Apple Nov 2020 Event - M1 Powered MacBook Air from $1,599, MacBook Pro from $1,999, Mac mini from $1,099

scotty on 11/11/2020 - 08:08

Apple has just announced their long awaited Apple silicon based Macs. Here are the Apple AU's links to purchase the latest Apple M1 powered Mac, which should be available for delivery in a week:

According to Apple, M1 chip is said to

M1 delivers up to 3.5x faster CPU, up to 6x faster GPU, up to 15x faster machine learning (ML) capabilities, and battery life up to 2x longer than before

which is pretty impressive (if the independent benchmarks also match the claim). I guess Mac users who held the purchases earlier and waited for this update would be glad.

Other Apple announcement discussion thread from this year — September event (iPad Air, Apple Watch) and October event (iPhone 12, Homepod mini).

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Comments

  • jimbobaus on 11/11/2020 - 08:14

    Looks good for laptops, battery life is amazing if reported times are true

    I will be very interested to see if they have a workaround for Windows Bootcamp.
    Microsoft makes a version of windows that can run on ARM chips but Apple has to "request" it and would probably have to sell it to customers directly.

    Bootcamp imho has been a large reason for mac's success in a lot of corporate environments and removing this ability from their hardware line up will def have an effect on sales.

    I love mac, always have but being able to run windows on a partition means i can get access to apps/games i would other wise miss out on.
    This will make me seriously consider a switch back to Windows when i next upgrade.

    but hey, i can run Among Us on the new ARM macs.. so thats a win?

    • scotty on 11/11/2020 - 08:23
      +4

      As it's really a custom chip from apple, I doubt that Windows for ARM would be optimised (or even run) on M1. It's probably easier to run Windows in emulation — Mac has that back in the PowerPC days.

      And I thought you could always run Among Us on something like Bluestacks :)

      • jimbobaus on 11/11/2020 - 08:35

        yeah you can run Among Us via Bluestacks but ARM lets iphone/ipad apps run natively so it will be a better experience overall.

        Agreed, Windows via emulation might be the way to go, its just so limiting when it comes to resource intensive software (read: games)

        I will have to do some research, but i suspect you are right.
        Although saying that, almost every second comment on Apple forums, Tech Forums and the like is about Windows so Apple may pay attention (unlikely but i am hopeful)

        • mskeggs on 11/11/2020 - 16:55

          I think this a valid concern for games, but not true any more for corporate users.
          The occasional windows only corporate apps are really legacy apps at this point, and can run ok in emulation.
          So I don’t think the will cannibalise many corporate sales if boot camp disappears.

      • SteveB00 on 11/11/2020 - 08:38

        I think you’ll find that running Windows in emulation still requires an Intel chip. There was no Windows emulation for Macs when they had Motorola processors, it came with the switch to Intel.

        • jimbobaus on 11/11/2020 - 08:39
          +1

          You can run Windows Emulation via Parallels and the like
          Parallels has already been updated to support ARM devices.

          Bootcamp requires an Intel Chip hence my concern

        • scotty on 11/11/2020 - 09:28
          +2

          Once upon the time I had an iBook G3 and it ran Windows XP via Microsoft Virtual PC (at a terrible speed).

          If it's the same processor (x86_64) then it would be virtualisation rather than emulation.

        • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:14

          incorrect, you could emulate it on the powerpc chips. It was just insanely slow, that is was basically useless. For a few people, who had low demand legacy apps, it was useful i guess. But i think most users bought that virutalpc (IIRC the name) thinking it would be faster than it was, or that they could live with the slowness when they couldnt.

          • SteveB00 on 13/11/2020 - 06:49

            @modiika: You’re right. I’d forgotten about VirtualPC. But it used to emulate the Intel chipset, which is why it was insanely slow. Parallels is something else entirely. Running Windows on ARM will require emulation, which isn’t what Parallels currently does. If it was easy, they’d have had it ready for the release of the ARM Macs. Currently, they’re not even suggesting a release date.

