O365 Vs Gsuite Entry Tier for 5 Accounts, Which and Why Please

dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 07:55

Just migrated from included hosted pop3 mail to google workplace but our company relies heavily on chat/messaging. We were using facebook workplace chat which was great but now charging $4USD per user which is half as much as O365 with teams or Google with chats.

We've been using chats for all of January, but seems sub par and the biggest dilemma is a shared email only shows as one user so gets convoluted in chat.

I think with teams, I'll be able to make an account for any alias also. (I haven't seen this is possible in google chat)

If we're going to use teams after trialing it, should I just move email to microsoft too? Pros and cons? Don't need the office software, it is cheaper to buy annual cards.

Please don't say slack. It's great and all, but not suitable. The people that work here are dumb. They can work facebook, so workplace was great.

Internet

Comments

o53djz7qTPY4der on 11/02/2021 - 10:21

+1

The people that work here are dumb.

Never be the smartest person in the room.

Good leaders would implement solid PD and training for any new tools that were critical to business function.
dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 10:37

-1

Good leaders would implement solid PD and training for any new tools that were critical to business function.

Thanks so much for your input that is unrelated to the topic.

FWIW, I agree. I am not in a leadership role.
Presence on 11/02/2021 - 10:52

+1

Do you use office, eg Word and Excel? Because the integration with Teams is great.
- dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 11:38
  
  Do use office. Mostly outlook. Work & excel is used, but not for sharing files.
  
  The collaboration is not really document based, it is voice (or chat). Quick questions, quick answers.
  - [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 11:47
    
    +2
    
    Just stay in the Microsoft ecosystem if they already use Word, Excel and Outlook. As you said, they are dumb, so make it easy for them.
    
    And what annual cards are you talking about?
    - dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 11:53
      
      https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/microsoft-365/buy/compare-al…
      
      $129 per year 6 machines. We just get 2 cards per year.
      - LoggedIn2Say on 11/02/2021 - 14:49
        
        +2
        
        @dmbminaret: You probably don't want to hear this, but if you're talking about the home version of Office 365 for a business environment, you are technically in violation of the License agreement.
        
        To be properly licensed, you'll need to spend $349.00 x 5 for Office Home and Business 2019 (they are single licenses)
        
        Otherwise, you could sign up for Office 365, and bundle email, office and teams for $17.20 per user per month
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 14:57
        
        @LoggedIn2Say:
        
        You probably don't want to hear this,
        
        That's ok.
    - dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 11:56
      
      As you said, they are dumb, so make it easy for them.
      
      Makes no difference where the email is hosted if using IMAP with outlook?
      
      I'm looking for features & benefits to change from google to microsoft.
      
      Only reason so far is that google chat sucks.
      - [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 12:02
        
        @dmbminaret: IMAP? What is this…. 1993?
        
        It's best practice these days (and the last decade) to block IMAP because it is insecure. But you do you.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 12:49
        
        @[Deactivated]: I don't know about you, but I wasn't even using pop3 in 1993.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Australia#cite_ref….
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 13:14
        
        @dmbminaret: That just proved by point of just how old IMAP is. It is from the 1980!
        
        Even the latest version (IMAP4) is nearly 30 years old.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:01
        
        @[Deactivated]: So what do you use then?
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 15:04
        
        -1
        
        @dmbminaret: Mail is hosted in 365 which uses Exchange with modern authentication.
        
        So unlike IMAP, POP and SMTP, it's actually secure.
        
        We also use SharePoint and OneDrive for Business so it makes collaborating on Word/Excel/PowerPoint documents really easy combined with the great integration in Teams.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:18
        
        @[Deactivated]: So it's secure because MS says it is?
        
        What is google using then, if not exchange?
        
        It's probably not IMAP, but looks like IMAP and works like IMAP compared to POP3…
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 15:25
        
        @dmbminaret:
        
        So it's secure because MS says it is?
        
        Well… No.
        It uses modern authentication with support for MFA and once setup does not use a username and password to connect to the server. It basically uses oauth, support for MFA, smart card, client based certs, etc.
        
        POP, SMTP (even authenticated) and IMAP are not secure protocols.
        
        Google, like Exchange, have their own proprietary protocols.
        But, Google does not have a secure protocol to use with the desktop Outlook client.
        
        If you use Googles web app, its secure or their phone apps, etc.
        
        Security aside, using a mish mash of Google and Microsoft products is just a crappy experience for users and administrators alike.
        
