I just rented out my place and these tenants are seriously from hell.
Only have been in for 2 weeks and I have spent over 3 months worth of rent for repairs that I never had issues with.
Now they want to take me to vCAT for pain and suffering and lost wage because their toilet was blocked and they had to take time off work for the plumbers /handy man to come around a few times.
They keep on calling my agent and abuse them.
Apparently they had a good reference.
What can I do?
Two sides of every story…
What repairs warranted immediate fixing if they just moved in?
Why did they accept the tenancy if it wasn't up to scratch when they visited for inspection? Could it have been not apparent or hidden from inspection glances?
Doubt they could take you to VCAT for something so menial… But you did mention multiple visits by the plumber. Did you not accept the initial quotes?
Immediately fixed every issue within 24 hours. Every issue under the sun has come up like every tap leaking, 1 each day. Toilet blocked a few times. Lights not working and the list goes on.
Well within 2 weeks of renting
i'd like my lights to work
toilet to not be blocked (although if the plumber finds they've caused the issue you can put it back on them and bill them), your plumbing might be a bit iffy it an older house
I'd like my taps not to leak as well.
Honestly i feel these are normal things that would need to be fixed and a minimum expectation from most renters.
And yes a toilet would be something that would have to be fixed within 24 hours
You bought an investment property, like many investments you have to spend money to make money. It's not a cash cow that you can continuously draw from without feeding.
All the lights did work when I was living there a month ago and no taps leaked and never had a toilet blocked.
@zahalz: What did the electrician and plumber say when they came to replace the light, and fix the leaky tap? Was the light not working and electrician replaced them? And did the tap leak, so the plumber repaired the leaks? If no issue was found, wouldn't you be able to ask for a report from the electrician and plumber and bill it to the tenant?
What happens when you lived in the property seems irrelevant here…
Also, if the tenant requested for a repair, they will have to allow trades to visit the property to carry out the repair. The tenant does not have to be home for the repair, it was their choice to stay home for the repair (unless you or your agent asked for them to stay home for the repair). So I would not worry too much about their claim in that regards.
Based on your information it seems that you or your real estate agent should have asked the respective tradies etc on the cause.
Blocked toilet could be the tenant's fault and they should wear the cost.
Leaking taps, could be the washer was old and finally stopped being effective. It's unexpected and you wouldn't know unless you took the tap apart and inspected the washer or found another issue.
Honestly it seems like bad luck and perhaps you not getting the info on cause of the "defect".
RE: them having a fuss about the days lost in income, it would only be accepted if you deliberately gave them the run around. Else, they'd have no ground
Any plumber I have employed would check the other taps on the first visit.
I presume a detailed written and photo/video condition report has been done. That everything was working(or not) should have been noted.
do you have landlord insurance? prob contact them
Yes I do. I didn’t think it would cover repairs?
prb not
this is why im thinking of just selling my property- too much risk. better to just invest in vanguard etf etc
It can cover certain repairs, check your policy.
You pay an agent to handle this, surely they can provide the advice you need?
They said nothing I can do and it’s not likely they will win at VCAT.
That really sucks. You may just have to suck it up, but tell the agent in writing that you don't want to renew their lease at the end of tenancy so they need to make sure that your tenants are given notice to move out at the appropriate time. Hopefully the lease isn't too long. If you've fixed every tap, toilet and lights in the home then surely there's nothing else to break? Maybe things will get better from now on.
Not renewing their lease because they expect things to work FFS
I think that's a question for your agent. If they can't give you any suggestions then you probably don't have grounds to evict.
Realistically paying for repairs/maintenance is required and provided that the issue has not been caused by neglect or misuse, it is considered wear and tear. So you would need to build a case for misuse - did the agent get a report from the plumber regarding the cause?
Plumbers can determine the cause of blockage.
Plumbers can determine the cause leaking taps. A damaged seat? A worn washer?
Electricians can determine the cause of faulty lights.
