New Car Negotiations Technique Help

Sawa on 22/06/2020 - 16:02

Hi,

I am in the market for a new 4wd most likely a Toyota Prado. Considering the current circumstances I was hoping to get a stunner deal but for some reason I am not able to achieve that. I know that Prado's are kinda popular but the combo of EOFY and Corona slowdown I was hoping for much better than what the dealers are offering.

I have bought a used cars from private sellers before and I feel I did well during those negotiations.

Any insiders tricks or tips anybody can offer me to close this deal asap. I am ready to make the purchase for a great price. Thanks all!

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Comments

  • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 16:13
    +13

    Only go in to buy when you are ready to plonk down the cash.
    Go in closer to the end of the month and look for the sales guy that still hasn't met their monthly target.
    Do your homework on what you are prepared to pay vs. what is a reasonable price.
    Aim for about 20% off but realistically expect to land around somewhere between 10~15% off.
    Don't use in-house finance as any kind of bargaining chip.
    Be reasonable with your offers and be firm.
    If you don't get the price you want, then thank them for their time, leave your details, tell them to call you if they change their mind and then walk out.

    Best deals are had on in-stock vehicles/old stock vehicles/run-out model vehicles. Special order and high demand vehicles wont have much in the way or movement.
    Look for brand new cars that have been registered to boost sales figures. A "demo" with 10km on it fits into this category.

    EOFY is a marketing stunt. Car dealers don't care much about EOFY and know that people will be out looking for deals to replace company vehicles. Dealers care more about end of MY/new MY release. That's typically in Oct/Nov.
    Covid has caused a weird backlash in the market, where there was a lot of consumer uptake on vehicles for various reasons, most of all the "not wanting to share a train/buss/tram carriage with mouth breathing germ carriers." This had the affect of balancing the market back out. But, you need to find a dealer who is hurting, so you may have to leave the city and find a country dealer that cant shift new cars…

    • fantombloo on 22/06/2020 - 16:57
      +1

      look for the sales guy that still hasn't met their monthly target

      What are the signs?

      • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 17:00
        +4

        The guy sweating bullets…

        Also, I go for a walk around the dealership and have a look for the sales managers office (usually a big glass room in the middle of the sales floor). In there, there will be a big whiteboard with all the sales people's names on it with how many cars they have sold for the month.

        Look for the guy with the least amount of ticks/strikes/lowest number… Ask for them…

        • fantombloo on 22/06/2020 - 17:24

          That second tip is something I will try next time. But as for sweating bullets, I've never found it easy to haggle with new car salespeople, and I think I'm generally a decent haggler. I have never detected a "weakness" with any new car dealer. (I have with used cars).

        • Bargainbattles on 24/06/2020 - 11:58

          I think they have a picture of your head in there saying beware of this shark hahah seriously though you are right .
          You want a Toyota they sell alot of cars so I don't think you can get a great deal on one sorry mate

    • Make it so on 22/06/2020 - 17:17
      +3

      20% is a bit of a long shot, don't you think?

      • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 17:25

        Absolutely, but it's a good place to start. That's why I said that you're likely to land closer to 10~15%, depending on how much margin there is or how long the car has been burning the dealers profits.

        • Make it so on 22/06/2020 - 17:28

          True, for a demo perhaps you might get close to 15%. Closest I ever got was 10% off a new current-MY vehicle. Sales guy swore he was losing money, and only did it to prevent the sale going to the other dealer. I actually think he may have been telling the truth.

          I agree that it does not seem to matter when during the year to buy the car…

          • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 17:36

            @Make it so: Best I ever got on a new car was during the GFC back in about 2008/09ish. I bought a Toyota Aurion for $31k when retail was $40k. Nearly 25%.

            Last vehicle I purchased was advertised at $25,888 and I ended up getting it for $19,888 (23% off). But that was a used vehicle. More margin to play with.

            • Make it so on 22/06/2020 - 17:41

              @pegaxs: Not bad. At the start of 2017, Aurions were reduced to about $27k, new. The dealer told me it was so cheap, they had people trade in their used Aurions, which had a guaranteed Toyota used resell price above $27k, in order to buy a brand new one and make a profit. I asked for a test drive, but he said he didn't have any left, and couldn't guarantee the price would remain the same if we got new ones. First time ever that a car sales man had no car to sell, and couldn't tell me what it would cost if he did. Most hilarious visit to a dealer ever.

            • AdosHouse on 22/06/2020 - 18:17
              +1

              @pegaxs: Damn that is pro level right there. On my Elantra I managed to get it for $23k down from $28k because it was a demo with a whole 35km on it, 12 of which I put on it for a test drive.

          • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 17:37
            +1

            @Make it so:

            for a demo perhaps you might get close to 15%

            My experience has been demos are only $500-1000 cheaper than the new cars.

            • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 17:58
              -4

              @salmon123: Probably because you phone your enquiries in..

    • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 17:31
      -1

      Only go in to buy when you are ready to plonk down the cash.

