I can't go into much details other than basically tenants have been requesting a lot of repairs through our agent. One issue that keeps coming up that we've repaired before was attended to by agent/tenant and was quoted an exorbitant replacement. I posted the issue on a tradie site and a lot of people advised that it could just be repaired (1/8th of cost). I then contacted a tradie who visited the site and they've found no issues and basically warned me that they were behaving 'very off' towards him. Just want to discuss my options or if I'm being overly paranoid.
Any (Rental) Property Managers on here? Think tenants are being dodgy
MeesusEff on 25/08/2021 - 20:33
Comments
I can't prove it yet that is the gut feeling I'm having. Or that they are also trying to pull one over the agent as well.
Your responsibility is to fix up any issues with the property. But if you come up with a solution yourself and the agent keeps declining it by insisting on their solution, it is pretty obvious. It is extremely difficult to prove kickbacks without access to their personal communication devices or emails. There might not even be an audit trail as the "supplier" could be transferring the money to a 3rd party account (like the agent's MIL). So if there are signs, it is probable.
Why does the agent even need the 'tenant' onboard to create fake repairs unless the LL talks directly with them.
Tenant needs to make complaint to agent about "fault". That's how you trigger a work order. Without the initial complaint, the agent has no paper trail that a work order was ever required.
And the quote usually comes from the agent. Pretty rare a tenant would suggest a solution. If it came from the tenant, the agent should be questioning why.
So if there was no fault, and an expensive quote exist. The risk of collaborating is high. This is just how i read the situation as is, but with more information it could be different.
Tenant needs to make complaint to agent about "fault". That's how you trigger a work order. Without the initial complaint, the agent has no paper trail that a work order was ever required.
My point was the agent could just create a 'complaint' aka work order without the tenant input at all. Send the 'quote' for repair to the LL, pocket the money. As rarely does the LL talk directly to the tenant, so none would be the wiser.
So yeah, the tenant doesn't even need to be part of this.
But what I really think is happening is the OP has a dump and it just needs lots of repair so is having a cry about it blaming the agent for trying to rip him off.
Are agent trades always more costly than going direct? Of course, but that is part of the convenience factor of having the agent magically 'fix' the issue instead of you doing it yourself.
@JimmyF: Lol house is definitely not a dump. 20 years old in fair condition, we used to live in it and wouldn't mind going back to it if my parents didn't buy the house we are in.
Not sure if you read my post properly but I found tradies to go in and repair the issue and they told me there wasnt any. 2 times on 2 separate issues.
Not sure if you read my post properly but I found tradies to go in and repair the issue and they told me there wasnt any. 2 times on 2 separate issues.
Well that isn't the agents fault. If the tenant calls up and says there is a fault, the agent trusts them. They don't go and check for themselves.
So if you are getting tradies saying no fault found, you are legally able to bill the tenant then for that service request.
Once you do this a few times, these requests normally disappear.
@JimmyF: I mean technically you can forge a document if the agent is ballsy enough. But standard practice is proof of source which is an email from an email address.
OP has PM-ed me and gave a bit more context. I feel it is a mix of both. The place might need abit of work, the tenants are taking advantage of it as they work in the RE industry (knowing all the loopholes) and potentially friends with the agent.
I mean technically you can forge a document if the agent is ballsy enough
Well if you are going to 'forge' a work order, what is less risky, forging one the tenant doesn't know about or talking to the tenant and saying hey, put in a few false work orders and I'll give you a kick back ;)
Anyhow from the OP reply above, seems like the tenant is a whiner and just complaining, nothing to do with the agent. The LL has been paying bills for no fault found requests, so fool on them for that, so the tenant will keep complaining until the LL pushes back on the no fault found requests.
@JimmyF: Tradies didn't charge me when they didn't find a fault, so lucky me (or them) but I would have definitely passed them the bill. But in the latest situation, agents tradie quoted a replacement after inspection yet when I got someone in to repair at 1/8th of the cost, they told me there wasnt any problem to begin with after multiple testings in front of tenant. Didn't charge me so I obviously trust their word against the 1st one.
Tradies didn't charge me when they didn't find a fault, so lucky me (or them) but I would have definitely passed them the bill
Very lucky….. Rare for a tradie to come out and NOT charge
But in the latest situation, agents tradie quoted a replacement after inspection yet when I got someone in to repair at 1/8th of the cost
Quotes vary etc, but most likely the costly quote didn't want the job, so in this case you normally quote high. If you get the job then great its a cash cow, if you don't, then no loss. Have you gotten any other quotes for the same work, aka replacing the broken widget whatever it is.
they told me there wasnt any problem to begin with after multiple testings in front of tenant and didn't charge me so I obviously trust their word against the 1st one.
So how did they quote 1/8 of the price if they couldn't find a fault to fix?
I posted the issue on a tradie site and a lot of people advised that it could just be repaired (1/8th of cost).
Oh wait so they didn't quote you 1/8 of the price, you trusted strangers on the internet who haven't seen the job to give you a repair cost.
One issue that keeps coming up that we've repaired before was attended to by agent/tenant and was quoted an exorbitant replacement.
Honestly you keep saying this fault keeps coming up but no fault found. So could also be a intermittent fault. What is this fault that keeps appearing that can't be found? I mean you have posted it elsewhere, so why not here.
But honestly, I'm not seeing any plan here of the 'agent' arranging fake jobs to get money out of you. As the trades are finding no fault and not even charging you!?