Answer these questions and determine what is really going on.
in a perfect world…
"How to Legally Kick out Tenants from Hell?" Sounds like you will have the devils own job doing that! All pun intended :P
Sounds like an entitled landlord from hell.
A good reason not to rent somewhere the landlord has previously lived in.
just don't renew the contract, say you need to do major renovations. if they are abusing your agent then they will want to do this as well. references can be faked (and are rarely ever 'not good') and it really depends on how good your agent is as to whether they managed to pick up on this.
i agree with op, they are probably tenants from hell when they try and claim compensation for 'pain and suffering' for trivial things. trust me, you need to get rid of them asap, but that will be easier when contract is up rather than trying to push them out sooner unless they are doing malicious damage and you have proof (even then it's hard) - you might be liable for breaking the contract
blocked drains are usually their fault unless you've got roots in the plumbing, but even then it depends on your system and what they're putting down there (ie. nappies etc.) most plumbers don't care and will just want to do the job and leave and won't even put a camera down there beforehand.
what most people here don't understand is that tradies LOVE ripping off landlords and they will never side with the landlord because they want repeat business and don't want the trouble of tenants threatening them, needing to go to court, and generally avoiding a headache whenever it comes to needing to blame someone. it's easier to just blame you and hand you the bill.
agents can also get a referral discount for using 'their' tradies, so again, they have some incentive to just blame you as well.
keep in mind, some of these damages can be wear and tear, or can have been done be a previous tenant and you didn't know and the agent didn't check properly when the last ones left (common!). you probably didn't hook up water and electricity to check everything is running after they left? that's right - no-one does.
if your lights aren't working consistently and it's old wiring you need to update everything (this will cost thousands), but don't underestimate the stupidity of a tenant - sometimes they don't even know how to change a light bulb (and aren't blonde). some want you to call an electrician to change a light bulb because they don't want you on their property (yes, paying rent gives tenants a sense of ownership and entitlement, too). some tenants also have underlying mental health issues and will deliberately mess with stuff to have you call a 'professional' or think they will get a new air conditioner or oven because they don't like the look of the old one. we had one tampering with allegedly leaky taps even after a plumber said nothing was wrong. some will try (and successfully get!) your phone number to circumvent the agent and guess what? the calls will never end.
honestly, given that some of these issues might not be their fault, i'd give them another 6 months and see if you hear from them again. if this crap continues or escalates get rid of them otherwise it will never end. some tenants will deliberately cause damage because they want attention and want to waste your money. some people have such an underlying resentment towards landlords (yes i've even heard people complain that the term landlords is colonial and offensive).
"Now they want to take me to vCAT for pain and suffering and lost wage because their toilet was blocked …."
They sound like dick'eads to me.
When we had investment properties and we wanted to get rid of a bad tenant we just bumped up the rent when the lease was due, or as others have said, just don't renew the lease. On the other hand when we had good tenants, which was most of the time, we didn't raise the rent for now reason (if at all). Thus bringing balance to the force.
So after you get rid of them maybe try a different agent as well or at least grill the current ones as to how these clowns got past their screening.
Every issue under the sun has come up like every tap leaking, 1 each day. Toilet blocked a few times. Lights not working and the list goes on
lol no, I'm sorry - but the above is abso-flipping-lutely unacceptable. I love most of the LLs of OzB - all self-entitled b-holes. You think the above makes a tenant unacceptable, considering they have had all these issues within TWO WEEKS of moving in? Get outta town
Sorry Princess Entitled, we are also tenants and have been for a long time, if we have a leaky tap, or a busted lightbulb or a blocked drain I'll fix it myself and will only bug the landlord for events that I am not qualified to address or involve large capital outlay. And then when it's done I say 'thanks'. If I break something myself I will pay for it myself. And people like you wonder what's wrong with the world?
You'll pay, weekly, hundreds of dollars and you will do the works yourself? Righto, mate. More power to you.
