How Much Do You Know about Networking Cables? DickSmith Online CHALLENGE!

Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 13:11

Hi all,

So I purchased a 30m cat6 Ethernet cable from Dicksmith Online, this one: https://www.dicksmith.com.au/da/buy/homefashion-30m-100ft-ca…

I bought it to run down the side of the house through flex conduit to connect my Plex server to the router at the other end of the house. There was a bunch of issues with the install (location and height of the house etc.), I finally get it installed, cut it down to length and noticed it had no internal cross separator, like every other cat6 cable I've seen.

I thought, well it was a cheap price but its still cat6. I crimped the end with a cat6 terminator and couldn't transmit. Then I got suspicious and went a bought some "cat5e" clips and got a connection. The connection speed is only 1Gbps…

Now to me and all the reading I've done (I am open to being wrong here), is that cat6 cable provides speeds up to 10Gigabit under 55m. Yet this cable only provides 1Gigabit. I have tested with an Officeworks cat6, same length, and same end points and I get 10Gigabit.

Can someone tell me how they can sell "category6" cable when, I bet if I cut a 1m length I wouldn't get cat6 speeds.

I am currently in a back and forth email chain between the third party seller "HomeFashion" about the difference. They argue the difference is speed (citing Wikipedia: which funnily confirms the speed vs distance spec). I said yes but also cat6 has a tighter twist (which theirs does not), and generally a separator to eliminate crosstalk etc. which would then allow the official rated 10Gigabit to occur.

I feel like its selling a bottle of wine that looks like wine, smells like wine and is rated to be x% of alcohol, only when tested its alcoholic content is half of whats indicated on the bottle because the brewer didn't do their job properly.

I'm currently studying a Network Admin course and pretty sure we covered this. And I'm pretty sure the email author doesn't know what their talking about.

Am I wrong here?

Thanks for any input in advance.

Computing

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Comments

  • whooah1979 on 02/10/2020 - 13:22
    +3

    I crimped

    The problem is DIY.

    The first crimping didn't work while the second did. That is a 50% fail. Buy some quality rj45 and try again. Make sure the cut is straight and the colours are correct.

    cut it down to length

    Cutting the cable shorter voids the warranty.

    • Forkinhell on 03/10/2020 - 11:09

      The problem is, it says "30M RJ45 CAT6 Ethernet LAN Network Cable 10/100/1000Mbps compatible" which means it is compatible up to 1Gbps (1000Mbps), not the 10Gbps (10,000Mbps) that you are wanting.

      End of story

  • whooah1979 on 02/10/2020 - 13:37
    +11

    https://www.dicksmith.com.au/da/buy/homefashion-30m-100ft-ca…

    30M RJ45 CAT6 Ethernet LAN Network Cable 10/100/1000Mbps compatible!

    The cable that you purchased is rated for 1Gbps and you wonder why they don't work with 10Gbps.

    I'm currently studying a Network Admin course

    Perhaps you should finish your certificate because schooling others in networking.

    • Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 21:28
      +2

      Jebus man, I don't think I came across arrogant? How exactly was I schooling anyone?

    • Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 21:45
      +1

      "cat6 cable provides speeds up to 10Gigabit under 55m"

      so given it is under 55m and 10g ports, how can it be called cat6?

      ****see above….."(I am open to being wrong here)"*****

      • dimitryp on 03/10/2020 - 11:19
        +3

        OP is correct, cat6 is capable of 10G under 55m in length. Dick Smith dont get to make up what speed a cable has, the cable "cat" definitions are an international standard from the TIA.
        See cat definition table here
        https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/600x325…

        The different categories are capable of different Hz as well, and i think this is what switches use to determine which speed to negotiate.
        I have a 10G switch, and it gives me nice diff LEDs depending on what cable/speed it's detected.

        Either the cable is "not as described", or as another commenter mentioned, a crimping issue. It's very easy to crimp wrong, i've done it wrong many times.
        OP, could you try crimping again?

  • websterp on 02/10/2020 - 13:37
    +2

    My first question: Do you have 10G cards/interfaces at both ends ?

    • foxmulder on 02/10/2020 - 13:46
      +2

      He confirms the same setup with different cable has better speed, thus those ends should be correct

      • websterp on 02/10/2020 - 13:51
        +1

        I'm referring to something like this
        You can use the best CAT6A cables money can buy but if your router and plex server has only 1GbE interfaces you cant never achieve 10G.
        With the OP I'm well aware the issue is with the cable but to achieve 10G you need end to end 10G supported hardware not just the Cat6 cable.

        • smashman42 on 02/10/2020 - 13:54
          +2

          " I have tested with an Officeworks cat6, same length, and same end points and I get 10Gigabit."

