Hail damage repair issues years later. What to do?

• 

  MS Paint on 30/03/2021 - 17:06

  +1

  What colour is the car?

  I'm going to guess red or a darkish blue?

  Maybe pay a reputable panel beater to review and give their opinion.

• 

  RockyRaccoon on 30/03/2021 - 17:09

  Well we still have in the family a 2004 Corolla metallic red and clear coat (I suspect) (bought new) and only been polished twice in its life, and the paint looks like new except for a few scratches and scrapes (on the sides only). BTW its been in and out of cover at various stages of its life, in fact the back head rests have faded but not the paint

  You need a professional opinion - eg RAC

  • 

    JimmyF on 30/03/2021 - 17:42

    +2

    Comparing Toyota paint to Mazda paint, is like comparing chalk to cheese!

    Mazda back during the timeframe of the OP car was shocking.

    • 

      tissue on 31/03/2021 - 08:21

      Yep. Car would have been in the era of the Mazda wet-paint (3 layers of water-borne paint) which they changed after ~10 years to the new aqua-tech paint. Talk to any smash repairer and the factory Mazda paint is extremely thin, which is what you get from applying by robot I guess.

      Sounds like this could have been more of an issue for the insurer-applied clear coat failing - possibly not being bonded to the paint below it? Inadequate prep in cutting back the factory clear? Dunno.

• 

  mapax on 30/03/2021 - 17:10

  +7

  My neighbour has a similar vintage Mazda 3, it has never been hail damaged but also has bad clear coat. It’s peeling around the rear roof, the upper hatch, and a bit on the bonnet bonut.

  • 

    JimmyF on 30/03/2021 - 17:43

    Yes Mazda from this time period had shocking paint!! OP just needs to have a look around the shopping center carpark.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 30/03/2021 - 18:01

    Cheers. Could you do me a favour and see what their headlights, the top of the mirrors and bumpers look like? Normally cars with faded roofs also have blurred over/ opaque headlights and the top of the mirrors, rear bumper dealt the same fate. Will be interesting to compare.

    Hers are still perfectly clear and everything that wasn't repaired is still perfect. Ie. the plastic flexed over a long distance from hail impact damage, but the metal just creased / cracked the clear. The glass was smashed, so it was full on hail.

    Her friend has the exact same model/ year car with a dark grey metallic paint (even worse). They have no carport. No paint issues.

    • 

      mapax on 30/03/2021 - 19:00

      I’ll have a look in the morning. From memory the tops of the mirrors are ok, no idea about the headlights though.

    • 

      mapax on 31/03/2021 - 12:43

      +1

      I was wrong about the bonnet, the clear looks ok except where there is a scratch. Mirrors and bumpers look ok. Headlights have covers on them, lights are ok, covers are slightly clouded but it’s just as likely dirt on the inside.
      The rear 1/4 of the roof has a small amount of clear that has bubbled and will flake soon, the rear pillars close to the roof are flaked bad.

      • 

        tunzafun001 on 31/03/2021 - 14:39

        Cheers mate, much appreciated. The covers generally don't get sun damaged at all. It's the lights behind that aren't up to the Aussie sun and fade. Her friends covers are mint, the headlights shot (but no damage to the paint at all, and thats a dark grey metallic). If the clear has bubbled, then that means it has cracked/ flexed for some reason. Don't really see a reason for the bonnet not to be the same. Thanks again.

• 

  mini2 on 30/03/2021 - 17:13

  Read your insurance PDS and see what's the appeal/arbitration process is.

• 

  holdenmg on 30/03/2021 - 17:13

  Hi,

  If you are in the RAA, I know they do https://www.raa.com.au/motor/motoring-services/vehicle-inspe…

  That said, they also state "Crash repair inspections - Body and paint from $250 (Member price)
  Please note: This inspection does not include an x-ray of structural components for defects or measure the thickness of paint. After the inspection, you’ll get a written report.

  Problem is, years ago, it probably looked OK.

  I'm thinking thickness of paint or uniformity may be what you want an assessment of.

  Anyhow, you could phone them on 82024688, I'm sure they would pass you on to someone who can assist.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 30/03/2021 - 18:05

    Yeah, I'd like someone to measure the thickness of the clear flakes that are coming off. I've painted a dozen cars in various different lacquers in my life and I' very confident the clear coat chipping off is far too thin. Even then, is that Mazda's fault, or the person who did the polish after the PDR. However, since the damage is only on the repaired areas of the car, I thought it was pretty straight forward…apparently not.

