Build Suggestions for Premiere Pro Computer

• 

  Heaps for Cheaps on 29/03/2021 - 12:26

  Will it really make a big difference?
  No. My gen3 NVME is never even close to being the bottleneck during Premiere Pro workloads. I do online editing with long-gop formats and it's always CPU that gets hammered first by a big margin, then GPU, but never have I had wished to get a faster drive than my NVME.

  • 

    tonydav on 29/03/2021 - 13:04

    Thanks. That was my gut feel.

    What CPU are you running?

    • 

      Heaps for Cheaps on 29/03/2021 - 16:32

      I am using a 9900k with 64GB of RAM and a 2tb 970 evo NVME for my main drive with a few internal SATA SSD's for projects I am actively working on. Even the most demanding multiple 4k sequence won't strain the Gen 3 NVME.

      I really would benefit from proxy workflows tbh, as I am editing a multi-stream 4k video that takes its toll, but otherwise the PC works flawlessly across 4k video (Panasonic GH5) , 360 video (GoPro Max), GoPro footage, Drone etc…

      I should also state that my only concern with video editing is the actual editing experience, so quick timeline scrubbing, smooth playback on the timeline, snappy performance generally… One thing I never compare is export time.

      Looking at your specs I would say you are going to be very happy with your editing experience.

• 

  Cheaplikethebird on 29/03/2021 - 12:47

  https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems…

  I always refer here if building an editing PC for someone.

  • 

    tonydav on 29/03/2021 - 13:03

    Thanks, I'll have a look.

• 

  TheBird on 29/03/2021 - 13:33

  I do a reasonable amount of processing in Adobe Premiere Pro.

  If you explain what you do in PP (codecs, bitrate, resolution, workflow etc), it will really help with suggestions. The trick is to determine where the bottlenecks lie and go from there. The wider range of media you edit, the better system you will need.

  It'll also help to know in what order everything is important to you? Export speed, real time editing, effects, price, reliability, workflow and so on.

  I have heard that the Ryzen should perform very well for the encoding anyway.

  Unless Adobe has recoded their engine recently, this isn't accurate. The processing power of the first four cores will (for the most part, unless you want to throw inordinate sums of money for very little performance increase) usually determine performance cap.

  I used to design systems for PP a couple of years back. PP is a really fickle piece of software when it comes to system requirements and efficiency of hardware utilisation.

  • 

    tonydav on 29/03/2021 - 13:49

    Predominately kids sporting events. Baseball games and the like. Sometimes 2 or 3 hours long, recorded in 4K although I generally export in HD.

    In reality the system works quite well. It can take several hours to export a video and in the past this has been fine. Lately though I've been finding the system lags even in normal use, and if PP is doing an export in the background it's not fun at all. I think the issue is that it's all just getting too old, hence I think I should upgrade it, and ideally make it work well with PP as a bonus.

    My thoughts now are to get a gen3 M2 drive, use that for OS etc, use one of the SSDs I already have for media, scratch etc and the 8TB for long term storage. Keep the GPU and maybe upgrade in the future, but probably not in the short term.

    • 

      TheBird on 29/03/2021 - 15:04

      Predominately kids sporting events. Baseball games and the like. Sometimes 2 or 3 hours long, recorded in 4K although I generally export in HD.

      TLDR: I'd bet changing your workflow will get you more benefit than a new computer.

      What codec, bitrate and workflow. Are you using a CPU bound long-gop codec like h264/h265 or an individual frame format, like Cineform/ProRes/DNxHD. Do you use a proxy workflow or are you one of those inexperienced people who try to edit 4k natively and want real time results? Those kinds of questions are going to be needed to determine what you need.

      If you're using low bitrate media, then a a basic mechanical drive is going to be lying idle most of the time, so an M2 won't really help but lighten your wallet. Go into your computers resources monitor and see what's up. You'll probably find your HDD running at 20-30%, if not less. While you're there, check your CPU and Video card too. Most of the time, you'll find the video card will have a load of maybe 8%. If it's running high, you might be up for a video card upgrade, but this is unlikely with PP, but if you're using Cineform, a better video card will definitely help with the performance.

      My guess, you're using gopro level footage, so your bottleneck will likely lie in your CPU (i7 4770 is really slow) and maybe even your video card. I'd say the CPU is most definitely a bottleneck. Upgrading to one of the new CPUs (Ryzen/10700k) should get you about a 25% boost in CPU performance in PP due to the way that PP uses multiple cores. It's not as much as most people believe. Then tell Adobe to only use 4 or 6 cores, so the rest of your computer would be usable.

