They aren't, but I want to hear people's opinions on the matter.
Are Liberals Good Economic Managers?
deme on 28/06/2021 - 21:38
Last edited 28/06/2021 - 22:21 by 1 other user
Last edited 28/06/2021 - 22:21 by 1 other user
Poll Options
- 89Not Good Economic Managers
- 25Good Economic Managers
Comments
but I want to hear people's opinions on the matter.
Thats BS.
More trolling spam from OP… Chalk up another deleted forum post
lol
No. Liberals - of the socialiast bent - in general are not good economic managers, of course this depends on where you sit on the scale of low, medium or high income earner.
The Liberal party - in Australia - on the other hand is another matter altogether. Still depends where on the scale of low, medium or high income earner you are, that you may form your opinion.
Also depends on whether you look at politics with an objective or subjective bent. The fact you've asked the question, whilst stating your own position suggests the subjective bent for you, so why ask?
Liberals - of the socialiast bent - in general are not good economic managers
The Liberal party - in Australia - on the other hand is another matter altogether.Yeah, the LNP is even worse at it.
The Liberals got that reputation during the Menzies government when post war economic boom allowed them to both avoid debt and high (for the time) taxes because the services government provided were a very low standard.
When Whitlam was elected there was a huge burst of new services to meet the pent up demand in the community, and Whitlam’s government raised taxes and borrowed money (they also made some poor errors of judgement about finances).
As always, people wanted their cake and to eat it, so we’re open to Liberals saying they would maintain services but cut taxes.
This never really happened.
Later governments of both Liberal and Labor sold off assets like CBA, Telstra, Qantas etc. to make the books look better, but neither was able to deliver all the services desired at the low taxes promised.Come the GFC and Rudd and Swann did a surprisingly good job. They really did top work to stop the worst effects, then both them and the Liberals got lucky with China’s buying propping up our finances - something that has a limited lifespan.
So I don’t think either party can deliver the ‘better economic manager’ outcome of good services and cheap taxes.
Judging from the way Abbot an Hockey tried to get their by cutting important services, it is no surprise ScoMo has given up, for all his bluster.Since the only particularly good economic moves were from Rudd and Swann, I;lol give them the title. If ScoMo/Frydenburg end up doing OK in COVID by following Labor’s playbook (which they have been doing so far) I won’t know whether to give them credit for being pragmatic, or the left wing policies they adopted.
You appear to have omitted the fact that it was the Howard/Costello government that paid down $96B of debt to bring the federal budget into balance in the first term and a half, and brought overall nett debt to a significant low, which left Rudd/Swan with an extremely strong base to work from heading into the GFC.
I am not so sure Rudd/Swan did such a great job to get Australia through the GGC; sure economic stimulus is what it took to get the country out the other side of the GFC in a relatively strong position, but we needed to be in a strong position going into the GFC.
Disecting the stimulus approach of the Rudd/Swan government:
- $1000 cheques to former tax payers living abroad/outside of Australia - not such a win
- School halls - yes, probably the best investment from the GFC period, although not so well managed that taxpayers probably didn't get as much value vs. what was paid
- Insulatation batts - started a massive industry of 'over-nighters' with little to no experience, resulting in installer deaths and house firesWhen you refer to Abbott/Hocke cutting important services - what are you referring to, NDIS? Agreed NDIS is a vitally important service to the nation, however it was the Gillard/Swan government that 'formulated' the NDIS stratergy, without any future revenue forecasts to fund it. Someone has to do the math on how to fund promises made with no underlying income to support it.
We all want more than is available, and we all have to pay for it. Governments have no money; the money they have is our hard-earned tax, company tax, etc. so nothing comes for free.
…which left Rudd/Swan with an extremely strong base to work from heading into the GFC.
This isn't really how the world works. It's not a household budget where you scrimp and save so you're good for a rainy day. We have a central bank that issues sovereign currency; it is almost entirely immaterial what "position" you are in.Though It is a canard that gets trotted out by party-faithfuls, it has very little in common with modern economic thought. Irrespective I am not sure selling significant nationalised assets is a good criteria for "good economic manager"; we would just call that a one-trick pony. Certainly the structure of some of the sales are questionable at best (Telecom not being split up into wholesale/retail arms, for one, gold during dips is another).
However it was the Gillard/Swan government that 'formulated' the NDIS stratergy, without any future revenue forecasts to fund it.
Certainly nobody should be making this kind of statement about the NDIS while fawning over Howard, whose final tax reform came into effect after he left office and left a structural deficit in the budget.
Howard ‘paying down the debt’ was largely via the sale of Telstra, which cost us that future income stream. You can make a case either way about whether they got a good price, but it wasn’t some masterstroke of prudent budgeting, it was selling off the family silver.
I feel the same way about the Labor privatisation of CBA and CSL, so don’t get upset that I’m not even handed here.Abbot and Hockey delivered a budget with a bunch of cuts. Because they weren’t very good at leading (as opposed to opposition) they weren’t able to make the cuts they hoped for.
Which is where we end up with ScoMo inheriting record debt from Abbot/Turnbull and then smashing all records to borrow more.
So you’ll forgive me if I don’t rate them. If I take your position that debt must be repaid by spending control, ScoMo has been the worst financial disaster ever. I think the growth support policies will probably be better than austerity - as they were in the GFC. So I’ll reserve judgement for now.
But I don’t think we’ll see the Liberals coasting on their economic credentials going forward.
Oooh you got down voted by a LNP (profanity) who doesn't like facts lol. Have an up vote!
cringe
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-16/great-barrier-reef-fu…
I was wondering if that one was going to get looked into… although it doesn't look like the charity's links to the LNP were investigated.