      Waste of time going into dealers. I've bought several cars on the phone and always happy with the results. You can play the field faster on the phone, than in person.

      Go in closer to the end of the month and look for the sales guy that still hasn't met their monthly target.

      Hit and miss strategy, because if the sales guy is having a good month, he wont give you a good price.

      Aim for about 20% off but realistically expect to land around somewhere between 10~15% off.

      It's a meaningless target. Take a look at whirlpool (or another forum) and find out what people have been paying recently.

      Don't use in-house finance as any kind of bargaining chip.

      No harm in dangling it in front of the sales person, but don't let it cloud your judgement, when you're haggling for the car.

      If you don't get the price you want, then thank them for their time, leave your details, tell them to call you if they change their mind and then walk out … you may have to leave the city and find a country dealer that cant shift new cars

      See above about playing the field via phone.

      My other observation is that every manufacturer will have a different promo every month, examples are 0% finance, free automatic, $1000 fuel card, etc. You'll probably get a worse deal on the car, when they have a 0% finance promotion (unless the 0% works for you).

      • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 17:51

        You might have "ok" luck via phone at the moment because if the lockdown and restrictions, but generally, why would a dealership give you their best deal over the phone if you're just going to phone the next dealer…

        You need to find the sales guy who is behind. I like aiming at the new sales guys. Also the overly enthusiastic can be a great tell.

        It's a target. Much like "LoOk aT wHiRLpOoL" is a target. It's a starting point, nothing more.

        Dealer finance is a rort. More often than not it's more expensive than outside finance and if it is cheaper, the difference is made up from your margin. As for your 0% finance example… No thanks.

        Again, can try the phone, but a bum in a seat at a dealership is worth more to the dealer than some random on the phone.

        • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 18:17

          You might have "ok" luck via phone at the moment because if the lockdown and restrictions, but generally, why would a dealership give you their best deal over the phone if you're just going to phone the next dealer…

          Normally the way it works is, you say "I got this price from another dealer. Can you beat it?". Surely enough, they phone you back with an offer.

          You need to find the sales guy who is behind. I like aiming at the new sales guys. Also the overly enthusiastic can be a great tell.

          I guess we'll have to disagree on this one. I don't get a choice in salesperson, because I go through the switch board and get whoever is available. However, I do phone every dealer within a 200km radius and get a pretty good deal every time.

          The one thing I will say is, the sale price isn't decided by an individual sales person. It's decided by the sales manager who has a bigger picture of how many cars they're selling in a given month, to make their manufacturers bonuses, etc. The sales manager doesn't care if an individual salesperson is having a bad month. You might be putting too much weight on your theory about finding the right sales guy.

          More often than not it's more expensive than outside finance and if it is cheaper, the difference is made up from your margin

          Financing in general is a rort. If you need financing, there are deals to be found at dealers. You can haggle more at a dealership, than you can at a bank.

          As for your 0% finance example…

          I think we're saying the same thing. Some people need financing 0% can be a good deal, even when you factor in the higher price on the car.

          Again, can try the phone, but a bum in a seat at a dealership is worth more to the dealer than some random on the phone.

          What's your strategy if you don't hit it off with one salesperson? It's not like you can talk to another salesperson at the same dealership.

          Go to another dealership? Becomes time consuming very quickly … I don't dispute your line about bums in seats, but most of the time sales people are twiddling their thumbs Monday through Friday and are happy to deal on the phone.

          • Make it so on 22/06/2020 - 18:46
            +1

            @salmon123: Agree about the sales manager deciding in the end. We once wasted our time negotiating a price with a sales guy over a long period. When we were done, he did the paperwork, following which the sales manager came down (with an attitude) saying he couldn't approve it, and the whole negotiation process started all over again. We walked over a difference of $150, and gave our business to a dealership that hadn't pulled any sales tactics on us.

            I should try this myself - sign a contract, and then pull out because my partner doesn't approve :)

      • BinkyG on 23/06/2020 - 08:43

        How does the dealer finance work? What are the good/bad parts? Cheers

    • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 23/06/2020 - 11:28

      Peg, in this instance, shush

    • pegaxs on 22/06/2020 - 16:27
      +4

      AuToExPeRt iS ThE BeStEsT!!!1!1!!1! i LoVE YoU JoHn!!

      Guy is full of shit. He even did a video recently about just how inept he was at finding people deals…

      Have tired to use his service on 3 occasions now, most recently about a month ago, and they were unable to beat the prices I was offered.

      Also, all Cadogan does is palms you off onto a company called Georgie, and they are useless. Was looking for a work vehicle and the price they offered was $37,280 (about $5,000 over RRP). Dealer offered me $31,870 ($200 under RRP)

  • Headless on 22/06/2020 - 16:49

    Give them your details and be prepared to walk away after showing interest or asking for a reduced price - actually just walk away after seeing it, plenty of dealers selling the same cars out there, one will surely sell at a better price to get the sale.

