Landlord Claiming Nappy Blocked Pipes

Hi all after advice again.
Sorry it’s another very long one.
Yes we previously had issues with our plumbing (sewerage spilling into backyard) which took them 2 weeks to fix for a job that took 2-3 hours. (we did not ask for compensation)

3 weeks ago I don’t know exactly as my phone was wiped and I lost all correspondence with the REA, we had an issue with our en-suite shower not draining I thought it may be hair so I took the cap off the drain and find toilet paper floating there. Notified REA, Landlords plumber (LL employs his own plumber he’s not connected to REA) came “fixed it” left. Didn’t actually fix it so we called REA, again he was called out and plunged the outside drain with a hose connected to our tap. Issue was fixed for a few days before the shower stopped draining again. This time we didn’t bother them just stopped using it and showered in the main bathroom.

Last Friday night partner went toilet and crap came straight up through the shower. I notified the REA through the new property me tenants website.

Saturday morning 10am give her a call as she didn’t see the maintenance request, she tried to get the landlord to send his plumber no one comes.

Sunday morning I message asking if she’s gotten in touch with him she replies she’s tried with no luck I respond I’ll be getting a plumber in myself if he doesn’t send anyone. By 11am Sunday she responds saying he’ll be here first thing Monday morning.

Monday comes 11am I message REA again asking when we can expect the plumber I tell her if no one is here by 5pm I’ll call a plumber myself. 5pm comes I call a plumber who can not take jobs from tenants must either be the LL or REA I message the REA asking if she can call on our behalf. She calls me and advises me to call the REA plumber she’s already spoken to him to let him know because she technically works for the LL she didn’t want it in writing. I call him he comes looks in the shower then has a look at the plumbing outside of the en-suite. He asked me what the previous plumber did I told him he had a hose connected to our tap and a plunger. He says the plumbing doesn’t look good to begin with and that something about the junctions being illegal. He has some sort of big spiral machine and puts it in the pipe and after an hour or 2 cannot get through the blockage. He says he’ll get his boys in with there camera on Tuesday to have a look.
REA messages later that night saying the LL wants to use his own plumber for the “further works”.

Tuesday 2pm LL and his 2 plumbers arrive with a shovel dig up the pipe LL leaves and returns once they’re finished. Husband was watching most of the time but not when they actually cleared the blockage. Both plumbers and LL tell husband it was toilet paper.

This afternoon I receive an email from REA alleging the plumber found a nappy in the pipe and he wants us to pay for both plumbers that came out. I give her a call at this point I’m fuming but stay calm as I know it’s not her problem. She herself does not believe it due to our previous plumbing issues. She tells me to email our response stating the facts. She mentioned the LL sent her a video of the water running through the plumbing but no photo of a nappy. I’m pissed because why would he not have told us and shown us while we were there. I honestly don’t believe it at all. Yes I have an almost 2 year old and she wears nappies but no we do not flush them down the toilet. What are our options going forward because we plan on fighting this all the way.

Comments

  • +3

    TLDR. Did you guys flush nappies down the toilet? If it wasn’t nappies then what did you guys flush down there?

    Conduits doesn’t block by themselves.

    • No we don’t flush nappies. And yes I know they wouldn’t block by themselves but we recently had issues with the main drains being damaged from tree roots which caused sewerage spilling into backyard. Plumbers and LL said it was toilet paper.

      • +1

        Lucky, there is pretty much no chance of the landlord winning this at VCAT unless he manages to actually come up with a photo of the nappy in situ or a statement from the plumber saying it was a nappy. State you've never flushed nappies down the toilet and ask for a photo of it. If he can't come up with it or a statement - case closed.

        • +1

          I don't think it's wise to operate on the assumption the landlord is clueless and has no evidence.

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: A fair point but Lucky probably knows if she flushed a nappy down the toilet. If the landlord does come up with a photo of the nappy or statement, sleuths below have worked out it could have been the child and Lucky will probably have to pay the money. Right now Lucky is needlessly stressing over this - with no benefit to the outcome either way. Equally I'm not suggesting Lucky abuse the landlord, simply that she asks for the evidence. There's nothing wrong with that.

  • +7

    Should have just got your own plumber in as an emergency, paid them, then claimed back from real estate agent.

    • I was going to do this but avoided it because I knew the LL would’ve gotten annoyed when he got the bill. Regret not going this route.

