmer, so the Display becomes very glossy/reflective. Those are bad, not worth the trade-off. It then makes the product a "gimmick" which so many companies follow, instead of a good experience.

      There is a good reason why I've seen a lot of MS Surface owners (with flappy qwerty), eventually swap over to something else. Either a Lenovo Yoga for the sturdier base. Or fully down to the legendary ThinkPad line of laptops. It's because after a while, the "gimmick" wears off, and people just want to have something that just gets the job done with the least amount of friction. Same thing applies to laptops needing dongles, which eventually get replaced with laptops that have more ports. It's why I believe caused the Wii/WiiU to depreciate very fast, with people replacing them sooner with a PS3/PS4, rather than the other way around.

    • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 12:03

      I've never understood people's arguments against 2 in 1s in how it cannot be used on your lap. I used to use Surface Pro 3 alright on my lap (not the best thing but doable) and I guess if I felt the need to I could use my Tab S7 on my lap. Besides, do people really use the laptops on their lap that often? I thought that was not very good for men to begin with.

      I always thought the limiting factor for 2-in-1s were that they were basically worse of each category and if the combination doesn't work for you then it is waste of money for a worse product. Having a laptop in a tablet part causes issues with heat, battery, weight, and the OS feels very dodgy for a tablet. As a laptop, heat dissipation is crap, it's expensive and the CPU is normally worse.

      The reason why I've moved away from Surface Pro 3, for example, was the heat and the performance. Sp3 would have been a beefier machine, but it just wasn't good for PC applications. I was tempted to get an iPad Pro then, but Apple's OS were really really limiting if you don't like how they do things and Apple Pencil (1st Gen) was not to my satisfaction. It felt better than SP3 , but worse than SP1 for me in terms of palm rejection though I am a fan of Wacom and I may have been harsh on Apple Pencil back then.

      • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 12:31
        +1

        That's what I was getting at.
        Having one very compromised device is worse than two devices that are great at what they do. You will see when you call in a tradesmen; they do not fiddle around with those "all-in-one" gadgets. They will have a tool box with lots of tools which are specialised for their specific function. Any tradesman that's worth their salt would learn this soon, and eventually have built a toolbox full of quality tools (sometimes expensive), instead of low-quality junk.

        Back in the day (2015/Earlier), I've seen people get a 4" iPhone, 9" iPad, and 15" MacBook and it works for them. Or the equivalent Android/Windows options. Now most people just use a 6in phone and a 13in laptop, and don't worry much about a tablet in between.

        The (expensive) MS SurfaceBook is kind of an exception, since the tablet side is powerful, has a battery, but the base itself is heavy, has much bigger batter, and houses a dGPU and ports. So you kind of get the tablet experience when it is deattached without much compromises, and when attached its more like a laptop without much compromises. It's a shame this form-factor isn't more common in the 2-in-1 class, as most are just copying the lazy folio way. The 360' hinged aren't too bad, since they focus moreso on the laptop aspect than tablet aspect, except those ones that require dongles and have very reflective (mirror ?) glossy displays.

        • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 12:37

          Yeah, I agree that it's better to have two good devices normally. I think I started writing before you posted your comment below, so I think I didn't really realise that we were just talking about the same problem.

          I have a strong doubt for Surface Book, because if it has laptop CPU inside the tablet side, I do get the feeling that it'd heat up and be useless, or the fan noise would be almost unbearable (both basically happened with Surface Pro 3). Try to write on something that is 40 50 degrees and making tonnes of fan noises is uncomfortable, especially inside a lecture theatre.

          I did like the look of Surface Studio Pro, because it did look like they didn't put the processing units inside the screen. My wife basically uses her work laptop (which has 360 degree feature), like a monitor + keyboard on its front. I thought that was nice as well (heat dissipates easier and the touch screen that supports digitiser is closer to you if you need to use it).

          • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 13:10

            @iridiumstem: It being on the tablet-side means the heat isn't on your lap. And separating the dGPU to the base means effectively you have a larger surface-area (pun intended) to dissipate the heat.