        It would also just be cheaper to use a single Microsoft bundled product, than paying Google for some things and paying Microsoft for others.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:28
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        Google, like Exchange, have their own proprietary protocols.
        But, Google does not have a secure protocol to use with the desktop Outlook client.
        
        Even with 2FA and an app password?
        
        This is a good reason to change then! I just went with google for preference, but the use of outlook is needed.
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 15:29
        
        @dmbminaret: An app password is just a username and password.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:31
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        An app password is just a username and password.
        
        ok thanks.
        this helps a lot.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:30
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        Security aside, using a mish mash of Google and Microsoft products is just a crappy experience for users and administrators alike.
        
        I'm finding this with random drafts after sending
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 15:37
        
        @dmbminaret: If you already have desktop apps, Microsoft 365 is $6.90 per user per month for Exchange Online, SharePoint, Teams and OneDrive for Business.
        
        https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/microsoft-365/business/compa…
        
        Google Workspace is $8.40 per user per month for the same plan but it offers you less storage and a less complete collaboration platform compared to Teams and SharePoint.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 15:42
        
        @[Deactivated]: Yep. It was a toss up between that and gsuite and I went with gsuite but google chat is not working well with a shared email.
        
        Do you know if I will be able to make teams accounts for alias email accounts on ms365? That's really what I need…to have more teams logins than email accounts.
        
        I guess I can mix and match free/paid.
        
        Just trying to work out if worth migrating now from google to microsoft.
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 15:43
        
        @dmbminaret:
        
        Do you know if I will be able to make teams accounts for alias email accounts on ms365? That's really what I need…to have more teams logins than email accounts.
        
        What are you trying to achieve by doing that?
        
        LoggedIn2Say on 11/02/2021 - 15:51
        
        -1
        
        @[Deactivated]: I'm guessing being cheap and avoiding proper licensing requirements - ie, 3 people sharing a single license
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 18:21
        
        @LoggedIn2Say:
        
        I'm guessing being cheap and avoiding proper licensing requirements - ie, 3 people sharing a single license
        
        Since when is 3 people sharing a single email address avoiding licensing requirements?
        
        I'm trying to get everyone to have their own teams account which microsoft releases on a free tier anyway.
        
        My main reason for the post is whether I should bother migrating existing PAID email from PAID google servers to PAID microsoft servers. Same number of emails. Roughly same cost.
        
        Forget about office, that is irrelevant here.
        
        LoggedIn2Say on 11/02/2021 - 19:43
        
        +2
        
        @dmbminaret: Your title literally says:
        
        O365 Vs Gsuite Entry Tier for 5 Accounts
        
        So you only need 5 accounts? You also say:
        
        biggest dilemma is a shared email only shows as one user so gets convoluted in chat
        
        Which implies that multiple people are sharing an account. And finally:
        
        $129 per year 6 machines. We just get 2 cards per year.
        
        (which violates Microsoft's licensing terms, but regardless)
        
        But even if I have misunderstood you and you have 5 licensed users and 50 non licensed users, unless I'm wrong, there isn't a free teams plan for commercial Office 365 tenancies - you would need to license everyone with a Business Basic pack (at a cost of $6.90 per month). There is a free trial available, but that's not permanent
        
        Since when is 3 people sharing a single email address avoiding licensing requirements?
        
        It is absolutely against Microsoft's terms of use (for Office 365 anyway, I honestly don't know if Google is any different)
        
        Each user that accesses the Online Service must be assigned a User SL or access the Online Service only through a device that has been assigned a Device SL, unless specified otherwise in the Online Service-specific Terms.
        
        dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 16:04
        
        +1
        
        @[Deactivated]: Chat is needed across the business. It needs more terminals with internal chat than external email.
        
        Quick questions, quick answers without walking across a large Factory
        
        [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 16:10
        
        +1
        
        @dmbminaret: Yeah just mix and match paid and free licenses then.
abb on 11/02/2021 - 10:57

+1

Please don't say slack

Can I interest you in Mattermost? ;)

a shared email only shows as one user so gets convoluted in chat

I haven't used Google Chat (or shared email addresses), but is there another way to use the shared email addresses? Google might be able to suggest something. It sounds like a thing that a lot of business customers would use.

I find Google's email much better than MS outlook, but I will say that outlook's web app has improved a lot and is generally bearable now.
- dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 11:40
  
  Can I interest you in Mattermost? ;)
  
  I'll have a look. Cheers.
  