      • +9

        As a landlord myself can tell you.. its annoying when this happens.
        but saying that i make sure i get tradies out in a reasonable time, your lease would have a $$ amount that the agent is authorised and you are authorised to spend in the event of an emergency.

        and for the record, Crap coming up the drains in your shower when you flush the toilet is the very definition of an emergency

      • +3

        That would be their fault for not getting a plumber quickly. You can't have refuse coming into your shower.

      • There was $hit coming out the shower drain. If there wasn’t a plumber there in 24 hours it is more than reasonable to call one yourself.

        As for your issue, state in writing you never flushed anything that shouldn’t be flushed.

        Also your phone getting wiped (heh) shouldn’t mean you loose all emails. Who is your email provider?

        • Yes I know I should’ve just called one ourselves instead of waiting but I knew the LL would’ve gotten annoyed. Next time I won’t be so naive. Previous Correspondence was through text message.

  • +5

    See what the agent comes back with.. if LL is still expecting you to pay for plumbers
    Take them to your local CAT… the onus will then be on them to prove it

    • +1

      Yes I’ve sent my email through and am waiting to get back from the REA.

  • +4

    Just remember the kid could be chucking stuff down the toilet - eg toilet paper (a lot) or nappy or tissues. Kids did that to me once with toilet paper but was able to clear it myself.

    It would be difficult for a plumber to determine the blockage was a nappy if they used a eel or jet as it would be all torn up.

    Even if the LL gives up prepare for the lease not to be renewed at some point.

    • 100% see your point, had he shown us in person I would’ve said fair enough but the fact he spoke to my partner and never mentioned anything I’m sceptical.

    • +1

      my kids threw my nappies and a calculator into the toilet. lucky i had stopped them from flushing the toilet.

      • +2

        Aren’t you a bit old wearing nappies?

  • +2

    Do you flush wet wipes?

    • +1

      No, no baby wipes, no paper towel, no sanitary items, no tissues just toilet paper.

    • +3

      I managed department of housing properties for years - number 1 blockage of sewer services was wet wipes.

    • +3

      Flushable wet wipes are the greatest misnomer to ever exist.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-28/consumer-watchdog-los…

      Still not happy that they can continue marketing this when studies have shown they don't break down, like, at all when flushed.

      But thats ok because the taxpayer can foot the bill whenever the pipes get clogged.

  • +3

    OP. It's not up to you to prove you didn't flush a nappy. It's up to the LL to prove you did.

    Until they lay all their cards/photos on the table, you'll not know what they have.

    I'd suggest that if they have photos of water and toilet paper, you are perfectly in the clear. Those things are meant to go down the toilet. Photos of other things but not a nappy, goes massively in your favour.

    Stop worrying about upsetting the LL, they sound unreasonable and you are letting a lot of things slide for fear of getting them offside.

    You have many rights too you know.

    • Yes I’m eagerly waiting a reply hopefully from the REA tomorrow. If there’s no photo or video I’m going to dispute it. LL did send REA a video of the cleared pipes with water running through it but nothing showing a nappy.

  • +1

    I would be worries the LL mates/plumber would write a statement saying whatever the LL wanted.

    I would try get the REA, who sounds like she is on your side, to call the LL plumber on the low-down and get a verbal it was TP. Then at least you might be able to get a third party to refute a falsified statement from the plumber

    • Even then I’d fight it unless they can provide an image or video but I can’t understand why they didn’t just ask us to go outside and have a look then the problem would’ve been solved on the spot. REA told me he sent her a video of the water running through underground pipes (after it was fixed) but no image of any nappies.

  • Honestly you can still get your emails if your phone was wiped…. your emails will be in your inbox which has little to do with your phone….

    you dont have to pay anything, they dont have to renew your lease or give you back your bond.

    It depends on how much the plumbers are charging and how much you like living in the current place.

    • Our previous correspondence was through text messages unless we called each other not through emails.

      • +3

        Im a landlord and i have had good tenants and bad tenants in my time

        my advise it try keep all if not the majority of your contact via email esp to the agent.

  • -2

    Lets say I believe you and that you didnt flush the diaper down the drain….

    If this went to court it would be your word against theres and you do have a child and im assuming you have been living in the property for at least a few months so chances are VCAT will order you to pay at very least lose your bond.

    In real terms you should of call an emergency plumber but that ship has sailed.

    For me it all comes down to money - how much is the cost of the 2 plumbers (im guessing it would be expensive) and i dont know if LL insurance would cover something like that. Thus I can see why the LL is trying to pin it on you..