          That pretty clearly shows they have 10g cards on both ends and the cable is at fault, yeah?

          • whooah1979 on 02/10/2020 - 14:00

            @smashman42: Officeworks cables are rated for 10Gbps.
            https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/comsol-cat…

            It supports 10 Gigabit Ethernet

            The cable that op purchased is rated for 1Gbps which is the speed that they got.

            • smashman42 on 02/10/2020 - 14:05
              +1

              @whooah1979: Yes, the cable is why they don't get 10Gbps

              So we agree, yay

            • Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 21:32
              -2

              @whooah1979: Hi 1979, (great year)

              Isn't cat6 supposed to reach 10Gigabit speed?

              So I'm trying to figure out if the advertised speed is wrong?

              If it is cat6, then why is it advertised at only 1Gbps?

              • HelpMeiCantSee on 03/10/2020 - 08:16
                +1

                @Goremans: UP TO. It’s a standard. It’s dodgy marketing but still legit. You can have a cable that doesn’t meet the 10g standard But does meet cat 6 standards.

                It’s a regulatory issue. Kinda like USB. Can be up to a speed, not minimum speed- it’s the standard of the internals.

                Clear as mud?

                • Goremans on 04/10/2020 - 15:18

                  @HelpMeiCantSee: Mm bugger. As others have said I think I should have spent a little more on a better quality cable. Thing is it's normally how I do things, ie. Do it properly =do it once.

                  Buuttt…. I'm a sucker for a bargain (or what I thought was one).

                  Brings into question what is a bargain. A deeper philosophical question I've seen debated on OzBargain quite a lot. A relative thing I suppose. Or cable "categories" are relative.

  • smashman42 on 02/10/2020 - 13:52
    +4

    Sounds like it was Cat5e to me, no internal divider etc - but good luck getting anything out of them.

    Sure, the advert said "Cat6", but it also said "10 Base-T, 100 Base-T and 1000 Base-T" with no mention of any faster speeds - that should have been a red flag to you before buying it, yeah?

    How much is your time spent back and forth on emails worth vs buying a good cable elsewhere and being done with it?

    If it is a 3rd party seller (marketplace listing, so like eBay or Amazon 3rd party sellers), can't you just leave negs and be done with it & reuse the cable between some gigabit only devices somewhere?

    I mean, if the principal of the thing (them having a fraudulent ad) is worth it to you for you to spend hours of your time trying to take them to your state's Fair Trading or whatever, power to you shaft the bastards. I personally couldn't be bothered with something worth so little cause I value my own time and mental health higher than that.

    • Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 21:35

      This is true, I wondering if its even worth arguing with them. I saw the max speed but I guess part of my thinking was the descriptions with cheap sites like theirs aren't always proof read. And with a late night purchase my brain went with the "cat6 that's fast (10Gbps).

      Your right probably not worth it.

  • Godric on 02/10/2020 - 15:02

    While sort of on topic, where can one purchase 30m PoE cables?

    I've googled but i can only find Cable Rolls of like 300m,
    Unless any of these are PoE but as i don't know much about cabling and nothing that specificaly says 'PoE' i can't tell ;/ JayCar

    It's to put up Security Cams

    • nanonoise on 02/10/2020 - 15:55
      +2

      Looking for something that doesn't exist. For the most part PoE will just work over any standard network cabling. It's a little more complicated than that, but modern standard cabling connected properly will be fine. I probably should throw in some disclaimer about making sure you get a licensed cabler if you are thinking about putting cabling in-walls etc…

    • PonyTable on 02/10/2020 - 15:58
      +1

      You don't necessarily need a specific advertised or branded as "POE" cable unless you plan on running some cable outside of conduit outdoors or to specific devices (Unifi have disclaimers about warranty if you dont use shielded externally) can also depends on how long the cable runs are.

      For basic POE stuff - (which most retail CCTV cameras are) any decent network cable will support POE. What cameras are you planning to use?

    • Godric on 02/10/2020 - 16:15

      Thanks for replies and the info,

      But yeah this was just for basic stuff, to use on one of Reolinks offerings, likely their RLC-410W model

      • PonyTable on 07/10/2020 - 09:55
        +1

        Can confirm that even Cat5 (not even cat5e) Cable will work with the Reolinks, they are only 100Mbps devices so you don't even need a cable capable of 1000Mbps.

        However its worth jumping to Cat5e at least for the sake of future proofing a little, this will give you Gigabit speeds should you need it in future, which would be a while off for domestic CCTV.

        The Reolinks also have a RJ45 Socket hardwired, so you will need to get connectors and a crimping tool to terminate the cable correctly.

