The culture of this site - Negativity Vs Positivity

thanratt on 30/07/2008 - 09:21

It seems this site has lots of strange protocols that you must adhere to - bit odd I think considering you are only trying to help people save money. I must say it does seem hard to impress anyone here. Personally, I’m grateful to anyone taking the time to post a deal which will alert me to the fact that I could save money. Doing on an analysis on the product offered, whilst helpful, seems to result in much negativity - an aspect of the site I really dislike, but certainly a common theme with some on here.

Not sure if it’s just me, but I certainly sense a degree of hostility here and I have been thinking over the past 2 days that perhaps that’s why the posted bargains seem pretty thin on the ground of late. When I do come across a ‘bargain’ I will no longer rush to post it here - very wary.

PS - I’ve probably posted this comment in the wrong place!

Site Discussion

Comments

  • neil on 30/07/2008 - 10:01

    Can you give us some examples?

  • elcheapo on 31/07/2008 - 00:57

    get over it thanratt :)

    posting something vague (for upcoming sale) without pricing & availability just add more confusion, but, I basically consider the value in the post, if it's something to wait for, then I am looking forward to it.

    oh, neil, it's taken from this post:
    http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/5707

  • kcyw on 31/07/2008 - 01:23

    I guess people just don't their time(and money) wasted. That's to be expected from people looking for bargains.

    You wrote that you dislike product analysis with negativity, even if they are helpful… That's a bit confusing for me. Don't we all want helpful analysis?

  • gabbyh on 31/07/2008 - 08:57

    Think it makes sense that it is harder to impress the ozbargain community than the average person in the street eg. it is far more difficult to impress someone that knows about sites like staticice.com.au and shopbot.com.au than someone who usually gets all their IT gear at Harvey Norman.

    • scotty on 31/07/2008 - 09:13

      I agree with gabbyh. Every community is different, and I found OzBargain community is usually a bit more cynical for a number of reasons. People came here for a bargain (and often likely it's the only reason they are here). So if they see something that is not, they'll say it. Postings in the ozbargain community can be sometimes border-lined on being "spams" because of all the business owners trying to promote their products here. Thus people often put quite a bit of analysis on each posting.

      As of your CotD post, I am only suggesting to delay the post specifically for the CotD deals, because lack of information in their promotional emails. I can't really say that it is a "protocol". But rather, it is an exception to the protocol (which is posting good bargains/freebies) because of how the CotD newsletter works.

      Cheers,
      scotty

      • [Deactivated] on 31/07/2008 - 11:19

        I would agree with both Scotty and Gabbyh while also noting there is some truth in what Thanratt says as well. If you look at the most popular deals they tend to be freebies. These also get positive votes past the cutoff or expiry date, which in itself is valid as it's a way to express thanks and encouragement.

        With products being paid for then personal values come into play, like what features the product has compared to others in the market. In a true sense a bargain is good value, which is features PLUS price. A freebie tends to be a bargain based on price as it costs nothing and only bettered by being paid to use it.

        I guess the true protocol here is the understanding that - if it doesn't add it detracts. So if there is something wrong with the deal, like its a scam etc, then I'll vote negative to indicate that. But if it's because its a PC rather than a Mac then I'll refrain from voting, as that's a personal assessment.

        The others here have different 'standards" and I have to accept that, and while I personally would like to be forward notified about COTD deals, maybe a better posting is to advise people how they can subscribe to getting advance notice themselves.

        All that said like Thanratt, I can understand it does get a little dishearting when you share something and you are attacked for that sharing, but thats life and we all have to handle it our own way.

        • neil on 31/07/2008 - 13:35

          Well said Mr. Rudd. ;)

  • QQQ - CatchOfTheDay on 31/07/2008 - 14:24

    May I say something here - I promise to stay neutral ;)

  • thanratt on 31/07/2008 - 22:45

    Thanks to all for all the interesting comments in response to my post.
    Obviously personal values come in to play and what one perceives as a bargain, the next person may not. I find it crazy that a freebie such as a slither of a brick paver is congratulated, whilst a deal where a saving of over $100 is dealt with negatively. I agree OzPete, 'that's life' but it seems nonsensical to me.