• 

  redvaldez on 30/03/2021 - 17:29

  +3

  They then also sanded back the clear (as it was lumpy) and I believe went too far.

  That's very unusual for the clear to be sanded back. I've had PDR done a few times (not for hail damage) and there was no sanding involved. The only thing I can think of - if the panels were sanded back but not re-painted - were that they were wetsanding it to get some scratches out, and it was then polished? If done properly it shouldn't have made an appreciable difference in the life of the paint. Alternatively if it was a defect from new, I couldn't see that the insurer would be charitable enough to pay for the panels to be wetsanded. Something doesn't sound quite right there to me.

  • 

    apsilon on 30/03/2021 - 18:05

    This. There's no sanding done during PDR. If the finish was lumpy it was because the metal was rippled and sanding would achieve nothing so something doesn't add up. If for some reason it was sanded and went through the clear the issue would've shown up before now.

    You could pay a smash repairer for an opinion but most aren't going want to get involved as insurers feed them business. Maybe a pro detailer? Or skip trying to get proof and just go to the ombudsman and make a complaint.

    • 

      tunzafun001 on 30/03/2021 - 18:19

      +1

      I'm know expert, but have a few clues, (I did a basic panel repair trade course back in 2000 and painted around dozen cars since). None of them have issues (dark blue metalic, silver, black, red metallic, orange metallic and a few whites). When we picked it up (supposedly 'finished') I would call the appearance 'crazed'. They then took it back and 'fixed it'. To me this could only be fixed by either sanding it back, or respraying. They all claim PDR is indeed paintless, so I would have to assume it was sanded. The flakes that are coming off are super thin, and I can see a few rust spots in the colour coat. In my pleb opinion, the dents were too sharp for PDR. As for time frame, this has been going on for a while (started as classic breached clear coat bubbling). We moved house 2 years ago, then rona hit…missus has been putting it off. The car is constantly under cover though, so it should really be like new (as are the headlights). I could re paint it myself, but don't have the time, nor feel it's my issue since we have paid for insurance and they are the ones who insisted on it being PDR from the start.

      • 

        apsilon on 30/03/2021 - 18:47

        When we picked it up (supposedly 'finished') I would call the appearance 'crazed'. They then took it back and 'fixed it'.

        It's possible it was sanded then but more likely it was just heavily polished. Either way, if the clear coat was compromised during the repair it would've shown up within a couple of years easily, not 7 years (if it's been going on for 2 years). As for how thick the paint should be (you should know this if you've done a course), hard to say but around 80 microns would be in the ball park, and that's total for primer, colour and clear so yes, the flaking clear would be ultra thin.

        • 

          tunzafun001 on 31/03/2021 - 14:53

          @apsilon: Cheers. I spoke with the assessor today and they didn't use a micrometer at all. So no quantitative data on the paint whatsoever. I questioned this for a valid assessment of this nature. Either way, the areas with the most damage have distinct lines that follow the contours. I said the sun doesn't do this, nor would a Mazda factory robot. If it was a Ferrari it might get some human sanding / polishing, but not a Mazda. 100% proof that someone has sanded these panels at some stage (and they look aged, so you cant say I did it just for the claim).

          As for the time frame, the car is under cover all day, and all night. We live inland Australia and not uncommon to receive zero rain for 8 months at a time, and there is virtually no humidity. These are prefect areas for training for Mars missions. Even a car without clear would probably last 10 years in these conditions. Either way, we saw it looking crazed as soon as they did the repair, we refused to take it, so they 'fixed it'. No doubt blocked back and then polished so you cant see the craze lines. Was told if anything happens, it will be fixed / covered for life…and here we are.

          His response was that the colour coat should also be damaged. But I know the flexibility of a 3 year old clear coat is very different to that of a colour base. It's very nature has to be harder, which means brittle. That being said, in the worse effected areas, the colour coat has also blistered.

          Anyway, he didn't agree that clear coats (from 2007) aren't as flexible as base coats. So looking for data sheets (showing max flex values) on 2007 vintage base coats and clears. Any ideas where to find them. Extra cudos if I can find the paint Mazda use (but it also depends on how much plasticiser they added).

