High Unemployment and Fruit Picking

nightqueen on 09/09/2020 - 10:39
Last edited 09/09/2020 - 10:40

With unemployment reaching 10% plus and more than 2 million Australians out of work, there seems to be plenty of jobs in fruit picking and at the abattoirs. With our immigration significantly reduced and lots of backpackers leaving australia. We have jobs available, have low entry requirements and low levels of training.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-09-07/backpack-in-you…

Do we need to increase the pay of these 'unwanted' jobs? We might face significant price rises of fruit and vegetables if they are left to rot due to a shortage of pickers.

Poll Options

  • 94
    Fruit picking or abattoir work & contribute to Australia GDP
  • 217
    Collect job seeker or job keeper and chill at home
Education & Work

Comments

  • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2020 - 15:04

    Unless you are some kind of champion athlete who can go at full speed all day, then it's not worth it. Try McDonald's, people always eat fast food and managers are always sick of teenagers even if they can pay them less. Only they do expect some stamina in that job too during busy hours.

    Abattoir work on the other hand, if you have the stomach for it and they run it clean, could be a more reliable way to earn money.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/09/2020 - 12:30
      +1

      Had a mate work in the abattoirs between leaving school in his mid teens and his early twenties. Said it was the best pay he could find access to.

      But RSI from slitting throats, and some PTSD from the gore, just kinda wore on him. There's a reason it's paid well. I think I'd pick the fruit. And I really, really don't want to be picking the fruit.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 09/09/2020 - 23:04
    -4

    this poll is way socialism is cancer to our society - essential, why work hard when you can get paid slightly less by collecting doll money for sitting on your ass

    • mavis30551 on 10/09/2020 - 12:41
      +2

      hahaha OK boomer

    • netjock on 10/09/2020 - 13:22

      Some people think if I am getting slightly less on the dole why work. Those are the ones that don't see the up side. I spoke to a young taxi driver once (I was a grad coming home from a business trip). He is an IT graduate, he makes $45k driving Taxi (this was like 2003) and graduate IT jobs were offering $43k so he'd rather drive a taxi. I changed the topic to something more mundane and cheerful.

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2020 - 13:38

        Different scenario he would be working to get relevant experience picking fruit isnt going to help your career if you have studied IT, if anything your more likely to sustain some sort of injury from the repetitive nature of the work

        • netjock on 11/09/2020 - 20:57

          Different scenario he would be working to get relevant experience picking fruit isnt going to help your career if you have studied IT

          I don't understand why taxi driving would be any more relevant to IT than fruit picking. You get injuries on all jobs if you work incorrectly.

          • Trying2SaveABuck on 11/09/2020 - 21:09

            @netjock: other job was relevant experience for slightly less money ….the fact you couldnt put two and two together actually makes me laugh

            • netjock on 17/09/2020 - 16:42

              @Trying2SaveABuck: What is the "other" job?

              There is only driving taxi's and fruit picking was mentioned. Being specific isn't hard.

              For you to think there is an "other" makes me laugh.

      • greatlamp on 11/09/2020 - 07:30
        +1

        Probably unable to get a graduate job.

        Not everyone is honest about their failures

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 10/09/2020 - 10:46

    Just chill at home guys don't worry our kids will pay the bill.

    • ozbjunkie on 10/09/2020 - 12:31
      +3

      Will defo be your kids.

      I ain't having kids.

      Too expensive.

      And you can't even send them to work in the factory any more. What has society come to?

      • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 12/09/2020 - 10:17
        -2

        Probably better that you don't have kids with that attitude mate.

        They aren't expensive till they start growing up anyway. Little tackers hardly eat anything and they don't need Burberry pushers or anything like that.

        I choose to spoil my kid cause I want him to be into the same hobbies as me. So I need two copies of everything. But the reward is much greater too.

        Too many people get tricked into infertility by thinking kids are too expensive or they are too much of a burden. They still managed to have plenty of kids through wars and the great depression and everything turned out fine.

        And when you're sucking your food through a straw in the nursing home the grand kids will be there to harass you too.

