Neighbours Complaining about Piano Playing

LBugs Bunny on 15/06/2020 - 09:25
Last edited 15/06/2020 - 09:26

Long story short:

Friend of mine is a musician and rents in an apartment building. A month ago upstairs neighbour knocks on his door asking him to stop playing piano in the middle of the day as it disturbs them. He apologises and explains that it's his work, offering to make a set time in the day to arrange play music (e.g. 1:00-2:00pm), the neighbour says not to worry about it and walks off. He receives email from agent about the complaint, and responds that he is willing to be flexible and arrange a set time to do his music. Doesn't receive response from agent.
A few days ago he's recording music at home at around 2:00pm, the same neighbour comes banging on the door complaining.
He then receives a formal complaint from agent saying he's heard that he's breached social distancing restrictions by having visitors (neighbours called police 2 times in the past couple of months, both times police confirmed that he was keeping to the restrictions) and that he's being too loud with his piano playing, and he will terminate the lease if this doesn't stop.
Spoke to fair trading who suggested they work it out between themselves before escalating it.

TLDR: Neighbour complaining about piano playing during daytime (work) hours.

My questions are:
Is the agent within his right to threaten termination of the lease for playing piano during normal working hours?
Is my friend wrong for playing piano in an apartment during the day?
What can he do about the false accusation of breaching social distancing laws?
Should he look to move somewhere else, or just stuff it and continue playing piano, hoping they are not within their rights to kick him out?

Poll Options

  • 109
    Tenant is wrong for playing piano
  • 712
    Agent and neighbour are being unreasonable
  • 24
    Just move out because it's not worth the hassle
Home & Garden

Comments

  • Morphio25 on 16/06/2020 - 21:50
    +1

    I think this is a case of everyone sucks here. OP's friend should be more considerate of his neighbours given that he lives in an apartment building in far closer proximity to his neighbours than he would if he was living in a standalone house AND there are things he can do to mitigate the noise.

    The neighbour is an AH for making false reports that the OP's friend is breaching social distancing regulations.

    The RE agent is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Whether the OP's friend is allowed to play their piano all day without breaching regulations or not the RE Agent is still obligated to follow up on any complaints made about tenants they are leasing to.

    I'm unsure what the laws are but assuming the RE Agent is one of the bigger agency firms then one would assume they are playing within the rules though this isn't always the case.

    Advice to OP's friend would be to double check the tenancy agreement he has and the general noise laws for the relevant state.

    EDIT: OP is is Sydney so one would assume his friend probably is.

    Noise Laws for Sydney - https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/questions/times-residenti…

    So looks like they can play their piano between 8am and 10pm Sunday to Thursday and 8am and Midnight Friday and Saturday.

  • ktek on 16/06/2020 - 23:33

    Boils down to four options to be honest:

    Option 1 - Ignore complaints, annoy neighbors/agent and have horrible relations with them. Would not advise this IMO, may cause more trouble down the road even if the law is on your side.

    Option 2 - Get the room soundproofed to the brim, there's tonnes of ways to do this, from DIY to studio grade. I'm sure if your friend is in the business he would know what works best and what they can afford. Then pray that it is enough to stop annoying everyone around them, otherwise…

    Option 3 - Replace it with a quality keyboard and use headphones, there's plenty of aspiring musicians out there that live in similar situations and are much more considerate with their instruments of choice. Not everyone needs a piano, especially in an apartment no less.

    Option 4 - Move out! There's so many options now, maybe move into a house so they don't have to worry about neighbors?

  • MindGrenadius on 17/06/2020 - 07:57
    +1

    Technically not in the wrong but doesn't really matter for the situation. It's going to give him problems for as long as he plays in that building regardless of what the laws are.

    I've been in the same boat and I just got a digital piano and play through headphones. The built-in sounds in them are a bit trash IMO but VST's and virtual instruments are really quite good these days. If he has a laptop it's quite simple to make it happen, and that way he can play whenever he wants.

    It could be worse, he could play drums. I ended up just giving up for 10 years because we were in close living situations like that.

    • akashra on 17/06/2020 - 10:38

      I bought a Roland digital piano a few years ago but what had put me off for a long time was the feel - digital pianos for a long time felt nothing like the key action of a real piano. PHA-4 keys are really incredible though, they're not the whole way there but they're damn close.

      That said though, if the guy is playing a Yamaha I feel for the neighbor :D

      • Hangryuman on 17/06/2020 - 16:35

        Roland was my favourite electric piano keyboard action like 35 years ago - you could vibrato or bend the note by wriggling your finger on the held-down key

        not sure if PHA-4 means Roland…google..OK - https://www.roland.com/global/products/dp90se/

        with 'ivory feel' ! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfbvYSmsv9g

        nice ! - I almost want one - but gave up piano when I was a kid - and prefer guitar now …

        I play a Yamaha acoustic - enjoyed riding a Yamaha RD350 motorbike (NSW cops have a sweet ride) - and have toured the Yamaha grand piano factory and head office store in Hamamatsu Japan - so I have no complaints about Yamaha …

  • Livert on 17/06/2020 - 08:55
    +1

    Get a silent piano. Yamaha have a great range.