@cynicalmike: This is what I love about LLs. Someone is paying their mortgage and you reckon tenants are entitled for wanting an abode that's in working condition for the hundreds of dollars they pay weekly.
@ThithLord: then get your own mortgage then? buy your own house? stop doing it? or does your flipping burgers job at macca's not compensate you enough to do that?
heaven forbid someone actually works hard enough to own their own property only to have entitled tenants come in and trash the place costing them thousands in repairs they shouldn't have to make.
like i said in another post, a lot of entitled tenants (ie. you) that harbour significant resentment because someone has something more than them.
wake up and smell the tall poppies.
@cynicalmike: You're embarrassing. A tenant expecting a habitable abode is unreasonable because get your own mortgage then!! You didn't even answer my question regarding a hotel room with a blocked toilet, lights not working and a leaky tap. Would you be okay with this?
And you resort to implying I work for McDonalds. You're starting to realise you got nothing of sunstance to add, I can see. Nice work, losing your cool.
like i said in another post, a lot of entitled tenants (ie. you) that harbour significant resentment because someone has something more than them.
Not in the slightest - I detest LL who have an entitlement such as yourself. I have zero issue with my LL - good bloke, has issues repaired ASAP. We have a symbiotic relationship.
@ThithLord: oh poor you, someone disagreed with you and your nasty sentiment to landlords of OzB.
don't like it when insults are thrown back your way? then don't make them in the first place.
it doesn't even appear you have read the thread or have any idea of some tenants are capable of, because you're not experienced on the other side and only have your own experience to draw from. imagine if you applied this sentiment to all social justice issues - this is likely where you're being a hypocrite but can't see it.
like i said, it's usually the tenants with the sense of entitlement (especially when they want everything to be perfect but live like rabid dogs) and i've explained in this thread how that comes about. genuine issues are fine but 3 months of rent to fix a few minor problems indicates something is up.
@cynicalmike: Can you highlight where in this thread OP has said their tenants live like rabid animals?
You're shifting the goalposts - we're not even playing ball sports anymore.
You still refuse to answer my question about the hotel room, lol. It's rather cute. Just tell me you'd be fine with those issues and be done with it, you spineless drongo.
@ThithLord: oops, i seem to have drawn on my own experience. you can't even differentiate between a general statement and quoting the op. education not your strongpoint? flip the burger higher!
shifting goalposts? nope, you're just out of retorts.
i did answer your question about the hotel room with "Ok, Karen", because i'm sure you'd ask to speak to the manager and that's why i called you Karen.
oops, i seem to have drawn on my own experience. you can't even differentiate between a general statement and quoting the op. education not your strongpoint? flip the burger higher!
Let me get this straight - OP's tenants aren't entitled to a habitable abode within two weeks of moving in because other tenants are horrible, unrelated to OP and his tenancy? Am I getting this right?
i did answer your question about the hotel room with "Ok, Karen", because i'm sure you'd ask to speak to the manager and that's why i called you Karen.
"Ok, Karen" just either say Yes, or no. It's a simple question.
@ThithLord: Let me get this straight - you can't read or even accept what the Op is saying because of your own prejudice.
Op says he lived there a month ago (that is very recent), this all doesn't pop up in such a short time frame. Op says he has fixed all issues within 24 hours.
Leaking taps doesn't make the abode uninhabitable, neither does a non functioning light. sewage is a requirement but it's questionable whether the tenant hasn't caused the blockages themselves (multiple times within weeks is not normal and the first unblock should have lasted months if not years even if there was another underlying issue).
it might be a foreign concept to you, and even though you loathe this fact, but some people here have dealt with all these issues in the past and are happy to provide advice on how to proceed (unlike you who is just happy to blame the LL)
go away, Karen.
Only have been in for 2 weeks and I have spent over 3 months worth of rent for repairs that I never had issues with.