  • netjock on 22/06/2020 - 17:10
    -4

    I was hoping to get a stunner deal but for some reason I am not able to achieve that

    I am ready to make the purchase for a great price.

    Please make up your mind whether you want a stunner or a great price.

    Suggest you bring in a bank cheque with a figure on it and see whether they are willing to take it for what you are asking for, you will get your answer asap.

    • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 17:41

      Suggest you bring in a bank cheque with a figure on it and see whether they are willing to take it for what you are asking for, you will get your answer asap.

      WTF - this is a stupid idea. What name will you get the cheque issued in (don't say 'cash or bearer')? Then there's the hassle of cancelling it.

      If you really want to try it, use a personal cheque. Highly unlikely the sales person can tell the difference between a bank cheque and a personal cheque.

      • fantombloo on 22/06/2020 - 17:46
        +2

        Highly unlikely the sales person can tell the difference between a bank cheque and a personal cheque.

        Highly unlikely.

      • AdosHouse on 22/06/2020 - 18:20

        Except bank cheques are typed and not written, and the payee is the bank and not a persons name.

        • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 18:24
          -4

          Except bank cheques are typed and not written, and the payee is the bank and not a persons name.

          Yes - you and I know the difference between a bank cheque and a personal cheque. Thanks Sherlock.

          Do you think the sales person knows the difference? You have to remember it's the cashier or business manager at the dealership who takes the money, not the sales person.

          • AdosHouse on 22/06/2020 - 18:47
            +1

            @salmon123: So ordinary people on the internet know the difference, but ordinary people working at a car dealership don't, because they never buy cars/houses/anything with a bank cheque, or learnt about it in ordinary life like everyone else.

            • salmon123 on 22/06/2020 - 19:23
              -1

              @AdosHouse:

              ordinary people working at a car dealership

              Glad to know you think a salespeople (not the cashie/business manager) are "ordinary people".

              Even if they knew the difference between a personal cheque and a bank cheque, would it make a difference to the negotiation?

              • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 22:31

                @salmon123:

                would it make a difference to the negotiation?

                Yes.

                We prefer finance anyway.

                • salmon123 on 24/06/2020 - 23:57

                  @spackbace:

                  We prefer finance anyway.

                  I think the context was, would waiving a bank cheque or personal cheque in your face make a difference to the negotiation?

                  • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 25/06/2020 - 01:11

                    @salmon123: Wow and my brain was definitely exhausted when I replied, let me try again

                    would it make a difference to the negotiation?

                    Yes. No

                    We prefer finance anyway.

                    So again, repeating for clarity, whether you walk in with a fake cheque or a briefcase of cash, or just simply say you'll put a deposit down, we don't care. A fake cheque would be hilarious though 😂 but you would need an actual real one on delivery

  • life is suffering on 22/06/2020 - 17:46
    +7

    if you dont get the deal just walk out sing 'I DONT CARE i love it' loudly go to KFC and get a five star box cause you deserve it

  • Maxxiz on 22/06/2020 - 18:22
    +1

    Just shop around on CarSales etc. Most dealers now list on these sites. Be willing to travel, its worth it if you get the right price.

    There isnt as much profit in new cars as everyone thinks. Its not like the old movies where they buy it for $5000 and sell it for $30000. Alot of the time there is <20% profit involved. So aiming for 20% off is ludacris. You're more likely to get some accessories thrown in, aim for a tow bar, roof racks and some mats maybe, You'd be looking circa $2k at least for these items.

    JMTC. Others will disagree because of their one-off purchase ten years ago, but thats discussion

    Source: worked in the industry for multiple brands

  • Euphemistic on 22/06/2020 - 18:26
    +3

    If you want a Prado, go in looking at a Kluger and then get distracted by the Prado and get upsold. It works in Maccas.

    • ol mate on 25/06/2020 - 09:52

      They'll sell you the Kluger.

      Those are in run out with a brand new model already announced, and there's sufficient stock. Prado on the other hand…

  • Orico on 22/06/2020 - 19:21

    I agree with Euphemistic. Fall head over heels for the Kluger then keep giving the sales guy hints that you want the big cahuna.

    • Euphemistic on 22/06/2020 - 21:39

      “My wife wants a Kluger, do you think that’ll tow a decent sized caravan? we are thinking about the big lap. How is the AWD on the beach? The Kluger looks good, but not very tough. My old man wants a bigger boat but won’t upgrade his car to tow one”

  • Sashy on 22/06/2020 - 22:17
    +1

    Get quotes from online brokers such as Motor Scout.
    This is what I did, showed it at the dealership and they beat it slightly (it was roughly 15%). The margin depends on the model as well - I.e. a $40k RRP new car can have a cost price to the dealership of say $35.5k as an example. Also, it depends on the dealership structure. Some of them do not own the stock outright and pay finance and thus reducing the negotiable margin.

