Research + Discussion About Tools & ' Hardware Ecosystems ' (eg. Dewalt, Blue Bosch, Ryobi, Ozito, etc.)

• 

  Euphemistic on 15/08/2021 - 06:36

  +1

  Not sure a heat gun is going to be much chop in cordless. By its nature heat guns use a lot of power so cordless might not be worth it.

  I have Ryobi gear and it works well and hasn’t let me down. The only thing I don’t really like about it is that it is Bunnings exclusive.

  IMO buying trade quality for home use doesn’t really make a lot of sense, except if you buy second hand.

  • 

    whyisave on 15/08/2021 - 06:38

    Understood about the heat gun.

    As for 'trade quality', well, sometimes I get good 2nd hand deal (or have vouchers to spend),
    then I can jump into it, but I just didn't want to if I find out later that learning about batteries or battery management,
    is another minefield altogether.

    Does it matter on the Ryobi brand,
    eg. is there a certain Ryobi colour that is of 'higher quality', etc. ?
    (like Bosch blue)

    • 

      Euphemistic on 15/08/2021 - 13:01

      All new Ryobi is green, has been for years. About the only ‘premium’ models are brushless versions.

• 

  Presence on 15/08/2021 - 07:01

  +1

  I have Bosch Blue which are some of the best tools but they are too expensive for anything other than drills. If I want a jigsaw, circular saw or grinder I am looking $200 just for the skin - and almost never on sale! Other brands are half that. Especially since you're a DIYer and doing different things every time (as opposed to a mechanic) I'd look at Ryobi one+

  • 

    apsilon on 15/08/2021 - 08:13

    +1

    Conversely I have some Bosch Blue and find them for the most part to be average at best. The drill has far too much run out but is within their spec so they won't do anything about it. The driver is OK but a bit low on the torque compared to the competition. Few other little things I have are acceptable but no better than the same style product from their competitors. The only one I'm actually reasonably happy with is the impact wrench and if it weren't for that I'd get rid of the whole line.I certainly won't buy any more and replace them with other brands if/when they die.

    FWIW I also have Dewalt, Milwaukee, Festool and Ryobi and have in the past had Panasonic, Makita and Ozito along with some no longer available stuff like Black and Decker, GMC and various generic no names so I think I've had some wide experience.

    I do agree for the DIYer Ryobi One is very hard to beat. Huge range of options and I believe market leading warranty. They're not without fault though. eg they'e maintained backwards compatibility with their battery packs which means they work right back to their old blue tools but it also limits the form factor of the tool. I've had a situation where I couldn't drill some required holes with their right angle drill because the battery wouldn't fit in the space available. The Milwaukee version did it fine. As mentioned in the other recent thread IMO their ratchet is next to useless as it has so little torque, less than competitors 12v tool so do consider what you need and don't be afraid to get the right tool for a job rather than blindly sticking with a single brand.

    As a DIY you should also consider your use case. ie do you need a cordless tool? In some cases like a drill or driver I'd say certainly yes as there'll be plenty of situations where you need to take the tool to the "work site" so it's much more convenient. On the other hand there'll be lots of cases where you're set up to do something in a set spot like a shed or garage and IMO cordless is less important and corded tools are often more powerful and cheaper. Things like a circular saw , compound mitre saw and plunge router for example you're more like to work on a piece before taking it to where it's to be installed.

• 

  fredhoon on 15/08/2021 - 07:10

  +1

  Makita, Milwaukee, Hilti, Bosh Blue if you want good quality, high spec trade level tools and a price tag to match.

  Personally I have a fleet of Ozito Red for home duties as they are cheap have a good warranty and don't get much use. I've only killed a recip saw and it was replaced without hassle. Ryobi is much the same, a little more expensive than Ozito but the specs are usually a little higher.

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 02:46

    So, you say Ryobi > Ozito in terms of durability & feature-set ?

    Are there different categories of Ryobi or Ozito (eg. Ozito Red) that you would vouch for?
    How was the experience with the batteries?