      You should be running your OS a separate SSD, your scratch drive on another SSD (or even an M2) and then get the appropriate drive suitable for the media you're using. Some media requires media systems faster than an SSD can provide. Doing kids sports, you're not going to be using one, but they're out there.

      That being said… If you're looking for a massive performance upgrade from new hardware, you'll need to switch software, to something like Davinci Resolve or Avid. Those two use mutliple cores much more efficiently. Note: Resolve will want a beefy video card too. Systems that professionals use to edit native media at 4k cost as much as a half decent new car.

      That all being said… Is it just the exports that's causing you grief? If that's the case, tell Adobe to not use one of your cores so you can still use your computer… or export overnight when you're not using the machine. If it's not the export, another option is to transcode the footage to Cineform or 1080p or use a proxy workflow. Exports, depending on what media you're exporting to, will still suck.

      Edit: Actually, thinking about it. If you're exporting in HD, just record in HD. That's the easiest way to solve your issue.

      I'm thinking something like the Crucial P2 1TB drive. Around $130. An extra 50% for the next level up - is it worth it?

      It could, but it's highly unlikely it'll make a difference.

      • 

        tonydav on 30/03/2021 - 08:42

        So I ended up finding an Evo 970 Plus 500GB at a good price. Realistically this makes more sense than a 1TB if I'm only using it for the OS.

        I'll stick with the best 1TB SSD from my existing system for my "video" drive.

        More importantly I'll take on board some of your suggestions. I'm only a hacker at this sort of thing, not a pro and no intention of being one. I do enjoy it though and like the results. I won't change from Premiere Pro as although not an expert I have become reasonably proficient with it. I also use my kids edu account to access it for free - at least until the youngest leaves school in around 6 years. I may change products then as it certainly isn't cheap.

        I had a look at DaVinci Resolve and it looks very good and the price is excellent. What is the learning curve like when moving from PP?

        The reason I'm recording in 4K is I tend to record the entire field and then zoom into certain areas. E.g. the pitchers action up close. I've recorded in HD but the result from 4K is much better in these situations.

        Very much appreciate your detailed response.

        • 

          TheBird on 30/03/2021 - 11:38

          @tonydav:

          I had a look at DaVinci Resolve and it looks very good and the price is excellent. What is the learning curve like when moving from PP?

          The learning curve on Resolve isn't too bad, but I find it extremely clunky. It depends on how proficient you are with PP and how much you know about the whole process of professional level filmmaking. Resolve was originally a color grading program. When Blackmagic bought the software, shortly after they started adding editing features (and later on, sound features) to it.

          Resolve is getting better over time, but in my opinion, it's not as good as Avid or PP yet. Avid has a very steep learning curve. It's designed with a multiuser, professional editing workflow in mind.

          If you're outputting in HD, I believe you can use the free version of Resolve, but don't quote me on that one. You may need the paid version just to use UHD footage.

          Bit rate: 1533 kbps Data rate: 95931 kbps

          There's no way that a M2 drive would remove a bottleneck over a SSD for this footage. There's a small chance it's your GPU, but I'd say you've hit a CPU bottleneck with your footage/workflow.

          I've cut 4k/5k footage with significantly higher bitrate than yours on a system that was a fraction of what you're using (old i5, 16gig ram, 2gig video card). When you're dealing with footage that pushes the limits of machines, workflow is everything.

          For the footage you're using, one thing you have to understand, the h264 codec is designed to be a delivery codec. While you can do it, it's not supposed to be used for editing. It puts a lot of strain on the CPU due to how the codec works. For your system, you'll find Cineform to be one of the best codec you can work with. It's available for free from GoPro. From memory, it won't help you with exporting (I believe it's still cpu bound when you're exporting) but when you're editing, it'll feel like you're cutting through your footage like butter with a hot knife. It's one of the few codecs that allows the system to offload some of the workload to the GPU… at least while you're editing. Word of warning… It'll use a lot of hdd space.

          How much ram do you have in your current machine?

          Very much appreciate your detailed response.

          My pleasure. Sorry it's so complex.

          System setup for editing is always contextual. I've seen many people think that the $5k they drop on a system that they should be able to edit 4k easily. Professional suits can easily cost over 10 times that price and can still struggle with the wrong footage/workflow combination.