        As Leo Getz Says below, use a solid core cable, and as everyone else says, you need to use a licenced data cabler, whilst people think its low risk there is a chance that these cables could unintentionally carry live mains current (as they are essentially a copper cable), and cause potentially cause fire, injury or death, in a worst case situation.

        • Godric on 07/10/2020 - 16:10
          +1

          Cheers for the info sounds like you know your stuff!

          I'll take the advice and get a pro to come and connect it all up then

    • HelpMeiCantSee on 03/10/2020 - 08:19
      +1

      Do yourself a favour and just buy a 305m roll. You won’t regret it. Plus, much cheapiness per meater!

    • Leo Getz on 05/10/2020 - 11:57
      +1

      Please use solid core cable for long fixed runs.
      This would typically go from a patch panel to a data outlet, but at home you may just have the ends terminated with RJ45s to plug into your switch and edge devices.

      Patch leads have braided cores so the cable is more flexible but best kept to shorter lengths.
      You can of course buy really long ones but don't use those where POE is important.
      It also depends on the power draw and if the devices need POE or POE+.

  • abb on 02/10/2020 - 16:40
    +1

    Is there any printing on the cable itself? Does your crimp comply with Cat 6 standards? (Only a few mm of stripping, etc)
    If you've observed the twist rate does not match Cat6 spec, then yeah, you got a Cat5 cable.

    Lesson for next time I guess - don't cut a pre-made cable down to size, especially without testing! Just coil up the extra.

    • Goremans on 02/10/2020 - 21:40

      Yeah I'm definitely going to test first next time for sure.

      TBH I'm not sure if the tool does (I assume so) https://www.bunnings.com.au/antsig-rj45-crimping-tool_p43602…

      Yeah I compared to the Officeworks cable which is WAY tighter twist.

      Should have gone more expensive.

      That's the bargain hunter in me.

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 03/10/2020 - 08:21

        Get a real tool! Go online buy a proper ratchet crimper and be done with it. Bunnings will do in a pinch, but muuuuuch better quality out there!!

        • Goremans on 04/10/2020 - 15:05

          Yeah it was last minute purchase to get the thing hooked up. Not many other options in my town beside them.

          I'll definitely invest in a better one as my studies progress.

          The cert 3 is sooooo basic (even with my enormous chasm of networking knowledge, ie none). But if I go onto diploma and beyond it would be worth it for sure.

      • peteru on 03/10/2020 - 18:40
        +1

        There's more to crimping tools than just being able to do 8p8c connectors. You need the appropriate die for the connector as they vary between manufacturers. Wkipedia has a brief mention of this.

        Unfortunately the Bunnings tool description does not tell you what it crimps.

      • abb on 03/10/2020 - 20:37
        +1

        That crimper will do the job, but you could be using a $1000 professional crimper and still not meet spec by doing it wrong. Post a picture if you're not sure :)

  • bweiss on 03/10/2020 - 10:03
    -3

    I would recommend that you don't make much noise about your actions.
    It sounds like you've broken the law.
    I believe you have just performed work requiring a Restricted Cabling Registration whilst clearly not having this registration.

    https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/structured_home_cabling

    https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2014L01684/Html/Text…

    My advisement is to engage an appropriately qualified, licensed and registered cabled for all such cabling work.

    • Goremans on 04/10/2020 - 15:00

      Wow, you would be fun at parties?!

      Surely the nanny state can't stop me, on my own property, with non-live wires screwing into the side of my own house?

      Who would enforce this law? Would the police really waste a magistrates time on a single ethernet cable run down the side off a house?

      • bweiss on 05/10/2020 - 07:44

        Interesting that you make this into some kind of personal attack. Inferiority complex much?

        I've clearly linked you to references on the matter.
        As to who would enforce it, that would be the ACMA.

        • Goremans on 05/10/2020 - 09:43

          Tbh with such robotic and formal tone that you write with, it's hard to tell if your being sarcastic.

          I don't believe I've broken the law. I'm not a criminal.

          I think it's a pretty unusal post, I assume to inform me on how much you know about the matter.

          I'll wait for the ACMA to knock on my door. I bet they monitor these forums, shouldn't take long.

          Thanks for your helpful advice.

  • dimitryp on 03/10/2020 - 11:25
    +3

    Not sure why OP is being downvoted, OP is correct. Cat6 should be capable of 10G under 55m. I have 20m runs of Cat6 at my house to my 10G switch and it's all working nicely at 10G.
    Not sure if a cheap manufacturer is allowed to make cables that are only capable of the min defined speed rather than the max defined speed.
    Could still be a crimping issue though.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/600x325…

    • Goremans on 04/10/2020 - 15:07

      Thank you! This is what I'm trying to convey. I'm totally open to having screwed the termintors. I'm very new to installing cables… And networking in general.

      … But I thought they would need to meet the spec that the category is rated too.