  • mynameislee on 03/08/2008 - 14:54

    I completely agree with you, thanratt. The negative culture of this site is appalling and simply discourages companies from promoting deal on the site, or even having the promotions at all.

    We’re currently giving away around $20,000 of free services, but my post on here is full of criticism, and it’s even coming from people who will take up our offer! It doesn’t make any sense!

    We probably will continue having these promotions in the future, but we won’t be letting the OzBargain community know about them. It’s just not worth the trouble.

    "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

    Lee

    • scotty on 03/08/2008 - 21:29

      Hi Lee.

      I agree that the so-called "culture" here at OzBargain can be discouraging for companies from promoting deals. However please understand the culture here is an organic product of the community itself. We are consumers, and we are not affiliates to business. Otherwise I would have run OzBargain like an affiliate site with hard sale phrases all over the place. I doubt this is what the community wants.

      As of your recent promotion — let me say that it is actually doing very well!!! 14 votes (at the moment) shows it is actually quite popular — remember not everyone click through is a member, and not every member votes! The criticism is all about spelling out the real cost after the free trial period, and note that no one has voted negative on that deal (yet).

      As of criticism, I guess we all need to take up the fact that we can't please everyone. Well, as a merchant you are trying to promote a product to please a consumer. As an admin of this community site I am trying to please both consumers who felt dissatisfied because of the level of "spams", and merchants who felt discouraged because of the criticism in the forums. Darn that's hard. But fortunately these are only minorities.

      "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

      If you do not wish to have unlimited-space.com to be featured on OzBargain, you can request it to be blacklisted. No one will then be able to post any deal from your site(s).

      Regards,
      Scott

    • elcheapo on 03/08/2008 - 22:36

      Lee,

      In contrary,

      What appalling the most that poster/seller that cannot take a little bit of truth, criticisms and other's opinion. They whine here and there why their deals are not voted more.

      Mate, the truth is that your hosting pricing is sux and get over it. You should be happy that you got 14 positive vote and NO negative votes (yet), most deals here not even get to 10 positive vote.

  • thanratt on 03/08/2008 - 15:20

    Well said Lee. Perhaps your post might make 'negative' bargain hunters think twice before slamming special offers posted here - if it doesn't appeal to you then move on to something that does. Of course this does not apply to 'real' discussion to alert potential buyers of pitfalls, but I'm sure this can be done in an objective way by simply stating facts rather than opinions.

    • saine on 03/08/2008 - 21:40

      Sure, if a listing is a bargain, then it deserves a postive vote. But if you submit something on here to sell and it's not the best deal around, people are going to negatively vote on it. The whole idea of the site is the voting system - it's not like a catalogue or paid advertising where, yeah, I would read and move on. This is a community site and we're a pretty well-informed community at that! Most of us know what's a good price, and what's just average.

      Speaking as a 'typical' user, I don't want every product every person sells listed here - I just the best deals!

      • pauly on 03/08/2008 - 22:21

        But if you submit something on here to sell and it’s not the best deal around, people are going to negatively vote on it.

        If this is the case, then fine. I for one strongly oppose to blatant advertising-type posts without any genuine bargains. However, sometimes you tend to get people who vote negative for the pettiest, and sometimes unjustified, reasons (e.g. deal expired when it clearly has not). Also, some would vote negative just to lower the vote-count because they are after the weekly prize for the most-voted deal. And let us also not forget the people that vote negatives without even commenting on why they think that way.

        I don’t want every product every person sells listed here - I just the best deals!

        Sellers aside, you also have many 'typical' users here who post deals that they find a bargain (which others might not) actively on a daily basis too. Sometimes those posts also get shot down with sarcasm, which is completely unnecessary. I'm not saying that people should be discouraged from voicing out their opinions, in fact it would be better if they pointed out a better deal, but they can leave the attitude and sarcasm out.