  I find Google's email much better than MS outlook, but I will say that outlook's web app has improved a lot and is generally bearable now.
  
  We're all using outlook with IMAP anyway.
  - MrBear on 14/02/2021 - 12:13
    
    Google's email much better than MS outlook
    
    I'd have to disagree on that. Google is absolutely terrible when it comes to user interface design for their applications. They have a lot of design principles and practices but it isn't what user's really want. Ever tried searching for a youtube video in just the channels you subscribe to? Nope. Jump from gmail to contacts? Nope, no button. Easily save a location in google maps and not have it in your favourites? Why would a user want to do that?
    
    I was using the html version of outlook in 2004 and it was as good as the desktop version.
    - dmbminaret on 14/02/2021 - 12:37
      
      Agreed. I used to love google products and microsoft gave me the shits, but now not so much. Have a look at some feedback to do with Youtube music after retiring Google Play music on reddit:
      
      https://www.reddit.com/r/YoutubeMusic/
- kiitos on 12/02/2021 - 09:37
  
  How are you finding mattermost? We use jabber at work and it's got its flaws, and mattermost had been mentioned as a replacement candidate.
  - abb on 12/02/2021 - 10:08
    
    +1
    
    I don't use it for work, so haven't pushed it beyond the basics, but I have the app on my phone and it works well for chat groups. Notification levels can be adjusted per channel etc. Sometimes it logs out and I don't notice. Not sure if that's a problem in MM, my phone, my server, …
    
    It's basically an open-source Slack equivalent. (Slack itself being a closed-source IRC clone with a better UI and a huge marketing budget)
thatonethere on 11/02/2021 - 12:09

+2

I'd just go O365 and consolidate all the licencing. Probably means all the Office licencing is legit then too.

There will be moaning about Teams being not as good as whatever else they are using. Just get the boss to mandate it and lay down the law as his/her decision which is final (not yours).
rbrb on 11/02/2021 - 19:14

Microsoft 365 (no longer called Office 365 FYI) is definitely the way to go.

It has so much more flexibility compared to G-Suite and the pricing is better as well.

Having implemented both on multiple occasions and administer them on a regular basis, my opinion is of experience only.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
- dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 19:53
  
  Thanks!
  
  I don't think your PM is on.
  - rbrb on 11/02/2021 - 21:30
    
    Thanks, didn't realise it was off, it is on now.
Clear on 11/02/2021 - 20:01

+1

I have hundreds of clients with Microsoft 365 and Google Workspaces. My favourite? 365.

If you're already in the Microsoft ecosystem where people are already using Outlook, Excel, Word etc. then stay in the ecosystem and use 365 as Google can be quite significantly different and staff need to be retrained to use it properly. Google consider programs like Outlook to be Less secure apps so you need to turn off security settings to use them and Google are planning to discontinue Outlook support in the next few years.

Microsoft Teams for chat and for conferencing (like Zoom) is significantly better than what Google offers. Also the added benefit of Exchange instead of IMAP as others have explained.

Licensing for Microsoft is also a lot better. Business Basic is good if you just want an account with email, while Business Standard will come with the Office products and multiple installs. Technically the 5 installs with a Business Basic license is for one person, but you can install it on multiple devices and argue that "staff use multiple computers". This would save costs by having 4 Business Basic for $30.36 per month and 1 Business Standard for $18.92 per month.

When it comes to Microsoft licensing I've only ever had customers who have CAL, VL etc. get audited and never anyone else. In a Microsoft audit if you're not compliant they'll give you plenty of time to become compliant and since you're not using CALs or VL you're fine and don't have to worry.
- dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 20:06
  
  Thanks mate. This is exactly the kind of response i was looking for.
  
  One question:
  What do people in offices use for email if not outlook? Gmail web? Surely not!
  - Clear on 11/02/2021 - 20:37
    
    If you're using Google Workspaces then the included "email client" is Gmail and it's horrible. Typically you'll find businesses run older versions of Office with Outlook or on rare occasions in small business, Windows Live Mail, Thunderbird and all those other gross freebies.
  - LoggedIn2Say on 11/02/2021 - 21:00
    
    This is exactly the kind of response i was looking for.
    
