I'm looking for an ebike for a 10km (quite hilly) commute, which would be better? I have heard that pre built, such as Bosch are harder and much more expensive to maintain/ replace parts? But I don't really think i'd be able to built/ maintain/ repair one either..
Pre Built or Self Build Ebike?
alex123711 on 07/07/2021 - 18:19
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I currently use that, however its about a 50+ minute commute at the moment which is a bit too much for me, hoping to speed it up a bit
fair enough. motorbike then? or scooter?
sorry, I'm just a hater when it comes to e-bikes!
Why is that? (just out of interest)
@FLICKIT: Old school pushbike rider! ha!
Feel like e-bikes are cheating… Then again, haven't been on the bike for months…
I had a quick research of this a while ago and DIY simply wasn't cost effective for parts alone. Only way to make it cheap was used batteries or otherwise alternative power options like Ozito/Aldi battery packs, but even then the motor, controllers etc were still quite expensive.
How expensive? More expensive than pre built? What about getting a new battery/ repairs for pre built?
I made my own - bought a barely used Merida XT MTB with disc brakes off gumtree (it was like new) and fitted a BBSHD. Cost me about $2.5k all up.
where did you buy the BBSHD from and what battery?
Luna Mate.
https://luna-mate.com/luna-mate-bafang-bbshd-1000w-kitI got a BBSHD, 52V 14ah Samsung 35E battery, colour display, hydraulic disc brake sensors, programming cable, socket tool, thumb throttle. I also got the 42T Al chainring plus the stock steel chainring. Cost about $1850
I got the donor bike for a steal. Costs about $2k new and I paid like $700.
I've recently been researching a similar project, I'm not really that far into the research yet, I'm just working on getting a feel for it all.. (and I'm looking at offroad use only if anyone's concerned about the road-use legalities)…
I assume you did a reasonable amount of research before you dove in, has it all lived up to expectations?, (installation, usability, and functionality wise)….
What are your thoughts on the BBSHD (1000W) compared to the BBS02B (750W) ?
What can you change with the USB cable?, I assume that's for the BBSHD only?, do you actually use it and is that feature worthwhile?…
Do you think the battery cells are genuine Samsung?, does the battery last as-expected?
Any other comments or suggestions on doing a Bafang conversion will be greatly appreciated… Cheers…
@FLICKIT: I looked into this for a long while and it just isn't worth the effort and risk of buying random parts and trying to retrofit them when you can just buy a prebuilt NCM Moscow or Aspen for $1,700 (even cheaper in offers) or upgraded Plus versions for $2k mark. They're fantastic on off-road trails and haven't skipped a beat. Other brands exist too of course.
@Hybroid: Thanks… I'm not sure a hub-drive would suit my intended purpose of pottering around offroad where's it's too extreme and/or there's too much windfall to drag the motorbike through…
Those bikes do look reasonable for average bicycle use though… (legal road use, bike tracks, and such)
@FLICKIT: Yeah hub motors suck ass compared to a mid drive.. at least they did when I made mine. With a mid drive the motor gets the mechanical advantage of the gears and gives you a lower centre of gravity. I could ride up Mount Everest on mine.
mid drive the motor gets the mechanical advantage of the gears
I could ride up Mount Everest on mine.That's what I need for the places I have in mind ;)
@FLICKIT: I worked in a bicycle shop as a mechanic while at uni so the conversion was easy. It’s not difficult. Just be careful because:
bottom brackets come in different widths. You need a motor of the correct width and may need a spacer kit. BBSHD comes in 3 widths.
BBSHD uses threaded bottom bracket. If you have a press fit bottom bracket you may need an adapter to make it threaded.
the donor bike needs to be the correct frame geometry. You need clearance for the motor and the front chainring to derailleur chain angle to not be too extreme of it will not be straight enough and could wear excessively.
There is info online about what to look for.
Battery has been great. Luna is a well known US store and I think their products are OK.
The cable allows you to set street legal limit of 250W and also change the assist steps - default is 5 but I think it can do 9 and maybe 3. Ive never actually used the cable so waste of money for me.
