Is The Final Interview The Time to Negotiate Salary or Do I Wait Once The Job Is Offered? Also How Much to Negotiate from Base?

Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 18:35
Last edited 25/07/2021 - 18:36

Long story short, my current pay isn't the best so I started looking, at the moment I get around $50k pa with everything included. However I often work around 42 - 45 hours on average pw and some week can be even be as high as 48 hours. Not very good pay consider the hours I been putting in so I started looking.

Went for a new job application and so far I have done:

1 Online Theory
1 Phone Interview
1 Zoom Interview

They said they will come back to me on the final interview which is face to face in 2 weeks.

This new job is also salary, the perks are:

$53500pa + Super + Commission (Around $2000 pa estimated) + if I stay with them I get $2500 yearly bonus from the anniversary of employment. Which on paper looks pretty good compared to the current job. Basically its $3500 + $2000 + $2500 = $8000 more with less time worked.

My question is if I do indeed pass the final interview, when is a good time to start a bit of salary negotiation? At the end of the final interview or at the time when they offered me a job after the final interview? Either way what's the offer I should put in if they are open to negotiations? At the moment they didn't deny or agree to open negotiations or not.

Thanks many

Education & Work

Comments

  • brendanm on 25/07/2021 - 18:39
    +15

    Holy crap, you are making $50k a year and putting $10k into crypto? Goodness. Also looking to buy a $40k car new?

    • onetwothreefour on 25/07/2021 - 19:02
      +2

      $10k into crypto

      Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that, please don't forget to let us know how this goes OP!

      • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:35

        $10k not even close yet as I been putting in a few hundred only each few weeks, total invest is $4000 so far as I have adjusted my portfolio a bit recently, down to around $1100 at the moment. Will still be putting in little by little.

    • bobbified on 25/07/2021 - 19:30
      +8

      That $50k is nothing compared to everyone else's $300k+ annual salaries over here. lol

      • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:48

        Who is earning $300k in here??????

        Thats crazy amount of money PA…………..

        • Hybroid on 25/07/2021 - 19:55

          Pretty common in Engineering at the moment. High demand, low supply of skilled experienced workers.

        • bobbified on 25/07/2021 - 19:55
          +7

          That's what lots here seem to "claim" when asked about their salary….

          • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 22:22
            +1

            @bobbified: If thats true then well done to them, $300k……wow! I be all over the moon if I can get to $75k pa

            • bobbified on 25/07/2021 - 22:41
              +11

              @Aerith-Waifu:

              I be all over the moon if I can get to $75k pa

              Everyone says that and then when they get there, their spending habits change real quick and they suddenly think they'll be more happy with that "little extra".

              People on more than double that still wish they could get more. It's human nature really… there's no such thing as "enough" money. haha.

              • lew380 on 26/07/2021 - 08:16
                +7

                @bobbified: Yea I started on 100k and I thought that was excessively good money at the time, now I couldn't imagine living off that. But a mortgage and family eats up quite a chunk in the end. There was a time when 35k part time was more than enough for me without a mortgage or responsibility. The trick is to stop buying garbage you don't need. Less time dreaming about things and more time spent with people that matter to you. Still working on this mindset BTW haha

                • bobbified on 26/07/2021 - 10:07

                  @lew380:

                  The trick is to stop buying garbage you don't need.

                  Avoiding buying garbage is probably the easy one. The one I think is difficult is someone's taste in more premium things. Especially if that "expensive taste" has developed over time.

                  Admittedly, I'm guilty of this! lol. I don't buy a lot of junk, but when I buy stuff, in my mind, I tend to automatically go "high-end" straightaway. Especially things in the home, etc. (Lots of people probably won't believe this, but it's got nothing to do with being a snob or showing off or anything).

                • cheapisgood on 26/07/2021 - 15:46

                  @lew380: I am sure most can live with $100k a year if you live modestly. No need to buy the latest and greatest technology all the time.

      • Jimb000 on 26/07/2021 - 07:52
        +4

        you’re only on $300k?

        • bobbified on 26/07/2021 - 10:10

          you’re only on $300k?

          Nah.. divide $300K by 2… and then divide by another 2… and that's about me! :P

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:36

      I have a side income also which bring in some good money sometimes:)

      • brendanm on 25/07/2021 - 19:55

        God I hope so. Even $4k in crypto, that's now worth $1k, is nuts on that salary in my opinion.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 22:43

          Honestly speaking, I did not expect to drop $3000 or 75% in a number of months……………amazing how fast crypto drops tbh……

          • brendanm on 25/07/2021 - 22:58

            @Aerith-Waifu: Any money I've put in crypto, I've expected to lose 100% of, anything else is a bonus. Anyone not thinking this way doesn't have very good risk management.

            • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 02:22

              @brendanm: only $1100 to go so I be getting there soon at this rate! LOL

              • brendanm on 26/07/2021 - 07:33
                +2

                @Aerith-Waifu: Please don't continue with your plan of putting $10k into it. Put that money into your side job to grow it, invest in yourself.

          • cptdandan on 27/07/2021 - 08:57

            @Aerith-Waifu: what did you buy? Shiba Inu?

            to lose 75% is crazy, stop losses are your friend when dipping into Crypto… Did you research what you bought or did you jump on a fake hype train

  • Hybroid on 25/07/2021 - 18:51

    There's no hard and fast rule, it depends on the flow and what's discussed at the time.

    If the 'final interview' is purely assessing your technical competency for the role then obviously not the right time to talk about salary. If, however, it includes HR and hiring manager and there's discussions on the package being offered then obviously that's when you would share expectations and view.

    You also get a chance to do so when you get the written offer but that's for minor tweaks. Don't expect large changes at that point.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:37

      Thanks for that, to be honest I be happy if they give me $55k base

  • JimmyF on 25/07/2021 - 18:52
    +6

    Is The Final Interview The Time to Negotiate Salary or Do I Wait Once The Job Is Offered?

    Not sure why you even think there is a place to even negotiate? You seem to have a clear outline of the pay you will be getting. Why do you think they will go up from this?

    with less time worked.

    You keep telling yourself that….

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:37

      Yes less time worked will be a unknown factor until in……

      • lew380 on 26/07/2021 - 08:21

        Your exact hours should be clearly defined, they should also pay overtime if you have to work back, don't let them steal your time. If they don't pay to work longer hours, don't work longer hours.

  • morse on 25/07/2021 - 18:58

    It kind of sounds like you know what the salary is, I’d just confirm at the time the offer is made.

  • SF3 on 25/07/2021 - 19:01
    +1

    when is a good time to start a bit of salary negotiation?

    When you get the job, at you first performance review.

    $53500pa + Super + Commission (Around $2000 pa estimated) + if I stay with them I get $2500 yearly bonus

    You know very well, what has been offered…

    • popsiee on 25/07/2021 - 19:10
      +2

      2nd the Smart Lad here .

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:38

      Ok cool. thanks for that

  • Jameslane on 25/07/2021 - 19:08
    -1

    Can I ask what industry this is?

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:46

      I give you a hint:

      Not a lawyer
      Not a doctor
      Not a politician

      • Jameslane on 25/07/2021 - 20:40

        All good, I just read your older post. Assuming this is Job A from last October that you are now wanting to leave?

        • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 22:20

          Yes, started really well, then some months ago the manager changed, it all went down from there. Hardly ever finish on time now and was asked to come to work early 20-30 mins each day to do some 'organisational work' before the start of the day

          • Jameslane on 26/07/2021 - 00:36

            @Aerith-Waifu: It's interesting how fast things can change.

            Regardless of the negotiation outcome, a new employer who appreciates you is certainly worth moving for. Good luck with the final interview, please let us know how it goes.

  • Puglife on 25/07/2021 - 19:19
    +1

    50k? Isn't that basically minimum wage? I hope you didn't have to do a degree to get that.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:38
      +2

      Yes very close to minimum wage, I dont have a degree as I didnt even go to uni.

      • brendanm on 25/07/2021 - 20:02
        +8

        Uni is overrated a lot of the time.

    • dandosr on 25/07/2021 - 20:30
      +1

      I wouldn't sneeze at 50k.. its the 48 hours per hour that I would disagree with.

      • spackbace on 25/07/2021 - 21:39
        +4

        Yep, I'd hate to be asked to do 48 hours per hour… Seems a bit of a stretch!

        • brendanm on 26/07/2021 - 09:16
          +5

          $50k does seem low for someone with the ability to alter time and space 🤷‍♀️

          • Kangal on 26/07/2021 - 23:31
            +1

            @brendanm: Since he's altering space-time, it now makes sense why they're so bullish on crypto!

  • dizzle on 25/07/2021 - 19:35
    +2

    It depends how in demand your position is. If you're one of a few people that can do the job, introduce it early. If it's an entry level position or something that many can do, then you're stuck with what they offer (if you try to negotiate they'll probably choose someone else).

