Which Builder Would You Select Given Similar Quotes, Different Company Profiles and Inclusions?

AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 12:56
Last edited 23/06/2021 - 15:20 by 1 other user

TL;DR: Two similar priced quotations for a house. One is relatively young company with better inclusions (~25$k worth more than the other) - Grandeur homes. Other is more established, but with less inclusions - Orbit homes. Who would build with?

Longe version:
We purchased a land (in SE VIC) and looking to build a 26sq house with four beds, lounge, alfresco and a butler’s kitchen. We obtained multiple quotes and finally narrowed it down to two quotes, one from Orbit homes and the other from Grandeur homes. Both quotes are very similar in price, however, the inclusions are very different, so are the company profiles. Please find the differences tabulated below.

For Orbit homes

Orbit Homes Grandeur Homes
25-year structural warranty 7-year structural warranty
A 40-year-old company Only 7 years
Product review: 4.6 out of 246 5.0 out of 19

For Grandeur homes

Orbit Homes Grandeur Homes
2590mm Ceiling height 2700mm Ceiling height
Ducted heating and evaporative cooling Refrigerated cooling and heating
Batten lights to bedrooms Down lights throughout
Concrete roof tiles Colourbond roof
Up to H2 class slab inc. rock removal & bored piers Up to P class slab inc. rock removal & bored piers
Cat 1 tiles and carpets Cat 2 tiles and carpets
ILIVE appliances Bosch appliances

Other inclusions are similar, but generally Grandeur offerrings are slightly better (Cat 2).

To summarise, Grandeur offer better inclusions than Orbit homes. However, Orbit were in business for far longer. The difference of inclusions comes to around $25k. If we decide to go with Grandeur homes, thinking of hiring a professional inspector for every stage of the build.

Who would you go with and why?

Poll Options expired

  • 35
    Grandeur Homes
  • 11
    Orbit Homes
Home & Garden

Comments

  • mreddie on 23/06/2021 - 13:05

    I think it's Tom DeLonge

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 13:25

      Had to look up who that is :D

  • brendanm on 23/06/2021 - 13:29
    +6

    The ceiling height and ducted AC will make a big difference.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:41

      Yeah, that's why I considered Grandeur. What I'm not sure about is whether that upgrade worth it compared to the risk of going with a small builder.

      • brendanm on 23/06/2021 - 16:20
        +2

        I think it would be, only downside is the shorter structural warranty, though that's probably not worth the paper it's written on anyway. They probably all use the same tradies anyway.

        • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 11:56

          The warranty is the one thing I worried though. When you say it's not worth it, did you mean they don't fulfill their obligations or structural defects are rere?
          Will be using an independent inspector at every stage of the build to make sure it's upto the standards.

  • Ocker on 23/06/2021 - 13:46
    +1

    Depending on the other homes in the area a colourbond roof could look out of place.
    Difference in costing for cooling/heating would be the refrigerated option is about $12,000 value.
    Depending on personal preference downlights may be better.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:43

      Never thought of colourbond roof will look out of place, but this is not something I specifically looked at before. Thanks for pointing out.
      Definitely downlights for me.

      • Stopback on 23/06/2021 - 15:45
        -1

        Downlights look nicer, but cost more in energy use, its a hole in your roof.

      • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:49

        They do. But planning to have solar in the future.
        If I could, I'd even have a biogas plant. But everything is bloody expensive.

      • whiteflame on 23/06/2021 - 16:12

        Do some research on the differences in term of thermal capacities of metal roofs and concrete roofs. It then comes down whether or not you are a summer person or winter person. Obviously insulation is another layer to the feel.

  • ihbh on 23/06/2021 - 14:03
    +3

    butler’s kitchen

    Do you think this fad will last?

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:46

      TBH, I don't really know. Wife wanted it to reduce the spread of food smell. We only included one cooktop and it's in the butler's.