    Are you OK with Ryobi being a Bunnings-only brand ?

    • 

      bio on 17/08/2021 - 10:23

      Ryobi is not a Bunnings-only brand. In Australia it is exclusively sold by Bunnings but it's a worldwide brand. Ozito is a Bunnings-only brand.

      And yes, Ryobi is better than Ozito, but it's also more expensive. I would think of it being somewhere between premium brands (Makita, Milwaukee, maybe DeWalt) and the cheapest brands (Ozito, ALDI).

      It really comes down to your budget and time. I personally use Makita (for DIY stuff like yourself, not a tradie either) but I am patient and only buy something when there is a very good deal. I can easily say that I spent Ozito-levels of money or less for my Makita brushless tool set. However, it took longer to buy everything I need.

      The rule of thumb is to never buy a single tool (skin), or a single battery/charger. Kits are heavily discounted. I tend to buy kits with tools I need and flog the ones I don't need on FB Market/Gumtree. I usually end up having the tool or the battery for free or for a minimal cost.

• 

  jclloyd on 15/08/2021 - 07:25

  +1

  I’m going to throw my recommendation behind DeWalt for you for the following reasons:
  - Very hard working, trade quality tools
  - Good range/variety of tools (they do have a heat gun but may have to source it online through amazon or other via US
  - Technically less variety than Makita but Makita’s range is made of of making 5-10 versions of the same thing
  - Excellent ergonomics
  - Flexvolt batteries (gives you 18 or 54v power in one battery)
  - Increasing range of Flexvolt Advantage tools including in a Drill (DCD-999)
  - Sold in almost every hardware store which means there is price competition and sales (big advantage over a Bunnings only brand)

  I could probably list more pros for you but that’s likely enough.

  I use my tools much as you have described as well (not a tradie) and I would still go for trade quality every time.
  Ryobi is absolutely fine and does a good job for most things, is cheap and Bunnings replacement warranty is handy but when using the tools you can very much feel the difference when you are doing tougher work.

  If you’re only ever going to do light work eg. indoor jobs into gyprock and stud or building small furniture, than go with something lighter and cheaper.

  If you’re likely to have more variety and at some point do some yeahier stuff with batten/bugle screws, building structures or landscaping (even in the future) than buy once and spend more.

  Regarding price:
  I have bought all of my Dewalt tools on sale for prices less than most cheap brands including Ryobi, it takes a bit of patience and hunting but is always worth it.
  I get Bunnings to price match + 10% less whenever I can and that adds to the discount
  Amazon sells US items frequently at great prices (I got the DCD-999 for $197.00 AUD free shipping vs $379 local market) it’s a us model so says 20v but that’s same as 18v here and works great)

  Warranty- 3yrs is fine with me and if it’s going to break from fault or excessive use it will do so in that time. More is generally marketing because they know it will last. Tools from Amazon US might not carry a warranty but for the price difference it’s generally still worth it and they last.

  Other brands:
  Lots of other good brands but this is what I have, 2 tradie friends of mine (sparky and a bulidler) have full Milwaukee ecosystems and both wish they had gone Dewalt

  Last Point:
  Don’t get lost in the “it’s American BS” Australia doesn’t make tools.

  Hope that helps

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 02:36

    Thank you for the DeWalt 'thumbs up' :-D

    I, too, will try some savvy ways at buying, so either Amazon or Gumtree,…wherever i get a decent deal.

    what I needed tips on for DeWalt is about their batteries.
    There is various voltages, and they have their own 'branding' - Flexvolt,
    but I have trouble understanding what is the differences, other than voltage/battery capacity.

    Is there a different clicking mechanism ?
    Should I stay away from generic batteries + adapters ?

    With DeWalt, I'm attracted to their drills,
    and that's why I had my sights set on the brushless hammer-drill DCD-996 .