The hydraulic brake sensors are necessary IMHO. They detect when you brake and cut motor power. You don’t want to try braking while the bike is still accelerating. The kit comes with cable brake calipers with sensors, but my brakes are hydraulic.
I love it. Had it at least 4 years and would replace instantly if it died.
EDIT: I should clarify my info is from a few years ago so confirm all this still applies. The kit looks identical to the one I have though.
Had it at least 4 years and would replace instantly if it died
Cheers, that all sounds very reassuring…
conversion was easy. It’s not difficult.
I have no concerns with that side of it, I have good mechanical and electrical aptitude/experience, my main thoughts revolve around getting the best bang-for-buck and to end up with something functional, something to fit inbetween the dirtbike and hiking…
… It sounds like you got a good deal with your donor bike, it looks ideal… I've been offered a low-end Scotts for $400 that's basically new, one of these:
https://99spokes.com/bikes/scott/2018/aspect-950-blackorangeNo rear suspension but it's cheap enough as a foot in the door, it seems to run fairly standard gear and has decent hyd brakes and such, and It's a Shimano BB-UN100 BB which "seems" ok for the 68mm Bafang, I suspect I'll probably have to buy a smaller offset lekki chainring to get it into the sweet-spot …. If it all works out ok I'll keep my eye out for a better bike to swap the E-setup onto in the future…
I discovered today a mate has one of these beasts:
https://www.specialized.com/au/en/turbo-levo/p/154382?color=…
so I'll catch up with him soon and check it out, it might help me settle on a plan…@FLICKIT: RE the beast. BBSHD setup definitely looks more ghetto than those prebuilt bikes. I just couldnt spend that much on a toy. But if your into serious off-roading or commuting it might be worth it.
I don’t know if any prebuilt are going to be 1000W but I have not looked for ages. I suspect the BBSHD 1000W is probably an exaggeration anyway.
@lunchbox99: That pre-built bike my mate has is like $10k+ new it seems, he paid a lot less, he's a fairly serious MTBer and he raved about it, it's boosted my enthusiasm to build something, I'll go have a play on it later in the week…. I could NEVER justify that sorta money, that's more than I'd spend on a pretty decent motorbike, lol…. I'm just looking at building a man-handleable pack-horse really, something I can walk or carry over/through the stuff that I cant get past on a motorbike, access more places than I can now… (and I want to keep the budget to a couple of grand to start with so if I have to abandon it somewhere I dont feel like I'm leaving a kidney behind)
Donor bike? How easy was the kit to install and what speed/ range does it get, is it pedal assist?
@alex123711: Donor bike meaning the bike you’re mounting the motor onto.
Pedal assist is the default. Kit also comes with a thumb throttle. I don’t have it installed.
If I’m pedalling on flat I can easily go so fast I can’t pedal any faster. Easily does 45kph but I haven’t done a speed test. You can probably do go faster.
Range depends on terrain, assist and total weight. I’m not light and riding 25k is no problem. My suburb has some very steep hills and I noticed voltage drop near home a few times on the way back. I have ridden 42k a few times on mostly flat bike path (ie 21k return).
You can get a bigger battery. I haven’t done a heap of hill trail riding. I imagine it would deplete the battery faster. I ride up some moderately steep dirt tracks near my house and it’s fine, but I’m only riding 10k in total.
@lunchbox99: I should say the reason I don’t have the thumb throttle installed is because it’s illegal for road use, as is 1000W. A good way to be pulled over by the police is cruising around without pedalling. If you ride sensibly I feel your unlikely to have drama.
- don’t ride too fast on public roads or bike paths.
- use pedal assist, not throttle
- slow down near people and cars
If you hit someone and injure them you could be a world of legal and financial pain.
@alex123711: If your off-roading maybe search opinions. The BBSHD locks onto the bottom bracket with little protrusion like teeth that bite when you screw the bottom bracket on tight.
I had some issues with minor rotation. It seemed like the weight of the motor was causing the teeth to wear the side of the bottom bracket. Happened no matter how much I tightened it. I ended up using a metal cable tie to hold the motor against the frame and it can’t move at all. Not sure if this is a common issue.