      • afoveht on 23/06/2021 - 19:11
        +3

        Having extra space is great but what I've been seeing lately is ridiculous. Dishwasher in the pantry - so now you gotta unload from there and carry the plates and cutlery back to the kitchen when unloading - nice. Not. You say cooktop in the pantry now - wtf is the kitchen for anymore? How you gonna talk to your friends and family while you cook? In the pantry?

        • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 11:35

          What we have seen in displays are crazy, went to one yesterday with three kitchens with all the appliances!

          Our butler's is right next to the kitchen floor plan. The butler's was extended by around 300mm outwards to get more space. So, given the requirements we thought it's good compromise to make, may be not.

      • MrBear on 24/06/2021 - 14:05
        +4

        The cooktop in the butlers pantry? Unusual, I certainly wouldn't have that.

        My take on the butlers pantry is that it is a place for storage of counter top appliances (mixers, blenders, etc.), normal pantry food items, storage containers, etc and possibly a sink. The actual kitchen is used for cooking (oven, stove, sink, dishwasher).

        ^^^ just my personal opinion

        • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 11:37

          Yeah, I thought the same and now having second thoughts about our kitchen/butler's configuration.

        • afoveht on 25/06/2021 - 14:17
          +2

          storage of counter top appliances

          This.

          I don't have a Butler's pantry but my laundry comes off the kitchen and has a long countertop for keeping all the crap I don't want on the kitchen counters - Vitamix, processor, toaster, sodastream, etc. plus cupboard space for less frequently used things such as extra crockery for parties, etc. It was an accident of design but ended up working great and if I ever built again I would repeat this configuration - off the kitchen, one counter for kitcheny things, another for laundry things.

      • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 11:30

        I know this is somewhat of an odd thing to do. The reason for doing this is to prevent food smell from dispersing through out the house as our food is aromatic (Sri Lanakan).

        From our visits to the display houses, we are under thr impression that there are multiple verisons of pantry/butler's.
        1. Pantry/Walk in pantry where you only have shelves
        2. Butler's pantry with shelves/cupboards, benchtop and a sink
        3. Butler's kitchen with shelves/cupboards, benchtop, sink, cooktop and oven

        Our current setup is: dishwasher, sink and microwave in the main kitchen. Cooktop, oven, rangehood and a smaller sink in the butler's. The butler's is right next to the kitchen and we thought it's a good compromise to make. But having second thoughts now!

        We plan to live here around 8-10 years. So, I understand that from a point of view of selling, a cooktop in the main kitchen is more desirable than the current setup.

  • Thiefsie on 23/06/2021 - 14:10
    +2

    Grandeur.
    Cooling and ceiling heights are a big one. Is the refrigerated ducted or just hung on the wall?
    Warranty not so much a factor honestly. They're all built relatively cheaply. Most problems should present within 7 years. If the builder goes under their warranty insurance likely will still cover problems.
    Roof selection is personal preference.
    Batten lights are the bare minimum. You will need to get a sparky to replace these.
    P sites are worse (more expensive) than H2.
    Bosch stuff is fine, albeit all brands (including Miele) have crappier low-spec offerings now built in alternate factories to profit off their brand recognition.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:53
      +1

      It's ducted.
      As far as I know, 7 years is the minimum and it's the industry standard. So, this is some relief. But will do more research on this.
      Not decided on the roofing yet, but it'll be definitely downlights for me.
      The land is in South East VIC and judging by experiences of others who built closer to our land, it's not that worse. So, H2 should cover it.
      Have some Bosh appliances currently and can't fault them.

  • Traveller107 on 23/06/2021 - 15:02
    +4

    In the current environment when builders are hitting delays sourcing material and trades I would chose the bigger builder.

    This is based on a friends recent experience with a smaller builder who made every promise to have the property ready before Christmas 2021 and the moment contacted was signed sent an email the very next morning saying due to delays in procuring material and trades their prices are going up by 35% and there will be delays. Called to find out why and how all this happened overnight the moment contract was signed. Were told it is what it is and no refunds etc. Needless to say I put my friend in touch with our solicitor who managed to claw the deposit back after threatening the builder with legal action.