        • ozbjunkie on 12/09/2020 - 21:15
          +1

          Umm, if you think comments clearly made in jest reflect my attitudes, I wonder who will teach your children to develop a sense of humour?

          On

          I was that grandkid, visiting my grandfather when we couldn't look after him at home any more. Didn't see many other people there. Most other residents never had visitors. Besides, you're not really suggesting you have kids for your own sake are you? What happened to putting them first? Or is parenthood part of exercising the right to play mini me.

  • nephilim on 10/09/2020 - 12:44
    +2

    A good friend worked at a mushroom factory, $2 a kilo, so you can make 150-200 a day easily, issue is they force you to do "clean bed" 2-3 days a week, which is cleaning out old mushrooms. Those days are $50-80 max.

    Imagine coming into work to be told today you have to work your butt off for 10 hours for 50bucks?

    • greatlamp on 11/09/2020 - 07:34

      The 200/day isn't enough then. So it's basically minimum wage averaged out at 40hrs/wk, or less at 50hrs a week

      I would rather pick mushrooms then cut hair or fake smile while passing people burgers, but the mushroom farm isn't 10min down the road either

  • mavis30551 on 10/09/2020 - 12:47
    +16

    Ain’t no one going to keep paying their locked in lease Apartment, mortgaged suburban house, friends, Family, Kids, Pets , lifestyle to somehow pay for accommodation , move their whole life and travel to F**%ing whoop whoop to pick apples for 2 months for less than $10 an hour (farmers exploit the shit out of backpackers)

    Anyone who thinks it’s a good idea is in the same basket of people who think all (or most) welfare recipients are dole bludgers and honestly are just dumb as dog S&*%.

    Source, done fruit picking and not a moron.

    • nightqueen on 10/09/2020 - 13:03
      -3

      If we didn't have the bonus job keeper and double job seeker dole there would be more people having a go at fruit picking to pay their mortgage and bills.

      • mavis30551 on 10/09/2020 - 14:11
        +9

        If we didnt double the dole there would be 1 million extra out of work Australians realising the dole was never enough to support someone out of work and screaming for The Governments head.

        • ozhunter on 10/09/2020 - 14:20

          How did those people survive before the government gave out the extra $550/fortnight?

          • mavis30551 on 10/09/2020 - 14:21
            +5

            @ozhunter: I dont know. Probably not very well

          • ThithLord on 11/09/2020 - 13:57
            +1

            @ozhunter: By skipping meals and other savvy methods, I'd imagine.

            • Mr Haj on 11/09/2020 - 15:01
              -1

              @ThithLord: That's bs. I lived off centrelink all through my uni studies (which I now regret) earning $450 a fortnight from memory. This would pay for my share of rent, groceries, and I would even get drunk at least once a week.
              This cut would mean that families (assuming two parents) would be receiving $1700 per fortnight as a worst case scenario, assuming they are both out of work. To say that 80% of people are going to have to skip meals is a joke. Surely the only people that will really struggle are single parents.

              • ThithLord on 11/09/2020 - 15:59
                +8

                @Mr Haj: Don't know why SBS bothered writing the article, they should have just asked Mr Haj. Your anecdotal experience is far, far more accurate than any study ever could hope to be.

                Get off your high horse, dude. Not everyone is a student living in a share house splitting bills.

              • field1985 on 11/09/2020 - 18:56
                +2

                @Mr Haj: At uni you were receiving Austudy, which has completely different conditions, rates of pay and earning ability (how much you can make before payment is cut).

                You try feeding, housing, educating and clothing a family on $120 a day and let us know how it goes. Assuming two kids that's $30 per person… sure that covers meals, but what about rent, power, internet, rates, etc, etc???