            The Surface Pro, yes, they're pretty shocking. I think the SurfaceBook struts around the point of acceptable. It doesn't get hot around your lap and hand areas (it's limited to 15W TDP, and 4c/8t CPU). I'm not saying to buy the SB3, it's really expensive, and slightly outdated…. what I am saying is that the SB3 is still the ONLY option available if you want a decent tablet experience and a decent laptop experience, all in a single device. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc766aW5OZo#t=10m22s

            I hope a SB4 comes with:
            - 7nm 6c/12t Zen3 cpu
            - RDNA-2 (8CU) igpu
            - new RX-3000 based dGPU
            - USB4 port (or ThunderBolt 4)
            - HDMI out (no need for the "Proprietary MS port")
            - Speakers on the keyboard-base
            - Better placed Headphone Jack
            - Less "thick" hinge
            - Silo to slot in the Surface Pen
            - Slightly better keyboard, larger TouchPad
            - Slightly better front and rear cameras (LED light ?)
            - Easy Refurbish-able parts (SSD, RAM, Battery, Speakers, Ports)
            - Cheaper prices (tell em he's dreaming!)

            • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 13:12

              @Kangal: I wonder whether MS is also going to go down the ways of Apple, Google and Samsung to create a CPU based on ARM…
              I think cheaper SB4 might be more likely case :P

              Oh and, please for the love of God, make the fans be accessible so that it can at least be cleaned out.

              • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 13:18
                -1

                @iridiumstem: MS has butchered those prospects. It is only wishful thinking. They're incompetent when it comes to CPU Design, or even proper Software sometimes.

                And the ChromeOS/Android side of things aren't any better. If anything, they're worse. Samsung is a maybe, but again, not worth waiting for.

                Stick with Apple, and hopefully get a MacBook Pro that has a touchscreen. Or get an iPad Pro which boots into macOS. Neither of those things I expect to see for at least two years. Poop.

                Or just be content. Have a large phone that has a highly advanced ARM processor and more efficient iOS/Android system. And have a plain laptop as a workhorse which uses the traditional x86 processor, for your Linux/Windows needs.

                PS: You can usually get a good clean of the fans with just an Air-Can Sprayer.

                • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 13:29

                  @Kangal: I am hoping other manufacturers do something that Apple does… but I doubt that'd ever happen.
                  Even Samsung gave up on their custom core projects.

                  I just want someone to release a SoC that is made for tablets argh.

  • Diji1 on 02/10/2021 - 11:51
    -2

    are beneficial

    Interestingly many studies appear to show no benefits to using IT in schools. As in education outcomes don't change.

    So the conclusion appears to be that IT is not beneficial given that the billions of dollars could have been spent on something that does improve educational outcomes.

    • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 11:56

      Well that's another discussion thread but you could argue that as computers are a part of life these days, if they are NOT used in education, kids would be far worse off or left behind.

      • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 12:05

        Agreed.
        I sort of think Coding should be a mandatory course, alongside Music and Woodwork. And in Senior High School, we should have an option for IT which is actually decently advanced and helps these children get primed for the work-force.

        • deme on 02/10/2021 - 12:15

          We have for more than a decade had IT courses for high school in NSW.
          Why make coding mandatory if your logic is it'll be as useful as music and woodwork then I think that speaks volumes to the worth of the skill if it's just to expose the skill to them then I agree.

          • Kangal on 02/10/2021 - 12:26

            @deme: No, you expose them to general computing (and lite coding) at a young age. Like in Late-Primary School or in Early-Secondary school, when kids had to do extra courses like Music and Woodwork. That's just to prime them, get the interested ones more vested etc etc.

            I was saying introduce a very advanced IT work for kids in Late-Secondary school. Right next to Physics, Chemistry, and the like. There's nothing "magical" about coding, however, the world and economics are shifting towards this medium. So knowing a second language, in this case, being able to "speak robot" will prove to be very valuable coming into the workforce.

            There was IT courses at my schools, but nothing that I could quiet use as a skillset to mix with something else, and be useful today. Being able to have a quick look, diagnose a fault, or make your own program is still lacking in todays workforce with 20-year olds. I've seen mostly 30-40 year olds who have gone back, educated themselves as an extra-curricular, in order to posses these skills.

            So clearly there's a gap there we could fill, and I know some schools are doing great with this, whilst most are observably not doing too well.

            • deme on 02/10/2021 - 16:27

              @Kangal:

              second language, in this case, being able to "speak robot"

              It's not a second language though, programming is more maths than language.

              On that note Mathematics should be compulsory for high school imho.

      • deme on 02/10/2021 - 12:18

        computers are a part of life these days,

        Most people spend 8 hours a day on their phone on absolute useless shit brainwashing them to buy stuff.

    • deme on 02/10/2021 - 12:17

      I agree with Diji1 here, having a computer in every class is very different from learning IT.

