Google letter regarding Motorola and patent war. Wants 2.25% of all sales on FRAND patents

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  scotty on 12/02/2012 - 22:19

  +1

  Maybe the masterplan is, because of this ridiculous evil abuse of patent (+ lots of complains from the competitors), US would then consider an overhaul of the system?

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  robotdad on 17/02/2012 - 10:52

  Thanks for the interesting link.

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  Cobalt_ on 17/02/2012 - 12:01

  Apple started all this nonsense, now they can suffer. Patent law in the US is a complete joke and patent trolling runs rife. Look no further than RAMBUS which basically lives to sue other companies through their patent portfolios rather than actually creating useful technologies themselves. Will US lawmakers learn from this experience? I have my doubts

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  [Deactivated] on 18/02/2012 - 19:48

  Apple started all this nonsense

  Maybe true, would you care to back this statement up with some references.

  Then if you or I owned a Patent I'd like to be sure it would offer some sort of protection against someone ripping it off. And while not all would agree, if something is protected by a patent, then someone else has to think of another way. Apple Patented the slide to unlock system, Google developed this alternative, which might actually be better

  http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/02/google-p…

  Or do you think that Google shouldn't be able to patent this?

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  Cobalt_ on 18/02/2012 - 23:09

  The patent should never have been granted in the first place. As per the link below:
  http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-granted-patent-slide-unl…

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    [Deactivated] on 19/02/2012 - 09:15

    Its all in interpretation. If as you say this invalidates the Apple Patent, then any gesture unlocking just like the Google patent awarded, is also invalid. And a German court just accepted that they are valid (vs Motorola)

    The German court looked at three different Motorola implementations of gesture-based device unlocking and found that two infringed on Apple's patent, namely those used by the RAZR maker's Android smartphones.

    The third example, used by Motorola's in its Xoom tablet, showed enough of a difference from Apple's patent to escape injunction. That particular implementation is similar to that of the Galaxy Note, Mueller says, and requires a user to swipe their finger from inside a circle to outside.

    So with a little creative thinking rather than slavishly copying someone else's idea, a better result will evolve. Patents do as I said before, encourage innovation in 2 ways.

    1. To protect ideas and
    2. To encourage alternatives

    But back to the main point. Your example is NOT a standards patents issue.

    You can operate your iphone, android phone windows phone and Nokia, without slide to unlock.

    Without standards patents, they cant interact with others devices.

    These standards are approved, so that this interaction can occur. Google/Motorola patents were incorporated into the standards because of the FRAND agreements, they accepted. To then use those patents unreasonably is a far greater abuse of the patent and FRAND system.

    And BTW most of the "action" in these cases are outside the USA

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      Cobalt_ on 19/02/2012 - 16:19

      Patenting a vague idea that is only a logical progression on a touch screen device is complete nonsense. Software patents in general are mostly nonsense as they usually attribute to a vague ideas rather than a direct process or way to deal with a problem. If it was a patent to protect a process you spent significant time or money developing (especially in manufacturing) then that is fine. But what Apple does is beyond a joke.

      It's even more amusing that they go ahead and copy Android features like the pull down status menu which they are allowed to do because it's open source. But as usual Apple smacks of hypocrisy.

      If we're talking about direct copying of code then I would see an issue, but to me vague ideas shouldn't count. Rather than stifling competition these companies should be working on developing and improving their products instead of suing each other.

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        [Deactivated] on 20/02/2012 - 18:29

        You still go on about Apple and its patents, but ignore the FRAND licensing issue which the topic is all about. But then again I suppose if you are in the Android camp you dont want to know that your "team" is just as ruthless as its opposition might be.

        Then you state

        Rather than stifling competition these companies should be working on developing and improving their products instead of suing each other.

        A perfect example of what FRAND patents should be. But M/G dont want to provide this working together ina fair and reasonable way. And in the end a court will HAVE to decide, as obviously the companies cant agree. Or do you have an alternative way to resolve this issue

        And how can you keep developing new ideas etc when the other can just rip these off. Again. develop something new rather than just copying the other. What are logo's, they dont deal with your example of a "problem" - you can make rules whatever you like, but the law is there and there is a reason.

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        Cobalt_ on 20/02/2012 - 20:20

        There's no disputing that Google is playing dirty. But lets face it, Steve Jobs before his death set out to "Destroy Android". As far as I can tell Apple has basically refused to cross license any of their patents (as spurious as they may be). So if this is what Google/Moto have to resort to to keep Android alive then I'm all for it.

        There are many examples where bitter rivals will still have large and intertwined cross licensing agreements. Take AMD and Intel as an example. They can still play ball even if it takes some encouragement from regulatory authorities to work together on the IP front.

        So why should Apple be any different. They want their cake and to eat it too.

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        [Deactivated] on 21/02/2012 - 00:36

        So if this is what Google/Moto have to resort to to keep Android alive then I'm all for it.

        Fair point, BUT dont then go the moral route that you have in the past posts. And again there is a difference to FRAND patents which were granted standards because the patentee agreed this was to be fair.

        And if you argue Android can only survive because they rip off another's patents then you destroy all your other arguments.

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  Cobalt_ on 21/02/2012 - 02:31

  I still stand by my original point that most of these "crucial" patents Apple holds are BS and that patent law in the US is a complete joke.

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    [Deactivated] on 21/02/2012 - 04:37

    LOL - then with arguments like that you better run for US president….

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      Cobalt_ on 21/02/2012 - 13:34

      I reckon I'd do a much better job than the current lot ;)

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  A Banana4scale on 25/02/2012 - 12:20

  why is this in CIA?

  Somehow I doubt this will affect pricing of products, specially since I believe Google/Moto are doing it to force Patent Reforms, which are much needed in the Patent Wars of the 2010s.

  I think Google/Moto have realised that the current Patent laws are not suitable/unhealthy for the development of technology. They are using the wrong patents to do this, and may as well be fined heavily for it. But if in the process of doing so bring about a change in the patenting laws, so be it.

  TBH Slide to Unlock should never have been granted a patent anyways, every touchscreen unlocking method other than the power button involves some sort of slide to enable unlocking. They all are infringing the Slide to Unlock patent this way.

  With regards to FRAND patenting, again Google/Moto are doing it wrong and shouldn't be focusing on FRAND patents anyways. I'm sure they have plenty more patents to drive the patent reform idea home.

  Lastly Apple are being investigated for Anti-trust since 2007, no result has come of since then. Time to get a move on