              • Never Pay RRP on 11/09/2020 - 19:40
                +1

                @Mr Haj: You’ve got to take into account that the expenses of a young house sharing person are WAY lower than an older non-house sharing person (especially when kids are involved).
                Agree with you that 80% needing to skip meals seems too high though, but bear in mind the subtext of the survey is basically asking people on welfare “are you being paid enough?”
                Results will be skewed…

              • serpserpserp on 11/09/2020 - 21:59
                +2

                @Mr Haj: Costs at least $200 a week to feed a family of four. That is assuming you don't need to buy nappies or formula or other small kid stuff.

                There goes $400 right away.

                Rent for a place in the city probably around $300 a week for a family.

                Not much left over and we haven't even got to bills yet

                Being a single person living in a 3 or 4 bedroom share house 10 years (or more) ago is a lot easier to do than now. I'm sure you survived, but you weren't exactly living a sustainable life were you? You couldn't live off of $450 a fortnight now that easily.

            • ozhunter on 11/09/2020 - 15:57
              -1

              @ThithLord: Lol, that's still $250 more per fortnight precovid.

          • serpserpserp on 11/09/2020 - 21:53
            +2

            @ozhunter: They had jobs.

  • OzHunterNSW on 10/09/2020 - 12:47
    +2

    It is the greed of these get rich beyond all imagine farmers that has placed themselves in this predicament.

    If they can not harvest what the sow, then it is their fault… stop now blaming others for the farmer's greed.

    • netjock on 10/09/2020 - 13:24

      You know Apple trees and Pear trees you don't sow last year and harvest this year right? They have to be trimmed and sprayed regardless if there is people to pick them.

      COVID19 didn't fall of the fruit trees.

      There is dodgy farms out there but don't throw out the punnet of strawberries because of one bad one.

    • serpserpserp on 11/09/2020 - 21:52

      Well not exactly. Scale is something you want to achieve so you can guarantee the price you receive for your harvest. Being able to have Woolies or Coles as your offtaker means you are probably guaranteed a price but you have to be able to deliver a sizable harvest to get decent terms.

      Should farmers not expect to get paid well for their business? They do take on a lot of risk for what they do, it isn't for the faint hearted!

      • netjock on 17/09/2020 - 16:44

        Should farmers not expect to get paid well for their business? They do take on a lot of risk for what they do, it isn't for the faint hearted!

        I agree with you. But most people think everyone else should run some kind of charity operation.

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:03

      I've done a lot of seasonal work.

      Its not the farmers man. Their margins are so tiny, so scarily horrifying tiny. You would have to be literally INSANE to be a farmer, unless you just a part of a big corporation.

      They have to plant the shit, fertiliser it, water it, spray it constantly, prune it, thin it, harvest it. And then what? They maybe get $1 a kilo for apples, for the A grade stuff. For b stuff they get about 5c kilo if they are lucky.

      No the farmers are in hell. Its not them. Its the middle men, its the supermarkets, its the distributors. That's were all the moneys goes.

      • leiiv on 13/09/2020 - 00:41
        -1

        But that does not make any sense. Why are the farmers still the the farmer then? Could there be any other benefits beside the profit? Or are you saying that most farmers are now part of a big corporation? Ans why does it make any difference?
        There a few online shops claiming to be direct-from-farmers, but they all are selling things more expensive than the supermarkets.

      • netjock on 17/09/2020 - 16:47

        They have to plant the shit, fertiliser it, water it, spray it constantly, prune it, thin it, harvest it. And then what? They maybe get $1 a kilo for apples, for the A grade stuff. For b stuff they get about 5c kilo if they are lucky.

        Most people think of it as easy as jumping in the car, driving down to the nearest Woolies / Coles and it is there. Pick up and go!

  • Brendoo on 10/09/2020 - 15:09

    The Aus Govt has currently got special arrangements with some Pacific Island countries and many foreign workers are being brought in (exempt from covid rules) to fruit pick. I don’t think we have a problem here with workers, the traditional backpackers are being replaced with these Islander workers. Aussies just will not or cannot do this work, despite the huge unemployment.

    There was a story on exactly this on the ABC (I think it was ABC) last week.

    • GG57 on 10/09/2020 - 15:28
      +1

      That is an expansion to an existing programme of bringing in workers for this industry from various countries.