      I can see the worth in learning IT. I don't see the worth in every kid having a laptop in every class. I still take paper notes as I retain far more than typing.

      • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 12:24
        +1

        Having a laptop does not necessarily just mean it is used for just typing notes down though. If it is used as a glorified pen and paper, then I also see no value in those either.

        I think there are ways technology can be implemented to teach kids. One of the most fond memory I have from high school was with a program that generated fractals with the parameters I've set, which was for an assignment.

        Modelling, simulations, bi-directional education between teachers and students etc etc, that kind of thing I think can be achieved with technology better. I don't think it was being done when I was in high school (that was aeons ago when we didn't have laptops at schools), I am hoping they've improved a lot.

        Like even something simple like Powder Toy I think can be a great gateway to get someone interested in science for example. That thing is from 2008 :P

        • deme on 02/10/2021 - 16:32

          Modelling, simulations, bi-directional education between teachers and students etc
          Like even something simple like Powder Toy

          That's the issue I have, I am not against using technology in education.
          I am against the idea of using laptops in every class as a requirement.

          I did my latter high school with a laptop including maths using latex, but for exercises I used a pen and paper and I haven't been to school in far over a decade.

          I'm not even against using "tech" in the classroom. I'm against making it a requirement, a lot of it is just moving education onto lockin systems like Google Classroom, iPads etc. which are more expensive than all the photo copying that was done before.

          TL;DR Computers fine, forcing education through computers not a good idea.

          • iridiumstem on 02/10/2021 - 16:50

            @deme: I will probably be better off mentioning that Google Classrom is something I have not experienced therefore I have little clue on what that would be like.

            That said, my degree that I am currently attending for are done online (it was designed to be delivered online, even prior to COVID-19), which does "force education through computers". One of the requirements of the course is that you need to have an access to a machine with a web-cam for exams.

            In reality it is more, the mode in which it is delivered is online, and it does allow it to be interactive somewhat. It can be repeated, slowed down, there could be many other supporting materiasl that could be supplied (videos, audios, etc etc). The other components of the classes normally involve human to human interactions, such as practical works, that worked OK for me.

            My training as a volunteer was also done mainly online, theories being delivered online and practical aspects being done in person. It was OK. Most importantly I still have access to all the materials if I need to access them. I think it was mainly because they couldn't fit all the information that they needed to teach in 3 hours sessions we had per week, but I think it worked out OK.

            This is not to say that education utilising computers is always going to be good. I've seen enough people complaining about the quality in my old university facebook group (because where I had my undergrad degree from was run by people who genuinely didn't want to teach). I think having a potential to be good needs some effort to be good. Then again, my university had shit lecturers throughout and being in person didn't help much.

            I don't know how the education in high school or at lower level is implemented with computers, so I cannot really comment on that aspect. That said, I think it would not be too different? I haven't been a high school student for over a decade too, so my understanding of it would be very very limited.

            I can see the concerns over making it a requirement, but I think there are benefits to be had if it is implemented well. But regardless, I think this has kinda digressed significantly from what the OP wanted to ask, that's for certain.

            • deme on 02/10/2021 - 17:39

              @iridiumstem:

              That said, my degree

              Yeah that's different from early high school.

              For one you are forced to go to high school in person (except for covid) where for uni you don't need to show up.

  • SBOB on 02/10/2021 - 12:38

    I bought a flex 5 Chromebook for my kids school, and she doesn't use the touch screen much for school work, but does for games and normal PC interactions.

    Though, it did suffer a major hinge failure, with the hinge coming unstuck from the lid mounting points on one side and damaged the screen (after only 7mths).

    Thankfully Lenovo replaced the screen but if you go searching you'll see it's not an irregular occurrence, so I'm expecting to see it happen again (and be non warranty repaired).

  • scotty on 02/10/2021 - 15:21
    +3

    Touch screen with pen is very useful for my kids (both in high school). They are doing most of their maths work with digitizer & pen input, as typing out all the equations and solutions would be too much work, and doing them on paper is also quite cumbersome (when you need to rub off some parts, share the work with teacher etc).

    One of my kids also loves drawing and uses Photoshop/Illustrator with pen often.

  • Cheapo Moose on 02/10/2021 - 15:28
    +3

    Well I had a look at one in the flesh and the screen wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Sure, it could be brighter but it's definitely sufficient for it's purpose.

    I ended up grabbing the IdeaPad Flex.

    Thanks for the input everyone.

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