    To be honest $50k isn't a huge amount, so I would not be expect it to be a very specialised position. I don't think there's room to negotiate anything until you've been on the job for a while - ie annual review time.

  • thatonethere on 25/07/2021 - 19:39
    +1

    It is difficult. And depends muchly on the sector and the vibe of it.

    As the offerer it can be a real pain in the arse when the lead candidate who has been through thr interview process, discussed the salary and conditions, reference checks, has accepted the informal verbal offer gets the written offer in the form of an employment contract and then says "oh can I negotiate the salary?" Fark.

    However you don't want to be too needy early on so that the panel is going who is this guy with their salary demands?!!?!

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 19:44

      I did mention if the salary can be negotiated at the phone interview, the person on the phone actually said its up to the hiring manager but didn't deny or agree to the possibility

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 22:25
      +3

      Actually it works both ways, imagine the candidate going through 4 interviews, went to interviews after interviews over the cause of the 4 - 5 weeks periods, only to be told sorry the job went to someone else.

      Just saying……

  • mickyb80 on 25/07/2021 - 20:38
    +1

    I'm assuming you have already positioned what your expectations on salary is? It seems that have articulated the values. Usually, take this as a guide.
    Having been in recruitment, hired many people of the years and the likes, it a good idea to have presented a guide if you are this far along. However, to answer your question "best time to neg", it's simple. Until you are given an offer and they are seriously extended something to you, then you don't have any position to neg as yet.

    If you pass the final IV (which I'm guessing it sounds like you will), then rather than ask for an 'official employment contract', as for a 'letter of offer'. This should be an official offer, at least in an email body and will outline the salary package.

    Once you have this, you then know the role is yours. If they back out, you can (if you need) chase them should you resign from your new role and anything goes up 5#17 creek! Now you have their starting position, you know if it's worth you leaving your current role or not if you are happy to accept.

    Anything on top that you neg is creme, and this is the point you start to push.

    Good luck!

    • Aerith-Waifu on 25/07/2021 - 22:16

      Is it ok to ask for a 'Letter of offer' even though I have not signed for it? The zoom interviewer said they are going to interview 3 other candidates for this role so nothing is really sure at this stage. One thing it did surprise me is for a role that pays below the Australia average wage it now needs 4 interviews.

      Thank you for your suggestions. Much appreciated

      • mickyb80 on 25/07/2021 - 23:52
        +1

        No no… You only ask for a letter of offer in the event that calls you and says they would like to make an offer.
        Over the past many years when I've had the 'it's yours' call, I've always said, "thank you that's terrific…" etc. However, before moving forward to sign a contract, let make sure we have the salary particulars sorted.

        A good HR agent will understand this and know it will save them drafting up a contract for you to end up rejecting the offer.

        It's the point of neg and saves time-wasting.

        You can ask for a draft contract at the same time if the company has a template (which is typical), and review it while you neg the salary.

        But you need to wait for the 'congrats' call. If the company has the budget and really wants the candidate, they will offer a few extra $

        Remember - confirm if super is included or on top of any values the offer presents. 10% +/- is a fair chunk of any salary!

        • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 02:21

          Wonderful advice! Thank you!

  • Drakesy on 25/07/2021 - 23:25

    You're going to have to wait till you're accepted and they start putting contracts in front of you, then you can push for more saying this is what the market is paying etc.

    My best results have been from not being too quick to sign on the dotted line and getting back to them after a week.

    They were more inclined to offer higher if they knew you were considering other options (although they can also flake completely.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 02:21

      Thank you, good to know!

  • spal on 25/07/2021 - 23:59

    If they don't move much on $$$, maybe look for flexibility. Work longer hours but less days. Then you can make more from your side hustle, or even just have better work life balance. Apologies, if this sounds like getting a free tank of fuel or mats with cars, when there isn't much to negotiate.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 02:22
      +1

      No thats great advice, thank you

  • Porker on 26/07/2021 - 05:11
    +2

    I've performed many interviews and hired many too.

    I'm always clear about the salary range for the job and have had a few interviewees discuss it, just as I have had similar discussions when I've gone for interviews.

    In my mind, it's good to know if I'm wasting my time with someone or not as interviewer. Eg. If they value themselves more than i can offer, then there's really no point proceeding and they should look elsewhere at a place that can accommodate them.

    It really depends on the business you're trying to be employed in, which OP is not revealing.

    I used to work for a private firm and we negotiated my salary to some length as to them it was about value and ROI. My current employment has set budgets that cannot be exceeded such that I simply can't exceed what I don't have so can't offer more than advertised.