          One last thing. If you do look at getting a new system, I suggest you stick with Intel/Nvidia combinations. I don't know if it's improved in the last couple of years, but Adobe always had random stability issues that seemed more pronounced on AMD hardware. It was a common call I'd get: "Hey, I got a problem. My rig is crashing." "Is your rig an AMD?" "Yeah, how did you know?" You do pay more for your hardware up front, but it's a small price to pay to avoid days of bug hunting/problem solving in the future. I found Intel x700k systems to be the best bang for buck/stability for PP.

          • 

            tonydav on 30/03/2021 - 12:52

            @TheBird: In my current system I'm maxed out at 32GB. Definitely needs more but not able to increase it.

            From what you say about Resolve I think I'll stick with PP for now. I'm certainly no expert but I do like how many guide videos are out there. Plus at the moment it's essentially free for me anyway.

            I've got a Ryzen 9 3900X on order - hopefully no issues as I can't change now! I'll still with NVidia for the video card.

            When I get the camera back from my son I'll have a look at what output settings there are. I assume this is what I should be changing for editing before exporting in H264 at the end?

            Looking at my second video camera - an old Panasonic Lumix - I get options for AVCHD and MP4 for output.

            Looking at the Note10+ under recording options it has "High efficiency videos" ticked. Which says it's HEVC format. No other options apart from resolution.

            • 

              TheBird on 31/03/2021 - 02:11

              @tonydav:

              In my current system I'm maxed out at 32GB.

              That's heaps for PP. 16gb is usually more than what anyone needs. It's usually Avid that needs massive amounts of ram. Resolve to a lesser extent.

              When I get the camera back from my son I'll have a look at what output settings there are. I assume this is what I should be changing for editing before exporting in H264 at the end?

              There aren't a lot of cameras that don't cost a fortune that can record to formats that are friendly for editing. The functions are often limited to professional cameras with the cheap ones costing $10k+.

              If you have the opions choose either Cineform, ProRes or DNxHD (The HD will be different depending on the output resolution). Raw is a different beast all together. Avoid that one. It'll make your life harder than it needs to be. It'll capture better pictures, but they will look less saturated and need color grading.

              I get options for AVCHD and MP4 for output.

              I'd suggest avoiding AVCHD. It's a repackaged h264 that can be unpredictable in PP. Sometimes versions it can read it, some it cannot. Mp4 is typically vanilla h264. Between those two options, mp4 is the best of the two bad choices.

              Which says it's HEVC format.

              This is the worst of all formats for editing performance. It's h265. It's designed to be a delivery codec for UHD. You can use it in other resolutions. It's like h264 with extra features that cause smaller files, but makes the CPU work much harder for it. For computers to even play this format without having a heart attack, it needs specific some hardware specific chips that's only available in certain hardware (Don't quote me, but I think it's NVidia 10+ series video cards or maybe Intel gen 7+ CPU). I've edited h265 test footage once. Was the worst thing I've ever come across.

              I'd rather have a dozen Karen clients than work natively with h265…. if that puts it into perspective.

              If you're including footage from your Note 10+, this could be the cause of a lot of your grief.

              Put it like this.

              Driving your car around a race track on a nice day. That'll be like editing with a codec like Cineform, ProRes or DNxHD. It'll fly as fast as you can take it. (in editing, the hard drive often becomes the bottle neck with these codecs and high bitrates)

              Now throw in a cm or two of water on the track. You can do it, but you'll go slower. That's h264 (MP4).

              Now imagine you're driving through 3 foot of water. At best it'll struggle. That's h265 (HEVC).

              I'm not exactly a car person, so I'm not sure if this is an accurate description. I don't know if a cm or two would slow down a car on a track.

              Ever notice when you're going backwards through the footage (or fast forward) is seems to struggle. That's due to how delivery formats encode the video. It's takes a lot more work for the computer to see it in reverse than forward. The more frames between the Iframes, the worse it gets. They help give you high quality media files with smaller sizes. The higher the bitrate, the more data the computer needs to sort through (hence why I asked about bitrate of your media).

              That all being said, last time I touched PP (about 2 years ago), Adobe had been promising an easier proxy workflow. For all I know, they may have sorted it out so it acts like Final cut did. Last time I did, PP only transcoded the audio on the fly and their transcoding workflow was horrible for beginners at best. Final cut made proxies in the background so you're automatically using lower end footage to edit and it'll only touch the original footage when exporting. That way, you don't need a high end machine to edit and it hid the complex stuff from the user. Adobe do things the way they want to do it.

              • 

                tonydav on 31/03/2021 - 09:34

                @TheBird:

                Now imagine you're driving through 3 foot of water. At best it'll struggle. That's h265 (HEVC).