            • modiika on 13/11/2020 - 09:56

              @SteveB00: Oh I totally agree.

              No one should expect to run power hungry windows apps with decent performance on Apple Silicon. I know Parallels is working on something, and maybe it performs better than VirtualPC did, but i still doubt it'll be even 50% of the performance of Bootcamp on apple's intel machines. So yeah, you want to run 15+ year old PC games, then yeah maybe. You want to run anything recent, hell no, even if later Apple products get dedicated GPUs.

            • MELso on 17/11/2020 - 07:19

              @SteveB00: Ah, but there is Windows on ARM. Only thing holding it back (other than the need for Apple to write Boot Camp drivers) is that Microsoft only licenses it to OEMs at the moment…

  • Fredfloresjr on 11/11/2020 - 08:34
    +7

    "But you can have the same specs for half the price with windows" boys incoming.

    • jimbobaus on 11/11/2020 - 08:35
      +3

      MacOS is the best reason to buy a mac over windows honestly.

      Company makes the OS and designs the hardware… they just work

      i assume you know this already lol

      • sridhar on 11/11/2020 - 09:02
        +3

        For me, it is actually third-party software like LaunchBar, KeyboardMaestro, Default Folder X, PopClip and Yoink that makes me prefer macOS.

        The fact that OS looks more polished and consistent is a bonus.

        • Caped Baldy on 11/11/2020 - 11:31
          -1

          Using windows is like an abusive relationship. Treats you bad but you're still there.
          I do like windows snapping and copy and paste in the right click menu. Missing these really irk me whenever I use macOS.

          • sridhar on 11/11/2020 - 18:41
            +1

            @Caped Baldy: I use keyboard shortcuts provided by the free Rectangle app to position windows.

            ctrl+alt+left to make a window take up the left half, ctrl+alt+right for the right half etc.

            Similarly, for copy and pasting, I use the standard cmd+c and cmd+v shortcuts.

            I also use the Paste app which shows a big bar at the bottom showing all my latest x no. of clipboard entries by pressing cmd+shift+v. We can manually select one of them or use cmd+number to paste. Screenshot: https://d.pr/i/CzIKXW. Pasteapp is included in Setapp subscription.

      • qvinto on 18/11/2020 - 11:32

        After using both i think MacOS "looks pretty" but when it comes to doing actual work windows is better. The key UI elements are just better in windows without having to buy a host of additional plugins for Mac e.g. app switching, keyboard shortcuts, taskbar features, window snapping and moving with keyboard shortcuts, control center (Big Sur may have caught up here finally) are all more functional on windows.

        Also in my field of engineering there are hardly any native apps for Mac. MS office is also a few versions behind

        Basically MacOS looks more polished but that is about it

    • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:20

      Well not anymore. We are going back to the PowerPC days when the arguments over specs was so difficult because of the different architecture.

      But yeah, looks like if Apple's claims are right, that you couldnt match it on

      I know you were kidding. Generally time and time again, at launch, you'd find apple were reasonably priced with their competition e.g. Dell etc. It's just you could generally save a lot on PC by choosing slightly weaker components in a few areas (that probably didnt matter to the buyer, but absolutely mattered to the cost differential). Or waiting 6 months when the price dropped everywhere but at Apple.

  • MS Paint on 11/11/2020 - 09:11
    +9

    Please check your invoice on delivery to confirm if silver or space grey. Thank you.

    • SF3 on 11/11/2020 - 11:36

      take your time ;) or take a colour blind test.

    • blonky on 11/11/2020 - 11:56

      Ordered a space grey iPad last week from Optus and a silver one arrived

    • DoctorCalculon on 11/11/2020 - 19:05
      +1

      Too soon. LOL!