  • TheOtherLeft on 23/06/2020 - 07:39
    +1

    I've been to Mazda over the last two weekends to different dealerships looking for a new Mazda 2 for my mum. Due to EOFY, COVID shut down of their factory and everyone getting cabin fever and now being out and about, deals are non existent. Demand is up and supply is down. Overhearing some of the other salesmen getting customers to sign up they aren't reducing their prices either.

    I think it does depend on the popularity of the model you are looking and whether they have stock in Australia which would all be pre-COVID stock.

    We're going through'a car broker now.

  • RichB on 23/06/2020 - 08:04
    +7

    I wrote this years ago, it's the opposite to what most do but is based on negotiation theory, and it still holds. IMO this process is best undertaken over the phone. The reason being dealer salespeople are trained in face to face sales, pressure sales tactics, reading the customers to qualify them, persuade them and press any buttons to influence and get that sale across the line. You neuter them by doing it remotely over the phone, literally holding the power in your hand, and most importantly keeping a clear head to concentrate and focus on what they are saying and what's important to you - getting the best deal for you.

    1) First, pay your local dealer a visit to show them you are interested and so they know who you are, who they are, build some rapport, start the relationship. Show some interest, but don’t start a negotiation, just express your genuine interest for that certain model & colour, & ask for/take a business card.

    2) The rest of this process will probably take a few hours in total once you start the ball rolling, so be prepared as it can get a bit intense at times. But its success is dependent on your commitment - be committed to getting the best deal for yourself! Many average deals were the result of not demonstrating a commitment to the saleperson the buyer was genuine, or a salesperson read a customer as just price checking and gave them a near-standard list price. This commitment may even harder to convey over the phone, so in all of your conversations and remarks you need to show them you are a serious player, today. At each stage you have to show you are committed to the idea that if you get the best deal you will make a deal. But it may not be their deal. Internalise that for second. You are authentically seeking to get the best deal for yourself (and family if lucky enough), and if you get the best deal you (genuinely) would be happy to sign the contract (& note a statutory cooling off period may apply, pls check your state). If you can do that, & really demonstrate your resolve to work through this and commit to striking the best deal, the salesperson will follow your lead. The success of this process is dependent on getting salespeople on board, and if not your first few dealers in 3) below, find other dealers who will get on board.

    3) Find between 3-4 dealers in your area, maybe one or two more if you have time, but no less. My advice here is to exclude from this list the dealer you would like the final sale with, e.g. your local dealer, for reasons made clear in step 10. Now write down a list of your extras wish-list. For me it was metallic paint, tint, mats, sensors, and towbar. Yours may be different. But if you get it now, it's covered by the new car warranty, so when in doubt, add it in as part of the deal.

    4) Get a car only starting price from an ad on the net or a car broker (who will ring a dealer anyway). It doesn't matter, the initial price is irrelevant, it's just a real starting point to work from.

    5) Call the first dealer and ask them to beat that initial price. Easy. Now using your authentic resolve to get the best price, ask them to throw in one of the extras. I suggest starting with the big extras and working to little ones, but up to you. Say thank you very much, you will absolutely think about it as you are committed to getting this car, and you'll get back to them today. You get the picture. Show the commitment.

    6) The fun begins. Call the next dealer, and ask them to beat the first dealer's price (including the first extra) and state that if they can beat that price and add in the next extra (from your wish-list) you'll seriously consider a deal today. Word it nicely, but keep doing that, going around and around until all your extras are accounted for, knocking down the price as you go. You can see how important it is to demonstrate your commitment to making a deal. Some where you may find a price plateau, but keep going, you might be surprised which dealers are happy to keep going. Again, be positive, be respectful, it's ok. If a Dealer arcs up/complains/gets in anyway confrontational, calmly tell them it's the other dealer's price they need to beat, you are simply the messenger here and if they can beat that price, with that extra, we could have a deal today. Feel free to say such things as "The ball is in their court" "You don't want to tell them how to do their job, but if they want a sale, well…."etc. etc. They will not be happy, but they will play ball as you've actually demonstrated you want a deal despite being a PITA.

    7) What you are doing in this process is creating a best alternative to an agreement so when, inevitably, a dealer does finally knock you back you can confidently and genuinely say to them, well actually, I've already got another deal. You choose what happens next, walk away, or tell them to try harder! Because now you have the power of a better deal (or deals) in your back pocket to decide, real offers from other dealers. How the tables turn.

    8) At some point, you may find yourself naturally in more detailed discussion with only a few dealers, having lost a few along the way. You may also find the negotiation getting noticeably tougher, perhaps it's a sticking point on a $$ figure or that last extra to include for a comprised final price for just a little bit more. That's probably a sign you are approaching the limit of this deal-gathering process. But you need to be sure they aren't sandbagging, so acknowledge their efforts, thank them for the price, their time, and tell them you will call them back. In the meantime, call another dealer and assess their response to the near-final deal. Maybe it is the best you can get or are comfortable pushing for? You decide.

