$850 Unpaid Rego Fine

Hi guys,

Last night my sister got pulled over and fined $850 for a 50 day expired registration. It seems her registration bill was being sent to an email at a previous place of employment that wasn't forwarded on.
Obviously this is her fault for (a) not thinking to change her email address (or not sending it to a private address to begin with), and (b) not realising that she hadn't paid for a rego refresh 2 months later than she normally would have.
However these do seem like minor oversights and an $850 fine seems pretty severe, when you get a lesser fine for doing >30km/h over the limit.

She's 39 years old, has paid rego on time since she was 18 years old, has a pretty clean driving record and ironically she works as a volunteer driving instructor for disadvantaged youths.
I'm just wondering if you guys think there's any merit in contesting it (or asking for a reduced fine)?

Edit: New information has come in.
She'd opted out of postal mail notification, and was just receiving email reminders/payment information, which she was set to receive in her personal mail.
As a driving instructor you have to put down your instructor details down when the kids go for their tests. Because of this, her previous employer had set all of that to their business details, including email, which is where her rego would have been sent.
As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

Comments

          • -1

            @ToastySteve: Her car could of become a hypervelocity missile and crashed into the Opera House.
            Imagine the damage bill.
            OP should be counting his stars lucky that didn't happen!
            Thats why you need CTP!

            • @Ti-au: CTP wouldn't cover damage to the Opera House…

  • +4
    • Super helpful mate thanks. We're QLD based, so I was googling for that. I imagine the same would apply up here.

  • +1

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/vehicle-registration/renewi…
    Driving an unregistered vehicle is illegal and carries heavy penalties.

    50 days is lot of days for driving without CTP and vehicle with unknown road worthy status. Fortunately, not involved in an accident.
    Past driving history will not help here for asking for a reduced fine.
    Pay fine ASAP and set a reminder for next rego expiry.

    • +1

      In Queensland (as I and OP are located), we don’t have to do yearly roadworthy inspections (I know - insanity)

  • +3

    Hi,

    It is probably worth your Sister checking with her Insurer that she is covered if using her car (even as an unpaid volunteer) to teach others, particularly if they are Driving.

    • +2

      As a volunteer driving instructor I would be surprised if her insurance covers more than the normal (as in if you're teaching your own 17 year old kid).

      I would think whatever organisation she volunteers at would require them to have their own insurance.

    • Thanks mate. She's paid the rego today so insured once more. As people were saying, she's fortunate she didn't have a crash in that time.

  • +6

    Don't all states have a reminder system now you can sign up for.. ?

    FWIW - I'd have been happier to have paid $5 extra for a rego sticker if it was an option… specially those who drive different work vehicles daily…. who knows when it runs out.

    • +1

      VicRoads do, i get SMS & Email notifications

    • +2

      You can stick your own tag inside the window with the rego due date on it just like some car service places do.
      I always remember when mine is due because I dread paying out all that money every May :-(

    • +2

      Not that I have seen in NSW. The only option that is you can add licenses to the NSW services app and if you do then you can look at the license details yourself.

      In NSW you can also look up a license plate to see what it's status is.

      So if your in NSW you have a few ways to check if the rego is current.

      • Google is your friend on this one :)

        The Service NSW App
        Download the Service NSW app for your Phone today

        App features:
        * Registration renewal reminder – set a reminder for when your next NSW vehicle registration renewal is due.

        • +1

          Only works when you run the app, so not really a reminder IMHO.

          • @AndyC1: Which right now is multiple times a day to check in everywhere we go!

          • @AndyC1: wow…
            lol.

            Go Government.

    • +1

      We just get an email in QLD. Makes me wonder how the elderly and IT inept are getting by. (she doesn't really have this excuse as she's reasonably tech savvy).

      • I get my notice in the mail.

    • +3

      NSW sends out LOTS of reminders. The usual renewal notice in the mail 6 weeks before. A reminder email 2 weeks before. They also send several SMS's in the days just before expiry. The CTP companies are also sending out their renewal notices. I really don't understand how people can miss all these.

      My email and phone number are registered with the NSW RMS and Services NSW which probably makes it so much easier for me. People don't seem to like to give their details to the government but are totally OK with giving all their details to some online shopping group or online competition on facebook.

  • +1

    Also, previous employer would have likely killed the email address upon exit of the employee

  • +11

    I actually had the (almost) same thing happen - I had paid the CTP and somehow forgot to pay the rego. I got stopped by the police, as they apparently have some camera system onboard that obviously reads your plates on the road and then flags it to them. The officer was nice enough to let me off because he could see I had obviously paid the expensive part, no prior traffic issues, etc but he made sure i paid it on the side of the road before I left. Needless to say, I am extremely cautious about making sure it is up to date for both of our cars

    Anyways, my point is, i totally empathise at how these sort of things can be missed by complete accident. I sometimes forget that noone on Ozbargain has ever made a mistake before, it must be pretty tiring to be that perfect!