    Their next call was to the biggest build who were respectful, transparent and upfront about their timeline. Did a complete fixed price contract with free upgrades. When our friends went to see the progress in the new subdivision they realised all the houses with the big builders are running on schedule at lockup stage and the ones with the smaller new builder haven't even had their slabs down yet!

    When the market is on fire it's best to choose experience and reliability over the cheaper price. Also the long warranty would matter depending on the soil and development type. Cheers

    • Thiefsie on 23/06/2021 - 15:52
      +1

      All domestic building contracts require a cooling off period and generally you should probably only sign a fixed price contract, meaning the builders are more exposed to the pricing problems going on at the moment regarding materials as opposed to the owner. Wouldn't take a lawyer to get that back but understand the threat would be required!

      That said, plenty of unscrupulus builders out there taking advantage of the average persons ignorance.

      Any decent contract will have terms to get the builder to finish on time also, even in the current climate, which may extend the overall length of the build within reason.

      Get a lawyer to review the contract = money well spent.

      • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:57

        Yeah agreed, hiring a lawyer is the safest move.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:55

      35%?? :-o
      I can't even imagine the stress this will cause.

      This is not something I thought about. Thank you.
      As per their sales consultant (whom can be hardly trusted anyway), they build around 200-250 homes in a year. So, they are not that small.

    • AFOS on 23/06/2021 - 18:16
      +1

      This. I can tell first hand that the cost of building materials jumped significantly. It's not only the costs but also availability. This is worldwide problem at the moment.

      Relevant article (there more of them if you search):
      https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/builders-are-goi…

      I anticipate for some builders to go belly up because they may fail to deliver on a budgeted costs. So, the contract may not be of much help in case of bankruptcy.

      • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 22:54

        After reading the original comment by Traveller107, I did some research and this is something to be concerened about.

        • Traveller107 on 24/06/2021 - 01:41
          +1

          Oh I forgot to mention that building and construction is an industry where no builder will get genuine 5 on 5 stars for ALL their reviews. Be wary if they have a dozen odd reviews and they are ALL 5 star.
          Read a bit more on how many small builders are having trouble sourcing material and tradespeople and some claiming bankruptcy despite the hot market just coz it's the easier option for them at the moment. Do your due diligence and it'll help you make a safe good decision :)

          • AMelbournian on 26/06/2021 - 21:17

            @Traveller107: Apparently, they are not that small. They have build neary 250 homes during this financial year.
            But, your point on reviews is spot on :)

  • Euphemistic on 23/06/2021 - 15:19
    +1

    Don’t know about the other stuff, but go with the higher ceiling.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 15:57

      Thanks, it looks way nicer. But adds to the energy bill though.

  • Bisah1342 on 23/06/2021 - 17:54
    +3

    Older builder for sure. Do keep in mind, most volume builders are dogshit and build quality (at least in Melbourne) has decreased significantly since 2000's, early 2010's etc.

    For reference, I built a very "nice" Metricon house with bells & whistles and tbh, a year on, it's really not the best quality (fittings, finishings, paint etc).

    Also keep in mind, if it's a contract 'price' of 600k, add about 20-25% contingency due to shit c**t builders, random delays (COVID) etc.

    just my 2cents.

    • AMelbournian on 23/06/2021 - 22:51

      Thank you, appreciate your input and I definitely agree on the decrease of build quality.

  • JIMB0 on 24/06/2021 - 06:06
    +3

    Why not pay the extra and get Orbit to build the same house as the other company?

    • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 10:41

      Simply because those upgrades are expensive (at least around $20k) with and it'll be over our budget.

  • backpaqer on 24/06/2021 - 10:53
    +4

    Get onto the Facebook group "My Efficient Electric Home" and look at other options regarding ducted stuff and gas stuff.
    40 years vs 7 years not that big a difference…if they're still in business and doing well after 7 years, then they can't be too bad. Note: we built with a young company (<7 years) and they were absolutely fantastic…but they tried to grow their business too fast and went belly up due to cashflow issues about a year after our house was complete. Might want to ask them if they have any expansion/growth plans.