    Stop being cheap. If you work in IT you have an obligation to do the right thing and ensure that you are compliant in your licensing. I would be absolutely pissed if I stepped into a new job and then told the boss that IT costs would need to double because the previous guy was cheaping out and used pirated/incorrectly licensed software
    - dmbminaret on 12/02/2021 - 09:52
      
      +1
      
      Stop being cheap. If you work in IT you have an obligation to do the right thing and ensure that you are compliant in your licensing.
      
      I'm not being cheap. I don't work in IT.
      
      I am asking whether it is good to transfer existing google subscription email to new microsoft subscription email.
      
      We use internal chat more across the business than email or phone so I'm looking for best bang for buck to have most employees as possible on chat. Many do not require email, therefore possibly not needing a subscription license. If that is 'cheap' over budget conscious, sue me.
      
      This is exactly the kind of response i was looking for.
      
      Why did you go straight to the licensing? There was a lot of good info in Clear's comment.
- LoggedIn2Say on 11/02/2021 - 20:57
  
  Technically the 5 installs with a Business Basic license is for one person, but you can install it on multiple devices and argue that "staff use multiple computers". This would save costs by having 4 Business Basic for $30.36 per month and 1 Business Standard for $18.92 per month
  
  This is bad advice and you should feel bad.
  
  You could argue that, but it's wrong and I hope you aren't an MSP providing that advice to clients. We're literally talking about a difference of $45 a month. Or about two hours at minimum wage.
  - Clear on 11/02/2021 - 21:02
    
    It's also technically true. Last time I dealt with an audit I discussed that very issue and their response was that if it's a shared computer then it's okay.
    
    I'm not in the licensing/compliance department so I don't provide that advice to customers. They're all compliant to the letter afaik. The only ones who would have issues are not for profits, but licensing for those is very cheap, e.g. E3 so they'd be compliant too.
    
    On the topic of being technical. Technically you shouldn't go use the Media Creation Tool to make bootable media and upgrade a Win7/8.1 license to Windows 10. Technically you shouldn't buy cheap keys from eBay that are MDSN/VL or upgraded, but Microsoft actually don't care. As far as they're concerned, as a home consumer if your license activates then it's valid.
    - dmbminaret on 12/02/2021 - 09:57
      
      This is bad advice and you should feel bad.
      
      Poor microsoft.
      
      On the topic of being technical. Technically you shouldn't go use the Media Creation Tool to make bootable media and upgrade a Win7/8.1 license to Windows 10. Technically you shouldn't buy cheap keys from eBay that are MDSN/VL or upgraded, but Microsoft actually don't care. As far as they're concerned, as a home consumer if your license activates then it's valid.
      
      Not sure if still the case, but windows used to be licensed for install on two machines (I guess to reduce volume of calls to re-activate before online activation). It wasn't displayed anywhere, but you could install it on two machines simultaneously without compromising the TOS.
Bystander on 11/02/2021 - 20:19

Not sure if these help with your situation but may be worth looking into if you're already in the Googlesphere

https://workspace.google.com/products/currents/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups
- dmbminaret on 11/02/2021 - 20:25
  
  I looked at currents. It's like a cross between slack and facebook. Basically google+ I think.
  
  Facebook workchat was the best. Just FB messenger but only your domain.
geekcohen on 12/02/2021 - 08:54

+1

I'd recommend Google Workspace / G Suite.

I use it for my personal emails as well as Work. With COVID, we have been using a lot more of Google's features with Google Docs, Google Meet and Google Chat. We use Chat a lot of internal, Google meet for internal + client calls and Google Docs for general work. We have used Google docs more with WFH for staff.

All depends on cost and budget. Google Workspace/G Suite is pretty good price wise. If you want Microsoft 365 software, just buy 1 or 2 licenses. 1 license can be used on 5 PCs. That is what I have done with work. Everyone has G Suite and then got a few MS365 license for MS365 programs.
spezd on 12/02/2021 - 09:55

+1

Have you ever considered Telegram?
- dmbminaret on 12/02/2021 - 10:03
  
  NO! But I like it. They have desktop program. Only need phone to register huh.
  
  Domain only would be better, but this would work if teams won't mix free and paid.
  
  Also looked at kaizala by microsoft. Would be pretty similar to telegram.
dmbminaret on 07/03/2021 - 10:43

As a follow-up to this, I migrated user mailboxes from google to M365 and is now working flawlessly with outlook.

Using telegram for chat. While teams would have benefits, we are in a factory and it is not for video or meetings, simply individual and group chats that are mostly quick questions or reminders.

O365 Vs Gsuite Entry Tier for 5 Accounts, Which and Why Please

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