                Not sure how accurate it is but it is funny and you've convinced me. I've turned this off on my phone. There is also an option for HDR10+ which I've left disabled.

                I'd suggest avoiding AVCHD. It's a repackaged h264 that can be unpredictable in PP. Sometimes versions it can read it, some it cannot. Mp4 is typically vanilla h264. Between those two options, mp4 is the best of the two bad choices.

                Changed this back to MP4 on that camera.

                I'm looking at the manual for the Sony AX53 and it says I have the following options:

                XAVC S (XAVC S format)
                - Video: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

                AVCHD (AVCHD format Ver.2.0 compatible)
                - Video: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

                MP4
                - Video: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

                Which would you suggest?

                To improve workflow would it make sense to re-encode these prior to doing work in PP?

                One other (unreleated to performance) question. I've been trying to find an easy way to have the score on the games. In the baseball game I recorded it was only 1-0 after 9 innings so not a lot of score changes, but I did need to update the innings 9 times. Overall, not that hard.

                E.g. here if you don't get what I mean: YoutubeBBGame

                But when I do a netball game the score changes. A lot. It was suggested that I should use After Effects for this. I've never used that. Don't mind playing with it and there are some templates that appear to do this. This one for example AfterEffectsTemplate. Not that expensive but I've got no idea if it will do what I want. As a bonus it looks a lot better than my basic text in the baseball game. Thoughts?

                • 

                  TheBird on 31/03/2021 - 18:39

                  @tonydav:

                  Which would you suggest?

                  Keep it simple. This should be the safest option: MP4 - Video: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

                  To improve workflow would it make sense to re-encode these prior to doing work in PP?

                  That's the simplest way to do it, and just export from the proxies. A typical professional workflow, you'd take a structure and have a program convert to the proxies, do your editing, export the edl (just an instruction list), send it on to the finisher who would color grade and input the audio mix, substitute in the originals and export from those originals. You're not going to be as worried about data loss from generations of reencoding, so just encode these before you work in PP would be what I'd do if I were you. It's really easier just not to work in 4k…

                  But when I do a netball game the score changes. A lot. It was suggested that I should use After Effects for this. I've never used that. Don't mind playing with it and there are some templates that appear to do this. This one for example AfterEffectsTemplate(videohive.net). Not that expensive but I've got no idea if it will do what I want. As a bonus it looks a lot better than my basic text in the baseball game. Thoughts?

                  In all honesty, after effects is often an overkill, especially if you're not familar with it. You could do it that way, but I'd go for an easier way first… a video overlay and keep your text on top of that. Think of it like a transparent PNG image file that just has the box around the score. Drag it on your timeline as another layer on your video track, resize to taste with your text on a layer on top of that one. Do a google search for "video thirds". It isn't exactly what you're describing, as video thirds are typically done at the bottom third of the screen where you put text/updates/names etc. There are video versions of these too. They tend to look decent and are relatively easy to implement.

                  This might look good for you?
                  Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmE635uwsA&ab_channel=333pi…
                  It ain't cheap, but $29usd mioght be worth it for you.

                  I'm not able to make graphics, so used to have to get anything special done by a graphic designers. I don't have an eye for it. I just bought some graphics, music and sound effect libraries to get me through when I was expected to have that kind of stuff. Story blocks is good value, but probably overkill for you.

                  That being said, it does depend on how the After Effects has been setup. Adobe were going to do better intergration of After Effects in PP, so there may be some template already included in PP to use.

                  Just don't get temped to edit in After Effects. If you thought you were having speed issues in PP, you'll learn what slow really means. It also has a very steep learning curve to those not used to it.

      • 

        tonydav on 30/03/2021 - 08:47

        Just looking at the "video properties" this is what I have. It's from a Sony video camera. Not here ATM so can't get the exact model. Prob about 3 years old.

        Codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) (avc1)
        Bit rate: 1533 kbps
        Data rate: 95931 kbps
        Dimension: 3840 x 2160
        Frame rate: 25 fps
        Sample rate: 48 kHz

        I also add-in footage from my Note 10plus. E.g. at a javelin meet I'll be in the stands and have the Sony zoomed in to see the close up of the actual throw and the Note recording the flight path.

        I also have another camera as well that only records HD but has a good zoom so sometimes I'll use this instead. That's normally the case in baseball games as they are a more static area to record.

  • 

    tonydav on 29/03/2021 - 14:09

    I'm thinking something like the Crucial P2 1TB drive. Around $130. An extra 50% for the next level up - is it worth it?

    Or put another way, what would you recommend?