Relying on Children Translators Characteristics and Long Term Impact

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  vikvance on 29/06/2020 - 08:01

  +9

  Are you looking for ideas to help complete a uni assignment ? :-D

  • 

    ihbh on 29/06/2020 - 08:22

    To confirm or disprove what I've observed … some of the points are a bit leading but interested to see breath of experience.

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  philme on 29/06/2020 - 08:13

  +1

  Pretty much every Australian born person who's parents are ethnic and were migrants.

  my experience is parents (Chinese who lived in Vietnam) who could speak some English because of their work in Australia but for some odd reason decided to not try and improve their skills but rather rely on my translating services and expecting me to somehow know their exact intent for everything from negotiating the price of buying a used car to sorting out bills over the phone.

  As for characteristics of those requiring translations, I would say its more or less just laziness and convenient to push the responsibility onto someone else, then blame the translator (me) for any mistakes I may or may not have made because I did not understand their intent.

  • 

    ihbh on 29/06/2020 - 08:21

    more or less just laziness and convenient to push the responsibility onto someone else

    What's their level of sophistication? I mean if they needed to negotiate regularly (not in formal sense but with colleague, manager) or work in a team or discuss details, then they wouldn't be relying on a child to translate and would have made the effort to improve their proficiency over time (in a virtuous circle).

    • 

      netjock on 29/06/2020 - 10:13

      Given the opportunity to learn the only thing holding the mind back in the mind.

      Just as giving children in poor countries an education changes lives any little bit you can do every day will make a lot of difference over the long term. Never too late to start. See articles of retirees finishing university degrees. It just proves it isn't impossible.

  • 

    netjock on 29/06/2020 - 10:14

    I can validate that. They also depend a lot of social media like forwards of fake news on WeChat. I send people ABC / SBS Chinese or in their own language.

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  BBear53 on 29/06/2020 - 08:41

  For certain backgrounds, there's areas where they can go and just speak their own language and get by. St Albans or Sunshine for Viet for example. This puts them in a position where they don't feel like they have to improve their English too much and can rely on a family member on the odd occasion when the situation becomes more complicated.

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  Porker on 29/06/2020 - 09:03

  A lot more too it than (for example) laziness as mentioned by @Philme (above post). There are likely influences from; cultural, family history, personal (eg. age, education, confidence, learning ability, busy-ness, importance, convenience, etc) that make a decision.

  @philme - Just feel sorry for that he/she is in a position to feel that they're taken advantage of. I wouldn't say that this is the reasons for all other cases noting the above-mentioned considerations.

  As analogy, I know many managers or directors of companies that don't necessarily have a certain skill to do something which they rely on the lower subordinates to complete. In some cases, that doesn't make them lazy, they're just focusing on other aspects of the job.

  In @philme's case, it may very well be that his/her parents were focused on raising the kids, feeding them, getting them to school, doing what was necessary in their (parents') eyes to ensure child has best start to life, etc… and all within their current abilities as learning something additional might take them away from that.

  • 

    philme on 29/06/2020 - 11:13

    I was just providing an example of my own experiences and i know heaps of others in the same situation. I wouldn't say I'm being taken advantage of, It's more like being a scapegoat to be yelled at if something goes wrong.

    thats a horrible analogy to compare this to as it takes away from the emotional side of things. Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic in the analogy but there is no logic when your dad tells you to call up the electricity company to simply ask why an overdue fee was charged and when you do make the call and explain to him the overdue fee, he proceeds to verbally abuse you for not getting the company to reverse the overdue fee despite the fact that all they asked for was an explanation. Apparently knowing English is a superpower which he seemingly is incapable of.

    FYI I was doing this from primary school all through to finally moving out a few years ago.

    • 

      Porker on 29/06/2020 - 11:47

      I don't know you or your family to say what is right or wrong, history or otherwise.

      My message was just an acknowledgement to your feeling of being the scapegoat (as explained by you), taken advantage of or whatever the term may be (but appears to be skewed to negative) towards that aspect with your parents.