      The 'exempt from COVID rules' is a joke; the latest intake of workers is from Vanuatu which has not had any COVID cases, so they are taking the risks in coming here, and the programme was almost scuttled by Vanuatu until Australia agreed to support them if they did contract COVID.

      Some comments on this post are from people who have picked fruit etc., so not all Australians don't want to do it.

    • nightqueen on 10/09/2020 - 21:48

      Why do you think so many Aussies won't or can't do this form of work? I thought more than 2 million Aussies unemployed could help fill these job vacancies.

  • mjcoll123 on 10/09/2020 - 21:12
    +7

    I see the assumption a lot that those on the dole are lazy bludgers, probably also drug and alcohol abusers, living off the hard earned taxes of others. I don’t know what the stats would be like now, but before Covid I understand at least half the people on the dole were over 50 and had been tossed or bullied out of the workforce, as most employers want younger people. Lots of them have worked hard all their adult lives and are also sick, injured, disabled or otherwise vulnerable but don’t qualify for the appropriate assistance payments because the government makes it impossible to do so. This has been my own experience, only I don’t qualify for any government assistance despite multiple chronic health issues, a disability and now cancer because my partner earns more than $42K, and I can’t touch my super because I’m not actually dying yet. I’d find it very difficult to attend my cancer treatments (let alone do the work) if I were to move to the middle of nowhere to pick fruit.

    • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2020 - 12:35
      +1

      I'm sorry to hear mate. I thought the threshold for partners was like 80k now? Or have they changed it back already?

      • mjcoll123 on 11/09/2020 - 17:30

        Thanks. That’s only for those financially affected by Covid. The government were forced to raise the rates of and ease of access to assistance for those who lost their jobs to Covid lest a massive slice of the population realise just how hard they make it for people ordinarily.

  • HeyHeyHeyIsItADeal on 11/09/2020 - 01:21

    Who the hell would want to be a fruit picker who earns nothing when you can work 2 day weekends in retail and make more than they would? Saturday rate for aged 20+ is about $30… Lucky to be in Australia I'd say.

    • greatlamp on 11/09/2020 - 07:39
      +2

      Fruit picking gets $30 to fill a forklift pallet sized bin (according to working holiday people I have spoken to)

      They put up with it as a requirement of their visa, because they want to find a way to stay here permanently, or their cafe job pays well enough and they will rerurn home.

      Even the people picking the fruit wouldn't do it if it wasn't imposed on them.

      • Mr Haj on 11/09/2020 - 15:05

        you mean that they're doing it against their will? our farmers fly overseas and kidnap them?

        • greatlamp on 11/09/2020 - 17:33

          That is a very naive understanding of "imposed".

          They put up with it as a requirement of their visa

          They often have to quit higher paying jobs in the city to fulfill the requirements

        • mjcoll123 on 11/09/2020 - 17:34

          Does the term ‘blackbirding’ mean anything to you? I only found out about it recently myself.

  • tessel on 11/09/2020 - 06:56
    +10

    Wife and I picked apples for a few months. I believe it worked out to be about $7 to $8 an hour with both of us picking and working together. It's hard work if you aren't 20 something or extremely fit. Easy to hurt yourself as the ladders we used were solid metal and very heavy to move around. Started at 7am and went until about 330pm. Raining? Didn't matter, turn up and work unless the boss said go home. If you read the contract you sign it basically says they are free to let you go if you don't turn up regularly or aren't picking enough apples. Once apple season was over the work stopped. Where then? There was no other fruit in the area and I'm definitely not moving house to pick a different fruit for 3 months before moving again. I honestly don't blame people for not working on farms picking fruit. It's not a liveable wage and horrible work. It's also not a long term solution to unemployment, it's not even a medium term solution.

  • berry580 on 11/09/2020 - 07:27
    +1

    It means fruit prices needs to increase. Simple as that.

    • greatlamp on 11/09/2020 - 07:43
      +1

      They can't really. Supermarkets already import fruit that is cheaper than local.