  • eckers19 on 11/11/2020 - 09:40

    knew that these were coming out but still its annoying
    as i bought a 2019 macbook air (256gb i5) in feb

    a month before the 2020 air came out and think another month before they announced the change to the apple chip

    and the worst bit is i paid $200 more then this
    (https://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/space-grey…)

    although at the time i traded in a (faulty) surface pro 6 for it

    just a bit annoying but what can you do

    just hope they support intel for a while as one of the reasons i got a mac was because of how long they last

    • MS Paint on 11/11/2020 - 10:09
      +6

      "When you buy a new pc never look at pc prices again for at least 2 years"…. Confucius c.528bc

    • markathome on 11/11/2020 - 11:20

      I'm in a pretty similar situation. Paid more and in a worse position now. I usually check Mac Buyers Guide too. And I have that keyboard. :-(

    • psyren89 on 11/11/2020 - 11:31
      +1

      You might like to bookmark https://www.macrumors.com/.

    • mskeggs on 11/11/2020 - 16:56

      Cheer up. You will avoid all the version 1 bugs.

    • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:31

      it will last years. My friend is running a 2011 macbook air still, that's 9 years later. The support will be around for some time to come.

      I think your main concern will be some third parties stop updating their apps for your machine in about 2 years. That'll still be 4 years, and the machine will still be working. Worse case, wipe it an put Win10 on it. You cant do that with the new ones.

      By then, new computers will be quite advanced and i'm sure you'd be tempted enough anyway to upgrade even if you were on the M1 this time round.

  • FIVEDOLLAR on 11/11/2020 - 10:10
    +3

    M1 delivers up to 3.5x faster CPU, up to 6x faster GPU, up to 15x faster machine learning (ML) capabilities, and battery life up to 2x longer than before

    Also Apple: Testing conducted by Apple in October 2020 using preproduction Mac mini systems with the Apple M1 chip, and production 3.6GHz quad-core Intel Core i3–based Mac mini systems, all configured with 16GB of RAM and a 2TB SSD

    • markathome on 11/11/2020 - 11:24

      I'm curious about these figures and promises too. Why, for example, is Apple still selling Intel machines (not any Intel machines but their MacBook Pros) at a higher price if this new chip is so much better? I can understand some people will want Intel virtualization but I just get a feeling there's a little more to the story.

      • FIVEDOLLAR on 11/11/2020 - 11:44

        Potentially because they don't have to pay intel margin for their chips.

      • bdl on 11/11/2020 - 11:52

        In case people need to dual boot

      • scotty on 11/11/2020 - 11:54
        +4

        All new M1 based Macs seem to be capped at 16GB, whereas you can get 64GB RAM on the older Intel based Mac mini.

        • markathome on 11/11/2020 - 14:33
          +1

          The Intels also often have more than two thunderbolt USB-C ports. Every M1 seems to only have two. I'm sure this limitation will be lifted in future.

        • DoctorCalculon on 11/11/2020 - 19:08

          This is because the DRAM modules are encapsulated within the M1 chip.
          The M2 chip next year might offer 32GB or 64GB upgrade options.

          Also, as part of the unified memory architecture (UMA), the 16GB RAM is shared with the graphics chip within M1.

      • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:36

        I think they have a better chip coming, so there will be a higher spec macmini to replace that intel. Which will address the deficiencies below, namely, thunderbolt ports, ram and SSD capacity.

        This doesnt matter much for the average user. But the macmini is a weird device, and not one I think many normal consumers buy.

      • [Deactivated] on 13/11/2020 - 06:11

        The new chip isn't really better than any of the previous machines but the Air in anything other than power efficiency. They've given themselves 2 years to improve their chips to the point where they're better than higher-end Intel machines. The old Macbook Air was embarrassingly underpowered. That said for people doing pretty basic tasks that are heavily optimized for the Apple Silicon it will no doubt feel snappier. It's going to take a fair bit of work on the software end as well as the hardware end to complete this transition for 99% of users.

        At this point, I'd feel comfortable recommending any of these for the sort of person that could get away with an iPad Pro already.

