eBay Buyer Opens a PayPal Dispute after Receiving Item and Gets an Unbelivable Result

LFuzor on 15/10/2020 - 00:35

Please tell me what you guys think of this situation. The results simply just blows my mind of what scummy people can get away with.

So I sold an item on Ebay 2 months ago. It was brand new and sealed. The buyer paid for it after winning it through my Ebay auction.

The buyer paid through Paypal with their credit card. Once money was received, I sent my item off through the local post office. Item was very well packaged and sent off in an Australia Post medium box with tracking.

Buyer received the item and we gave each other positive feedback. No communication with buyer of any issues since…

Fast forward 2 month and its now October, I suddenly receive an email from Paypal with buyer initiating a dispute. Apparantly they believe and have told their credit card company that our transaction was "not authorised"…

I explain to Paypal of the entire situation and provided them with my tracking number and post office receipt (lucky I actually kept it). I informed them that our transaction could not have been "unauthorised" as the buyer made bids to win it off an Ebay auction, paid for it and then gave me a positive feedback…

Anyways I receive this email today (buyer details have been taken out). This just blow my MIND!!! Can a buyer seriously get away with anything, it did not matter that I had evidence that the item was delivered by Australia Post and I have a positive feedback on this!

Dear…

We've been notified by your buyer's card provider that Case PP-D-86142132 has been decided in the buyer's favour. As a token of gratitude for valued customers like you, we won't debit your PayPal account for the disputed amount.

Case details

Buyer's name:
Buyer's email:
Buyer's transaction ID: 5K756506TE489201U
Your transaction ID: 20J62632GW586670D
Transaction date: 9 August 2020
Transaction amount: $268.36 AUD
Disputed amount: $268.36 AUD
Thanks for your patience during this process.

Sincerely,

PayPal

General Discussion

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Comments

  • SF3 on 15/10/2020 - 00:40
    +4

    Could be fraud, as the buyer could be was using a stolen card, hence the real owner would reject the transaction?

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 00:43

      But this is a credit card transaction through Paypal. Paypal has verification processes in place for this sort of issues.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2020 - 09:36

        Not relevant though. PayPal didn't choose to refund the cardholder, the cardholder's issuing institution determined that the evidence PayPal supplied wasn't sufficient to refuse the chargeback, and forcibly took the money back. PayPal for some ungodly reason doesn't use 3Dsecure, so there's no real way for them to defend against a chargeback with a reason of unauthorised transaction.

        • DoctorCalculon on 15/10/2020 - 22:34

          PayPal for some ungodly reason doesn't use 3Dsecure

          While PayPal does not use 3DS for validation when adding a credit card to your PayPal account, they certainly verify that you have access to the card's account by making a small charge with a code that you need to enter to complete the process.

          For this reason, you will not be able to add a stolen card to PayPal.

          • [Deactivated] on 16/10/2020 - 08:27

            @DoctorCalculon:

            For this reason, you will not be able to add a stolen card to PayPal

            The reason why it's not relevant is that attempting 3Ds is the only defense against "cardholder not authorised" transactions where it is card not present and the merchant doesn't have actual ID on that specific transaction (e.g. a signed form with a d/l copy).

  • jdr on 15/10/2020 - 00:48
    +2

    Did the buyer initiate the dispute? Or was it the holder of the credit card that was used to pay for the item? Are these the same person?

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 00:51

      I have no idea but the Ebay name and Paypal sent to name is different. I have seen this before where a partner with Ebay account buys something to be sent in their partners name.

      • jdr on 15/10/2020 - 08:06

        Just curious, did the eBay buyer account have much history and is it still active? I'm glad that you didn't end up wearing the cost in the end.

        • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 10:03

          Yeah thanks. I'm a lot more thorough with the feedback ratings now, don't think I will sell to anyone with less than 10 ratings from now on. This account actually had around 50 positive feedback so I really don't know whats going on there.

  • djoz on 15/10/2020 - 00:50
    +30

    Title of this thread is more like Clickbait!

    • bdl on 15/10/2020 - 01:18
      +11

      "EBAY buyer opens a Paypal DISPUTE! After receiving ITEM, you'll NEVER BELIEVE the result they got!!!!!"

      • [Deactivated] on 15/10/2020 - 09:37
        +3

        Actually it's "CREDIT CARD cardholder opens a CHARGEBACK! You'll NEVER BELIEVE whose side the bank is on!!!!!"

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 01:31

      There's no need to clickbait you. I'm not getting anything or trying to sell you anything

      • ilikeradiohead on 15/10/2020 - 03:35
        +14

        It just reads like it's been taken from Buzzfeed.

    • NotaSpender on 15/10/2020 - 04:33
      +1

      Unbelivable

    • follow on 15/10/2020 - 06:40
      +11

      Doctors hate him!

      • Hardlyworkin on 15/10/2020 - 07:51
        +10

        You WON'T BELIEVE what happens next!

  • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 00:54

    Paypal is giving me "a token" of gratitude for being their customer and didn't deduct the money from me. If something like this happens again, are they able to not give another token?

    • bdl on 15/10/2020 - 01:19
      +5

      You can post in the ozb forums and tell us all about it then

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 15/10/2020 - 01:54
      +11

      token is more of a metaphor. basically they are saying "Don't worry, we are pissed too, but we will wear the cost because the transaction was legit on your side and want to keep you as a client"

    • brendanm on 15/10/2020 - 07:27
      +1

      As has been posted before, you go to the financial services ombudsman. It is PayPal's job to verify credit cards, not yours, that's literally why you use PayPal.

    • tomsco on 15/10/2020 - 08:01

      The thing I don't get is… is this good will? Or is this PayPal's seller protection in place? I thought as long as you listed correctly, sent via tracking, etc, they wouldn't hold you liable for this.

      • akyeeeahdude on 15/10/2020 - 08:34

        Yeah, it's Paypal's seller protection at work.

    • DoctorCalculon on 15/10/2020 - 22:36

      So, who wears the cost of this fraud? PayPal or eBay?

      • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 22:55

        It was supposed to be me but Paypal ended up wearing it for me. Ebay couldn't give more of a damn if they tried. Ebay's buyer's protection lasts a month but credit card chargebacks last up to half a year…

        At the end of the day, this sort of cost just gets passed on to all consumers who buy from stores that also uses Paypal. These stores will work the fees into their retail pricing.

  • carwashhair on 15/10/2020 - 07:15

    Paypal at pains to show their 'grace' and 'largesse'…. that said, this is where the 'protection' paid for by paypal fees comes in. Not just for buyers but sellers choosing to use paypal.

  • EightImmortals on 15/10/2020 - 07:29
    -2

    Safer to use BTC or another crypto or cash only?

  • MS Paint on 15/10/2020 - 07:42

    Looks like a perfectly functioning and fair financial system to me.

    You are not out of pocket and the person with the stolen credit card details is not out of pocket.

    Karma will catch up the the buyer.

    • whooah1979 on 15/10/2020 - 08:02
      +1

      Karma will catch up the the buyer.

      Only for those that believe in voodoo.

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 09:38

      Thanks for your reply. My only issue is whether they are still willing to do this the next time it happens. It reads from their email like that they are doing me a once off favour. If this is the sort of result that buyer can get from chargebacks, you could almost do this with any and every purchase…

      • tomsco on 15/10/2020 - 11:02

        As per my reply here, this sounds like PayPal seller protection. Look that up, and I believe as long as you follow the requirements, you should be protected from credit card fraud (at least).

        • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 11:16

          Thanks. Yeah I'm hoping for this, as I sold a couple of items over the last few month to people with almost no feedback ratings.

  • whooah1979 on 15/10/2020 - 07:58

    we won't debit your PayPal account for the disputed amount.

    You provided enough evidence to support POS which meant that PayPal didn't deduct the chargeback from your account. This is a win. What more do you want?

    • CyberMurning on 15/10/2020 - 08:40
      +1

      he wanted the buyer to burned in hell

  • thatonethere on 15/10/2020 - 07:58

    The scenario does sound like a stolen credit card if you got positive feedback from the "buyer". But PayPal just ate the cost as the credit card company took the money back. At least you were not out of pocket.

    Good guy paypal…

  • donbot on 15/10/2020 - 08:49
    +1

    When selling, only use paypal for what you're willing to lose. Otherwise, accept a lower price via gumtree and cash.

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 09:45

      I get what you're saying buts its not like I'm choosing to use Paypal. Ebay does not allow for cash anymore. Their whole site requires only Paypal (like they get a commission or perks) and people buy and sell much more expensive items. Its like saying every seller on Ebay is willing to lose out.

      I had this item posted on gumtree at $250 for 2 weeks and I've found that gumtree has almost no viewers.

      • whooah1979 on 15/10/2020 - 10:16

        Ebay does not allow for cash anymore. Their whole site requires only Paypal

        This is incorrect.

        Sellers are not required to accept Paypal and they also legally allowed to accept cash as a form of payment.
        https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-welcomes-changes-…

        The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission welcomes the announcement by eBay that it will change the ebay.com.au website and payment policies to remove the requirement that sellers offer PayPal as a payment option.

        https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-proposes-to-revok…

        • Jugganautx on 15/10/2020 - 10:32

          exactly… cash on local pickup is still a thing

        • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 10:39

          I know you've linked me to the government site but why say what I've stated is incorrect? Have you actually used the site at all?

          It really doesn't matter what the government say or want to say, the fact remains the below messages is what I get when I change to cash on delivery:

          As of 11 November 2019, eBay will no longer be offering cash on delivery. Please select a different payment option.{e71938-1081563x}

          Also this is what I get when I change out of Paypal to bank transfer:

          Payment options - To list this item, you need to accept PayPal or other approved electronic payments as a payment method.