The other thing I didn’t like is you have to use their crank set. They are the shitty square taper type which was a step down from the stock ones on my donor bike. I had to tighten them a few times initially to stop them squeaking.
The BBSHD locks onto the bottom bracket with little protrusion
I had some issues with minor rotation.
Not sure if this is a common issue.I've read if you get a decent socket for tightening it, and do it up to the recommended torque, they're ok and they dont move, people say it's near impossible to get them tight enough with the supplied pressed-steel wrench…
@lunchbox99: I notice the Americans are making stabilizer bars for them also:
https://california-ebike.com/shop/bsb-1-bafang-stabilizer-ba…@FLICKIT: The motor is quite heavy so I imagine if you are belting around offroad it would be prone to moving. The stablizer is a great idea.
My ghetto solution was a metal cable tie making a loop around the diagonal frame, then a metal cable tie second loop through it around the motor - so the two cable tie rings are interlinked (and 90 deg to each other). I just made them as tight as possible, but could still scratch the frame if it moves around.
That bar looks pretty good. If you don't want to drill the frame you can cable tie the horizontal frame member as they suggest. I might buy one. Thanks!!
I notice they have a heavy duty version linked too.
https://california-ebike.com/shop/heavy-duty-bafang-stabiliz…@lunchbox99: I just noticed in a youtube video the new version of the BBSHD has a loop on top which is designed to be tied to the frame with a hose clamp similar to what you do, lol…
https://youtu.be/5T1w3qHPvG0?t=106
What you've done seems like a wise thing to do from the start, I think I'll do the same if/when I do mine…For the OP… I just found this company which seems to have an ok reputation and their prices look ok, a 750w kit with 48v 17.5AH battery is around $1200aud delivered using the 10% off code "BAFANG"… The 1000w 52V BBSHD kit is about $400 more…
https://www.eunorau-australia.com/collections/bbs-ena-series…@lunchbox99: I just noticed Luna have motor stabilizer bars also…
https://lunacycle.com/bbshd-parts/
But I don't really think i'd be able to built/ maintain/ repair one either..
Makes me wonder why you even have to ask.
First test, she;s rippin !
https://youtu.be/ccyhF5vAgo8I would recommend anyone without good mech & electrical aptitude to just buy a pre-built bike…. Hub drives start around $1200, mid-drives abounds $3k…
Hey FLICKIT I can't tell by the vid whether you used the stabiliser bar or the pipe clamps trick? I'm going to be doing a Bafang build soon but $60ish for the stabiliser bar seems a bit steep.
Any hiccups with the installation at all? And any issues with the chain coming off with the standard chainring?
I used a cheap ebay turnbuckle as a stabilizer, I paid $7.66 for 2, they've since jacked the price up to $9 because they have the ebay plus code PLUSSP22 which brings the price down to $7:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171650018202
You can get a single one for $5.50
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/222653880511
From memory there was sellers with single ones without the other bits for about $4, but I wanted a spare so it worked out cheaper to buy the 2 in the kit…I cut one side of the U-shaped mount off each end and screwed the top end to one of the bottle holder mounts, from memory I had to run a 6mm drill through the motor end so it would fit over the mounting bolt:
https://i.postimg.cc/HsLQXPsy/20210925-222602.jpg
The locking ring spanner that came with my motor kit is pretty good and it wasn't hard to get it all nice and tight so I probably didn't need the to add a stabilizer but with the number of people that have issues with their motors coming loose I figure it was cheap insurance…No issues really, the rear side of the large circular section behind the chainring was touching the chainstay so I filed it down a bit so it would clear the chainstay, that caused the stock 44t chainring to almost be touching the chainstay, so I ordered a 3 pack of 1.5mm spacers and used one to space it all out by 1.5mm:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/224100378952
Due to spacing that side out I had to install a couple of washers between the triangle mounting plate and the motor on the other side so the plate stayed square to the end of the BB:
https://i.postimg.cc/sgtrr8Nd/20210925-222618.jpgMy chainline is pretty good but I had the chain jump off once when I was in the lowest gear in rough country, probably due to the chain being a bit long at the time, but I installed a chainguide for insurance:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/373650352021
I've done about 150km since installing it and there's no real wear marks on it so I don't think it was really necessary but better to play it safe since I want to head into some remote areas…44t chainring and the 11-32 cassette on the 29" wheels is fine for the flattish riding but I feel it's a bit high for what I want to do so I replaced the 11-32 cassette with a $30 Aliexpress 11-42, first ride I ended up breaking it, lol, I changed down through the gears going up a steep rough hill and due to the steepness I didn't cut the power while changing gears, it made a bit of a mess of the cassette….