  • thanratt on 03/08/2008 - 22:55

    Perhaps some rules on voting negatively need to be in place. E.g. In order to post a negative vote the poster must:
    State a valid reason
    Refer to a bargain (include the link) which is listed if they're stating a better deal is out there
    Refrain from using sarcasm
    State facts not opinions
    Perhaps the number of negative votes they have cast that week could be included also.

    Hmmm. Good suggestions I think. I might post them in suggestions and see what happens.

    • elcheapo on 03/08/2008 - 23:02

      wow.. so many rules for voting negative :) - yeah, and let spammers flourish because we have to state every frkkn reason, alternate links, and btter deal than those spammers.. are you for real ??????

  • thanratt on 03/08/2008 - 23:10

    Well if a deal irks you enough to vote negatively on it elcheapo then I would think going a little bit further as I've suggested shouldn't be too hard. Perhaps making it a bit more time consuming would prevent pathetic negative votes for those trying to win prizes. I'll ignore your personal comments elcheapo.

    • neil on 03/08/2008 - 23:15

      I've only seen that happen once and the user was removed and votes canceled (from what I remember). Mods can check to see if multiple accounts are being used to promote/demote deals, so I don't think that's an issue.

    • elcheapo on 03/08/2008 - 23:21

      thanratt my friend,

      please read the rules.. voting is not counted toward ANY prizes and never my intention anyway if there should be one.

      and another rules, you always need to comment first before you can cast any negative vote anyway…
      hence..
      most people have already done their due diligence anyway by stating their comment, reason and better deals out there, before they voted negative.

  • thanratt on 05/08/2008 - 05:08

    elcheapo,
    indirectly, negative votes can help people win a prize by bringing down the result of a popular deal which looks like winning, thus putting their own 'deal' in the running.

    As you said, 'you always need to comment first before you can cast any negative vote anyway…' which is what I suggested save for the difference of having a 'valid reason' for the negative vote.

    It's amazing to me to see the turnaround in your thinking, now you have reviewed the rules.

    elcheapo: 'wow.. so many rules for voting negative :) - yeah, and let spammers flourish because we have to state every frkkn reason, alternate links, and btter deal than those spammers.. are you for real ??????'

    It seems I am as real as the site owners.

    • elcheapo on 05/08/2008 - 11:57

      Read my post carefully friend :)

      The rules is only for commenting before voted negative.

      Your ridiculous suggestions ask everyone not just their comments, but the full essay as to where, how, what better deals out there.

      But fortunately, most OzBargainers do their "Due Diligence" as responsible netizens to state why, how and what better deals out there, without being "FORCED" to follow your suggestions.

      Again,

      The impediments of those gazillions rules applied before people can vote negative to any deals simply encourage scammers and spammers to barrage OzBargains, and of course, we don't want that, do we?

  • [Deactivated] on 05/08/2008 - 08:19

    Ok its a public site, people do react to others. Like ebay when people get emotional about someone outbidding them.

    It can be - he voted negative on mine, I'll vote negative on him etc

    I posted an Ipod deal and it gets 6 votes a few weeks later another posts a similar deal and it gets 13 votes

    Yep more positive votes gives higher visibility and more visits.

    So elcheapo while you are correct, thanratt is also right, but as scotty says - its a public site and people can do what they like. And that means some people will move away and not post deals, for which we will all be poorer, but apart from telling everyone to be open minded there is little that can be done.

    I just think the prizes and voting concept may have run it's course, the deals are coming because its a benefit to all here. I cant post as many as before as others beat me to it, so that's great.

    Comments are important on all deals, and in reality anyone taking up a deal should read the comments first to at least get other takes on the deal. Scams etc can still be identified by the mods, who do read the comments. there are now 4 Mods.

    So maybe this is a time to rethink the concepts - and a thread to discuss this might be worth opening.

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