  • jee on 11/11/2020 - 10:11

    this looks much cheaper to the current version

    • FlipCrank on 11/11/2020 - 10:35
      +2

      That’s supposedly the benefit of making everything yourself, but we all know it’s just so the adoption rate just higher. Wouldn’t be surprised if they hiked up the prices even more than the Intels once they get a couple generations in.

      • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:38

        No price change on the laptops in US pricing and a 100USD drop in mac mini cost. If there is in Australia, its because the USD/AUD has been improving in our favour.

        I was actually expecting a bigger price drop. So i think they are trying to recoup some costs.

  • ozhunter on 11/11/2020 - 12:12
    +4

    Impressive, at least from the live stream. $300 for an additional 8GB of ram just irks me, especially with cheapest default 16GB option costs $3,000.

  • MontyMacaw on 12/11/2020 - 08:26
    +3

    It’s a bold move from Apple. They have kept Intel options for those who want reliability in their software stable while offering the next generation for the early adopters. If they pull this off there will be a quantum leap in computing power for everybody. Apple are returning to their pioneering days of making the market follow their example as opposed to the recent era of just doing things better. I had ARM based computers in the 1990’s through the Acorn brand which later merged into ARM the company which is basically where every smartphone can trace its ancestry back to. They were called RISC chips then. I could run Windows under emulation mode but was always a generation of software behind. Having to go to Windows systems was a step backwards in performance at the time but that’s where all the new software was so there was no real choice not to. Don’t think for a minute Apple will make any products cheaper just because they provide their own chips. That is not their business model. Their loyal band of fans will pay a premium because they want what they consider the best. The big question for many will be if graphics cards are going to be integrated into the central CPU then does that limit performance increases in that area? If so then they will have to have the best graphics architecture in the world which would be a bridge too far imho. Mass market games software will be cloud based in a few years and consoles like XBox and PlayStation will not be the goto option so perhaps this is Apples long term strategy…

    • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 15:51
      +1

      On Games, I think their performance is unlikely to match the latest NVIDIA / AMD top spec card. I do think within a year or 2, they could perhaps, get close to the current gen consoles.

      I think gaming 'might' turn around on the mac, with the IOS stuff running natively. Lot's of games are built for IOS and as those devices are reasonably powerfully graphically, there might be a bigger incentive to make those games if they can actually just run on a computer with next to no effort. Then if apple ups their investment on apple arcade. It's really not a question of if its possible, just whether apple will make it a focus, or whether there's enough reason for it to happen organically.

      We havent seen what their plan is for dedicated graphics cards at the top end of the line up. Its an open question for macbook pro 16, iMacs and mac pro inparticular. Alot of those users are unlikely to be happy with the performance of Apple's on chip graphics. Although we could all be wrong. Personally, even if third party graphics cards are supported, I doubt we will see games made for mac arm just because they are available. I think they have to be incentivised because of the performance of the graphics on the onboard SOCs.

      So i guess, my feeling is Apple wont be a graphics leader. But the platform consistency with IOS devices, may give them a big enough platform to draw developers, even if the games dont run as good on the latest 3080ti etc, they may be good enough for most. I mean hell, you dont need much for WoW, LoL, Dota, Counter Strike, Among Us, etc.

  • OzHunterNSW on 12/11/2020 - 10:25

    I have a number of Macs. My Mini is kept to run various programmes such as Photoshop (for free) before they began to charge a ridiculous monthly fee.

    The M1 chip is found in mobiles and is designed with the purpose in mind to communicate more efficiently between computer and mobile devices.

    • Member 0230 on 12/11/2020 - 14:46
      +2

      Not that it's super-important, but maybe you mean the W-series chips?

      I think the M1 is the first of its kind, specially designed for Macs.

  • chiefbodge on 12/11/2020 - 12:20
    +1

    ARM has been ahead of x86_64 for ages now, the only reason it hasn't jumped from phones / tablets to laptops / desktop is all the legacy software.