https://i.postimg.cc/hPpbzRLx/20210829-114154c.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c4sBLLn0/20210829-114210c.jpg
I've since ordered a $25 gear shift sensor so the motor power will be cut for 0.8 of a second when I change gear:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001462909500.html
Riding smoothish and flat ground it seems to change gears fine without the sensor but I think it's a must in the rough stuff due to using more power and such…I've since ordered a 11-46 cassette and a 104BCD 32t chainring to play around with, I suspect I'll have chainline issues with that chainring but I still want to try… If the chainline is too bad to run up onto the 46t I may end up blocking it out with the derailleur adjustment and run the cassette as a 7speed 11-40 with the 32t chainring, I'll see what happens when they arrive…
I got my kit from these guys, no complaints, there were other stores a little cheaper but this company sells a lot, ships from Aus, and had good feedback… Since they ship from Aus if there was any issues it would be returned to an Aussie address, not back to china:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32925991677.html
I paid about $1260 with the 860c display and 17.5AH battery, the prices seem to fluctuate day to day from about $1250 to $1300 so it's worth tracking the prices before buying, it looks like they have a sale coming up in a couple of days… Also, AliExpress dont charge GST on orders over $1000 and since they ships from Australia Customs don't hit you with a GST bill either, so due to dodging GST it probably worked out about the same price as the other cheaper companies that ship from china…Performance wise I'm quite content, I'm glad I didn't spend the extra money on the heavier and bulkier BBSHD, I did a 70km ride the other day and the battery was still showing 63% at the end, I have the speed limited to 25kmh and I tend to pedal around 27kmh on the flat so I dont use a great deal of power on the flat, but over the ride I felt I used a heap of power, especially towards the end of the ride when I was worn out…
If you're bored, here's a bit of a video from the 70km ride, 2x speed to make it more interesting:
https://youtu.be/vhiZr2Midiw
and a slow 47km ride at normal speed, pretty boring:
https://youtu.be/N6OJ1yfg8BkThanks for the comprehensive review! I’ve been trying to figure out if it’s worth the extra money for 1000w, good to hear you’re happy with the 750w performance
@Chickenleg: I also bought a programming cable for $15 from china so I've played around with the controller programming a bit….
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32878649385.htmlMost of my riding I run my pedal assist level at around 40 to 50%, the watt meter doesn't go any higher than about 350 watts, it's only in the steeper stuff I increase the pedal assist up to around 750w…
I have my max amps set at 20amps so full power would be around 1000w, to be kind to the controller I generally avoid using the 100% power but it's nice to know I've got it if I need it…
Personally I don't think I'd need the extra power of the BBSHD, everyone is different though…. (I may change my mind once I start doing more serious offroad riding)
@FLICKIT: Sounds like I probably wouldn't need the 1000w then, mine will just mostly a metro commuter.