• 

  bloom on 15/08/2021 - 07:59

  +1

  Save up to buy a 9+ tool kit
  Buying a drill and driver kit and adding more later you pay a huge premium

  I got the AEG 5pc and am up to 10 tools with regret I didn’t just get a bigger set on day one

  • 

    jclloyd on 15/08/2021 - 09:28

    +3

    Good advice but actually look at what model numbers are included in the kit you buy (whatever the brand)
    Companies will often put together a mix of 1 high quality tool and several lower end models in these kits. They’re not ALWAYS the great deals they seem like.

    Do your research rather than getting impressed by the numbers.

  • 

    Euphemistic on 15/08/2021 - 13:04

    +1

    Alternatively, start with basics you will definitely use and purchase second hand as you find them. I’ve got probably 15 skins and have got at least half second hand.

    • 

      whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 02:39

      Exactly :-D

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 02:38

    Yes, I intended to do that,
    find a kit with what the components that I'm after,
    because I didn't want to buy piece-by-piece, as there's a "premium" to that.

    However, from the reply from jclloyd (above),
    I was going to pay attention to the models too because I know package deals can sometimes have a mix of lower-end models thrown in.

    What are your impressions of AEG ?
    Cordless? Battery management? Warranty?

• 

  timthetoolman on 15/08/2021 - 08:40

  +2

  I have Milwaukee which I've had a fair bit of trouble with, wouldn't recommend them although they do have a very good range.

  If I had my time again I'd go dewalt, well priced and seem to be pretty tough

• 

  tightrump on 15/08/2021 - 08:51

  +1

  I am not a tradie, but have played with several brands, mainly drills and impact drivers, but not Dewalt yet.
  I tried Milwaukee after Bosch blue and Metabo… I was almost immediately anti-Milwaukee because the drill had pretty bad Chuck runout, and its spindle thread was uncommon, limiting replacement chuck options. Also, I found their battery retention design quite loose, and their brushless motors seem very noisy. To me, they seem over hyped.
  The Metabo drill is smooth and precise, and fast but I noticed their tools to have a fair amount of 'lag' in trigger response. If you like to blip the throttle, then Metabo may not be for you.
  I liked the Bosch blue drill (GSB 18 VE EC, similar to the newer 85C) for lots of clutch settings, auto stop on clutch slip, and kickback protection. I regret selling it.
  The Makita DHP481 feels nice, but haven't had a chance to use it much yet. I am not sure why their 18V batteries stop at 6Ah when other brands have a lot more battery options.
  I have only eyed the DCD996. Personally, I hesitated because it's a big unit and sometimes you need to get into tight spaces. The middle gear ratio sounds like a good speed/torque balance though.
  Just my personal impressions.

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 02:42

    For your Bosch Blue, did you have issues with the battery,
    or find interoperability with the models fine ?
    ( are there generic branded batteries for Bosch Blue, or
    do you advice against generic batteries altogether? )

    DCD996 is a good balance of speed + torque, with the hammer action.
    I thought that if it's a trouble getting into 'tight spaces',
    then in those instances, I may not actually need all that speed + torque ?

    For that, I guess I can look at drill with a more compact profile :-)

    • 

      tightrump on 16/08/2021 - 16:09

      If you're eyeing generic batteries, I would suggest you look at genuine DIY class stuff like Ryobi, instead of hobbling trade quality gear with non-genuine batteries.
      I have not personally used generic batteries, because I would not trust their over-current, over-temperature, nor cell over/under voltage protection. Not worth the risk IMHO.

• 

  dragong87 on 15/08/2021 - 10:07

  +1

  Is 2 battery systems an option? I was in similar situation a little while ago and went down the 18V Makita Path starting with drill and impact driver because they'll be used the most frequently.
  If i don't think I'll use the skin often I'll get the Ozito and if i use it enough and it fails i'll upgrade to the Makita.

• 

  Cheeper on 15/08/2021 - 11:12

  +2

  "The tools will be for odd repair jobs and tending to some small hobbies."
  You dont need "top of the line" tools for that. Just avoid the junk shop specials and you will be fine. Later on if you start to get into major projects then go for the professional tool range.