      To pretend that Australians are patriotic enough to support local when it costs them more is wishful thinking. See all the manufacturing that no longer exists in Australia.

      • tessel on 11/09/2020 - 08:15
        +1

        Kind of how call centres for some industries were outsourced overseas? Or how some manufacturing etc moved overseas? I guess it's a chicken or an egg dilemma but I know corporations definitely aren't patriotic and will do anything to save a dollar. Different topic I know but how can you expect people to support local when their very jobs were sent overseas?

    • berry580 on 11/09/2020 - 17:31
      +3

      Lol, can't believe I got negg'ed.
      If imports are even cheaper. Then it means there's no place for a local fruit industry from an economic point of view.
      Australians are too expensive.

      • greatlamp on 12/09/2020 - 08:35
        +1

        Yes they are. A floating currency rate should rebalance the costs when the AUD tanks and makes us all cheaper. However when the currency is propped up by a single industry- like mining exports - this balancing mechanism can't function.

        The rest of the economy begins to crumble, eventually businesses and even entire industries leave, and the skilled workforce that supported those industries become obsolete.

        This has happened in other mineral rich/small countries before. Look up "Dutch Disease”. The mineral wealth in our country is taken by private foreign companies. Kevin Rudd proposed a mining tax, to keep some of it to help the nation - and was removed as Prime Minister shortly after.

        It is a serious problem when the next generation is going to be significantly poorer than their parents.

        The people struggling deserve more than "stop being inefficient capitalism doesn't care about your feelings!!!", because you will soon be in their shoes

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:05

      The entire system needs overhaul. The whole "it has to be perfect" or its thrown out has to be ended. Farmers get paid pittance for the produce they produce, all the price gets lost in the way, the distributors and the supermarkets

  • thesaver on 11/09/2020 - 07:39
    -3

    This would be a great job for the fat lazy dole bludger's out there lose some weight and earn an honest living.

    • berry580 on 11/09/2020 - 17:36
      +1

      From some ozBargainers' point of view, it's a right to collect the JobKeeper, and they're entitled to not do the job when they happen to be available.

      Way to go Team Australia. Let's Make Australia Great Again.

      • thesaver on 17/09/2020 - 12:47

        I think my comment was probably voted down by the people that fit into the category that I mentioned.

  • dmac on 11/09/2020 - 07:52
    +18

    ITT
    People who have jobs: Someone better pick my fruit, damn lazy bludgers!
    People who don't have jobs: I would work if there were fair wages and conditions.
    People who have done it before: It's not worth it unless you have no attachments.

    • tessel on 11/09/2020 - 08:17

      Spot on.

    • iamnewtothis on 12/09/2020 - 18:03

      Exactly!!!!!!

      What hasn't been mentioned much here as much is the additional costs of moving to the regions (i.e. accommodation near the farm when you are already paying a mortgage and/or lease that your likely locked into and would have to break) for short-term low paid work with no guarantees around how long you will be picking.

  • misu p on 11/09/2020 - 08:47
    +5

    I love how this was definitely written during what should be work time. OP get back to work and contribute to the GDP…. WTF are you doing writing polls online when you should be working? Is this kind of attitude is what is wrong with people in this country.

    See, I can do it too.

  • dufflover on 11/09/2020 - 09:10
    +1

    Maybe instead of JobKeeper/Seeker or at least changing the proportions, allocate some of that to provide the "lucrative" FIFO style pay that attracted all the miners and crap during the boom.

    Watch how quickly "boring manual labour" turns into "the great personal sacrifice I made".

    • Antikythera on 11/09/2020 - 13:10

      in the UK stood down workers who qualified for their equivalent of JobKeeper were able to volunteer to the NHS during the early stages of the pandemic. I'd absolutely volunteer for a program like that.

  • Brick Tamland on 11/09/2020 - 09:29

    I'd say its extremely challenging to makes these jobs desirable to locals. Especially when you consider that backpackers are essentially forced to move to regional areas as part of their holiday VISA's. So yeah its a great opportunity for them to pick fruit and make some money in order to stay longer and top up the bank accounts.