    So you left was these options

    • dont pay move out when the lease is up, pray no other major things break becuz LL might not be willing to fix anything dont ask for a reference. It is a renters market at the moment you might get a better deal and you will not have too much issue finding a better place if you ask me esp in Melbourne - u will lose your bond + cost of moving

    • pay the cost of the plumbers - weather you did it or not is irreverent if the LL takes this further i think the evidence is against you…

    • Negotiate say you didnt do it but you understand it could be costly offer to pay half without and admission of liability - if they go for it you keep the relationship good/ok with LL, will still get your bond and can stay or move out on your own terms (hopefully)

    The pay half is a tactic i have done to every tenate who has asked for anything from me that is outside my LL legal duties. Ie what a new washing machine etc. The idea is that im happy to pay half but all items stay in the house if they move out. As a LL i claim the loss against my tax and as a tenant i get new 'sh!t' for half the price.

  • +6

    I doubt understand how a nappy could even fit/flush down a toilet in the first place?!

    It seems physically impossible to me…only way I could image it was possible, was if it was a brand new nappy that was opened out flat and flushed immediately before it increased in size*? But then I imagine it would sort of float too much to flush in the first place? I repulsive live to test out my theory, but too chicken to.

    *I know this because I've accidentally put my toddler into the bath tub with a nappy on once, it balloons in size massively, quite quickly.

    • Good point. A newborn baby nappy sure. But a 2 yo size one would be bard to get down.

    • +1

      I don’t believe it either. My thoughts are if a nappy was flushed down it would’ve had to been an adult (which we wouldn’t do) because my daughter cannot reach the top of the toilet to flush it nor do I think she would have the strength to physically push a nappy down herself. I took her nappy off last night and held it over the toilet and it just didn’t seem physically possible that it could even fit.

  • +6

    You are a tenant

    You rent/lease the use of a property from a Landlord through a third party agent, who is working for the Landlord

    The Real Estate Agent IS NOT YOUR FRIEND AND IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE

    They are being paid by the Landlord to manage you in the best interests of the Landlord

    Gather your own evidence
    Write everything down chronologically
    Understand the black water is an emergency under ALL circumstances
    If you didn’t flush a nappy, then don’t pay a bill for it and don’t engage in endless discussions over it
    Again, the real estate agent is not on your side and is not going to gather evidence against the landlord
    The tribunal exists for this purpose.

    Reminder, the word Agent means acting on someone else’s behalf. In this case The real estate owner ie Landlord

    • Thanks for the reminder yes I know but by her call she didn’t believe it either. She even gave me tips of what to put into my email to highlight the fact we’ve had previous major plumbing issues and that it was most likely coincidental. Unless he shows us a photo or video of the nappy I’m not paying anything. I 100% believe the LL is lying and surely there should be consequences for it if he is.

  • Did you have any guests in the last few weeks that may have changed their kids and flushed a nappy? (Though that sounds unlikely)

    • Yes we’ve had guests over (just family) but they only use it if someone’s using the main bathroom so not very often m. Do I think they would flush a nappy? No because they’d have to take it out of the bin in the room then take it into the toilet with them which just seems unlikely. My daughter is the only one in nappies.

  • +2

    I would suggest you gather evidence - especially get a letter from the plumber you called. They mentioned an illegal connection/junction. This could be vital. My understanding, which is limited, is that sewerage has its own system and should not be mixing with the other pipes. It sounds as though they are connected and therefore the dodgy plumbing comment by your first plumber.

    As a tennant we were blamed for a leak by a dodgy plumber who was connected to REA. They blamed our mobile dishwasher for breaking a pipe behind the wall. It went to the small claims tribunal. i got letters from the Master Plumbers Association and the dishwasher's manufacturer saying that was impossible.

  • -5

    Dear OP
    The landlords claim appears to be 100% Im afraid.
    As you said you witnessed toilet paper piled up as part of the blockage but the blockage had not been cleared nor identified.

    Having cleared a stubborn blockage recently after 3 previous attempts of flushing and plungering I can fully understand whats going on as I went through similar circumstances but in my case it was roots getting into the sewer pipe which kept catching the toilet paper and so it piled up.

    The prior plumbers attempts forced the piled up toilet paper past the blockage but the main blockage obviously had not been removed.

    Subsequently, toilet paper starting adding to the blockage again after it was previously flushed past the nappy which is what you witnessed.

    So yes, until the cause of the blockage was identified and cleared, in this case a nappy, nobody could know.

    Unfortunately the nappy is the culprit and you are liable

    • +2

      Found the landlord.