  .Cordless vs corded.
  If you use a cordless device only once every few months be prepared to plan ahead and allow a couple of hours to charge it up first. Also some power tool batteries dont fare well when left to go flat for months at a time. It only takes a minute to roll out an extension lead and you are right to go with a corded unit. Definitely the way to go with saws, planers, angle grinders and even some drills.

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 00:30

    Thanks for replying.

    The 'odd jobs' have been the need to drive screws, into very tough wood.
    I have had to do wooden fence repairs, and these are once every 5 years,
    but wished I had a good cordless drill.

    There are also other times, where I drilled into concrete,
    and I wished I had a good brushless drill with good torque.

    None of these jobs are frequent,
    but I end up spending time, worrying about electrical cords,
    carrying a toolbox with many components…than having a good portable tool that is dependable.

    PS:
    Regarding the 'cordless vs corded', I got your point.
    I didn't know about batteries going flat & needed regular charge (until I read some other threads here).

    • 

      Euphemistic on 16/08/2021 - 07:09

      I didn't know about batteries going flat & needed regular charge (until I read some other threads here).

      Lithium batteries are a lot better at holding charge than old school Ni-Cad. But it’s true, using them is better than sitting there doing nothing. Consider getting a cordless line trimmer or similar that you’ll use a bit more often to keep batteries in good condition.

      • 

        whyisave on 18/08/2021 - 02:59

        Excellent idea about the line trimmer !
        Thank you.

    • 

      lgacb08 on 16/08/2021 - 21:13

      by your description, I think it's more of the issue choosing the right tool for the job than the brand itself.
      * Drill into wood: not sure if you're refering to the drill or impact driver, if it's a drill then you'll picking the wrong tool. And if it's an impact driver and you still had issue then you'd need to check if the screw is not the common philips head type, and do you have clamp? Any impact driver should be able to fix into fence, even if it's red gum, the screw should break because the driver reach its limit.
      * Drill into concrete: you'll need an sds rotary drill, power or battery will do, these type of job and the occasion of drilling something like 3cm spade drill bit into timber will require a more robust tools and specific drill bits before you end up damaging the bits half way.
      Regardless of system you choose you'll still end up with some odd job that require a power or something higher up but you need to look at your regular need before justify such purchase.

      • 

        whyisave on 18/08/2021 - 02:58

        My dad already has an old corded Black & Decker, so for any heavy drilling, we use that.

        So, the cordless drill was to complement that drill (and that old drill is heavy too !)

        The idea is that, we end up sharing tools and I just wanted to get something,
        that will be reliable going into the future.
        ( I'll end up looking after his tools anyway , and other junk from the garden shed, which I'm not so interested in, haha)

        Having good tools, will only motivate us to be more hands on,…and during lockdown.

      • 

        Euphemistic on 18/08/2021 - 06:09

        For drilling holes into wood you need a drill. An impact driver is for driving screws. For screwing ‘very tough wood’ you probably need to ore-drill holes so you don’t break screws with the impact driver.

        For concrete you don’t necessarily need an SDS drill. Just need a hammer drill and masonry bits. An SDS drill might be slightly better, but not essential if your drill has hammer function. Does it really matter if an occasional hole into concrete takes an extra 30seconds?

        Brushless isn’t essential either, just a good cordless drill. Eg comparing non brushless ozito to Ryobi and makita and the makita has lots more torque. The ozito want good at all, while the Ryobi was acceptable.

• 

  Euphemistic on 15/08/2021 - 13:05

  +1

  Perhaps consider a battery system that has adaptors available for Ryobi or Ozito. That way you can get ‘better’ battery and tools for what you use a lot, and the cheaper versions for occasional use.

  • 

    whyisave on 16/08/2021 - 00:32

    Do you know more about this,
    eg. are there generic batteries, but different adapters make it suitable for different brands ?