  • Waltervp on 26/07/2021 - 08:55

    I'm from rural Tasmania and I can't imagine earning that sort of money, but I do know that no matter what your income is wherever you are, it is universally accepted that the ideal income is…. 20% more!

    And seriously, if you do go for a job with such defined income parameters, don't go negotiating it before you're hired! You can let them know, if they enquire about your future prospects, that you have high aspirations for the future and hope to do well in their company and buy your first Tesla soon, but don't start negotiating income at this stage.

  • waterbottled on 26/07/2021 - 09:01

    Not sure if this will happen to you, but in relation to my current job, when they first offered me the position they also told me the pay they're offering to pay me. I had another job that I was hoping to get an offer from so I didn't respond to the job offer for a week hoping I can stall them until I find out about job #2. Then a week later, I got another call from the first company and they upped the pay by 16% and asked if I wanted it. I took it then and there. I called the 2nd company to find out if I got the job but they said I didn't. Turned out they never bothered to even notify me that I didn't get the job.

  • popsiee on 26/07/2021 - 10:02
    +1

    With all due respect the only clue is OP job is well below the Aust Ave wage hence there should be a lot of supply .
    Try and negotiate at the interview a higher wage = Elimation from the prospect .
    End

    • jackary on 26/07/2021 - 17:04

      As someone who works in a salary range even lower than OP - I can agree that this is sad but entirely correct

    • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 21:56

      Yes that is true. But also here in WA there is a huge shortage of workers. Which can be advantage to those with experiences.

  • Rockets84 on 26/07/2021 - 10:37

    There's a few ways I go with this. If I'm being head hunted and a company or recruiter approaches me for a job then I'm very upfront about what I'd expect in remuneration. There's zero point going through all the process only to be presented a offer that's no where near what you want. If I seek out a job but the remuneration isn't listed, I'll ask what their expecting to pay if it's ball park to what you want then go through the process and then start the negotiation towards the end of the process. If the job is advertised with the remuneration included then again go through the process, negotiation at the end but these jobs tend to have only a little wriggle room.

    I was head hunted for a job at the start of the year and I was upfront with what I was currently getting and I went through a really arduous recruitment process including a 3 hour physical to only get presented with a offer that was far below what I'm currently getting with only a possibility to get close if I was invited into the company's bonus program after my 3 month probation, I made all my KPI's, the company made all it's KPI's and how high the companies share price was. None of the bonus program they would put in writing because I hadn't been invited into it yet. So I told the recruitment lady that's a catch 22. Having been caught out with these bonus programs in the past I turned down the offer and they then had the gaul to get snarky with me when I'd been pretty clear right in the beginning, if anyone had the right to be annoyed it was me for them wasting my time.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 26/07/2021 - 21:57

      That really sux. Thanks for sharing

  • OzHunterNSW on 26/07/2021 - 14:42

    Salary should be negotiated regardless of how many applicants there are. it is not based on "money" it is based on qualifications in order to do the job…. otherwise they would employ the garbo guy.

    Research what top rates are for similar position… you fight to demonstrate that you are the person they need and this is the salary you expect

  • HeWhoKnows on 26/07/2021 - 15:31

    When they ask you or make you an offer

  • Overclocked91 on 30/07/2021 - 07:05

    In my position, I went for the interview and they sent me a letter of offer the next day. Before I agreed to accept the offer I called to have the pay altered. I was in a position where I didn't need to take the job that may be different to your situation.

  • Aerith-Waifu on 30/07/2021 - 17:04

    I just got the call after 4th interviews midweek, the job went to another candidate with more experiences who work in similar roles, when I asked was it filled internally they said they cant give out this information.

    I understand their position but it kind sux to go through all these interviews only to lose to someone who already working for them in another capacity.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2021 - 17:20

      Sorry to hear OP, it does suck but how can you be sure it was an internal hire if they didn't release that information?

      • Aerith-Waifu on 30/07/2021 - 17:32

        When I asked the question, the recruitment kind of said something about someone knows their system. My conclusion is how would someone knows their system if they are not already working for them?

        Anyway, time to hit the road again and looking for something else that may suit. I am certainly not staying with the current company

        • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2021 - 17:35

          They could be a onsultant, they know the systems of many businesses even though they don't technically work there. They could also be company alumni.

          Anyway, time to hit the road again and looking for something else that may suit. I am certainly not staying with the current company

          It's a numbers game, don't give up.

          • Aerith-Waifu on 30/07/2021 - 17:48
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Its possible, still sux to go through 4 interviews only to be told someone knows the system got the job though…………..Thanks anyway:)

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