    Colorbond over tiles…every time. The higher ceiling is great for installing ceiling fans too. You want split AC to your main living area (not ducted) and ceiling fans in bedrooms.
    If you can get any gas appliances out of the equation and go 100% electric that will save you one set of utility fees (~$300 a year).
    It is worth biting the bullet and pushing the finances to splash on things like 100% double glazed windows all round (doors too if they have glass), R6 insulation in ceiling, R2.5 in external walls. Get the house beyond 7.5 stars and it is super comfortable in summer and winter without chewing tonnes of power to heat/cool it. Induction cooking is vastly superior to gas, faster heat control, more precise heat control and it boils water 2x+ the speed of the best gas burners without any toxic emissions inside your house (apart from your cooking ;) )

    House stages are inspected by 100% independent professionals anyway. If you're using a construction loan to build, the bank will be insisting on this anyway - if you're not using a construction loan, use one anyway…the extra paperwork and oversight by the financial institution to protect their asset (and your ass) is just another level of protection and confidence and you're only paying interest on the drawn down amount at any given time anyway.

    • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 10:53

      Thanks for the insights. Just out of curiosity, did you have any warranty claims after the builder went bankrupt? If so, what is the procedure here?

      Leaning towards concrete roof tiles due their insulation properties. Isn't 100% set on that though. Lot is facing west and all windows are double glazed. The entertainer door and two sliding doors (there two rooms in the back and these doors open to the backyard) are just low-E. Induction cooking is great, but my wife likes to use clay pots. So, that's a no go. Will look in to ceiling insulation, external walls are R2.5 already.

      Yeah, agreed on the points raised on financial institution making sure of a quality build. But have heard some horror stories as well. I'll be using my own private inspector as well regardless of the builder.

  • robbyjones on 24/06/2021 - 14:20
    +1

    I'd go with the established builder and the 25 year warranty every day of the week. Warranty is not an issue - until it's 7 years and 6 months and you have big structural issues.
    Ask the established builder to quote on the uprgrades you would like and go from there. Just be really truthful with yourself on what upgrades you really want rather than what would be nice.
    Colourbond roofs are loud when it rains!

    • backpaqer on 24/06/2021 - 20:41
      +1

      Structural issues are very very uncommon. If the house is going to fall down it will do it within the first 7 years. My house is coming up to 7 years - solid as a rock. Structural warranty is obviously different to builders warranty…best to do your homework and understand the main claims and the expensive claims that can occur. Despite being told we were only allowed to be onsite when accompanied by the project manager, I was over there every single day taking photos of everything…so glad I did, it highlighted that the waterproofing in the bathrooms was not up to code despite being certified and signed off. Both bathrooms had to be torn back to slab and studs and redone. $60k worth of work. Builder had gone under by this stage, but the builders insurance came into play and we got them fixed way better than if the builder had been around to fix it.

      I hear you about the rain…we love the noise. But massive hailstones don't put great big holes in tin like they do to tile.

      • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 10:57

        I plan to visit the site regularly as well. Grandeur has a clause mentioning that any unauthorised access to the site will result in upto $500 panelty though 😁

    • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 10:55

      Warranty is the one thing that bothers me as well. Having said that, a proper inspection by and independent party should be able to catch these during the construction, right?

      Those inclusions are at least $20k upgrade from them. That's a no go 😒

      Yeah, leaning towards concrete roof tiles.

  • TheBilly on 24/06/2021 - 15:18
    +1

    I’m not sure how big these builders are but to throw in some support for small builders.

    I think the issue of going with a big builder for stability and security is fake. I think you can have a good experience with any sized builder or a bad experience it just depends on how well you select and who you go with. For example; Metricon one of the biggest builders have a disgruntled owners page on Facebook with 5000 members. I’m sure there are small builders with bad reputations as well.