    Isn't there usually a "Contest fine" option? I don't think it is worth going to court over, I don't think you'll ever win, but usually the 1st stage is a written contesting

    • +1

      Thanks for the empathy JK. This is more in line with my thinking, and a breath of fresh air from the "She's a dirtbag and needs pay!"
      I probably shouldn't have written anything about taking it to court, i just have little knowledge of how these things work. If there's an avenue that you can plead guilty on paper that definitely sounds like a go. We'll do some research.

  • +6

    1) It would've been sent to her home address as well, In big letters it states this is your first and final notice and you have a month to pay it. So really she's had the renewal notice for almost 3 months. It's not the state's responsibility to update her change of details its hers. (at least in WA)

    2) Driving un-regoed is not as innocent as it sounds and had she hit and significantly injured another person it would've gone down terribly - hence the high fine fee.

    3) I'm yet to meet someone who doesn't know the month (or thereabouts) when their rego is due, surely it would've set some alarm bells off.

    • Fair points mate. Maybe not no.3, I wouldn't have a clue when my rego is due until I get that email.

      • +4

        you can start paying attention to things in your life from now on, not just rego. Makes you more mature.

        • Thanks mate, sound advice for everyone.

        • FYI some people pay their rego in 3 or 6 month periods making it more difficult to just remember when it's due every year.

          • @Castcore: That's why you set a reminder in your calendar on your phone …

            • @kerfuffle: Yeah that's what most people would do. Drakesy was saying they hadn't met anyone who didn't know roughly what month it was due. Well there you go, not everyone has a single month.
              Edit: removed unnecessary dig from my comment lol

            • @kerfuffle: 85 year olds whipping out google calendar.
              oh yeah!

              btw can you help my mum with google calendar - pm your number and I will send it to her. Cheers.

          • @Castcore: In Queensland (where OP is based) you can even pay monthly.

      • @OP

        just google "free rego check" , pick the state authority relevant to you. type in registration of vehicle = done. now you know.

    • On point 1 if you subscribe to email notifications you don’t receive a postal notification, period. (This is in QLD, where OP is based)

  • How many other States use emailed rego papers. AFAIK NSW still sends rego papers via the postal mail which is a reminder.

    • I've just asked her this. I'm pretty sure we still get mail reminders in QLD too, so not sure what's happened there.
      Watch this space.

      • you definitely do, I have a QLD registered car and I get a letter a month or two out and then another one much closer to the time

        • Not true - if you’ve signed up to email notifications you will not receive anything via post from TMR. I also have a QLD registered car which fell due in December 2020 - I received an email around 6 weeks before expiry, then another on the day it was due. Nothing via post

          • @jackary: I am not signed up for email notifications, so wouldn't know. But I do receive them in the mail.

            • @[Deactivated]: Sure but OP is so your comment isn’t really relevant to them

    • In NSW, if you've signed up for a ServiceNSW account, you get emailed papers, several SMS messages, emails and push notifications from the app. You've really got to go out of your way to not notice.

  • +2

    Happened to me years ago. Drove my mum's car and got fined. She didn't know when it expires and was waiting for something in the mail to remind her. So I had to pay the rego on the spot to keep driving the car and later also had to pay the fine.
    There was a mix up at vicroads and we received a letter from them apologising. This was forwarded to the police but unfortunately rejected. It is your responsibility to know and check rego regardless of who's car you're driving.
    FYI all highway patrol cars will have multiple cameras on the roof to scan for plates automatically.

    pay your fine and move on. I just gotta own up to my mistake of not checking my mum's car.

    • +3

      Savage.

    • +3

      Yeah I got pulled over by a patrol car in peak hour traffic a couple of years ago when I didn't realise my rego expired. (Long story, wife took my mail by mistake and renewal notice was sitting under a pile of her stuff). Pretty embarrassing…

      They explained to me that the fines are so high to deter people from driving for extended periods unregistered and then just paying for registration if caught, and using the "oops I forgot" defence. I tried asking for a warning but they wouldn't budge.

      Protip - apply for payment via instalments - I got mine spread over 12 months or something.
      Protip - while you are at it, get her to sign up for quarterly rego payments - much easier than a lump sum, and make it direct debit so she never forgets again.

    • I have seen a lot of people who have been caught out driving someone else's car that was unregistered. Although it seems harsh, people have to check if they are driving a registered car (which you can check online).

      It was easier when the stickers were on the windscreen, but I guess you can check this now with a smartphone.

      It it was not your car, then you would likely get some sympathy from a court and get a reduced fine, although it is not a given and I am speaking from a Victorian perspective.

