40km/h for sports grounds?

• 

  bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 15:03

  +7

  There's got to be a balance between the convenience of using a motor vehicle and the safety of pedestrians. 0km/h is actually the safest speed for pedestrians, but we can't have that for obvious reasons. While injuries and deaths are tragic, we have to accept that as long as there's two-tonne machines going at a speed that can harm a body made of tissue and bones, there's going to be injuries and deaths. It's about what is an (for lack of a better term) acceptable amount (as a society) and what is not.

  The government harps on about "towards zero" by constantly lowering the speed limits, but we know that zero injuries/deaths is not a realistic target. We've had the default limits go from 60/km/h, then 50, then 40 and now the same people have been trying to push for 30km/h. I have no doubt that once they get their wish (Melbourne CBD already has 30km/h limits), they'll then push for 20km/h. When does it stop? Lowering the speed limit is just an easy and cheap way out. They could build fences around certain footpaths around the venues to prevent people from randomly crossing. They could also educate people on road safety. Pedestrians should not be relying on drivers to look out for their safety. The amount of people who I see that just randomly cross the road while staring down at their phone or listening to music and being completely oblivious to what's around them is just shocking.

  People need to take responsibility for themselves as well.

  • 

    jjjaar on 19/06/2021 - 15:18

    +1

    0km/h is actually the safest speed for pedestrians, but we can't have that for obvious reasons.

    In many places around the world they have introduced car exclusion zones around schools. Usually for an hour in the AM and PM.

    The area of the zone depends on the jurisdiction, but at a minimum it is all streets around the school, and in some cases up to 500m (local access out of the zone is permitted, but no travel solely within the zone)

    This has worked very well to remove cars from the streets, improve pedestrian safety and ultimately increase walking and cycling to and from schools. People are no longer driving their kids 200-500m to the school because they can’t.

    Because of the lack of cars and improved safety, parents are not more likely to allow their children to get to and from school alone.

    The first I heard about this was in Edinburgh who trialled it around I think 6 schools, but then kept it in place around those schools and then expanded it to other schools. It has now been trialled and kept in other parts of Scotland and the UK.

    It has also recently been trialled in Melbourne up to 200m around Brunswick East PS.

    So we actually can have 0km/hr. And maybe we should be doing it more.

    We've had the default limits go from 60/km/h, then 50, then 40 and now the same people have been trying to push for 30km/h. I have no doubt that once they get their wish (Melbourne CBD already has 30km/h limits)

    Melbourne CBD’s “little streets” are now 20km/hr shared zones, where pedestrians have right of way.

    Also - lowering the limit is not just about stopping people getting hit. It’s about the damage that can be done if someone is hit.

    Being hit at:
    * 90km/hr is similar to falling from a 10 storey building
    * 70km/hr is similar to falling from a 6 storey building
    * 50km/hr is similar to falling from a 3 storey building
    * 30km/hr is similar to falling from a 1 storey building.

    Though the impact of being hit by a 4wd/larger car is worse as they are higher up from the ground and the impact zone tends to hit the torso, so where all of our vital organs are.

    • 

      bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 15:26

      +1

      So we actually can have 0km/hr.

      I believe that would be called "closing the road". lol.

      I actually saw a letter to parents from a school in Sydney where they're "trialling" that. Realistically, I think it'll just move the "accident zone" further away from the school out to around the edge of the road closures. (The only difference might be that, as you get further away from the school, the less concentrated the children would be. But that may not make much of a difference if most of the students head towards a particular train station or bus stop after school though).

      Melbourne CBD’s “little streets” are now 20km/hr shared zones, where pedestrians have right of way.

      You're right, some of those have been reduced to 20km/h - they've also narrowed those streets further by drawing a line out as a "bike lane". Giving pedestrians "right of way" isn't necessarily a good thing. It could have the reverse effect and make them more complacent.

      Also - lowering the limit is not just about stopping people getting hit.

      You're right about that too - but the council has openly said that the further reduction in speed limits is actually to discourage people from driving into the city. No mention of road safety.

      • 

        Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 16:49

        +1

        the further reduction in speed limits is actually to discourage people from driving into the city.

        And what is wrong with that? Provided they offer other means of travel reducing the number of cars in built up areas isn’t dumb. Offerring more work from ‘mobile’ opportunities, decentralising etc all mean reducing the number of people that need to go to these built up areas meaning less cars also.

        • 

          bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 18:39

          +1

          @Euphemistic:

          And what is wrong with that?

          Because they've been using pedestrian safety as the excuse for the constant reduction of speed limits all these years. Instead of helping businesses in the CBD, they'll end up limiting the amount of business coming in. Rather than come up with these stupid ideas to hamper movement within the CBD, they could be offering incentives for those that come in on public transport etc. Our government keeps insisting on using the "stick" method instead of the "rewards" method. If they offer options to make it easy to get in and around the CBD, people will naturally lean in that direction.

          With the recent covid activities and lockdowns, the council basically got their wish and it seems lots of people have realised they can stay within their local areas. You'd think that Melbourne Council would be happy but, wait, they're now spending millions trying to "revive" the CBD.

          Don't get me wrong, I live right in the middle of the CBD and it'll be beneficial for me if there's less cars on the road because it'll mean that I can get in and out of my place easier. But the livelihood of the CBD is the reason I moved in here and I'd like to keep it that way.