    9) A quick note on deposits. Some dealers will ask for a deposit mid-negotiation or during the discussion, or simply ask for your credit card from which they will take a deposit. Absolutely under no circumstances give a deposit until the final price is agreed and contract signed! This cannot be overstated: you cannot negotiate after you've made a deposit - you will lose any power if you do. Absolutely, never, ever! leave a deposit until you have physically signed a contract you are satisfied with.

    10) Ok you have that last quote that you think is as good as it gets. Remember your local dealer you met the other day? For a few reasons it is likely your preferred place of sale & ongoing servicing is your local dealer in the local area, convenience being #1 for me, but if not rejig this overall process to suit. Now that you have a bunch of genuine deals in your back pocket, call up (phone) your local/preferred dealer and speak to the person you met and say it is out of respect you are calling, and have them recall you dropping by to discuss the car. Mention you have been speaking to other dealers and inform them of the best deal you have been offered. Be very clear now, openly ask if they can match it . This is a challenge to them and you are really putting them on the spot without any warm up of the process to get there, so be a bit tolerant of strange or unprofessional behaviours or reactions. But remember, you have genuine offers for the same car, with all the extras, so you have nothing to lose if they say no.

    11) They may try to compromise, or offer the same car for a little bit more, or same price with less extras etc. Now it's up to you how far you push this, you may not want to rock the boat any further and come to a quick deal. But for me, simply and genuinely ask them why you as a customer would pay more to get less; you have a genuine offer elsewhere for the same car & extras, for a lesser price than being offered now. You as a customer are asking them to match an existing deal, not make a worse one! Now if at this point you are comfortable with it you can say that if they can match it, then you will commit/promise to making a deal today. That may put them at some ease, but you might still need to soothe their fragile ego so remind them they are sales person and you are a customer with a deal, here to make their job easy, the ball's in their court etc. etc. Once you come to an agreement it's just a matter of obtaining, checking, agreeing to and signing the contract and making the deposit. Yes they can email the contract to you so there is zero need to drop visit the dealership until the car is ready to be picked up.

    Well that's it folks, I hope it made sense and part of it was of some help to someone.

    • griffy on 23/06/2020 - 22:31

      Great write up! Would you reckon the same applies to used cars or would it be a totally different negotiation tactic to go by?

      • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:31

        A bit different, pls see below for other used car comment.

    • Make it so on 24/06/2020 - 11:25
      +1

      Appreciate the effort, and some good pointers in there. But I have found dealers are not keen to negotiate over the phone. Also, some dealers won't beat or match someone's price without paperwork.

      I have a pretty negative take on the whole process, because dealers can often get away with more than buyers:

      • Making you sign paperwork after hard negotiations and then pulling out "because the manager didn't agree".
      • In Western Australia, there is no "cooling off" period for car contracts, so I can't pull out "because my partner didn't agree"!
      • When buying my car, it was meant to have 1 year rego. I negotiated a better price, but without telling me (and I didn't notice!) they only put 6 months of rego on it. The moment you negotiate, any stated inclusions are off the table, but they won't say so.
      • A dealer can lie to your face and get away with it for things like:
        • them supposedly losing money on the deal
        • windows not blocking any UV at all (I got the manufacturer to tell me otherwise in writing, so I avoided tinting the privacy windows)
        • availability of the car/colour - as long as they deliver in 3 months, you haven't got a leg to stand on (one dealer, who we gave the business to because he wasn't doing the hard sell, proved to us that another dealer had lied about availability of the car in a particular colour by showing us all stock in WA)

      Sometimes it doesn't quite feel like a level playing field. Call me stupid, but at the end of the day, I rather give the business to a sales guy who doesn't make me feel like I am getting screwed over, than to have to deal with the countless ones who give the industry a bad name.

      • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 18:45
        +3

        I'd agree with this POV more-so than I would the advice from RichB, and that's not due to that being good advice and me shaking in my boots.

        First step I'd do is to determine their seriousness. This can be achieved by finding out your suburb (you've just told me we're not your local, so we will likely not get the business), and what your purchase time-frame is. General way of then finding out would be an Offer to Purchase emailed to you, at your desired offer (not mine, the one you said would earn your business), and/or credit card details (if you want that to happen, then let's grab a deposit and see if we can make it happen). There would also be the attempt to get in front of you, either here at the dealership or out on site at your home/work.

        Honestly, from the reverse side to RichB I can see massive holes which would create issues for anyone trying to buy a car with that method.

        I've also seen competitors use the trick of "Oh yeah, we can do that, come on in and we'll make it happen". Telling you they'll do the dirt cheap price, only then to switch it on you when you walk in. In the meantime, you've called around town with the silly price they quoted you, and everyone saying no, can't beat/match it, get their car. Once that dealership says no, then what do you do? You jump on the phone and go through it all again.

        There's easier ways to buy a car but also requires flexibility.