"Already, the foundation has successfully delivered early milestones and established an ambitious fundraising target of $300-400 million.
And so they spent the money working out how to get more money…?
If you want to have an opinion on govt management then don't base it on the garbage you get from the media.
What goes on at the coal face is very different to what is fed to the plebs by journalists.
I didn't think OZB was into political debates?The idea that Liberals save money and Labor spends is no longer accurate. How many deficits have we had under the Liberals?
The Libs never saved money, they just sold off public assets.
Why is a troll censoring the word toss?
I'm still waiting on the budget surplus they promised when elected many years ago.
Generally No but I think ScoMo and Josh have done a good job in an impossible situation. I would of hated to think how Shortens ALP would of managed the pandemic the bloke was Mr help Minorities and stuff the people who actually work and pay tax.
However it is generally a myth that the Liberals are good economic managers (however are worse ALP), just like it is a Myth ALP are good for the workers as all they ever seem to do is tax the middle class working people and give that money to themselves and minories.
Unlike the US we have a FAR more socialist outlook in Australia - weather people like it or not Socialism equals poor money management and wasting loads of money on ideal that dont make money which is the opposite to the US where it is a very capitalist outlook.
Most successful business people are ruthless and not afraid to make hard and unpopular decisions, governments dont make unpopular decisions becuz of the PC media backlash these days as they are less likely to get voted in for another term. - Ill give you a good example Harvey Norman is relatively unpopular for good reason but no one can deny he is making loads of money.
Unlike the US we have a FAR more socialist outlook in Australia - weather people like it or not Socialism equals poor money management and wasting loads of money on ideal that dont make money
Since when should a government 'make' money?
If they are making money they are either under providing services or over charging on taxes (or both)'make' money might be to simplistic but the government should run the country to allow business and citizen to thrive and make money. Instead the government strong arms its citizens with excessive taxation and hurts business with excessive regulation thus the country cannot improve its GDP per ca-pita without artificially improving it with high immigration
Take away mining Australia would be bankrupt and whilst we have mining we should be reinvesting money into our future - our politicians invest it into there own pockets
Their only solution to 'fixing' economic issues is with infrastructure spending - The ENTIRE ASX is smaller then Microsoft or Apple individually this means when mining drys up we're in trouble becuz handful of companies Australia doesnt have much to offer….that is a MASSIVE problem
Remember how Howard wasted the mining boom of the 90s?? Where's all the investment to show from that? That's right, middle class welfare.
Remember how the rest of the world got a recession in 2008 but under Labor we were the only developed country to avoid recession.
What are your thoughts on this?
We avoided a recession what about it? our economy have been vastly out performed by countries that were hit hardest by the GFC since 2008 - so i would say the government at the time and governments since have done a poor job?
We also only avoided a recession because of a mining boom at the time…. but the media will spin it a different way.
I dont blame Rudd and Swan for the way the handled 2008 as i dont blame Scott Morrision and Josh how they have handled 2020 - but avoided short term pain with hand outs is just going to result in long term problems - Every dollar you handout needs to be paid back in someway shape or form with a lot of interest.
You are so close. Guess what changed in the meantime? Liberals are in power and now recession…
@deme: our economic growth was moving at continental drift speed prior to COVID… we had ALP and NLP administrations in since 2008 nether has fixed a number of issue we had. COVID pulled us into recession - are werent the only ones…
My OPINION: Malcolm Turnbull was probably the worst PM in my life time but as a Victorian Dan Andrews it probably the worst State Premier we have had in Victorian history.
The issue isnt ALP or NLP it is about the Policies the parties are pushing - Bill Shorten Lost an unlosable election becuz all his Policies we far left rubbish.
Funny enough Scomo is going to win the next election due to 4 years of Center-left wing junk - how times have changed
Are politicians good economic managers? Yes, but only if it benefits themselves or friends/family.
Bruz?
Depends on what you think good economic management is. If you think importing people to do work and stuffing up the vaccine rollout which has hamstrung the country especially with the Delta variant out and about then sure they are good at managing that.
Property investors love them because mUh nEgAtIvE gEaRinG!
We need more Asians in government, Asians get shit done. Look at how Singapore and South Korea grew their economies in 50 years. Convicts could never do the same job.
The burden of proof is on them, and despite all of their chest-beating I'm yet to see a modicum of evidence. They target the simpleton's mindset of "no debt is good" (spoiler: it isn't; a nation's finances do not operate like a household budget), and even then they couldn't achieve this pre-COVID. They went out back to check on the carcass of the horse that is our public services, and tried to flog it one last time to find something else to sell off and realised they've nothing left to sell.
I know this is not the case, but I would not blame anyone for believing the LNP's Modus Operandi over the past 20 years has been to abuse quick sources of cash to prop up the budget (i.e selling public assets, high immigration influx) whilst focusing their efforts on improving the wealth of themselves (e.g property market) and their mates (dodgy deals, tax breaks, jobs after office etc).
Don’t forget the billion$ of dollars of waste by the LNP in not building full fibre NBN from the start
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-starts-contracting-out…
It’s unfortunate that old people (= ignorance) get such a significant say (voting) in something their withering cerebrums struggle to grasp the purpose of
Look at the massive costs to the economy from their short term penny pinching on Covid vaccines
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-13/sydney-covid-lockdown…The reason the LNP want a less informed populace (with their Murdoch enablers) is because it results in more votes for them
Ozbargain is full of nutters(Lefties and Greenies) by the look of it
They're only good at convincing the punters that they're the better economic managers.