      I had a similar struggle with my migrant parents - not language issue, but the 'meaning/intent' issue. When they said to do something (for example similar to your electricity bill), although they said 'ask about', they actually meant 'take care of'. I resolved this issue with my parents by asking a few more questions of them, but again, I also know Vietnamese 'old school' parents too and acknowledge that the follow-up questions may result in further scoffing and barking.

      I perhaps could have written my earlier response better. It was moreso a message to OP that it's not just 'laziness' that may result in the language issue.

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  John Kimble on 29/06/2020 - 09:40

  +3

  I suspect it's just bloody hard?

  I couldn't imagine moving to a non English speaking country and learning their language as an adult (on top of everything else you need to take care of to look after your family as mentioned in the above comment from Porker)…my brain would likely explode.

  • 

    GG57 on 29/06/2020 - 09:53

    +1

    Good viewpoint.
    I've lived and worked in a few countries where English is a second language (at best), and it is extremely hard.
    That is why people tend to congregate in communities of like people (whether in Australia or another country).

  • 

    Porker on 29/06/2020 - 10:49

    +1

    English isn't as straight forward to learn as opposed to other languages. For instance, English relies on context which can alter the pronunciation of word, where other languages will simply spell it different or include particular accents on the letters to indicate the difference.

    EG. The word 'tear'.. It can either be 'fluid from your eye duct' or 'forcefully pulling something apart'. 'Minute' is time or tiny.

    Plus English incorporates a lot of other languages that some may not be aware of to pronounce correctly (eg. cafe, pilates, choir, gyro)

  • 

    slow on 29/06/2020 - 11:19

    If you didn't have a choice you would have to. I know refugees who started with no English and are pretty fluent within a year

  • 

    sahh on 29/06/2020 - 11:19

    +2

    Also a lot of migrants would be focusing on earning an income and putting food on the table ASAP and this could be done without mastering English.

    • 

      ihbh on 29/06/2020 - 16:36

      focusing on earning an income and putting food

      That's why I want to understand the characteristics of the relevant people.

      There's two ways of doing what you mentioned. Focusing on the short term and doing work that requires little English … forever, vs focusing on the longer term, maybe initially doing work that requires little English, but developing it so you can transition to work that requires more English and presumable better pay over time. Would these people in their own country, pretty much do the same thing and so it's not a matter of language but sophistication of the individual?

      • 

        sahh on 29/06/2020 - 16:56

        I think it’ll depend on their situation at the time of migration. My parents were in their late 40s and mid 30s, had 3 kids to feed plus 2 grandparents. They were successful business owners in their home country so I guess they couldn’t “become” a business owner easily even if they knew English well so there was no motivation on that front.

        They did attend English lessons when they first arrived, however I think to truely learn a language, you need to immerse yourself in it everyday - which is hard when they didn’t really “need” to.

        • 

          ihbh on 29/06/2020 - 17:07

          @sahh:

          didn’t really “need” to

          It's interesting that people mention this without understanding the strategic implications.

          Say someone is Italian and can only speak it. They have a network of Italian speaking suppliers and are happy with that vs having a bigger network of English and Italian speaking suppliers and be able to get a better deal, and hence over the ling term not work as hard, retire earlier, etc.

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  brad1-8tsi on 29/06/2020 - 10:00

  My great grandmother only spoke Italian / broken english and relied on everyone else. She was stuck at home raising 7 children in 1940s eastern suburbs of Sydney so her interactions with the outside world were minimal. When Great grandfather died she was financially done-over by his business associates. She just signed where she was told without knowing what the forms meant and suddenly the 4 houses they had became 1. Maybe they only had 25% equity in the 4 but we'll never know and she couldn't explain it.

  I can't wok out how people can live in Australia for 40 years and their english doesn't improve at all.

  • 

    netjock on 29/06/2020 - 10:27

    +2

    She was stuck at home raising 7 children in 1940s eastern suburbs of Sydney

    I would give her a break. Some people can't raise 1 child properly today with all the modern conveniences. The 1940s were a different time. Australia had a white Australia policy until 1970s.