        Whirlpool is a great resource of car prices, however pricing differs with each state (different stamp duty), and there's no proof of prices. I recently had someone quote me a price which I know has been mentioned on WP, but we weren't prepared to do it and he wasn't prepared to move on his price. End result was no deal. But at the end of the day, the dealership has set margins to work within and a set profit level they want to achieve. If your offer won't buy your desired car from anyone, then you need to look to revisit it.

        Side note, don't attempt to physically 'gang up' on salespeople, it doesn't affect us. Don't come in with 2 of your mates and think it puts you in a better position.

        Rapport is key in making anything happen, hence I would agree with the advice that your local dealer should be the best option

        • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:23
          -2

          I appreciate you have another side to tell, but the odds are stacked. It's not a perception, it's real.

          How about you tell all the good people here about the sales training you have received to improve the effectiveness of your discussions, from qualifying every person on the floor or yard, to closing the deal and techniques you use to persuade and influence them. Go on, tell them. Do you think it's fair?

          Some don't want to talk over the phone, can you guess which ones they are? Hint, the ones who prefer face to face to I prove their chances. You won't catch this worm.

          Yes I've dealt with dealers before in another life and I sleep straighter at night knowing I've helped other normal people get a better deal and save some $$ the dealer would have otherwise pocketed. Have a great day, I have.

          • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 22:26
            +4

            @RichB:

            Go on, tell them. Do you think it's fair?

            Are there skills involved in any sales process that doesn't disclose the cost price? Of course there is. Anything that has the ability to barter, doesn't tell the customer how good or bad a deal they're getting, why would I be any different? From Harvey Norman, to a new house, to a person selling wares on the side of the road in Bali, all can be negotiated with, and none of which you'll know how much profit they make. All have the same philosophy, to make as much money as possible.

            You're more than welcome to pay RRP, as you would if you went into Coles and bought a 2L milk. You'd have the product you want, at a price that you deemed reasonable.

            Many used car, and now some used car yards, are switching to fixed price sales. Price on the window is the price, take it or leave it. You realise how many people can't accept that, even despite showing them market prices of competitor cars, and showing yours is priced to the market? It's staggering, because it's ingrained in people to negotiate, and that's fine but don't make it out like it's some bad thing. I negotiate if I know the product I'm buying is negotiable, but I don't go in their all in loathing of the job that person is doing and the fact their business model revolves around that.

            You've personally met me, however you seem to have been personally affected by me due to my profession. Guess what, you have no idea how I am or how I sell, or how we're taught to sell. You have an ingrained attitude towards my profession, which is absolutely reflective of you as a person. You seem to think your advice is the perfect advice, yet it isn't, I can assure you that you're setting up the readers to fail. As I said, I'm not shaking in my boots here of people taking up your advice. The exact opposite actually.

            Is this how you expect the conversation to go when chasing price:
            Yeah hi, just seeing if you would do XXX car for $50k with a tow bar
            Sure, we would
            Ok I'll just call you back

            Like, is that really how you leave it? Coz it's gonna go more like:
            Yeah hi, just seeing if you would do XXX car for $50k with a tow bar
            *Nice to meet you, first of have you driven the vehicle? Was is that specific vehicle you were chasing, in that colour, or would you consider a demo or something if I have it available? Not a problem, I'll first need to see if I have it in stock, are you calling from home, work or mobile? What was the contact number there? What suburb were you calling from? What was your name? Thanks for that. I'm happy to present your offer to my Manager, when is a good time for you to come down, this morning or this afternoon?

            Say hello to phone script 101.

            No salesperson who values their income will be forthcoming with the potential deal over the phone, nor is a salesperson in the position to guarantee your price will be accepted by their Manager. They're the ones who agree to the price at the end of the day, and you're not talking with them and the salesperson won't talk to the Manager without your contact details. And no Manager will freely give advice, they'll tell you to get the person in. Oh, what's that, they're calling from across town, get some commitment from them first.

            You try to game the system, it won't work for you, we've heard it all before.

            I already gave my advice, that of:

            • Get friendly with your local dealer
            • Built rapport with the salesperson
            • Determine exactly what it is you want to buy. From model/variant, to colour, to accessories. Find out availability from the dealer
            • Check Whirlpool for rough price estimates, Carsales for demo/near new car prices to determine the cut-off where your price gets into used car pricing
            • Know the market. Is that car sought after, or sitting around on the lot. Is there a new model due out soon. Is there a wait time. All that affects your negotiating ability
            • Don't trade your car unless absolutely necessary.
            • Hit the dealer with an offer. In writing, with conviction.
            • If dealer counters, great you're in the ballpark. If dealer doesn't start negotiation, then you just started too low. Their reaction determines whether you hold your guns, try a different dealer, increase your offer (and budget), or look to cars within your actual budget
            • If they let you leave, and don't counter offer on subsequent calls (and actually don't bother trying to call you much afterwards), you were too low and they've written you off.
            • If a deal was struck, get 2 finance quotes, 1 from the dealer and another from your bank/financier etc. Tell the dealer if you were quoted a lower rate by your bank and see if there's anything they can do.