  • rr64 on 11/09/2020 - 11:32
    +3

    These fruit picking jobs have been impossible to fill with local workers for decades.
    It seems obvious that the pay and conditions are not good when you look at that result and remember the boring and unpleasant jobs people will actually do for min wage.

  • Dack Smith on 11/09/2020 - 12:10
    +1

    It's not worth it, the money sucks.

    Better to just get jobkeeper or job seeker, the government needs to drastically increase the two so as to match the average Australian wage of 87000 a year according to ABS.

    Chilling at home and the pub is much better with money, those high income earners and rich should share the wealth with us and everyone so we can enjoy too.

    Equality for all, money for all

    We all deserve to live good lives

    • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2020 - 12:37
      +2

      Interesting, you think the dole should be close to 87k? I don't think most people will work then

    • brendanm on 11/09/2020 - 13:27

      You don't know how averages work.

  • sir-screwball on 11/09/2020 - 13:17
    +3

    Fruit picking is a very hit or miss industry. When I was younger I did many of these types of jobs (fruit picking, tree planting, vineyard pruning) and honestly there are companies that thrash you for poor money, and there are other companies that pay well, have good conditions and reasonable targets.

    The way it worked when I did it is that the good companies filled up fast and slots rarely opened, and when they did, people who already worked there vouched for their friends or family who got hired. The slots were coveted and the rest of us slummed it in the dodgy employment until we got called up to the well paying job.

    That being said, well paying gigs NEVER popped up in tree planting, or vineyard work. They were always poorly remunerated and had high, stressful workloads.

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:06

      An good farm will have a waiting list that's often hundreds of places deep.

      Especially on like cherries, unless you know them or get in really early, forget it.

      All the bad places though? They easy to get into, cause they churn through people basically every day.

  • Baghern on 11/09/2020 - 13:39
    +3

    Problem is fruit picking options are too far away these days, with farms pushed our further and further

    When i was young my poor extended family would go out and do a giant family fruit picking day/weekend.

    No need for babysitters, kids get involved and help out as well

    Add to that todays industry has farmers abusing fruit pickers with the dodgy 'accommodation' they charge for that is compulsory, and the cost of transport.
    If you ignore the low wages, the fact is the farmers can't get extra income from the accommodation and transport

  • daddydirtsurfer on 11/09/2020 - 14:26
    -1

    You get nice sunbaking and lose alot of weight.

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:07
      +1

      You get some lovely skin cancer, that I can confirm :(

    • Dark Zeus on 16/09/2020 - 19:42

      That's sad. Do you want to die too early.

  • luffyex2010 on 11/09/2020 - 14:52

    I am happy to volunteer to work as fruit picker on the weekends at any berries farm with my family as long as we get paid and get to eat the fruit as we pick.

    Think of pacman going thru the farm, without the ghosts lol.

    • serpserpserp on 11/09/2020 - 21:48
      +2

      One for the basket, one for me, one for the basket, two for me.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2020 - 23:39

        Ultra high dose Vit C is a potent laxative.

  • xdigger on 11/09/2020 - 17:15

    The generous jobseeker and welfare system we have coupled with high personal income taxes disincentivises people from working a honest job.

  • Vote for Pedro on 11/09/2020 - 17:36
    +6

    Too simplistic. Fruit picking is not usually close to sizeable population centres to justify moving for the seasonal work.

    Ultimately though, as job keeper / seeker reduces the market should do its thing. If they pay enough, people will move.

    Unfortunately for decades fruit growers have been allowed to manipulate the market by having low paid foreign workers imported to do the work. This is a manipulation of the supply demand market locally.

  • Kegsta on 11/09/2020 - 18:19
    +12

    No sympathy for farmers here.
    2 years ago My friend (Aussie) and her boyfriend (American) went up to Queensland in a van to fulfill his requirements for a second year Visa.
    They applied for dozens of fruit picking jobs but no one would hire them as she was an Aussie and they had their own accommodation (Van) so they couldn't be exploited.