  • mightyfes on 17/06/2020 - 09:56
    -1

    Get a keyboard and headphones so it's not annoying for everyone else. It seems unreasonable but that is the luxury you have to give up when you live amongst 97812 other people in close proximity.

  • pformag on 17/06/2020 - 10:11
    -1

    2 options.

    1. Make the room soundproof. This would be my 1st option. Should easy enough, the cost will be lower if you DIY.

    2. Use an Electronic Piano ie Nord, and headphones.

  • akashra on 17/06/2020 - 10:35
    +1

    Boo hoo. If he wants quiet during the day, move to the countryside.

    • funnysht on 18/06/2020 - 09:20

      what if he's a shift worker trying to get some sleep during the day for his busy night shift?

  • wannagrababargain on 17/06/2020 - 11:19

    Parts of this story don't really stack up. I think you've misunderstood your friend in translating this story or parts of it are missing.

    Why would the agent of your friend go from 0 to threaten eviction? There has to be at least a couple of notices of a breach of duty to the tenant before the 'eviction' word is even mentioned. What duty has the tenant breached under their lease agreement? What reason, in line with the tenancies act, is the agent giving for eviction? Why is your friends landlord/agent even getting involved in your friends neighbourly dispute?

    Social distancing laws not a tenancy issue and are dealt with by the police. The police already confirmed there was nothing illegal so case closed.

    TL;DR: You can't get kicked out of a rental for 'making noise.' If that was the case my entire apartment block would be empty.

    • Hangryuman on 17/06/2020 - 16:26
      -1

      "You can't get kicked out of a rental for 'making noise.'"

      wrong - we regularly get tenants evicted for breach of strata bylaw 1 Noise which is part of their NSW tenancy agreement - breach of bylaw = breach of tenancy agreement

      we simply ask the agent to terminate the tenancy for breach of their agreement - and it happens.

      if no-one complains or takes effective action, problems can continue for a long time.

      if one person takes effective action, problems can get solved quickly and efficiently

  • jono1971 on 17/06/2020 - 11:21
    +4

    If it’s such an issue then trading the acoustic piano for an electronic keyboard with headphones is the most sensible option!

  • Lockieasy on 17/06/2020 - 11:21
    +4

    Well the piano is obviously affecting the neighbour's enjoyment of the property (loud noise during the day isn't acceptable if it's a constant occurrence).

    Your friend either needs to not play the piano or go the headphones/soundproofing route.

  • ozaym on 17/06/2020 - 11:42

    As a landlord I would be concerned if the agent and the neighbour is putting my rental income in jeopardy, the agent is supposed to be acting on behalf of the landlord, not the building manager or the neighbour.

    I would asked the agent to show proof of the landlord authority to terminate the contract.

    If I am the landlord, I would tell the neighbour to f#$@# off.

  • FromAtoZ on 17/06/2020 - 13:34

    I lived in apartments before, and i usually found that, only neighbours living next door, and one floor directly under yours, may be affected by the noise. BUT not the one above.

    Although most of people said the neighbours being unreasonable, we have yet to hear the other side of the story.

    Is it possible that your friend also smokes in the balcony/window and let the smell/smoke got into their unit?

    Get feedbacks from next door neighbours to counter the complaints.

    btw - i would personally be super annoyed if the musician next door plays horrible music …

  • Cave Fire on 17/06/2020 - 14:32
    +3

    So your friend is also recording, volume usually needs to be up when this happens. Buying a high quality digital piano and wireless headphones would be cheaper/easier than moving etc. You would adapt to the minor difference in feel over time.

    • Bugs Bunny on 18/06/2020 - 11:33

      He doesn't record at home, my mistake - he goes to a studio to do that. He composes and practices at home.

  • sena86 on 17/06/2020 - 15:24

    Why is the agent of your property acting on behalf of the neighbour?

    • Bugs Bunny on 18/06/2020 - 11:35

      It's a newish block that is owned by one landlord and leased by one agency.
      There is still an empty apartment or two sitting there, so I doubt they'd evict so quickly - which is what I told my friend. Although I guess when you're the one who gets the threat, you get a bit more anxious.

      • sena86 on 18/06/2020 - 12:24

        Oh that explains it and sucks for you at the same time :(

  • [Deactivated] on 17/06/2020 - 17:47
    +5

    Loud sounds are very similar to cooking some fish or stinky foods. You may like it but it is entering the common area and other peoples' houses and disturbing their peace. Who knows, someone else maybe working online too, or having a kid. Whatever it is, if you can manage to have the output directed to your headphone by some means then you should do that instead. I think it is wrong personally to make loud sounds on a regular basis.