            Have a great day, I have.

            Why thankyou, so have I, just a long one @ 13hrs. But helped people get into their car of their dreams, and organised the deliveries of a whole bunch more who are happy with their cars, the dealership, and my service. And the deals they struck.

            • RichB on 25/06/2020 - 12:46
              -1

              @spackbace: Sorry just got around to reading this. I don't dislike your job or you, I am indifferent to your existence, you and your ilk are a necessary cog in an unnecessary machine. Because I agree, cars in whatever form, will move to fixed price, and move online. And bless your hearts, your roles will finally be eliminated when that change comes.

              I don't know your history as you don't know mine, but I have seen enough to know a shill when I meet one. And you are one. If people can't see through your blatantly deceitful 'advice' not to try negotiating then they are doomed.

              Have a great day.

              • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 25/06/2020 - 12:50
                +1

                @RichB:

                not to try negotiating

                You obviously didn't read what I wrote, so why reply?

    • davidem on 24/06/2020 - 16:22

      👏👏👏 Thank you for such a great guide

      • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:17

        Np, I hope it helps one person!

    • sydneybargainer on 24/06/2020 - 16:39

      Do you provide car negotiation service? this is gold.
      $250 for every successful negotiation!!

      • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:28

        Ha,not a bad idea. But success is relative and would be hard to demonstrate unless it was above and beyond a target $. Fixed fee would incentivise laziness and cosy relationships (possibly collusion) with dealers; no thanks.

        • sydneybargainer on 25/06/2020 - 08:09
          +1

          I get it. It was more on lighter note. :)
          Thanks for input. I have book marked it.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/06/2020 - 08:15

    After just having purchased a new vechile for a business check stock levels. Due to Corona there might only be a limited number available with the features you want. Dealers are also pushing finance which can be as low as 2-3% if you were considering that as an option. But overall not that much movement on price.

  • TheOtherLeft on 23/06/2020 - 08:40

    Toyota prices about to rise:

    https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-prices-to-rise-hybrids-…

  • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 23/06/2020 - 11:27

    Current Prado is selling out like crazy, we're lucky to have stock. Update due to arrive October 1 (August build)

    Run-out periods, when not overlapping the new car, are the worst time to think you're gonna get a discount. You won't, you'll be lucky to get your colour choice.

    • Sawa on 24/06/2020 - 21:30

      Would you say $62500 for a GXL is a good price?

      • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 22:06
        +1

        Absolutely, however we pay different stamp duty over here (about $1400 more).

        I also can't supply that car, so if I had one, I have no need to discount the crap out of it!

        • ale2929 on 20/07/2020 - 00:07

          I want to order this October version prado vx whats a good price to offer do you think?

          • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 20/07/2020 - 00:47
            +1

            @ale2929: Well since we don't know the pricing of it, RRP lol

            • Euphemistic on 20/07/2020 - 05:57

              @spackbace: Nah RRP+10% to show the dealer you are serious and to ensure Boone else gets the vehicle.

            • ale2929 on 20/07/2020 - 09:40

              @spackbace: lol thanks, my theory was… add on a bit extra based on prices people got this year…. i see allot of 70/71/72/73… so lets say… 77.? lol

              I am worried to pay 82,the rrp in October. then in December it goes down to low seventies or less.. then got a year old vehicle already..

              • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 20/07/2020 - 09:46
                +1

                @ale2929: There's no bonus money on it or anything, so we have no idea what discounted price we can afford to do. It certainly won't go on special from Toyota but dunno what price could be done when it comes out.

                That said, pre-orders and early orders will be strong so you might not get 1 in the first month or 2 anyway…

                • ale2929 on 20/07/2020 - 09:57

                  @spackbace: wow really, are allot of people pre ordering already?

                  • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 20/07/2020 - 10:13

                    @ale2929: Between fleet and retail, yes

    • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2021 - 03:19

      What do say about minimum10% discount on new cars these days on Toyota or Mazda on SUVs over 50k? Is that a thing?

  • ufwpd on 23/06/2020 - 16:05

    Brand new European car:

    Towards the pointy end of negotiations at the dealership, the salesperson stepped aside to speak to the dealership principal to see if they could offer the price I was pushing for.

    During this time, I stepped outside, and called their sister dealership who agreed to the price I wanted. I went back inside, the salesperson said they could not offer the price I'd asked for. I told them about my phone conversation, and they suddenly agreed to the price.

    Got about 25% off, but that included mats and tinting which you really should get for free anyway if you know how to negotiate.

    Saved me from having to drive around to multiple dealerships, etc.

    • Make it so on 23/06/2020 - 22:24

      Would you mind to mention what brand this was?

    • neovin on 25/06/2020 - 12:52

      Could you please PM me the brand and the name of the dealer/salesperson.

      Thank you!

  • Myone888 on 23/06/2020 - 18:00

    Hi RichB, very good, thorough nego skills. However, will it work for demo car? I am eyeing a demo Merc GLC 200 or 300 FL. My budget around $70k.

    • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:11

      Hard to say, I'd imagine to a degree but not as much. You need to be essentially negotiating/dealing with the same product so everything is comparable and if there is no deal made, you can walk away with a rock solid Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement (batna). That also means each time you go to the table to talk again you are in an even better position than before. Dealers won't you like you, but that's okay with me.
      And fwiw, I first used this on a Prado gxl 3yrs ago, with sensors, metallic paint, tint, towbar and mats, and 8k off. I've bought other family members' cars with it as well. Go for it, you have nothing to lose by trying.

  • Sawa on 24/06/2020 - 11:54

    Thanks all!

    I tried my best but Spackbace is correct is saying that Prado is quite popular and there isnt much room for movement. I am pretty sure if i was after a different car the discounts would have been great! Not buying for now, will wait

    • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 13:37

      Model update due for October 1 release, being built in August. Yes, it'll be more expensive but worth it.

      We have now sold out of GXLs

      • Hybroid on 24/06/2020 - 13:38

        Still puny 4-pot diesel engine or will there finally be better options?

        • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 13:40

          Cough

          Don't need bigger capacity when you can change turbos, induction/exhaust etc

          • Hybroid on 24/06/2020 - 13:42

            @spackbace: Oh I thought you were referring to Prado update so got hopeful…

            Modern muscle
            Take on any challenge with the ultimate combination of power and style.
            2.8 litre turbo-diesel engine delivers an impressively smooth 130kW

            /facepalm

            • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 13:49

              @Hybroid:

              Oh I thought you were referring to Prado update so got hopeful…

              I was, but can't say on a public forum what isn't public info yet.

              /facepalm

              So what, new Hilux/Fortuner 2.8T is 150kW/500Nm, while a Ford Everest 2.0TT has 157kW (@ 3750rpm)/500Nm (@ 1750-2000rpm) and the 3.2T has 143kW (@ 3000rpm)/470Nm (@ 1750-2500rpm). In these cars it's more about the torque curve and where and when it hits. Current 2.8T on the Prado is 130kW (@ 3400rpm)/450Nm (@ 1600-2400rpm)

              I mean cmon, a 250rpm torque power-band for the 2.0TT is pitiful, that's just to nicely advertise a good peak torque figure. At least the 3.2T has a similar peak torque duration to our current 2.8T

              • Hybroid on 24/06/2020 - 13:58

                @spackbace: I think they're all crap. Understand the torque is decent for those that need it, but general driving power is poor. Have driven the Prado 2.8 quite a bit and it's quite sluggish compared to the previous gen 4L V6. Also clear comparison between the two variants within offroading club.

          • RichB on 24/06/2020 - 21:15

            @spackbace: Strange you say that as you of all people would know anything like that will invalidate the warranty.

            • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 24/06/2020 - 22:29

              @RichB: Sigh You missed the point.

              The newer engines get different turbos etc to deliver more power and torque. All factory. No need to increase engine displacement.

              • RichB on 25/06/2020 - 07:47

                @spackbace: Thanks mate, I have one. There are numerous aftermarket options for all facets of performance which I thought you were referring to. Disregard!

        • davidem on 24/06/2020 - 16:28

          Another consideration is the towing capability. Unfortunately, I fell for that trap by a dealer not being totally honest, combined with my gullibility. My bad.

  • ilsan0 on 20/07/2020 - 09:48

    The last 3 cars I bought have been over the phone. I tell them this is my target price and I will pay deposit on the spot if I can secure it.
    IMO, its easier to bargain and throw figures on the phone as opposed to in person.

    Unfortunately, Covid has caused a massive uptake in new sales that means less bargaining power.

  • Sawa on 20/07/2020 - 10:11

    I booked a Prado GXL for $64k before EOFY though i feel this EOFY is a sham and you can get the same deals right now. Now just waiting for 2 months for the car to arrive.

    • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 20/07/2020 - 10:14

      Oof, new one has an expected price rise, so if they hold the $64k for the new one then you got a good deal. Likely though that the terms state they can pass the price rise onto you

      • Sawa on 20/07/2020 - 11:05

        No its for the current specs not the new one but includes the leather upgrade.

        • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 20/07/2020 - 11:29

          Can't be 2 months then, last production run of those is July, with an ETA of late August.

          • Sawa on 20/07/2020 - 12:04

            @spackbace: I meant 2 months from end of june thats when i booked it. The sales guy told me it could be 3 months but will try for 2 months. Considering the lockdown in Victoria I am not in a hurry too

  • Bignudge on 11/08/2020 - 13:54

    I think this would work…hopefully.

    You come in on the last sunday of the month and you say you are ready to purchase right now. You also say that there are X amount of 'same branded' car dealers that you have called around the state. Whoever can give the best price, you will purchase it there.

    Have it abit like an auction of who can sell you the cheapest car :P

    • Employeespackbace @ Toyota Australia on 11/08/2020 - 21:22

      No…

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