thinking of buying a Kia Cerato GT (1.6L turbo).
Is this powerful enough to have fun at a track day? I have not been before so not looking to compete etc, just for fun.
1.6L Turbo Fast Enough to Take to a Track (Eastern Creek) ?
Daedalus on 27/03/2021 - 18:04
Comments
well yes and no….if it's too weak then it wont be as thrilling as a more powerful car….if it's too powerful, then I guess it can be a little too intimidating than thrilling….of course I guess that depends on the driver…and whether or not he can adapt and feel comfortable in.
Any car can be fun on a track. If it lacks power you’ll either max out on the straights with faster cars passing, or won’t hve enough acceleration to max out. One problem with it is that once you get on the track, you’ll want to be going faster like all he cars that keep passing you.
Handling is pretty important to enjoy cornering and braking.
Think of the added expenses and extra wear and tear on the car
Also consider what you actually want to use the car for in the long-term
No one really takes a car "stock" to the track. Brake/tyre upgrades etc, then power upgrades. Cerato doesn't exactly come across as one of those cars
Auto only kinda sucks for the track too
Back in the day, like 17 years ago, I had a Honda Jazz. I remember taking it to Wakefield Raceway down at Goulburn. It was totally stock, CVT of all things. Replaced the OEM tyres with some rubber that was said to be a bit more stickier. It was sooooo much fun because I had to exert every single kw out of that 1.5l vtec-yo, think at the end of the main straight it hit 170ish km/hr. I could only get around 5-6 laps out of the tyres before they were pretty screwed, but lucky we had around 5-6 sessions for the day (as we had 3 groups of cars, and cars were placed in similar groups, so I was in the slow class). I remember taking out all the car seats and spare wheel to reduce weight too :D Loads of fun. If I had a Ferrari, I think I'd be way to scared even at 40% of what it could do, but with the Jazz, at almost 100% it still felt pretty safe and fun.
FWIW i racked up 130k kms on that car in 4 years, didn't skip a beat, until it got written off by some drunk dick.
What do you mean in regards to the tyres? Surely a jazz couldn't destroy tyres in a few laps?
not at all destroyed, the rubber heats up / overheats to the point steering feels like mush … 1 warm up lap, 3-4 hot laps, and thats about it the tyre could do .. before it needed to cool down . remember they are street tyres, not slicks.
@TheMindsetTraveller: Many moons ago I loved dunlop formula R semi slicks for track days. Made a huge difference to the day. Phenomenal grip. The old Datsun 1600 took a while to destroy them. Twin 48mm Webers called for some fun times.
the Cerato has a dual-clutch auto with paddle shifters, that can be plenty fun on a track
lots of people take 'stock' cars to the track. nothing wrong with that. It also depends on what kind of stock car it is.
I thought MX5 was a fun track car, way under powered.
But very upgradeable, balanced chassis and more importantly it's rear wheel drive.
Driving skill over power of a vehicle for track use, unless OP taking it for quarter mile runs.
When I test drove one last year the suspension was a bit too stiff (on the street obviously), so that may be more suited to a track.
Having said that, how often are you doing track days? Should it really be a main consideration?
A Kia Cerato will over heat and go into limp mode before the lap is over.
Others already have made very valid points about power not governing how much fun you are going to have and wear and tear for consumables on the car.
I will add to that comment about taking 'stock' cars to a track day. Most road going passenger cars are not built with track days in mind. Therefore they are very likely to have issues with overheating. Tyres, brakes and engine. When any of these things overheat the amount of fun you can have at a track day is pretty much zero. The Kia Cerato doesn't strike me as a car that was engineered to manage the heat generated when being driven on the track. Look into something like a Hyundai i30N (2.0L turbo model not the 1.6L turbo N-line) and you will find out that they have engineered that car to withstand the track environment longer before things start to overheat and the fun is over.
Of course you can have fun with it. 308 GTi is a 1.6 turbo and it's a blast to drive.
Its not about power… its about how long it will take before you overcook the brakes….
Yes, hence the sand traps are useful :)
Nobody should be cooking the brakes if they are using the appropriate brake fluid for the temps (RBF600/660)
Only once i ran some Castrol Superdot 4 on a Golf R32 (fresh fluid change) , went on thinking oh its ok i won't be pushing the brakes that hard…after a couple of laps brake pedal started becoming pretty loose…i didn't know it at the time but the fluid was literally boiling and i had air in the lines.
Its not a nice feeling to have not knowing if you are going to be able to brake before the next corner so i had the handbrake at the ready on the next session out.
Thankfully i just took it easy for the rest of the day and i never had a repeat of the problem but i know if i was driving it like i stole it i would of had a really bad crash.
LPT for anyone reading this , if you going on track make sure you are using high-temp (racing) brake fluid and don't forget it is more Hygroscopic and will need to be changed in a years time.
So why did the brake fluid boil? Because the heat sinks (disc rotors) couldn't shed heat quickly enough.
You can also lose brakes if the pad material isn't appropriate for the application. I know my brake pads would tap out at around 300c but they are great for driving around the suburbs.
Genuinely could not tell you , the R32 has big brakes and when i got into the pits , the whole wheel hub assembly was scorching hot including the valve stem.
I could not even do my tyre pressures because of the heat buildup and had to wait 10 minutes for it to cool , everything in that area was hot to the touch and if you held onto anything for more then 3 seconds you would cop a burn.
It was interesting because it had slotted rotors as well , but apparently from my research on VW forums it was a common theme with the model when pushed on the track.
@[Deactivated]: The fluid never comes into heat contact with the rotors.
There's two sets of 'heat variables'.
Hot brake pads and hot rotors. This is safe.