    In that case, buying one battery, but different adapters can make it work for the different brands,
    eg. Ryobi saw or Ozito drill.

    • 

      Euphemistic on 16/08/2021 - 07:12

      +1

      Have a look online. I’ve seen them from time to time on eBay, people 3D print them. Ryobi batteries are difficult to adapt to others because of the shape (large bit stuck on top), but there are adaptors for eg Makita batt to Ryobi tools. Many batteries are fairly rectangular and aren’t hard to get an adaptor.

      Personally I wouldn’t get too many different brands, but if I had my time again I’d consider a premium brand (Makita, Dewalt etc) with an adaptor for Ryobi skins.

• 

  bradl822 on 16/08/2021 - 20:04

  +1

  I personally use and always have used Makita. Overall I'm happy however the chuck quality has definitely reduced since it's been made in china.

  I have bought a few second hand however I would only buy what I can try first. I would be careful buying a drill second hand. For example I have a drill (it's probably 6 years old, and got a smashing) which the second gear slips in. It only did it after a bit of use each time. If you purchased you wouldn't know until it was too late.
  I have another drill which I use when ever in drilling into tiles, this has destroyed the chuck. The chuck has rusted up, now I can clean it with a steel brush head and lubrication but it practically goes crap again the next day.

  Both of these issues I don't you would pick up on buying second hand, I know I wouldn't.

  Most other tools I would probably buy second hand.

  Before anyone judges Makita; they get used 5 days a week with constant use nearly all day.

• 

  MisterMo on 17/08/2021 - 10:51

  +1

  I would say if you are looking for decent, well priced at home tools then you cant go wrong with Ryobi. I used to use Dewalt when I worked on site because they are tough as old boots and can take some abuse. But as an at home diyer/hobbyist Ryobi are great. I have about 20 Ryobi One+ hand tools and I would buy all of them again , as mentioned above some are power thirsty so you need to invest in the 5 or 6ah batteries.

  Ryobi is manufactured by the same company than manufacture Milwaukee tools as well as a tonne of other household brands like Dirt Devil, Hoover and VAX so whilst its the entry level power tool brand in their portfolio they come from good stead.

  From my experience I can provide the following advice
  Ryobi tablesaw - don't waste your money on that, the fence system is useless I replaced it with a Makita
  Ryobi Mitre saw - OK but one of only 2 tools I have from Ryobi I wouldn't buy again
  If you buy any Ryobi brand saws just throw the blade away and get decent one from the off

  • 

    whyisave on 18/08/2021 - 02:54

    Thanks for your reply.

    So, you're OK with Ryobi being Bunnings-only ?

    And you recommend their Ryobi One+ sub-brand?
    ( good value for money? )

    • 

      MisterMo on 24/08/2021 - 11:00

      +1

      Sorry I'm just seeing this - I have no issue with Ryobi being Bunnings only, in fact I think it makes their warranty so easy, I have had to return a ryobi pressure washer to bunnings and they just straight swapped it for a new in box unit. Definitely easier than having to arrange a return or repair with the manufacturer.

      I have stuck with the one+ just because I invested early in decent batteries it made sense. I bought 5ah batteries to begin with and haven't yet found a tool that doesn't do what it should with it. Again I'm just DIYer mainly use these for woodworking and mechanical work.

      I'd say once you have the batteries the tool skins are really good value for money

      • 

        Euphemistic on 24/08/2021 - 11:35

        +1

        I have no issue with Ryobi being Bunnings only

        The only problem with Ryobi being a Bunnings only brand is that there is no competition on price. The only way you get a cheap deal is if you get lucky enough that your local is running out stock of a particular model.

• 

  pippohippo on 20/08/2021 - 12:13

  +1

  I'm a DIYer - making home furniture for family and random things from cut-offs.