    I’m a small builder (building 2 houses at the moment). A lot of people think that during a time of turmoil like now (timber shortage, steel price rises, general delays) that a small builder can’t cope - it is actually the opposite and a small builder can cope much better because you have way more flexibility.

    Big builders usually work on a production line and they have a set way of doing things and if any issues arise this affects their entire production line from front to back.

    There are some major builders in Sydney at the moment that have effectively halted their construction projects or they are quoting people 1 year before they can even consider starting.

    Pretty much as a small builder every issue COVID has displayed I have been able to overcome because the decisions and processes lie with me.

    For example; there is a timber shortage. Most big builders are competing for a limited supply as they use prefabricated frame and truss companies and can’t just change the way they build, it HAS to be prefab as any other method cannot cope with their demand. In my case 6 month wait for prefab? I just redesigned the timber frame and cut onsite. Similarly instead of using certain timber sizes and types that are out of stock I changed and redesigned to timber sizes that were in stock.

    Carpenters are also hard to find nowadays and are in short supply nobody was willing to do the job. So I just hired skilled labour to get over my hump and built it myself with them doing the heavy lifting. Big builders have to subcontract due to high quantity and labour demand.

    Bricklayers are in short supply, so I called in an old favour from a friend. Big companies just have to join the que for the companies that service them. They have rigid contracts in place and they can’t just shift on a whim.

    List can go on.

    • backpaqer on 24/06/2021 - 20:48
      +1

      Volume builders are not as flexible. Our builder was telling us about Porter Davis homes and their inability to step a design down a slope. If you have a sloping block they will either dig it in or build it out. We had two new houses go in behind us. One bespoke and stepped down the hill and looks great. The other a PD…level with the street front and level all the way to the 5m x 5m back yard (duplex…so both sides had postage stamp backyards)…but these backyards were also nearly 2m BELOW the back deck and level with the top of their rear fence. So…a "pit" for your backyard! Yuck! They then had to extend the rear fence up another 2 metres due to the overlooking issue (they probably didn't want to be having stare-off competitons with our housing commission neighbours in their backyard.

      • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 11:01

        We omitted Poter Davis from our short listed builders when we saw a floor tile crack in one of their displays.

    • AMelbournian on 25/06/2021 - 10:59

      Thank you very much for the first hand insights.
      I asked about this supply issue and the representative told me they are just under week behind at thr moment and evry thing is under control. They have build just under 250 homes this year. If it's true, it's good. If not, I'll be doomed.

  • AMelbournian on 26/06/2021 - 21:19

    Finally we decided to go with Grandeur Homes!
    Will probably update this thread if anything goes wrong. It might at least help someone else.

  • mkhafzal on 04/07/2022 - 01:39

    Hi,
    I was just going through your thread about deciding between Orbit or Grandeur homes and found that you had chosen Grandeur homes.
    I'm in a process to finalize a builder and Grandeur homes is one of the top builder I'm considering.

    Can you please advise about your ongoing experience with them? This might help me to make a decision, thanks.

    • AMelbournian on 07/07/2022 - 21:15

      Hey, sorry for the late reply.
      So, this journey has been difficult to say the least. Their communication is appalling at best. We did our internal colour selection (which they allocated only three hours) and still haven’t received the full quotations for our upgrade, though the council approvals will be here within this month.
      It’s true that their inclusions are better than the other builders I checked. However, if you can’t live with few months of delays (Orbit had guaranteed site start date in late November for us), and appalling communication, I don’t recommend them.

      • alteclan on 15/05/2023 - 17:52

        Interesting thread, so in a hindsight you would have chosen Orbit?

        • AMelbournian on 15/05/2023 - 19:40
          +1

          Well, it's hard to say to be honest given that it's alternate history.
          The site supervisor we got is a top bloke and made up for most of the terrible experiences we had initially. We are currently at completion stage and expect handover in the next 6-8 weeks. We are happy with most of the trades, except for the electrician perhaps.
          Could things have been better? Of course!
          But at least they didn't go under!

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