    They ended up working in a resort all the way up north north QLD.

    • netjock on 11/09/2020 - 20:59
      -3

      I am Australia and had somewhere to live and managed to do a season of picking. Nothing to do with it.

      • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:09
        +1

        Did you do it in QLD?

        Because, trust me, QLD is different. I've worked in every state but NT. And QLD has the worst of it, basically all contractors that exclusively hire backpackers/Asians because they are easy to abuse.

        Contractors in the fruit picking industry need a investigation, its wholesale systemic abuse being done.

        • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 11:39

          Makes sense QLD put the coalition in power didn't they.

          I don't consider QLD significant enough to really screw up fruit picking plans.

  • Slopshua on 11/09/2020 - 18:40

    HTFU and chill at home. Get some of dat tax back 🤙

  • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2020 - 22:31
    +1

    So if your a surgeon from America, yet chose to work in the fruit picking business in Australia (for gawd knows why or what reason) then you ain't skilled no more, and ya pruny fingers are not skilled also to the point that you grab a vine and pluck it.

    So no love for the surgeon then I guess.

    • Save 50 Cent on 12/09/2020 - 10:53
      -3

      Are you still high from last night? If not, please explain your point again. Thank you.

  • bataleon on 11/09/2020 - 23:41
    -3

    IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE… Solar farms pay way more than "real" farms. $2300 gross (net minus 15% for foreigners) per week for a trade assistant. Better yet, the government allows it to count towards their 88 days. Why wouldn't you? I've worked as a sparky on 3 solar projects in QLD and 90% of the labour is from Europe. As a point of reference, every project I've worked on has had +-200 trade assistants.

    That's 200 less people (per solar farm, of which there are many) that would've happily picked fruit and visited Bryon Bay in the past. The working "holiday" visa is no longer a thing. The foreigners don't care about holidays, it's all work now. If they take a holiday and be a tourist, they'll be missing out on money.

    If they were earning $15 p/h picking fruit they would happily take 3 days a week off and put it back into the economy, because (profanity) it, it's only $15 p/h. Whereas when they start earning $35 p/h things get real. They never take days off and all the money they earn gets deposited into a Euro bank account with which they buy a house after 12 months. Thanks for coming!

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 17:07
      -2

      You are talking about the smart ones. Better not tell everyone that is better choices.

      Way out there. No friends, no family, no lane way coffee houses, no fine dinning, now night clubs, no music festivals. $14k pa on JobSeeker is small price to pay.

    • iamnewtothis on 12/09/2020 - 18:19
      -2

      how many hours were you doing a week to gross $2300 as a trade assistant?

  • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 10:21
    -1

    The economic problem with growing unemployment is individuals who family units depend on.

    They can’t feasibly do these jobs due to geographical logistical reasons.

    Socially it is a problem for young people, and these roles don’t offer much in the way of personal developments. Sending people out to work the fields smacks of communism too.

    If unemployment continues to grow, military service for school leavers who don’t pursue a trade or 3rd level education could be a consideration

    • brendanm on 12/09/2020 - 10:38
      -1

      Yes, a tonne of people with no interest in doing military service, doing military service, is exactly what we need. Not like we need people to build infrastructure or anything.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 12:43
        -1

        Ironically that is a large reason behind military service. Puts discipline and structure in the lives of young people entering the adult world who do lack career prospects and motivation.

        This and infrastructure improvements are not mutually exclusive and it is a bit of a straw man argument to be honest

        • nightqueen on 12/09/2020 - 18:25
          +1

          With such high unemployment, I wonder if there will be more recruits to army reserves. It's good salary, accommodation covered and you get into good physical shape. Beats the low job seeker payment and get to learn new skills.

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 17:03

      Turning up on time, producing output to a target is not personal development? Giving JobSeeker and you can wake up whenever you want. Do a few interviews a week and accept a job offer is so much better personal development.

      Nobody is sending people out to the fields to work. Still freedom of choice. Plenty of people take JobSeeker for $14k pa.