          • whooah1979 on 15/10/2020 - 10:44

            @Fuzor:

            other approved electronic payments as a payment method.

            The answer is right there. Link your payment gateway and tick the Local pickup box on your listings.
            https://www.ebay.com.au/help/selling/posting-items/setting-p…

            • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 10:52

              @whooah1979: I doubt many sellers have a personal payment gateway. This point is pretty moot. Ebay also puts in a warning for payment gateway:

              Use these ONLY if you have a pre-existing merchant credit card account. The buyer must contact you during checkout to complete the credit card payment offline.

        • Quantumcat on 15/10/2020 - 11:50
          +1

          No, you have to accept either PayPal or credit card. If you are not a business you're not going to have a merchant credit card account (it is expensive) and won't be able to accept credit card payments. So for regular people, PayPal is forced to be accepted. You can say the item is for local pick up only but you still have to allow people to pay by PayPal. And if you refund people you lose like 30c each time

          • Tomato on 15/10/2020 - 19:17

            @Quantumcat: Yes, i sell stuff on eBay too n hv to choose PayPal as the default option before can choose other options. However, i hv seen other sellers that don't hv a PayPal option but only state COD local pickup only…wonder how they do that…

  • Bignudge on 15/10/2020 - 09:24

    Inb4 OP's next post: " Help, PayPal account says it's permanently limited".

  • garetz on 15/10/2020 - 10:26
    +4

    ebay and paypal is a joke now, sellers have 0 protection.

  • picklewizard on 15/10/2020 - 12:54

    You didn't lose a cent, there's nothing here to be mad about?

    What do you want out of posting this?

    • Fuzor on 15/10/2020 - 13:42

      I dont want anything! Why do people think I want something. Its just the financial system is terrible for situations like this. I just wanted to see people's reaction to this and vent my frustration a bit. Someone pretty much got the item for free and in the end, the party that loses was either Paypal or myself. This took 2 weeks to be decided so it could have been either one of us. Paypal could easily have said no and what would I have done in that situation then. I can't speak for others but to me something don't seem right, even when Paypal takes a cut like this.

      We all pay for it in the end when Paypal fee goes up for stupid nonsense like this.

      • picklewizard on 15/10/2020 - 13:56
        -1

        If PayPal were the ones to lose out of this, then really, everybody wins.

  • mini2 on 16/10/2020 - 09:36

    Lodge a case with FOS or whatever they're called nowadays. You might get somewhere but the consequences would be your PayPal account and any future ones might be as good as gone.

    • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 10:03

      Lodge a case with FOS

      That is silly.

      OP didn't lose any money in this transaction. Why waste the AFCA resources on a frivolous complaint?

      • mini2 on 16/10/2020 - 10:16
        +1

        I missed the bit where OP didn't lose any money. Yeah well carry on.

  • vikvance on 16/10/2020 - 11:41

    Interesting that the bank decided in the card-holder's favour.

    My own experience with trying to get a chargeback (from Citibank) has been very disappointing, with Citibank deciding against me, despite a clear-cut case of a merchant charging my card without authorisation.

  • blackdiamond on 19/10/2020 - 11:43

    This is actually a very common scam at the moment.
    A lot of small businesses are getting slammed with PayPal disputes and credit card charge backs and also proving that the customer received the items and some even have conversations and emails thanking them
    Etc. Its to the point a lot of businesses are disabling PayPal. Unfortunately they can’t stop the charge backs but are filing police reports. It’s a joke how they ALWAYS side with the buyer

  • petry on 19/10/2020 - 11:50

    maybe not be the right place to ask but what about the use of expired credit cards? i'm seeing a lot of use of expired cards for a reason.

    many are claiming that the banks are behind this but since expired cards are not allowed to be used anymore in subscriptions or periodic payments how can they be used years later and accepted by the banks currently?

    whats the legality? Sadly paypal avoids this occurring of course…

  • Jstrrrr on 20/10/2020 - 21:28

    It really sounds like the card was stolen… so while the item was received by the buyer, the card he/she used wasn't his/hers.

    So the person initiating the dispute, isn't actually the scamming buyer, it's the cardholder. So the buyer didn't both get away with this getting the product and be successful at the chargeback. They were two separate parties.

    In the old days, before Paypal, when this happened, the seller will actually need to reimburse the card issuer - the scammer is gone. The original cardholder is left with a bill they didn't want to pay. The bank didn't want to cop the debt. So the seller, who took money for the product, gets the debt - effectively, leaving the seller out-of-pocket to the extend of the cost of the product that was scammed away. From the bank's perspective, they have to do that. Ultimately, both the scammer and the seller profited from this crime. And they can't catch the scammer, only the seller. In theory, the seller and scammer could be in cahoots quite easily - you need both a payer and a merchant to complete transaction.

    I am not calling you an accomplice by any means, but that's the explanation.

    So the outcome has actually been favourable to you in this case… celebrate the fact.

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