@JimmyF: Yeah I think there's more to the story, or the issue is intermittent. I've had the same issue but as a tenant myself - shower head leaking but when the REA inspected it (we reported it when they scheduled an inspection) they couldn't 'see" the leak (the REA wasn't a pr*ck about it, though). It was definitely still there when we logged it again lol plumber came out and agreed, shower head was faulty.
they told me there wasnt any problem to begin with after multiple testings in front of tenant
What appliance/equipment was being tested (or was deemed to be faulty by your "dodgy" tenants)? Could you provide some specifics, please.
Didn't charge me so I obviously trust their word against the 1st one.
I find this statement of yours extremely hard to believe (unless you are really good mates with the trades person).
Cannot possibly comment without specifics….. is the issue lack of drinking water? a dripping tap? flooding from rains? aircon not working? unpleasant wallpaper? or a bit of a weird smell……
Urgh don't get me started on property managers and dodgy tradies. Had a previous property manager recommend a tradie to do the odd jobs (leaking taps that sort of thing) and his prices were double of what they should have been. Turns out one of the other property managers was married to the guy :/ The property manager got one invoice and I got another ;)
Your situation certainly sounds a bit suss. Who is suggesting the person quoting a crazy amount. Tenant or property manager?
There's no loyalty for property managers. Just switch, OP.
(I miss Sean Lock….)
OP just PM'd me the context. Red flag, red flag, RED FLAG!!!!. Yeah after reading the situation I'd be wanting to boot the tenants out and the property manager. They're definitely in bed together so to speak.
I only discovered Sean a month ago. So sad because his deadpan is hilarious.
that's so unlucky! You gotta catch up on all his 8 out of 10 cats, and 8 out of 10 cats does countdown (my personal favourite). RIP an absolute legend
The property manager got one invoice and I got another ;)
Well, how did you uncover this at the end?
Everyone knows property managers get commission. However how I found out in this case was…. dodgy.
First things first, tell the agent to charge the callout fee to the tenant. If they push back, something is suss.
Fortunately the tradies I found seem honest and didn't charge me when they didn't find an issue. Feel shit for wasting their time as well.
Pretend to be the tradie yourself next time and dig in with some questions.
YOU as the owner need to see legitimate invoice or quotes before any money should be out laid… If the agent does any he can pay himself do not pay
It's normal to get three quotes..
No it's not. Good luck even getting three tradies in to quote. I generally get the property manager to arrange a quote and if I am not happy I will organise my own quote but getting three every time is not reasonable, not any more.
In Victoria, as part of your leasing authority, you can nominate specific amounts that require authorisation before proceeding. You can generally set this to the minimum amount and nominate any tradesman.
Tenant: The tap is squeeky
Me: Roll Eyes I'll pass this to the agent and landlord
Tenant: Will it be fixed soon?
Me: I'll need to get approval with a cough cough quote (if you get stuck)I just happen to have entity just for this use. Just look the part with tradie PPE, no questions asked. If we have the time and parts we will often complete routine check on house and address small maintenance issues while there.
I feel your pain because something similar thing happened to me. Month after month something required urgent fixing; garage door, heating/cooling system, plumbing, broken blinds/curtains… very irritating and I thought to myself, is the tenant and the agent colluding?!
I couldn't provide it and l've been too busy to chase it up…and they haven't complained about anything breaking down in a while so maybe not… but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Sounds like you need to do some more maintenance on your house if all those things are breaking.
It also could be that the tenant had said they would take the property on the condition that XYZ were fixed, and the property manager is drip feeding it to you.
Nah man, nothing ever breaks when it's your house. When you rent it out, things magically break all the time.
This is true, I didn't have a single problem when I was living in that house before they moved in.
It's hard to understand what's happening without knowing exactly what are the alleged problems, and if they exist, and what kind of repairs are done, if any.
For example, I was a tenant some time ago and there was a leak in/on the kitchen's roof. Every rainy day I had to take photos, leave a bucket there, and contact the agent. They'd send someone to check and repair, usually the same guy, but the problem was never solved. After five visits, the guy told me he had been called to repair the roof several times in the previous years, and that the solution was to replace the roof but the owner didn't want to spend the money, so this guy was there every two weeks or so to apply more and more silicone and stuff, without solving the problem.
I shared part of the horrible story here, in 2019.
Many other issues with the house (rats, mould, stuck windows, dysfunctional hot water). It was a nightmare… The handyman sent by the real estate was there at least once a month, sometimes every week. It was an old house that had been partially renovated (kitchen and one bathroom) but apparently the renovation and repairs hadn't been performed by professionals, so there was leak, mould, and a lot of things falling apart. The agent was so sick that she showed me emails just to prove that she was asking for the repairs, including for part of the roof to be replaced as per advice from three roof specialists, but the owner's answer was always "no!".
What I am saying is that some owners are evil, some agents are not great, and tenants can also be pretty bad. Therefore, it's hard to know what is happening at your place.
You have one example of something that could have been repaired (1/8th of the cost) but I wonder… Could that just be repaired? Did the tradies on the website understand what the problem was?
This was one example but what are all the other issues being reported all the time?
Based on my experience as a tenant in Australia, it's hard to side with owners, but I am sure there are dodgy tenants and owners around.
Are you suggesting the tenant and agent are collaborating to get kickbacks through fake repair orders?
If so then change the agent to a more reputable one.