Have you heard of the Eggrider for tuning? Gets good reviews
@Chickenleg: I looked into the Eggrider, it's nice to have the ability to program the controller on the fly but I doubt I'd ever use it for programming after the first couple of rides, it's not like programming needs changing constantly,… There's an Android app now that you can use with the USB programming cable so you can program without a PC and/or while out and about, the only downside is that you need to unplug the display to plug in the USB cable…
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkopa.spee…The minimal size of the Eggrider was attractive also but at around $150 I'm happy to stick with the factory display.. I was tossing up between the small 500c display and the 850 or 860c, the 860c seemed the best in sunlight so I went with that, and I figured the decent display may help with resale value if riding didn't work out for me and I ended up selling the bike… I was also keen to have a watt meter I could see easily to help with the learning process, so I could learn how to maximize range and work to keep the watts down in the hills to avoid any possible overheating issues and such …
At the end of the day I think most the displays are very similar, it all comes down to personal preference…
I should have mentioned I got the turnbuckle stabilizer idea from here:
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/bafang-mid-drives/…Would you say it's a necessity? Or just peace of mind
@Chickenleg: On an aluminium frame if you take care with the install I think it would be fine without a stabilizer for average riding, you just need to make sure the teeth on the triangular mounting plate bite into the BB real well… If you plan on doing a lot of offroad or rough riding it's probably more important to have a stabilizer so the jarring and shock cant cause the motor to drop…
I installed my motor, did a couple of short rides, then I pulled it all apart to install the 1.5mm spacer, I found the teeth on the triangle plate had dug into the BB nicely, nice clean bite marks that seemed like they were in to the full depth of the teeth, and when I reassembled it I added some blue loctite to the mounting nut to ensure the nut couldn't work loose, and I torqued it up damn tight again… After my first couple of big rides I grabbed the motor and tried to wiggle it to ensure there was no movement, if I had detected any movement I would have removed the lock nut and nut, added new loctite, and retorqued it again..
I think the issues arise because when people first install it the teeth on the plate don't fully bite into the BB, then as they ride the teeth wear into the BB and that causes the nut becomes loose, then the issue snowballs because it doesn't take much movement to slog out the area where the teeth bite in…
I think it's wise to install it, tighten the nut up real tight (without loctite), ride a bit so the plate teeth can fully bed into the BB, then remove the nut, add loctite, and torque it back up again…
Also, make sure the motor is hard up against the downtube when you first install it so there's no way the torque of the motor can rotate the motor… All the torque of the motor is up against the downtube, the only forces the other way are from gravity… Some people add rubber between the motor and the downtube but I dont think that's a good idea because the rubber can compress allowing the motor to move a little, and in turn the plate teeth can slog out the grooves they've created in the BB…
I hope that makes sense…
An 80 second video overview:
https://youtu.be/6oPaFzd5DRcWith bike choice my main priority was to get hydraulic brakes and a suitable BB for the Bafang, and I didn't want to spend too much money on a "learner bike" that I was going to hack around…. In an ideal world I wouldn't have bought a bike with integrated brake and gear change controls because they're quite bulky and I cant remove the controls for the front derailleur which isn't used anymore… It's only a cheap bike and I suspect I'll swap the BBS02 onto something better in the not too distant future so I haven't gone to a great deal of effort to mount the brake sensors and magnets, they're just held on with clear silicon which can be peeled off quite easily to return the bike to original condition if needed… (If I was fussy at all I would have spent the money on black silicon rather than use the clear I had on hand, lol)
Bike Specs:
https://99spokes.com/en-AU/bikes/scott/2018/aspect-950-black…I started with a $2k budget in mind:
$400 - Scott Aspect 950 2018 MTB Gumtree
$1260 Bafang 750w
$13 - Bafang BB spacers
$11 - Bike tools
$8 - Turnbuckles
$20 - granny seat
$30 - 11-42 cassette
$43 - 11-46 cassette
$32 - 32t 104bcd chainring
$30 - chain guide
$23 - Adjustable bar stem riser
$33 - gear sensor and Y-cable
$26 - Chains x2
$10 - Master links
$15 - brake pads
$22 - tank bag
$8 - triangle bag
$10 - spare innertube + valve adapters
$10 - tyre pump
Total = $2004Awesome. I reckon mine will be somewhat similar as i'm thinking to do the 750w on an entry level hardtail mtb (when i find one). Not for actual mountain biking, more for comfort as i commute on a road bike.
Finally finished! Would have been done a month ago but Aus Post lost my original motor 🤦♂️. Luckily Greenergy sent me another one, legends.
Neither… How about a real, manual old school pushie!?
If you must, i'd say prebuilt, better warranty cover… no?
Just depends on whats important to you.