          Provided they offer other means of travel….

          And ^ ^ this ^ ^ is the problem right there!

• 

  [Deactivated] on 19/06/2021 - 15:03

  +1

  Not my job to worry about your kid's safety.

  • 

    Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 16:50

    -4

    Not me yours. But they make a mess of the paintwork when you hit them and it’s a mile of paperwork.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 19/06/2021 - 15:14

  +4

  Might as well ban all cars. Oh wait, mum/dad gotta drop their kid off in tank/trucks.

• 

  djones145 on 19/06/2021 - 15:23

  should also consider tutoring places, library, play centres, childcare, supermarkets, parks, homes, cafes, beaches, stadiums, music classes, art centres lots of kids around there…. where do u stop

  guess close to everywhere

  I have kids and I would want people to drive slow cause they like to run everywhere, but I drill it into then to hold hands all the time near cars

  where do u stop

  • 

    Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 15:35

    -2

    guess close to everywhere

    That’s a typical response. You don’t need to close everything. We are so conditioned that cars are the only way we’ve forgotten that not killing kids and pedestrians is a good idea. Making t safer is a rational goal.

    where do u stop

    When automated cars are infallible and motorised traffic doesn’t get close to people.

• 

  Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 15:39

  -2

  interesting poll response to so far. Parents must take responsibility with a massive lead.

  My major concern is for kids of an age where they have learnt the road rules etc so get a bit of free reign but aren’t old enough to occasionally forget about traffic and aren’t old enough to judge the speed of a car. Yes, train kids well, but allow for some mistakes like chasing a ball onto the road.

• 

  pegaxs on 19/06/2021 - 16:08

  -2

  No point. Arseholes Karens and Kevins can't do the right thing in school zones, what makes you think they would give a flying (fropanity) around sporting areas?

  The biggest problem is breaking the "(fropanity) you, my kids are safe in my car, so I don't give a (fropanity) about your kids." attitude most of these inconsiderate entitled arseholes have to road safety.

  It will take the death if a celebrity's or politician's child and some "Brown bell bottoms for Bella" campaign before anything even looks like changing.

  Nice idea, impossible to implement.

  • 

    Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 16:37

    -1

    Arseholes Karens and Kevins can't do the right thing in school zones, what makes you think they would give a flying (fropanity) around sporting areas?

    True enough. To paraphrase ‘But it’s not about the speed limit. It’s about sending a message’. Getting a few of those Karens and Kevins stick behind someone who has slowed down for safety may not be a bad thing.

    The biggest problem is breaking the "(fropanity) you, my kids are safe in my car, so I don't give a (fropanity) about your kids." attitude most of these inconsiderate entitled arseholes have to road safety.

    That’s the whole thing about road safety messages. ‘Im safe in my steel cage, get the hell out of my way’ is a massive problem. Ever seen that Disney cartoon, motor mania? https://youtu.be/UEwJrzxhIv0 it’s not a new problem.

    We have been increasing speeds for decades prioritising motorised travel. Not only that modern lifestyle creates a need to rush. It’s time to roll it back a bit. I see lowering speed limits, except for major arterial roads, as inevitable purely because we can’t be trusted to drive at current speeds.

    End of the day, whenever they reduce a speed limit for safety it only takes a short while to adjust. We either recognise the speed limit is just lower reflecting that actual average speed we travel or we learnt to allow a smidgen more travel time.

    Slower traffic creates more liveable areas. Less noise, less pollution, fewer rat runners. It gets more pleasant to be outside.

    • 

      bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 18:54

      We have been increasing speeds for decades…

      Have we reeeeally? lol

      • 

        Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 19:05

        +1

        When cars first started out they were slow and you couldn’t drive fast because roads were terrible. We’ve spent billions building motorways and arterial roads largely so we can travel further to work - in a rush.

        Speed limits climbed to suit the prevailing traffic speeds brought on by faster cars. This was to allow faster travel.

        Increases in main road speed changes your perception of slow and safe in built up areas.

        Of course, speed cameras and congestion are slowing actual speeds in many areas, BT we’ve still built the ideal of travelling at the maximum speed limit at all times into our culture. Combine this with or rushed lives where we’ve trained ourselves to get from A-B in the minimum time and lose our minds when we get two red lights and makes us 30sec slower. This is why so many people get stroppy behind learners or other slow drivers, because there is a perception of ‘you are slowing me down’.

        • 

          bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 20:44

          @Euphemistic: The speed limits woud've climbed at the very beginning, but for the last few decades, all I recall is the reduction of speed limits - except for the motorways.

          • 

            Euphemistic on 19/06/2021 - 20:47

            @bobbified: You are right the last 30 years they e started dropping some limits for safety. Decades before that speeds were increasing.

            I keep forgetting the 90s are actually a long time ago now. Doesn’t seem that long.

            • 

              bobbified on 19/06/2021 - 20:48

              +1

              @Euphemistic:

              Doesn’t seem that long.

              I know… I actually had to think about it for a second and realised… "damn, I'm old!" LOL!

• 

  [Deactivated] on 21/06/2021 - 13:05

  Most speed limits are ignored on the weekends, and weekdays, so why bother?
  I hate getting tailgated, run off the road or out of my lane, by a55h0l3s wanting to do 80+ in a 70 zone.
  50KpH is safe when people go 50, not 70+.