  • Contest every fine , whats the harm in writing a letter , I wouldnt be going to court over it though . If they waiver fines for good driving record for speeding/parking I reckon its worth a shot for this .

    • +1

      Contest

      On what basis?

      • +1

        On everything OP wrote and what I mentioned , she's not a lawyer doesnt need legal grounds just apologize, please let me off.

      • +2

        This seems like a good approach to me, if it can be done via letter.

        From https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/sites/www.legalaid.vic.gov.a…

        "If you plead guilty the magistrate treats your plea as a sign that you are co-operating and may give you a less severe penalty."

        • and may give you a less severe penalty

          but good chance you'll have to pay legal costs…

          • @jv: Thus my 'if it can be done via letter' caveat.
            As Deb said, the worst they can do is decline, right? (not rhetorical, genuine question)

            • +1

              @ToastySteve: Depends if it's done by the due date, or you risk an even bigger fine.

              • +1

                @jv: Definitely. Only happened last night and I've already got all of Ozbargain weighing in on it. The wheels are turning (bad pun intended).

        • "If you plead guilty the magistrate treats your plea as a sign that you are co-operating and may give you a less severe penalty."

          They may also impose a higher penalty, up to the legislated maximum. In this case, $10,640 (80 penalty units). Not likely, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.

          • -1

            @robberbutton: Zero magistrates are going to give $10,640 (80 penalty units).

            Magistrate don't want to get a bollocking from a Judge, who doesn't want to get a bollocking from a more senior judge, who doesn't want to get a bollocking from three judges, who doesn't want to get a bollocking from seven judges.

            hashtag: bollocking

            • @Ti-au:

              @robberbutton: Zero magistrates are going to give $10,640 (80 penalty units).

              I didn't suggest they would. Note the use of "up to". That's the point. A baseless defence could well end up with a penalty higher than the on the spot infringement. You can't argue that isn't possible.

    • I know a lawyer who does traffic matters in NSW.

      If you're a good driver with a good record (not many prior fines etc) and apologise, and ask for clemency, explaining the circumstances, you'll usually get a downgraded fine or even just a warning.

      These fines are meant for unqualified drivers who lose their licence due to reckless driving and still drive. That's not OP's situation, and the judgement can reflect that.

    • Good luck with "contesting every fine".

      When found guilty, you'll also be charged court costs. And if you have no legal basis for contesting the fine, other than because you want to… the magistrate will load you up with an even more expensive penalty for wasting the courts time.

      • UFO - did you actually read what I said ? " whats the harm in writing a letter , I wouldnt be going to court over it !"

        • Yep fair enough… i missed that part.

  • Renewal Notices are not digital - only the reminders are. Your sister still should have received a letter in the mail with her rego/ ability for notice of disposal/ etc (The Paper with Yellow/ Black/ White on it).

    She also should have been receiving notifications about her CTP/ Insurance expiring, and regardless, be getting her car (at a minimum) services annually, in particular, if it is older, will require a Pink slip as well to pass its roadworthy check.

    Pay the fine, be better.

    • +1

      Not sure what state you're from, but in QLD our renewal notices and billing process is 100% digital.
      CTP notices come in our renewal notices also, so that's no help.

      Pay the fine, be better.
      Second part of that sentence is pretty unnecessary and unhelpful.

      • Not sure what state you're from, but in QLD our renewal notices and billing process is 100% digital.

        Are you sure about this? Mine comes in the mail.

      • +1

        Ok my bad - I'm in NSW. I do know there are plans to Digitise them, but for now, it's all paper-based.

  • However these do seem like minor oversights

    Driving without insurance is in no way minor…

    What if she injured or killed someone? Could she afford to pay the claims?

    • patreon.com

      I do see your point.
      I was just surprised by the whole thing. I grew up more rural and the police were much more likely to give you a stern warning than slap a huge fine on you. The times are changing though, I guess.

    • +1

      A CTP insurer is appointed automatically under the SIRA scheme if there is no CTP policy in place.

      EDIT: This applies in NSW. Just realised OP is QLD based.

  • The $850 is to deter people from doing this, as she has been driving without registration, and therefore, and more importantly, any CTP insurance.

  • I'm just wondering if you guys think there's any merit in contesting it (or asking for a reduced fine)?

    Police would still try to enforce the fine. However the court might show leniency if you plead guilty and are able to prove that it will not be repeated. I have seen instances where court has let off red-light offenses. They might do it for rego as well.

    • Thanks Apple. From what others have said, it's a bit of a risk because you may end up having to pay court fines on top of. It sounds like if she can find a way to put that into a letter, it'll be the way to go.

      • Only if you plead not guilty and try to fight the fine, you will end up having a bigger fine. If you plead guilty you will not need to pay court fines.