    Microsoft trying hard but not managing to pull it off, too much legacy stuff to deal with and too hard to coordinate with developers and OEMS (dell etc).

    The reason this will work for Apple is their tight vertical integration of hardware / software / developers / marketing etc.

    Once Apple does it and succeeds then you can guarantee that everyone else will scramble to copy.

    I think in 10 years x86_64 wont be around much for personal computing. It's really hit a performance brick wall in recent times.

    I'll be hanging on to my 2015 15" Macbook Pro for the time being but I'm very excited about M1 and looking forward to a 16" Macbook with M2.

    • modiika on 12/11/2020 - 16:04
      +1

      I think we are likely to see m1X rather than m2. Or if its an M2 it'll be an M2X.

      That'll be easier for them as they age. Personally, my apparently unique take, was the M was mobile, like mobile class processor, and that they would do a P1 (Performance) or D1 (Desktop) for their other macs, with maybe an X1 for the Mac Pro. Seems, the general assumption was M for Mac though. So given that, i think it'll be M1X. I do think there's scope for a few variants, as they've talked about a family of processors. So we could see something strange like M1XE or something to further help differentiate MacBook pro 16 from iMacs, from iMac pro from mac pro. Good chance some of those share the same chip, but I think unlikely that they all share the same chip (M1X or M2).

    • [Deactivated] on 13/11/2020 - 06:19

      There are still things that x86_64 chips can do better, but that's down to a bunch of the specialized instruction sets that chew power. For performance per W outside extremely specific workloads ARM is way ahead. Especially ARM on 5nm vs x86_64 on 14nm or 10nm.

      x86_64 is encumbered by too much baggage is its problem. It'll be dead in laptops pretty quick smart for 99% of users. It'll be a very long while for all the desktop uses since a lot of that baggage is needed for extremely wide compatibility.

      Apple isn't really even first in this, Microsoft has been spitting out Windows on Arm for many many years. Apple's big trump card is all the software they've got ready to go designed for iPad. Getting ARM native Windows apps was always a struggle for Microsoft, and emulation wasn't that fast, it's only recently become really viable. The custom hardware is nice, but it's the sort of thing someone can replicate reasonably closely (see Android).

  • phxsun on 16/11/2020 - 12:47
    +1

    How did Apple make such a monumental leap in the first generation of their chipset? I know they already have experience with their A series chips for their phones but how is it that seemingly Intel (and Qualcomm) just seem to only manage incremental improvements each year?

    Is it just a matter of innovation? Or laziness on the part of Intel?

    • chiefbodge on 19/11/2020 - 16:36
      +1

      Is it just a matter of innovation? Or laziness on the part of Intel?

      The problem is with the x86 architecture that intel / amd cpus are based off. They just can't ever be as efficient ARM - this is due to them being CISC (instructions can take more than 1 clock cycle) vs RISC which executes one instruction per clock cycle making it more efficient.

      This isn't the only thing at play here, it's also a matter of Apple being to offload various tasks to the co-processors (gpu / machine learning etc..) and having big little cores for better efficiency.

      Qualcomm has been making some great mobile chips, not on Apple's level of course but that's probably because even if they created a chip to be used in laptop / desktop they wouldn't have a buyer for it anyway so there'd be no point.

      The future on desktop / laptops is not x86 and most likely will be ARM (or another RISC based processor).

      • scotty on 19/11/2020 - 20:57
        +2

        CISC vs RISC

        I would think most modern CPUs are super pipelined RISC at the core with an ISA decoder on top to translate instructions. Also take M1 for example — it can run x86_64 instructions with Rosetta 2 faster than Intel Macs, which is just a software emulation layer.

        Apple is definitely innovative here and I would expect them to spur the CPU development of other companies as well.

  • casho on 19/11/2020 - 13:01

    Those speeds are insane! https://youtu.be/UxSI45eeAts

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