  I went with Ryobi because it's quite affordable. I went with the drill and impact driver (with 2x 2.5ah battery) kit. I will be adding to it slowly like a 5ah battery, brad nailer, etc. Also got a ryobi shopvac

  I went with AEG for corded tools - mitre saw, circular saw, jigsaw and orbital sander. I figured I'm only working at home at the workbench, I didn't really need cordless and the reliability of just plugging the cord in made more sense to me. AEG and Ryobi are also owned by the same parent company hence mainly see it in bunnings, and a lower price point.

  I am planning to add a makita corded plunge router as well.

  I do use ozito for items i don't use heavily or they were on a massive discount (blower and angle grinder).

  I got black & decker hammer drill for $20 at SCA…used once but worth it drilling into brick and probably has a few more uses before it becomes landfill though…

  If I had the money or become more serious I'd probably get dewalt or milwaukee - which is also why I went with corded for most tools. Cheaper and not trapped in the ryobi eco system

  • 

    whyisave on 20/08/2021 - 23:10

    Thanks for your reply.

    Which Ryobi sub-brand did you get ?

    PS:
    It's a very practical idea, to think of corded tools,
    when you have a dedicated workbench / workshop area.

    My current situation, I don't have that luxury nor do my parents.
    But I i will think about this more, and divide the tools between corded and cordless then,
    eg. drills - cordless but the others which require more power to be corded.

    Let's see, as I'm still researching it all, and I need to look at the batteries too, eg. the different voltages.

    So far, everyone's replies here have been great here.

    • 

      pippohippo on 20/08/2021 - 23:43

      +1

      AEG is owned by the same parent company as Ryobi. My understanding is Milkwaukee is the Tradies tool, Ryobi is the DIYer , and AEG is the in between.

      drill driver and impact definitely go cordless - I don't think brand matters too much for DIYer since you're not pushing the motor on a daily basis, mostly weekends…

      corded tools are much cheaper than the equivalent (maybe weaker cordless tool). Definitely plan for the future. if you are to move out, get a double garage or build a dedicated workshop because your car and other storage items will thank you.
      If you don't have much space and require cordless then invest in a larger battery and quick charger. I have read that Ryobi is more affordable but the tradies brand does hold the charge better and gives out more oomf (hence a higher price).

      I'd get a ryobi as a minimum (not ozito, aldi, xu1 unless it's a limited use item or ridiculously cheap) otherwise you're going to have to repeat this thread. Although some review on the ozito corded tools suggest the items are a good buy.

      Feel free to PM with any questions in the future

• 

  bargone on 25/08/2021 - 11:21

  +1

  If you can be bothered waiting til black Friday dewalt usually have a deal.

  I picked up a impact driver (dcd787) and hammer drill (dcd796) came with a hard case, 2 x 4ah batteries and a free 5 ah battery.

  Sold the DCD787 for $160 and bought a dcd996 for $170. Bit of a hassle but buying skin only and getting rid of the tools from packages you don't want is an option huge resell market for dewalt skin only, heaps of people buy kits for tax and sell what they don't need and essentially are getting tools for free while other people benefit too. Win win

  • 

    whyisave on 25/08/2021 - 18:24

    thanks for replying.

    do you mean DeWalt's Black Friday sale in U.S. or AU ?
    ( or on Amazon? )

    PS:
    Yes, I know about that people offloading specific equipments from kits for tax ;-)

    PPS:
    how do you like your DCD996 ?

• 

  bargone on 25/08/2021 - 20:42

  +1

  mine was AU im sure they do US sales too.

  the 996 is more power than I will ever need a solid piece of equipment.

  After some research I found the 996, 998 and 999 are practically the same drill the only difference is there UWO rating being about 200w difference (800, 1000, 1200 UWO roughly) and has more to do with the way they use different types of batteries(power advantage vs flex volt). The 998 actually beating out the 999 in almost every scenario althought the 998 doesnt seem to be available in Australia and was apparently just a marketing thing so dewalt could sell exclusive in different hardware stores in the US..

  It was cheaper than purchasing the top range ryobi in my scenario and more powerful so I cant complain.