I too have had extremely hot brakes and wheels on r32/33/34s… turn 1 wakefield park lol…
You can feel the heat while standing next to the front wheels!
The fluid systems is the lines and the master cyl. and the pistons front and rear. Brake fluid boiling is due to the low boil point of the <cheap> brake fluid or the water in it boiling due to it being compressed too much by you.
It depends on the track. A good example is turn 1 wakefield. You're going 180-200km/h to 40km/h hairpin every 1'30" or so… how's that going to work out?
@tonyjzx: @tonyjzx , it was at eastern creek at the time so nothing that i felt at the time would require you to be on the brakes much (track layout wise)
yeah i figured it was safe hence why i kept going but i was just shocked because i was using Castrol Performance Dot 4 React , i am not a huge "brand enthusiast" when it comes to products i tend to stick with products of known quality but on this occasion i didn't opt for RBF600/660 because i had felt it wasn't necessary and in hindsight it was a bad idea but i was glad i realized in time what was going on.
Apparently the React is rated as the following
Boiling Point (WET) 180°C
Boiling Point (DRY) 260°CThe RBF600 is rated for the following
boiling point 204 °C (WET) / 399 °F
boiling point 312 °C (DRY) / 594 °FI now run RBF660 as my go-to after that stint and figure it is more then up to task with the specs it puts out
boiling point (WET) 204 °C / 399 °F
boiling point (DRY) 328 °C / 622 °FNow looking at those figures closer together it does seem there is a substantial difference between all 3 products
i have not done wakefield yet but i can understand what you are trying to say.
@[Deactivated]: Slotted rotors don't really help with heat shedding. The slots are there to aid out-gassing of the pads and as a skim surface.
Did you add the Audi air diverters to the lower control arms? They help a bit.
Surprisingly, my shopping trolley Octavia has proper air ducts that direct air onto the rotors. Totally unnecessary for a family runabout.
@brad1-8tsi: @brad1-8tsi
Yeah that makes sense , RE: rotors
Nuh didn't add the air diverters because after the track day i relegated the Golf to street duties from here on out , i genuinely did not enjoy my track experience in it (brake issues aside). i am used to driving manual and whilst the DSG is fun …it loses its appeal rather quickly and when you approach the next bend even in sport mode with paddleshifting unless you are running a DSG tune it does not stay where you want it so there a miss-match in shifting applications arises.
If i can try to explain it the best way i can , it feels like the car is not consistent and there is that "disconnected" feeling that is ever so present. not sure if anyone feels the same with DSG/Twin Clutch cars but that was my take from it.
Cheers for the advice however.
torque ? bhp ?
That Hyundia turbo 1.6 has fairly low stats… 150kW 270Nm since they use it on heaps of models.
Again its fine… its more than fine compared to the avg. hoser compact car, but again, it'll be a case of how many laps before you fade the brakes.
lol
I reckon I could have fun at the track with a stock standard workvan.
I think it would take a lot of skill not to tip the darn thing over at the turns lol.
the ghost of Sabine Schmidt has entered the chat
I have done a couple of laps in a merc vito, its pretty funny
To answer your question OP , a Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ are not fast cars but according to this it is slightly faster. and if that is to be taken for any measure without reading the rest of the article , speaking from personal experience..in the hands of a confident driver with some practise… you can catch up to much faster cars in the corners and you can stay on their ass until they leave you for dead on the straight.
At my last track day at Luddenham i was genuinely impressed by how well those 86's/BRZs can corner and keep up , i was in a MK3 Ford Focus RS LE at the time so as soon as i hit the straight they were left for dead but a few corners later i would have those same cars right up my behind again.
Mind you that particular track is more so about technical cornering expertise if anything
Let me tell you its not always about how fast your car goes in a straight line , the fun is always in the corners … i would say as long as you use the appropriate tyre pressures and make sure you are using racing brake fluid and proper fully synthetic engine oil you should not have much drama. if you do decide to go send me a PM and i would be happy to join you and help you out on your first time.
1.6, what's that, two cylinder? It's a toy car. Go have fun, then toss it in the bin
???
Wow, tell us more about this 1.6 turbo V-twin Kia!I've had bigger cokes.
The Yaris GR says otherwise 😉
Formula Fords had 1.5s for decades. No bodywork to speak of tho.
I own a Cerato GT, great fun on the road with the 1.6t engine. The torque comes in quite quickly and the DCT is quite good during spirited driving, kind of sluggish in traffic when driving <25-30km/hr - only if stop / start.
I have put a custom 2.5" Cat Back exhaust on it (straight pipe) - it's actually quite loud and sounds great, DCT Farts from Gears 1 - 4 under medium to hard acceleration.
Handling is actually quite good - pretty sharp (have done some driving through nasho, out to Lithgow - Bells line of road - was fun). Not sure if it would be awesome on the track - I think it would be fun (definitely won't be the fastest).
I would suggest going down to a dealership and thrashing one around to see how it feels.
Brakes are not the best, definitely feel brake fade after a bit of spirited driving through the nashoo #Skrrrtt
I used to do car club super sprints (2 cars), sprints (1 car), hillclimbs, etc.
I had 3 cars in that time. A 1971 Ford Capri 1600 manual (stock and then I did some suspension work) then a 1979 VB Commodore 4.2 auto with a cam and lots of suspension work and finally a 1972 VW Superbug 1600 with a 2 barrel Dellorto carb. It had ~50kw at the crank
Hands down the VW was the most fun.
It's not about power.
I have a 1.75' Giulietta QV which is a blast to drive so I don't see why not as long as it handles well.
The amount of power has very little to do with how much fun you will have.