If there weren't actually any issues, where did this money actually go? Three months of rent how much would that have to be? At least a few thousand dollars.
I'll take your lack of response to the hotel question as a resounding no. We're done here.
And i know you think you're being reeeeal witty with calling me a Karen, mate, but trust me. It isn't coming off as witty.
@ThithLord: I'll take your moronic desperation to compare a 1-night overpriced hotel run by a multi-million dollar corporation to a long term significantly cheaper lease with more potential for significant long term damage as your pathetic attempt to make a point that simply can't be made because you don't understand the situation here.
"mate".
significant long term damage
'sept, y'know - this is within two weeks of moving in. But, sure.
@ThithLord: 'sept, y'know - Op fixed all the issues anyway and tenant is abusive and demanding compensation. But, sure.
@EightImmortals You sound like my tenants, they're lovely. The husband is a boilermaker and good with his hands and does a lot of maintenance himself. Eg he cleaned out the leaves from the gutter so the pergola didn't leak in rainstorms, he found a blockage in an outdoor drain and removed it, and fitted new flyscreens himself (I reimbursed for the flyscreens themselves). They redecorated some of the outdoor space themselves and paid for a new electric plug that they wanted installed. Makes it very easy to say yes to anything they ask for eg they wanted to keep chickens. It'll be a very long time before I consider raising their rent and would be happy for them to have the longest lease they want when it comes up for renewal soon. I am so grateful for them as the previous tenant was terrible so in comparison they are doubly fantastic.
oh Lord of Thith, if you could only read between the lines and lose your own sense of self-entitlement you would realise calling a plumber in repeatedly for a different tap each day is not normal.
i'll be back in 24 hours to neg all your arrogant comments. now if you politely ask mummy to unblock the toilet for you because you put too much poo poo paper in the toilet hole you might realise it's not just you that's full of crap.
Oh please, please don't neg my comments - CynicalMike, how am I to go on with a neg'd comment? I can never show my face on OzB again!
@cynicalmike: Having paid bond and, I'd imagine, two weeks advance rent, they've just moved in and have three issues already - is this not registering to you as an issue? Would you rent a hotel room and be cosy with these issues, mate? Or would you be entitled?
If tenant request repair of a leaky tap, the agent or the landlord usually check all taps for the leakage as it is cheaper to address the issue at the same time than have them called out on separate occasion. This is mainly because it only takes few minutes to inspect each tap for leakage. It does not matter how often they report leakage to you. If it leaks, and if the tenant did not damage it, the landlord has to pay for the repair.
The agent might have arranged only for the repairs of the leaky tap on the first visit. But when they received the second repair request on the next day, they should have asked the plumber to check all taps while they are on the property for the repair.
@Summoner: LL should have checked himself yes, but tenants hate landlords (ie. ThithLord) and make all kinds of excuses from allowing attendance to the property.
plumbers won't do jack, even when you ask them to. faulty taps (and as op says, these issues have never come up before) could just be washers causing the leaks which is like once in 10 year maintenance.
if the tenant is abusing the agent as the op says, this isn't a normal tenant - even when the op has actually forked out to fix all these problems.
@cynicalmike: This may be true. Law is there to protect both the landlord and the tenant. If the tenant is abusing the agent with unnecessary repair request, its just the matter of getting the report from tradies then forward the bill to tenant. Then, tenant will stop those behaviour as its now their loss. The report from tradies may add extra cost on top, but its well worth it on few occasion to deal with those situation.
On other hand, if the repair request was genuine, their behaviour should not be described as abusive.
@Summoner: yes, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, tradies don't care and in most cases won't blame the tenant. Imagine having someone threaten you if you come back to the property, or you see them again in the future (at a different residence) and they remember they had to pay because of that report you made.
tradies will just get the landlord to pay up because they're the one paying the bill. Some issues it is worth it to just get the drains unblocked every now and say it's "old pipes" and then and claim there is an issue because it's repeat business $$$
@cynicalmike: I am sorry to hear about your experience with the tradies. I never had a problem when I requested for tradies report. All they asked for was additional fees for the report.