    With explosion in technology in the 1990s even old people can learn something from DVDs and tablets / smart phones apps.

    • 

      brad1-8tsi on 29/06/2020 - 10:49

      She did what she had to and what was culturally normal at the time.

      The White Australia policy was mainly to keep out the yellow hordes of asia. For some reason it didn't apply to well tanned Sicilians. ;-p

      • 

        netjock on 29/06/2020 - 11:07

        The White Australia policy was mainly to keep out the yellow hordes of asia

        Think you misunderstood that point. Some things acceptable in the 1940s is not acceptable today. Just as they didn't have VHS & DVDs or TV in the 1940s.

        There is very little excuse today for not learning considering how much free information is available.

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  DarthAntz on 29/06/2020 - 10:31

  google translate

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  slow on 29/06/2020 - 11:14

  +2

  A fiend of mine has a similar situation. He and his parents have been here for 30 years and the parents speak little English. He does everything for them in terms of interaction with the outside world, whilst his sibling has chosen to do nothing. All their socialization is within their community. In his words they lack the confidence to try and speak English in public.

  Because he does it all and makes it so easy for them, them is no incentive for them to learn or become sufficient. He has contributed towards making them helpless.
  If he didn't do it they would just have to and as a result would develop.

  • 

    ihbh on 02/07/2020 - 08:17

    Agree, he's over-functioning (I've recently learnt of this technical word in the last couple of years) and he's being cruel by being kind!

    And on his death bed, he might realise that he's wasted his life during these moments.

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  [Deactivated] on 29/06/2020 - 11:58

  -1

  Its an eastern thing, western culture kinda throws family values in the gutter

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  poohduck on 29/06/2020 - 12:00

  Yes, I hate that. I've travelled and always tried to learn some language basics wherever I am. Also something of the culture and customs. Why are they here?

  However, there is one very good excuse or potential hardship; those who cannot read or write in their own language. This makes it very hard for them to learn a new language. In reality, they would have to learn to read and write in their native language first, or just learn to read and write (for the first time) in the new language. That is a much bigger commitment. They may also have a psychological hangup with not being able to read and write - they've lived with it for so long. It is the same for english speaking folk too of course.

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  [Deactivated] on 29/06/2020 - 12:59

  You should try asking on the subreddit AsianParentStories. A lot of people there are in or know people in those types of situations.

  I have a chinese australian friend and he had to translate mail/fill in forms for his parents, make appointments, translate with teachers/adults and other grown up things at a young age.

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  macfudd on 29/06/2020 - 19:34

  I'm not in that situation myself, but for a few years I had a job that involved receiving a lot of forms from elderly people. In the case of mistakes (about 60% of the forms) we had to call and explain what we needed to process the form.

  Where the person was not a native english speaker we had a translater service. But I only had to use that service literally twice in two years. Every other time the person upon hearing me speaking english went off and got their daughter or son to speak to me instead.
  From occasional comments from those kids, most of them found it frustrating, especially when legal stuff was involved where they needed to get their parents to give consent for them to even talk to us on their behalf. There were a number who claimed their parents could speak enough English to make themselves understood but chose not to speak it at home when they had kids to do it instead. Or their parents would wander off and leave their kid literally trying to guess what to answer on their behalf ('kid' in this case could be someone ranging in age from high school to 30's)
  It used to trigger a lot of fraud warnings too where we would get forms filled out in one set of handwriting with a totally different pen and handwriting for the signature. Sadly there were definitely cases where the kids would use that access and control to rip off their parents too.

  One lady where I did need to use the translator - her husband had recently died, she had no kids, he handled all their finances and most of their contact with the outside world. Felt really sorry for her, hopefully she had some friends, otherwise she was really stuffed.

  • 

    ihbh on 02/07/2020 - 08:14

    she had no kids

    And even if the parents had kids, if they can't speak English, then they're hoping/coercing their kids to marry within their ethnic group, otherwise they'll be like outsiders with the rest of the family.