      • Landlords usually have owned the property for a long time before the current tenant and hence have knowledge and experience from prior history my friend.
        This is what tenants overlook.

    • +3

      without a proper video or photos, how can this proven the landlords's claim is 100%.

      Plumber working for LL and without evidence, they can say anything IMO.

      • The plumber is independant. Doesnt matter who hires them.
        In a tribunal the member would take the plumbers word as evidence as long as they are licensed.

        • +1

          Without any evident?

          Even if the nappy found is the same brand as what Op is using, this can be an evident.

          • @SnoozeAndLose: Yes. Correct.
            The plumber prepares a written report as would any other expert.
            Typical they dont record the camera footage as its only a tool to see whats happening

            • +2

              @HeWhoKnows: I will let the landlord sue me then and see what happen, not sliding to OP or LL.

              • -3

                @SnoozeAndLose: Im just saying it the way it is.
                If you want to get yourself in trouble then so be it.
                The evidence is against OP Im afraid.
                A toddler in nappies…hohum

                • +1

                  @HeWhoKnows: Hope OP balance this and decide if they want to fight for it.

                  • @SnoozeAndLose: I intend to if they can’t provide evidence and still try to make us pay. Haven’t heard from REA today so we’ll wait and see.

                • @HeWhoKnows: Except there is no actual evidence showing a nappy was the cause of blockage. Only what the LL told REA.

  • +1

    We rented a place that regularly had blocked drains through no fault of our own. Plumber said it was to do with the old pipes and trees. Fortunately, my landlord was very proactive, and we stocked up on Aldi drain cleaner when it was on special.

    We bequeathed the remaining drain clear to the next tenant.

  • +3

    Having replaced some old terracotta sewerage pipes not too long ago, there are plenty of reasons why pipes would block without any misdeed by tenants.

    Ground shift leading to misalignment of pipes themselves, tree roots, cracked pipes falling into disrepair on general…

    If the house is old, all the above could apply.

    And even if it is a nappy, who says it's even a recent nappy? Where's the nappy? I don't know what a 2 year old nappy looks like, but I think I could guess the difference between one flushed last week and one flushed before you moved in.

    • Yes we’ll so far we’ve not gotten an official response from the REA. I did message her yesterday to see if she’d heard back from the LL her actual response: Nope. I would say don't stress atm. I think (REA plumber) was talking to him (LL).

      My honest thoughts are he doesn’t want to pay the invoice because the REA plumber I’m guessing is charging him full price for coming out after hours and I’m again guessing that it’s a lot more than what his usual plumber charges. When we had the sewerage spilling out from the backyard they dug up the backyard and laid in another pipe it’s only 2-3 metres or so from where they dug up this time. So I truly believe it’s coincidental.

      I’m eager to hear the reply from the LL.

      • If you're 99.99% sure your 2 year old didn't flush a nappy, and you have held one over the bowl to check the size, I would go the additional step of essentially trying to flush one down (obviously don't let go, make sure it is secure and retrievable) in order to confirm the idea that it's impossible.

        Once you're sure you're acting in good faith, I'd trust that you'd succeed in any tribunal dispute.

        If you're not sure, and an experiment shows it is possible, then conscience would dictate paying half or all the fee.

        Finally, the fact that they laid new pipe suggests the old one collapsed. Did you see what they pulled out? Was it PVC, terracotta?

  • +1

    The landlord is in cahoots with the plumbers setting you up lol .

  • +3

    I have over 30 years experience with plumbing and run my own business. I can tell you 100% there is no way the blockage was caused by a nappy and had to be dug up. If in fact the drain was blocked by a nappy this would have been easily cleared using either the Ridgid electric eel or using a hydro jetter. The owner or plumber is trying to pull a swifty and get you to pay for this.

    How old is the property? if its quite old it may have earthen ware clay pipes and they could be broken and have a tree root intrusion. 99% of the time when we dig to repair pipes its because they are damaged and broken and tree roots are growing inside. Ground subsidence is often the cause of pipes moving then eventually cracking, and this happens a lot with newer PVC pipe work.

    Good luck, and make sure you ask for photographic evidence, if they have none, flat out refuse to be responsible for the costs.

    • Thanks for your comment I’m not sure how old the property is and I’m unsure of what the pipes are made of. But as I’ve not gotten a response from the REA I’d say we’re in the clear for now. Your comment makes me feel heaps better but yes unless he somehow comes up with evidence (one week after the event) id probably challenge that too now.

  • +4

    Landlord ended up paying both invoices.

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