  • Zylam Marex on 17/06/2020 - 19:50
    +2

    Nope, should be considerate of others. If your friends life requires playing a loud instrument for work then they should have taken that into consideration when finding a place to live. If they didn't have any other option for living then they should invest in a setup they let's them use a headphone.

    You can't expect your neighbors to put up with noise you make everyday, might sound greedy but they signed up to a peaceful living and are paying the rent, they are entitled to peace and quiet just as much as you are.

  • dellbon on 18/06/2020 - 05:12

    People choose to live in the near equivalent of a high-rise prison then complain about noise?

    Here's an idea - stop living on top of each-other. Dense cities = constant noise. If it's not him playing piano
    it will be the kids outside playing basketball or the neighbour in the apartment above you who vacuums their apartment everyday. From muchj personal experience there's always something for morons to complain about in these living arrangements.

    • Hangryuman on 18/06/2020 - 09:43

      'stop living on top of each-other. Dense cities = constant noise. If it's not him playing piano
      it will be the kids outside playing basketball or the neighbour in the apartment above you who vacuums their apartment everyday. From muchj personal experience there's always something for morons to complain about in these living arrangements'

      I grew up visiting friend's farms - yes it could be dead quiet - which would be shattered by the outrageous noise of chainsaws next door as neighbour farmer Joe 1km away decided to cut some trees

      or local yokel in his hotted-up ute with straight-thru exhaust would speed by the front gate 100m from the farmhouse - and you could also hear them coming from 1 km away and 1 km into the distance – as you also could every other vehicle on the country road - would shatter the silence

      as an acoustic musician and strata committee member I have noted - during the active day in the city average ambient can be 70db - and a street-sweeper truck at 80db is only offensive for 30 seconds

      at night with ambient 30db - people talking at 38db can disturb one's sleep

      so it's all relative - your freedom ends at the tip of my nose - your fun might disturb my peace - my pleasure might be your nuisance, etc.

  • AlanHB on 18/06/2020 - 08:03

    As a side note, I feel that it's really impractical to do professional recording on an acoustic instrument in an apartment.

    If the neighbour can hear the piano, the microphone recording the piano (if it is a condenser, which isn't should be for a professional piano recording) should also be picking up sounds from other apartments on the recording and cars on the street (depending on the level).

    This kinda comes back to the "use a digital piano/synth" point that others have raised.

  • formatc on 18/06/2020 - 09:52
    -1

    clicked wrong button to vote. but neighbour should shut up as long as you oay rent in full

  • funnysht on 18/06/2020 - 11:36
    +1

    Your friend is basiclly doing work at home. It'a like someone else mentioned a carpenter setting up a wood work shop next door and expecting you to put up with it.

  • crentist on 18/06/2020 - 12:36

    Neighbours underneath might be affected more by vibration than volume. Carpet or similar under the piano might do great.

    First week I moved into a new apartment I had a furious neighbour banging on my door about furniture moving around (we were having dinner). I thought I might have issues with this crazy neighbour forever, but after putting some foam pads on the chair legs they became quite friendly.

    Previous tenant in my place used to have big parties with loud music, no trouble there either. It was just the clacking through the floors that was absolutely maddening

  • doncarajo on 18/06/2020 - 12:49

    Is it an electronic piano? Can you use headphones?

  • mr_fjackson on 18/06/2020 - 13:51

    The only person you have to worry about is the owner of the unit, if your paying your rent and looking after the place. It's very unlikely your going to get kicked out unless the next door neighbour is the owner lol

  • Patchy01 on 18/06/2020 - 18:37

    Tell your friend to learn drums. Give the neighbour something to complain about.

    • neil aus on 22/06/2020 - 19:13

      Or another piano, playing only when the other piano is playing

  • yannyrjl on 19/06/2020 - 00:28

    two words "OK KAREN"

  • [Deactivated] on 19/06/2020 - 17:10

    Is the agent within his right to threaten termination of the lease for playing piano during normal working hours?

    oddly specific, but this is generally dependent on what company owns the complex. it's probably worth asking them to look into the contract again and see before they do anything.

    Is my friend wrong for playing piano in an apartment during the day?

    Morally? Yes. The neighbour is well within their rights to raise a noise complaint. It's probably worth asking them to invest in a digital piano, essentially it would be even better if they're recording. After all, it is a shared complex so courtesy should be expected.

    What can he do about the false accusation of breaching social distancing laws?

    Not much really, other than develop some evidence that none of that has happened.

    Should he look to move somewhere else, or just stuff it and continue playing piano, hoping they are not within their rights to kick him out?

    I don't think it is necessary to get up to that point. But your "friend" should be a little more understanding of others. As mentioned before, invest in a digital piano which is very similar if not the same in terms of functionality to a regular piano.

  • Xizor on 22/06/2020 - 20:59

    Having been in a similar position at my old apartment but it was the building next door i can relate to how annoying it can be. But offering to keep within a set time of day i think is very reasonable.

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