They are taking him to VCAT for lost wages from a blocked toilet.
Now they want to take me to vCAT for pain and suffering and lost wage because their toilet was blocked and they had to take time off work for the plumbers /handy man to come around a few times.
Yep that's very odd - unless they did not want the tradies/plumbers attending their residence while they weren't there, hence having to take time off? That's all I can surmise. That isn't fair to whinge to VCAT for that fact, I can agree with you there.
That isn't fair to whinge to VCAT for that fact, I can agree with you there
No, and is the thing I'd take issue with personally. Shit happens and things need to be fixed, but VCAT over that just looks like someone who knows the system and is going to try and milk it.
@brendanm: The only thing that makes me think there's two sides to this story, is the fact that OP has said the toilet/s have blocked multiple times.
If we assume they're blocking through no fault of the tenant, you can't fault them for being p'ed off for toilet multiple blockages within weeks of moving in. All depends on how OP has handled that
@ThithLord: If op never had toilet blockages, and now he does, it's quite possibly the tenant. If it's not, the plumber should have rectified the situation. VCAT for lost wages is a bit ridiculous though.
Savvy investors always say that investing in real estate is the best thing since sliced bread. They say work hard, buy an investment property and be set for life. The avocado sandwich doesn't taste so nice when they have to deal with the counterparty risk.
Yes, poor landlord having to spend money to ensure their investment is in a habitable condition :( WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE LANDLORD!
“Buy an investment property you will get $500 per week for doing nothing, it’s great.”
100% you need a report from the attending trades as to the cause of the issues.
If the blocked toilet was the result of them flushing something they shouldn't have, they are liable for the costs.
A leaking tap is generally not classed as an emergency repair in most cases and you have more than 24 hours to get it fixed. If the "broken lights" were blown bulbs, the tenants are probably liable for replacing them. Our rental agreement specifies this and the property report says they were all working when we signed it/moved in. The sparky should have reported what the issue was in their invoice for repairs. Surely you get a copy of this for tax purposes?
Start gathering evidence to push back with.
If they're abusing the agent and you are handling everything in a timely manner, then get the agent to take care of them. That's what you're paying them for.
I'll happily do what I can in our rental to fix small issues (leaking taps etc.) but also expect the landlord to come to the party when bigger issues arise, which they do.
Can you request another inspection report be done? The tenants along with the agent (any you possibly) walk through the house and document all the apparent issues. For those things that are reasonable, put in a plan to have them fixed. For those that are not reasonable, formally write to the tenant outlining what wont be repaired and reminding them they signed both the lease and inspection report accepting the condition of the property.
You could offer them a get-out-of-jail card by offering to let them end the lease early now if they not longer find the place suitable for themselves. Yes, you will take a financial hit in doing this but it could be cheaper than the ongoing costs if they remain in the property.
No issues were picked up the the inspection report. I’ve told them they can break the lease and leave without penalty but they said no and I would need to pay for their hotel expense and furniture storage for the rest of the year.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck OP. Assuming they signed up for a 12 month contract then it will be a long year indeed. Maybe if they stop paying rent then it might open up legal channels for you to kick them out. When this is all over, the odds are that your next tenants will be better.
You will not be able to kick the tenants out until the end if the lease unless they breach it's conditions e.g. stop paying rent or seriously damage the property.
Trying to kick the tenants out for asking for repairs is likely to have you in VCAT. This is frowned upon.
If the owner has done the repairs within the timeframes specified then the tenant is unlikely to win anything at VCAT.
Why there are so many separate repairs is another issue.
make sure from now on the agent only hires tradies who will send them and you reports with photographic and/or videographic evidence included
this could be some kind of agent-tradie scam
the advice here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10042376/redir
is good but you ignored / deflected it?
Bikies.