    • court might show leniency if you plead guilty and are able to prove that it will not be repeated.

      Why would they do that?

      • I guess it depends on the mindset of whoever's passing judgement.
        If a well behaved child does something naughty that's clearly out of character, and they show remorse, do they still need punishment? If yes, then how lenient are you with the punishment?
        I don't know if that analogy parlays perfectly into this particular instance, but hopefully you see my reasoning.

        • -2

          I guess it depends on the mindset of whoever's passing judgement.

          Why? It should depend only on the legislation.

          • @jv: You need to watch 'The Castle'.
            The difference between the letter of the law, and the 'spirit' or 'intent' of the law is paramount in a functional society.
            I believe there should always be room for discretion by the powers that be.
            Technically every time you take your car out, you're supposed to check all your signals, brake lights, headlights etc. If you get pulled over for having a brake light out, will you be upset if the police let you off with a warning? What if you DID check all your lights when you left, and one blew out on the drive, then you got pulled up for it? If it should only depend on the legislation, there are going to be a lot of people getting a pretty raw deal.

            • +1

              @ToastySteve:

              You need to watch 'The Castle'.

              You realise that is fiction…

              • @jv: I do. The premise of the movie is built around Section 51 of the Australian constitution.

      • I have no idea, but I was at Melbourne court one day and did see about 10 fine dropped even when they pleaded guilty. Usual excuse, a student stressed about an exam and did not realise And went thru a red arrow, over speeding as someone was in hospital etc. the fines were dropped but the demerit points stays.

  • I would say be nice the stickers made your remember but, it's been so long since we got rid of stickers for rego I can't even remember when it was.

    Part of being an adult is being responsible the reminder is a courtesy, if you can't keep track of when rego ia yourself then you need to check your plat ever time before you drive.

    You could have:

    Put it in your calendar
    Diary
    Stick to fridge
    Apply your own sticker to the car

    Same with doing your tax if you forget that's your fault you are an adult.

  • Cant you just use a post it if you need a sticker

  • I've gotten my way out of most of my fines in life, but usually there was some sort of merit behind the excuse.

  • There was a post where someone got fined for just 1 day expired registration asking for leniency, they allowed.
    Later, there was another post where someone got fined for just 2 days expired registration asking for leniency, they allowed again.

    Now this is the 50th post…

    • 50 days might be a stretch, but given the explanation in my edited OP, maybe she'll get lucky.

  • I get my notices in the mail, then I get about 2 reminders on my email. I also get emails and text reminders from my CTP insurers. I also see it when I open my Services NSW app to do COVID check-in. Yet I still wait till the last minute to do it all in a rush.

  • Got the same fine in VIC 2 years ago. Rego expired by 3 days. $804 fine.

    Opted to go to court and plead guilty. 8 months later stood in front of the Magistrate, plead guilty, and got fine dismissed in under 60 seconds.

    YMMV. Last time I appeared in front of the Magistrate via WebEx in January this year for a $166 fine. He said I should’ve known better and reduced the fine to $100 instead.

  • +2

    Damn $850 is a lot of money. Especially as it's one that I could easily see myself getting wrong too. Sometimes life gets in the way and you miss paying a bill.

    Nothing to lose by writing a letter and citing the circumstances stated. Use to work back in the good ol days

    • +1

      Sometimes life gets in the way and you miss paying a bill.

      This is more than just missing paying a bill though, it results in being uninsured.

      • Just did some research into this, after reading another comment. Being uninsured really doesn't hurt as much as you'd think.
        Apparently MAIC covers that.
        https://maic.qld.gov.au/about/nominal-defendant/

        • +1

          Did you miss the bit about them recovering any payment made as a debt?

      • +1

        @ JV; how's the view from your high horse?

  • If you think $850 is too high then run for parliament and get it changed. Why should it be lowered just because of how you feel about it?

    Letting people select their own penalty would be rather self-defeating.

    • I'm not suggesting lowering the fine.
      I'm merely posing that given the unique circumstances, maybe she might be given a pass. I'm asking for the opinions of fellow Australians, particularly ones who have found themselves in similar situations.
      The only reason I mention the expense of the fine is to highlight that it's probably just too high to pay and forget about.$850 is a lot of money to charity workers.

      • Everyone’s circumstances are unique.

        The fact that it’s hard to forget about is also part of the point - so people don’t make the same mistake again.

    • -4

      If you think $850 is too high

      I'd rather they just do 6 months jail…
      That will keep them off the roads…

      • +4

        So you're proposing The State pay 6 months jail time, rather than receive $850?
        Jailing someone in Aus costs on average $292 a day. So we're talking a $53,290 cost here, all to keep a driving instructor off the road.

        This was an poorly conceived idea, even by jv standards.

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