          • 

            apsilon on 31/03/2021 - 15:09

            @tunzafun001:

            So looking for data sheets (showing max flex values) on 2007 vintage base coats and clears.

            I don't think that info is actually measured as it would differ depending on how the paint was mixed. You could try contacting PPG customer service. It's probably not their paint but if they don't measure it, I doubt other manufacturers do either.

            Have you owned the car from new? Possibly been resprayed before you owned it? A thickness gauge would show it up easily as resprayed areas are usually several times thicker than factory paint.

            • 

              tunzafun001 on 31/03/2021 - 15:23

              @apsilon: Cheers mate for the info. Will shoot PPG an email. Yep, owned it from brand new. The clear coat on the vehicle crease lines looks very suss to me (and these are the areas most likely to not be repairable by PDR). So I wouldn't be surprised if they attempted to clear over the top on these areas. Which doesn't work. As you say, paint thickness will tell the story.

• 

  AndyC1 on 30/03/2021 - 18:06

  +1

  On TV car repair shows there is a device that can measure how thick the paint is. Maybe worth trying. Another option is to go into a smash repair place and let them know the background and if there is anything they can do to help.

• 

  spackbace on 30/03/2021 - 18:16

  I wonder if insurance would look to write off the car, if you pressed them on fixing the paint…? Redbook puts a Mazda 3 Maxx auto at $4,000-$5,600 (private sale), and I'm sure it's insured for a similar amount. If they priced up a respray, they could very well just go "too expensive, we're keeping your car, here's some cash instead", leaving your sister on the hunt for a new car.

  Read your PDS regarding the lifetime cover on repairs before you push them too hard to fix it.

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 30/03/2021 - 18:26

    Yeah, we'd be happy to take the cash. She (partner, not my sister…i'll leave those jokes aside) is looking to trade it in. But it looks terrible. The reality is it would 100% be a write-off. She has owned it since new, always been under cover, interior, lights etc all perfect, always serviced and only has 98 000km on it. It would be a dream for a dealer who would get their boys to respray it out the back. If we can get the shortfall covered that she would lose as a trade in right now, we'd be happy. I'd recon the dealer would knock $2k off for the paint situation.

• 

  pharkurnell on 30/03/2021 - 18:46

  +1

  we had 2011 ish manual Mazda 3 - and were offered 1000-1100 for it with no paint peeling, only a few shopping trolley dents and just on 100k klms.on an ASX.

  Dont bother fighting you'll get nothing for it anyway they are also dime a dozen inc gst

  • 

    tunzafun001 on 30/03/2021 - 18:56

    Just looked up a Mazda 3 Neo sport auto on Redbook. Says 3 - 5.4k (average of 195k kms). So she is at half of those kms. Just thinking back to the rusty ole Holden Camera i was looking at for $3k back when I got my licence. Kids these days get so much better cars for their buck.

    • 

      pharkurnell on 30/03/2021 - 19:00

      Good luck gettin 3k for it as a trade in - but that would depend on what your trading on.

• 

  Euphemistic on 31/03/2021 - 12:01

  Plenty of 2007 cars around with peeling clear coat. It could be just the factory paint.

  I’m not storied the insurer has rejected your claim. It’s last for 10years, which is probably what they call a lifetime anyway. Can you prove the spots that chipped first were in the dented areas?

  If you’ve experience spray painting, why don’t you rub it back a bit and give it a coat or 2 of clear and then sell.

• 

  tunzafun001 on 31/03/2021 - 15:18

  Update.

  So the consensus is Mazda clear coats are indeed rubbish. They cheaped out and maybe didn't put enough plasticiser (flexing agent) in there paints. However, the bumpers and mirrors (being plastic) may have had more plasticiser added and are an indication why they haven't diminished at the same rate as the metal.

  Therefore, it isn't the sun that is to blame direct, it is about the flexion. Otherwise the mirrors and bumpers facing the sun should be equally faded.

  So I have proposed that PDR isn't a suitable repair method for Mazda vehicles with a clear coat that have sustained hail damage. Which I did say when the repair was done from the start, but we were forced to use the PDR (pop up tent operation in the town as well to add injury to insult).