  • mavack on 03/10/2020 - 17:16

    The biggest problem with cat5e cat6 cables when they don't perform to spec is the crimp itself.

    The cable noise with and without an internal divider is mostly nulled by the twists.

    Cut it and re-crimp it again, and if you dont believe me take the working cat6 cable cut that and try crimping it yourself and see how good it works.

    • Goremans on 04/10/2020 - 15:13

      Can I ask, are there cat5 specific terminators and cat6 specific terminators?

      Because I used my "cat6" and it didn't work on first go, then went to the store and bought what I thought were cat5e caps and it worked. Could have been a coincidence.

      Which made me think that it really was a Cat 5 cable to begin with?

      • mavack on 05/10/2020 - 16:50

        That's actually a difficult question, generally the connectors are much the same. There is a difference between stranded and solid conductor plugs thou.

        "Generally" cat6 cables have a thicker wire gauge so depending on the plug itself it may not actually fit.

        The cat5e/cat6 specify the tested characteristics of the cable including the plugs.

        I say, if you can wire up 8 coat hangers into a 8p8c connectors and test it with a cat6 tester, then you could call it a cat6 cable. (not going to happen)

        There is no rule saying a cat6 cable must have a divider core, or the gauge only that it meets the performance criteria specified.

        There have been good cat5 installs that were later retested to cat5e standards and there might be good cat5e installs that test up to cat6 standards.

        • Goremans on 07/10/2020 - 19:42

          Ok this make sense. Because the cat6 connectors when crimped (and I did take my time), looked a fraction of a mm too big and the pin didn't penetrate the cable.

          When I purchased "cat5" connectors there was no problem. Connected first time.

          Seems like they can call them anything.

          This is photo of the so called Cat6 I bought from them? https://imgur.com/gallery/fOvbkH5 (maybe the blue and light blue Could be called).

          Thanks for your reply

          This according to: https://blog.router-switch.com/2016/04/ethernet-cables-cat-t… image from that site: Vs https://imgur.com/gallery/FrW5ZFW

          I think they just print cat6 on the side and sell it that way.

          • mavack on 07/10/2020 - 20:41

            @Goremans: It's more likely that it was perfectly fine before you cut the connectors off. You will never know unless you have an actual cable tester. Something like https://au.element14.com/fluke-networks/dsx-600-intl/cable-a…

            Yes 10G-BASET will say if it falls below the requirements for 10G-BASET, but only the tester will say if it falls below the actual cat6 standard.

            You can understand why most people don't bother testing cables to full specification thou. Given the majority of people only want 1gbit. And with 1gbit honestly you can do a piss poor crimp job wires hanging out and it will still work perfectly fine for gigabit, i have dozens of cables in the lab that look so busted its not funny, and yet run 1gbit fine.

            • Goremans on 07/10/2020 - 20:51

              @mavack: I find it strange that most people on here make such a big deal put of crimping incorrectly. It's not rocket science.

              I guess I find it hard that with such loose twists and with no separator, plus the cat6 connectors not seated properly and the cat5 did, surely this was a cat5e cable branded as a cat6.
              The site I linked mentions what you said. "As long as it meets the standards

              "Cable twisting length is not standardized but typically there are 1.5-2 twists per cm in CAT5 (e) and 2+ twists per cm in CAT6. Within a single cable, each colored pair will also have different twist lengths based on prime numbers so that no two twists ever align. The amount of twists per pair is usually unique for each cable manufacturer…"Many CAT6 cables also include a nylon spline which helps eliminate crosstalk. Although the spline is not required in CAT5 cable, some manufacturers include it anyway. In CAT6 cable, the spline is not required either as long as the cable tests according to the standard".

              I have re-crimped twice now and I still get the 1G speed. I get what your saying, in truth 1G is probably fast enough for my usage. But it's also the principle.

              • mavack on 07/10/2020 - 21:05

                @Goremans: Like i said a well made cat5e cable could be tested and conform to cat6 specifications.
                The standard doesn't say you need to have x twists or x guage wire, it just says you must have NEXT/FEXT/attenuation etc below x values.

                Depending on the cable manufacturer they might make a cable that barely makes cat5e/cat6 standards or exceeds it by a massive margin. The later is often more expensive. Or there are different methodologies.
                Cat6 company A uses thinner gauge wire less twists and a plastic core that separates the pairs
                Cat6 company B uses thicker gauge wire more twists and no plastic core
                Cat6 company C uses thinner gauge wires less twists and individually shields each pair (also know as STP)

                All 3 are totally different, but all 3 test to cat6 standards satisfactory and have different costs per metre, or the company converted its existing cat5e manufacturing line with minimal cost going down 1 path.

                Many ways to skin the cat6 :)

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