      If I lost my job I'd think very hard and very fast. The problem is the longer you put decision off the less options (cost of relocation) you have once you run out of savings.

      Plenty of migrant workers overseas leave their kids with grandparents while the parents work and send money to raise the kids. It is heart breaking but those are real battlers and the kids come out to be IT workers, lawyers and accountants.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 17:11

        Remedial work isn’t personal development.

        Promoting the virtues of leaving your kids with their grandparents while going off to do remedial work is mind-boggling and it comes at a cost to the most important resource in society, children.

        Labour costs for such work would need to increase if needed, it’s basic supply and demand.

        • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 11:44
          -1

          Work is work and any work is a skill. Even if you want to do UberEats is a skill. Discipline to be on the app and out there between 11am to 9pm. You just can't go out at midnight and hope there is deliveries waiting for you between midnight and 9am.

          You don't seem to realise work is work and JobSeeker is no work. Maybe JobSeeker hourly rate is higher if you are just applying and attending interviews.

          People don't seem to understand opportunity cost of not work.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2020 - 12:11
            +1

            @netjock: "You don't seem to realise work is work and JobSeeker is no work"

            I really do. I can see all sides to the argument.

            UberEats etc, does not meet the definition of skilled labour. Don't shoot the messenger, that's just a fact. Despite the way this issue is being portrayed as black and white, it isn't. It goes without saying that welfare should not incentivise people to avoid gainful employment. I doubt anyone is arguing otherwise (despite some people framing arguments against such positions that have never been presented). But there are multiple factors to consider, and it is not prudent economically or socially to make rapid drastic changes to schemes.

            There isn't a simple answer to a complex issue. The only people pushing simple answers are, pretty much without fail, completely wrong and basing it on a foundation of ignorance. And usually right of the political spectrum. People here have actually suggested parents leave children with grandparents and move off to work fields for minimum wage. Aside from being economically flawed, that is socially abhorrent which will ultimately impact the tax-payer when it comes to societal cost.

            You also don't need economic qualifications to see historic precedent for forcing people to work irrespective of circumstance. Rudimentary high school history will have taught that. You also don't need any qualifications to know (and agree with you) that an over-generous welfare state is not a common sense approach either.

            • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 15:12

              @[Deactivated]:

              People here have actually suggested parents leave children with grandparents and move off to work fields for minimum wage. Aside from being economically flawed, that is socially abhorrent which will ultimately impact the tax-payer when it comes to societal cost.

              Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Chinese, Indonesians, Filipinos go to other countries to do unskilled labor like being laborers and maids (on ships, Singapore, Middle East and other countries) raising their children to be IT workers, Accountants, Lawyers and Doctors are wrong.

              It is one set of rules for first world and another set of rules for what we perceive as third world. Don't forget Australia might just be 50 years ahead of these countries and Anglo Saxon people used to leave their kids with the grand parents if you haven't read any literature.

              You also don't need economic qualifications to see historic precedent for forcing people to work irrespective of circumstance.

              Force why does everyone thing anyone is forcing people to work. The option is stay on JobSeeker for $14k a year or find a job (within that is an option to relocate).

              Wonder if your ancestors thought grow / hunt for food is some kind of right wing simplification and being forced

              Stop this joke that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.

              It is a foolish assertion that jobless should not move because they have friends, family etc. I don't think anyone in Australia (unless Aboriginal) can tract their heritage to someone who hasn't moved in the last few hundred years. Most people will have a friend or relative not living within their metro area.

              To believe you should be compensated for having friends and family around. If anyone lost their job tomorrow, consider the price of having friends and family around. It is the same price whether you are working or you are on JobSeeker. (If you're on $100k pa and JobSeeker is $14k. $85k is the cost of having friends and family around. One from you working 40hrs a week away from them, the other is you can spend 40hrs per week with them. Just take your pick).

  • brendanm on 12/09/2020 - 10:37
    -1

    Out of interest, how much do all the commies socialists think the UBI should be? Also, how would it be funded, given that the budget is running at a deficit currently?

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